Why So Many Lies?

[bjm]

Why are there so many lies?  It seems as if everything is a lie... .

Big lies and even small lies that you would not need to lie about... .

Why is this?

[ShadowIntheNight]

My experience with my ex makes me think she did it because she tried to be so many things to so many people she had no choice but to lie.

The truly sad thing about it is she did it so easily, from the little to the big, that it's hard to know now what was the truth.

[EaglesJuju]

Why are there so many lies?  It seems as if everything is a lie... .

Big lies and even small lies that you would not need to lie about... .

Why is this?

What types of things were lied about? 

[cloudten]

I don't know- but it is lies about everything... .big and small... .lies on lies on lies.  I don't know how he can keep up.

[Forestaken]

I think aspects of reality make them uncomfortable.  So, they create a better reality.

[problemsolver]

My experience with my ex makes me think she did it because she tried to be so many things to so many people she had no choice but to lie.

The truly sad thing about it is she did it so easily, from the little to the big, that it's hard to know now what was the truth.

This is so very true , from perspective my exBPD would act differently around me with certain people... Probably because she had told them something completely different and she didn't want to break character... .It's much easier for her to look inconsistent to me then it is for her to look weird and inconsistent to new friends or people she is attempting to build a bond with.

If she tells Kate I hate *John* so much blah blah blah he's a creep but yet she's texting John "can't wait to see you" then John shows up to where your ex and Kate are she has to act aloof and distant and cold at that moment at least for the moment in order to remain on good terms with Kate... .

That's just how I saw it atleast...

[Herodias]

Some of it is gaslighting... .that was a big problem in my marriage. My Husband lied just to see what he could get away with. He lied to everyone. Big and small lies. Sometimes he lied when the truth would be just as good. It makes no sense. Other than keeping us constantly confused so they can do what they want and get away with it. 

[SummerStorm]

I still have no idea what was a lie and what was the truth. 

Here are some things I either know for sure were lies or am pretty sure were lies.

1. In September, she told one of her classes that she would be going out to celebrate her birthday that night.  The next day, she called off work and said she had sprained her wrist.  The entire department and the one principal all rolled our eyes and said, "Yeah, she's hungover."  She somehow managed to get a doctor's note and even walked around for a week or so with a brace on her wrist.   

2. She tried to reschedule plans with me but wouldn't say why.  We kept the original date, but when that date rolled around, she was suddenly sick.  Interestingly enough, it took me texting her an hour before I had to leave to find out that she wouldn't be going with me.

3. In April, she had a cold sore.  Instead of just owning up to it or telling a small lie (she had a cut or something), she wore a band-aid and told everyone this elaborate story about how her rabbit had scratched her face and she probably should have gotten stitches. 

4. In May, she told a co-worker she couldn't stop by the prom to see the decorations she helped make because she had to get a root canal.  I know for a fact that her next dentist appointment wasn't until the next Tuesday. 

5. In June, she didn't turn in a form to one of the offices.  When they called, she told them she had left a note for her substitute the one day and said to turn it in.  When she told me this, she admitted that she didn't even know where the form was. 

6. She told me that she wasn't stupid enough to come to work smelling like pot.  Twice, she asked me to smell her in the morning, and when I asked why, she said it was because she woke up late and only had a chance to hop in and out of the shower.  I didn't believe her, but I knew she wouldn't tell me the truth if I confronted her about it. 

7. She texted me one night and said that her boyfriend had made a homophobic comment.  It's possible that he did, but she told me this to reel me in.  The next night, she was still supposedly angry about this, and she texted me all night from a party.  Very early the next morning, she texted me and said that her boyfriend had hit her and split open her lip.  She even sent me a picture.  The next day, I went away for the day with my dad and spent the entire day worrying about her, but she just shrugged it off and acted like it wasn't a big deal.  My mom always taught me, "If he hits you, you leave.  Period."  So, I was confused when she seemed to not want to tell me more about what had happened.  I have no doubt that her lip got cut somehow, but I don't think he had anything to do with it.  But she ended up ruining my entire day with my dad, and it was a trip that we had been planning for months.   

8. She canceled weekend plans with me.  First, she texted me in the morning and said she wasn't feeling well.  Then, she ignored me most of the day until lunch, when she said she wasn't feeling well.  Then, right before she left work, she texted me to say that she was going home instead of coming to my house.  By the end of the weekend, she was in love with her boyfriend again and no longer wanted to be with me.  This was a week after she had asked me to move in with her.  I guarantee that she left her house that morning and didn't have any intention of coming to my place.  She also ruined that day and that entire weekend.

9. And the biggest lie of all.  Over Memorial Day weekend, she pretended to be her boyfriend and pretended that he found out about our affair.  She got on her phone, texted me angry and hurtful messages, said, "This is her boyfriend," said she's pregnant.  On Memorial Day, I texted her, and she acted oblivious.  Like an idiot, I told her that I had spoken to her boyfriend, and she told me that I had gotten her into so much trouble and almost cost her everything.  Meanwhile, she had ruined my entire holiday weekend because I was so upset about everything.  A week later, she kept building the lie, texting me and telling me that her boyfriend was in a mood and not to text her anything suspicious or even text her at all for the rest of the weekend.  This is the only lie she ever admitted to, and that's because she had to.  When she tried to commit suicide, I had to communicate with her boyfriend while she was in the hospital.

