ex didn't show up to get them and that's weird

[momtara]

things had been quiet with ex lately, largely because of no big triggers (certain decisions etc will trigger him). he emailed early this week that he'd get the kids at noon for his weekend. still nothing unusual. this morning we waited. and waited. usually he texts if he's 10 min late. i texted him, then called etc. he lives w/parents and i called their house. no answer. called their cell phones. they were off.

called his sibling in a diff state. sibling said he'd check it out.

then sibling texts me, "this is something that will have to be worked out between you and [ex]."

luckily i didn't have any plans this weekend. i texted ex that we are heading out for the day and i assume he's not coming for the weekend.

if he is a mental mess at this point i don't want him showing up. but all seemed fine this week. but he didn't call the kids last night or the night before and he almost always calls each night.

he is high functioning but goes wacky when triggered. but he has never stopped communicating and never failed to show up. the kids are a bit stir crazy cause we waited for him (they are little). we are about to head out on errands.

i may inform our pc. i don't want to impose sanctions becuase if he felt mentally unhealthy i'd rather him just deal with himself. it's TOTALLY FINE for him not to show up, but i am wondering if he got arrested (unlikely) or is in a mental hosp. why not just send a text saying he can't come? he always texts.

this is weird. i do know that sometimes too much calm sometimes can eventually trigger a BPD person. he has other mental health issues too.

wish i had a way to go check out the house (they are an hour away) or see if he's in a mental hospital or what. anything i should do? or just go about my life and hope they're not all hiding something?

[momtara]

I wrote that around three hours after he was supposed to come.  Anyway, an hour later, he started texting me claiming he had come and I never answered the door. Uh huh. He then asked if I would "hand them over" to him now. Huh? He was more than 4 hours late. I said I was out for the day. He then said he was at the house waiting for me so he could get the kids. I said I'd be happy to meet him at the police station for the exchange. He said it was too far for him to go (yeah, 12 blocks).

I said he could call our PC to work it out. He texted that he's going to fire her.

So I called our PC. Turned out that maybe calling her was a mistake. She said she couldn't assess how he was, but that I should offer him a time to meet him at home. He said the police stuff would just make him anxious. She said if he was acting irrational etc, I could refuse to hand them over and call 911.

So he got what he wanted. He had to wait until I was done with errands and I got back home. But I said he coudl take them. Worse, my daughter was crying that she didn't want to go. But I let the kids go with him. He didn't seem out of control and he didn't say anything threatening.

He said his parents weren't home this weekend (probably what triggered him and why he couldn't bring himself to show up on time). I will call and check on them and so far he has never hurt them physically but it is (as always) frustrating that I have to just keep putting up with this nonsense and it's not good emotionally for the kids either. And it's a sign he may be off his meds. We were all thrown off and worn out by his antics today. The kids are little and don't understand why I say daddy's coming and pack their bags and he shows up five hours later. And engaging with him via text and trying to figure out what to do, and then paying this PC... .

If she hadnt' called me back, I guess I would have stuck with my police station request and he wouldn't have taken them. I think she was concerned that would rachet things up, but I thought it would have set a boundary. Also would prevent him from claiming i withheld them.

I want a new pc and we'll likely end up in court over it, and i want her to be able to talk to his therapists. I guess I can also set a boundary that if he is an hour late, he loses the weekend, period. I don't want to impose a financial sanction (like he pays for a sitter if he's late) because if he's sick or doesn't want to take them, I dont' want to force it. But not showing up is not ok.

Any other thoughts?

[rarsweet]

If he was at your door on time, why didn't he text back when you were first texting him? Personally I would have said he can pick them up tomorrow and stuck with the police station. I really am not a fan of exchanges not in public places. It leaves too much he said she said room. Does your phone or camera log what time it takes pics.

[momtara]

Yeah, I do have evidence that I texted him and got nothing back. I'm not worried about him claiming in court that I withheld them. Even PC didn't believe he rang the doorbell.

Anyway, believe it or not, I just drove over to his house to make sure his car was there, and the kids were out of it. He kept saying he wasn't sure if he could bring them in (he has hernia problems) that late because his parents wouldn't be awake to help get them out of the car. 

Telling him to come tomorrow and meet at the police station might have been a good idea.  So hard to know what to do in these situations. I think our PC will set some sort of boundary. That doesn't solve the mental illness problem though; he'll come up with some other thing to do.

[rarsweet]

Were his parents back in town yet when you went over?

[momtara]

Their cars were both in the driveway. I think he made the whole thing up.

So i am wondering what sanction you put on a BPD person who does this. I don't want to say if he loses visitation if he is an hour late without letting me know, because he'll see that as a window to text me 59 minutes after pickup time to say he's going to be late.

[rarsweet]

Ya I get that, that is something he would probably do. If he lives in an hour away, if he's not in the car, on his way to you, an hour before pickup he's going to be late. And he should know this. Maybe it could be if he has to give you at least an hour before hand notice if he is going to be more than a half hour late? And if he is going to be more than an hour late you have the discretion to set the exchange at the next day?  What time of day is your exchange? If you had to be to work an hour after exchange time no court would think it reasonable for you to miss work waiting for him. Its not reasonable for any reason for you to be held hostage basically waiting for him.

[ForeverDad]

When my ex was super-entitled and felt in control, she would claim I was late if I missed the minute mark of the scheduled time.  Yet I had to fight rush hour traffic congestion, road work and weather and sometimes I was late.  The local rules stated my exchange 'window' was a half hour and required notice if there was a reasonable delay.  She of course ignored that.