[Circle]

I still have no idea what was a lie and what was the truth. 

Here are some things I either know for sure were lies or am pretty sure were lies.

1. In September, she told one of her classes that she would be going out to celebrate her birthday that night.  The next day, she called off work and said she had sprained her wrist.  The entire department and the one principal all rolled our eyes and said, "Yeah, she's hungover."  She somehow managed to get a doctor's note and even walked around for a week or so with a brace on her wrist.   

2. She tried to reschedule plans with me but wouldn't say why.  We kept the original date, but when that date rolled around, she was suddenly sick.  Interestingly enough, it took me texting her an hour before I had to leave to find out that she wouldn't be going with me.

3. In April, she had a cold sore.  Instead of just owning up to it or telling a small lie (she had a cut or something), she wore a band-aid and told everyone this elaborate story about how her rabbit had scratched her face and she probably should have gotten stitches. 

4. In May, she told a co-worker she couldn't stop by the prom to see the decorations she helped make because she had to get a root canal.  I know for a fact that her next dentist appointment wasn't until the next Tuesday. 

5. In June, she didn't turn in a form to one of the offices.  When they called, she told them she had left a note for her substitute the one day and said to turn it in.  When she told me this, she admitted that she didn't even know where the form was. 

6. She told me that she wasn't stupid enough to come to work smelling like pot.  Twice, she asked me to smell her in the morning, and when I asked why, she said it was because she woke up late and only had a chance to hop in and out of the shower.  I didn't believe her, but I knew she wouldn't tell me the truth if I confronted her about it. 

7. She texted me one night and said that her boyfriend had made a homophobic comment.  It's possible that he did, but she told me this to reel me in.  The next night, she was still supposedly angry about this, and she texted me all night from a party.  Very early the next morning, she texted me and said that her boyfriend had hit her and split open her lip.  She even sent me a picture.  The next day, I went away for the day with my dad and spent the entire day worrying about her, but she just shrugged it off and acted like it wasn't a big deal.  My mom always taught me, "If he hits you, you leave.  Period."  So, I was confused when she seemed to not want to tell me more about what had happened.  I have no doubt that her lip got cut somehow, but I don't think he had anything to do with it.  But she ended up ruining my entire day with my dad, and it was a trip that we had been planning for months.   

8. She canceled weekend plans with me.  First, she texted me in the morning and said she wasn't feeling well.  Then, she ignored me most of the day until lunch, when she said she wasn't feeling well.  Then, right before she left work, she texted me to say that she was going home instead of coming to my house.  By the end of the weekend, she was in love with her boyfriend again and no longer wanted to be with me.  This was a week after she had asked me to move in with her.  I guarantee that she left her house that morning and didn't have any intention of coming to my place.  She also ruined that day and that entire weekend.

9. And the biggest lie of all.  Over Memorial Day weekend, she pretended to be her boyfriend and pretended that he found out about our affair.  She got on her phone, texted me angry and hurtful messages, said, "This is her boyfriend," said she's pregnant.  On Memorial Day, I texted her, and she acted oblivious.  Like an idiot, I told her that I had spoken to her boyfriend, and she told me that I had gotten her into so much trouble and almost cost her everything.  Meanwhile, she had ruined my entire holiday weekend because I was so upset about everything.  A week later, she kept building the lie, texting me and telling me that her boyfriend was in a mood and not to text her anything suspicious or even text her at all for the rest of the weekend.  This is the only lie she ever admitted to, and that's because she had to.  When she tried to commit suicide, I had to communicate with her boyfriend while she was in the hospital.

I love that you nailed this person's butt to a board! She was messing with the wrong person. I think smart people are the downfall of such BPD bologna. It's the idiocy. The stuff they say and do is so flipping stupid.

[deux soeurs]

I think one of the reasons they is to keep us at arms length.  If they are lie by omission, it is so subtle it is hard to know what is truth or fiction.  It is impossible to really get to know someone that is not truthful... .and isn't that point with BPD?   They feel no now will love them if we know their true self so they keep us guessing and lying helps them create a false self.  It also, in my case keeps me unstable and unable to plan anything.  My sister on the other hand was a pathological liar, from what I hear still is, spins her tales of fiction that only she believes. 

[SummerStorm]

  I love that you nailed this person's butt to a board! She was messing with the wrong person. I think smart people are the downfall of such BPD bologna. It's the idiocy. The stuff they say and do is so flipping stupid. 

Her biggest mistake was getting me to participate in some of the lies.  It gave me insight into how easily she lies, which made me start to question everything she told me.  And I had taken her to her previous dentist appointment and heard them say, "Remember, your next appointment is Tuesday," so I knew that.   