Now, though, son is older, I have majority and so she's not so entitled.  Now she's likely to bring son back about 25-30 minutes 'late'.  It's all about the perspective and entitledness does make a difference.

If he was hours late, it's not unreasonable to set your own reasonable conditions for exchange.  Otherwise you could be enabling him to create a pattern of him being as late as he wished with effectively no consequences except negative engagement.

Would it be unreasonable for you to say, "You were supposed to get them at noon, didn't come, didn't respond and now it's 2 pm.  We are out with activities and getting supper supplies, you can get them at 7 pm after dinner."  All I'm saying is that always letting him have them whenever he's so late but asks later, then it would probably be perceived as weakening the exchange schedule.

In this instance, once the PC was involved then you had to do what the PC said.  If you had used the example I gave above and his alternative was to call the PC to protest, it would have been hard for the PC to say that you were being unreasonable, maybe the PC would have told him to let you finish your activites, get the children later and not be late and nonresponsive next time.  Maybe.  You could at least try it.

[momtara]

"In this instance, once the PC was involved then you had to do what the PC said"

Yup.

I think rarsweet's word "discretion" is a good one. Obviously there are times traffic and other things come up, but four hours is a bit much. I should get discretion about the next exchange if he fails to give adequate notice or gives an explanation.

Foreverdad, it is a good suggestion for me to send him a sort of boundary and let him be the one to call the PC, too. I didn't know what was going on at all this time, but now I know.

Maybe from now on he has to text if he is going to be more than a half hour late, and unanticipated emergencies require explanation, or I get discretion on when the exchange is made. If his lateness costs me money, may have to be reimbursed. Hmmm, of course that will mean he waits 29 minutes to let me know next time, but I guess maybe that's better than 4 hours

[livednlearned]

Maybe have the PC recommend that if he has not texted, called, or showed up within 30 min, then visitation is postponed until the next day, same time. That way you don't have to interrupt your plans (again) to accommodate him.

In terms of court, it seems like you can completely blow off visitation and there are no consequences, unless you want there to be consequences, and then you're back to square one, having to show that there are multiple reasons why visitation or the court order needs to be changed.

My ex did the opposite thing, where he would regularly show up early   and sit outside in his car waiting.

[rarsweet]

One time ex had a flat tire. After waiting 2 hours for him to give me a set time he would be ready and getting nowhere I said" I was supposed to go Xmas shopping with a friend, I have waited 2 hours, I am taking daughter with us, I'll be available for an exchange between 4 and 6". End of discussion.  We shouldn't waste our time and the kids time being held hostage. And that's what its really like. At our mediation the other day ex was hemming and hawing about future exchange times. I offered to put a window of time in the parenting plan.  I offered a 2 hour window with a days notice of the exchange time that would work for him. The mediator said don't do that, we just set a time. The mediator told him if he can't be on time he is forfeiting his parenting time until the next scheduled exchange unless I agree to a time before that that works, like the next day or a few hours later.

[rarsweet]

If you were going to be late for work you wouldn't let your boss know 4 hours after you were supposed to be there right? Advance notice is the key. We all reasonably can anticipate being late before we are late.

[rarsweet]

" if either party, upon whom parenting time is commencing, anticipates being more than blank minutes late for a child exchange, that party shall give written advance notice of blank minutes to the other party. It is at the other parties discretion to agree to another suitable exchange time. Otherwise the late parties parenting time is forfeited until the next scheduled exchange time"

[david]

My ex is late more often than on time. Our summer schedule is week on/ week off. Pickup time is 10 am. The earliest she has ever been, in 5 years, is 10:40 and the latest was 1:45. She called 20 minutes before 1:45 to say she was running late.

SS got married last weekend. It is her son from her first marriage. Rehearsal was Friday at 4:30. Ex was the only on that missed rehearsal. She called at 6:35 to say she would be there in minutes. We were leaving and going to dinner by then. SS was not pleased but has experienced her lateness many times in the past. Ex did a lot of other weird things throughout the weekend. I was asked about it by several of the brides family members. They were pissed, annoyed, perplexed, etc. I simply said that I am used to it and accept it as it is. I don't think she will be invited to many of the new family functions.

[Waddams]

My orders stated from the get-go if your XX mins late, the swap is cancelled unless the parents mutually agree to other arrangements. 

Our ex-'s will create these dramas just for the sake of negative engagement.  JMHO, but I think it's better long term to set a boundary.  Even if the orders don't address the issue, then if he's late and plays this game, I'd advise to cancel the visit.  If he's late but makes a good faith effort to work with you (like calls and tells you he's running late), then that's different.  It's okay to work with him then.

Just don't let him use the kids to pull your strings.  and it means being willing to cancel those plans you had because you suddenly have the kids when you didn't think you would.  But the only way to get him to not engage in this crap is to not play.  if he complains about withholding visitation, just be certain of your documentation and that you are justified and acting in the best interest of the kids, and otherwise tell him to take that accusation and stick it where the sun don't shine.  If he triggers and has a meltdown, fine.  He'll only prove you were right to hold the kids back because he'll act out like a jack-hole and you'll be able to document that too.

I'm really starting to come to the opinion that sooner we not only step all over the egg shells he lays out for you, but actively stomp and crush them, then the better off we'd all be in the long run.  It means dealing with difficult situations, but honestly when we have kids and can't just go NC and cut them off forever, those situations are coming at some point no matter what, and will usually only be worse when we let them drag out and happen later.

[momtara]

Thanks. Well said