When I think back to that wrist sprain lie, I think about how she probably realized then that she needed to step up her game.  Before, she had worked at gas stations and fast food places.  But as soon as she started student teaching, she was surrounded by people with master's degrees who work with hundreds of teenagers daily and get to know when someone is lying and when someone is telling the truth.  She was also dealing with an assistant principal who has his doctorate but who also got himself into plenty of trouble in high school and had to lie his way out of situations. The teacher she was working with called her out on the carpet the day she returned and made her get a doctor's note. 

She once said to me, "You're sweet and innocent, but you aren't stupid."  This, paired with the fact that I recently told her that I was having a hard time trusting her and telling the difference between her truths and lies is, I think, a major reason why she decided to cut me out of her life.  She can blame it on whatever she wants to blame it on, but I think that's the main reason why.  Everything was just peachy until she landed herself in the hospital and had to tell me about her biggest lie.  She got out of the hospital and barely talked to me.  If a normal person almost dies, they generally actually want to see the people who care the most about them. 

Also, I totally identify with the many posters on this board who have said that they rarely, if ever, heard their pwBPD apologize.  She said "I'm sorry" before telling me about her lie, but that was the only time. She also said it in her sleep once.  I told her about it the next morning and she said, "Yeah, well, I don't say that a lot, so keep it and use for a time when I should say it."  Meanwhile, I found myself apologizing for everything.       

[Gonzalo]

In my case, there wasn't a lot of big lies and active stories, but there was giving false enthusiasm to reel someone in. We had spent time with someone who was becoming a friend to us, and friend mentioned that she liked a restaurant. My ex- enthusiastically asked for more description of it, and said and acted like she really wanted to try it (significantly more than 'oh, that's cool'. A week or two later while we were looking for houses, I arranged things so that we could go there for dinner as a nice little surprise. She was mad about something else (that night was my first real experience with BPD rage), and when she started clearly getting more angry I mentioned that we were going to the restaurant in hopes that it would mollify her. She asked me What the heck I was even talking about, and when I said that I was confused she looked at me like I was an idiot and said that acting like that was just what you do to get close to people.

Another time I had the idea to walk to a semi-near restaurant as a relaxed Sunday evening kind of thing. She really seemed to like the idea and said it sounded very romantic and could be something special that we make 'ours'. Later on I floated plans for doing it on a day that wasn't raining, and she told me she didn't want to. When I asked her why, and mentioned that I wanted to know if she just didn't like the idea or just wasn't into it today, she got furious at me and nastily listed off a bunch of things wrong with it - the walk was too far, didn't want to go to a restaurant sweaty (it was a shorts and t-shirt place, not anything fancy), and some other stuff. She accused me of not respecting her decisions and some other stuff, and after a few days we were back on functional terms.

I think a big part of the anger on these two is that I was unintentionally catching her in a lie, and drawing attention to it. I was just trying to do normal relationship stuff, like pay attention to your partner and do nice things, and find out what your partner's preferences are so you can enjoy time together, but it ended up showing that she wasn't being honest. I think it also points back to the lack of a core identity in pwBPD, by trying to learn her preferences I was looking for an identity that wasn't there, and it scared her.

Early on in the relationship, she mentioned that she thought it was weird that I'd leave the room to talk to people on the phone. I explained that I felt like it's rude to talk loudly right next to someone (which is also why I'd leave when she'd make calls), and that sometimes I wanted to talk privately to my relatives. She didn't get mad, but said that it was extremely unusual in her experience, that all of her previous partners would converse in her presence, and that she expected that if she talked to one half of a couple the other half was listening in. About a year later, she had a conversation with one person in a couple, and got furious when she realized that he had her on speaker with the other part of the couple. When I asked her why she was surprised since she had told me that she always expects both parts of a couple to hear a call anyway, she got evasive then (of course) angry about it.

There were a number of other things like that, where she would tell me something was very normal or very unusual, but later be surprised that I remembered. By the time I noticed these I was checking out of the relationship and used them as sort of a test for my 'theory' that something just wasn't right.

[Circle]

In my case, there wasn't a lot of big lies and active stories, but there was giving false enthusiasm to reel someone in. We had spent time with someone who was becoming a friend to us, and friend mentioned that she liked a restaurant. My ex- enthusiastically asked for more description of it, and said and acted like she really wanted to try it (significantly more than 'oh, that's cool'. A week or two later while we were looking for houses, I arranged things so that we could go there for dinner as a nice little surprise. She was mad about something else (that night was my first real experience with BPD rage), and when she started clearly getting more angry I mentioned that we were going to the restaurant in hopes that it would mollify her. She asked me What the heck I was even talking about, and when I said that I was confused she looked at me like I was an idiot and said that acting like that was just what you do to get close to people.

Another time I had the idea to walk to a semi-near restaurant as a relaxed Sunday evening kind of thing. She really seemed to like the idea and said it sounded very romantic and could be something special that we make 'ours'. Later on I floated plans for doing it on a day that wasn't raining, and she told me she didn't want to. When I asked her why, and mentioned that I wanted to know if she just didn't like the idea or just wasn't into it today, she got furious at me and nastily listed off a bunch of things wrong with it - the walk was too far, didn't want to go to a restaurant sweaty (it was a shorts and t-shirt place, not anything fancy), and some other stuff. She accused me of not respecting her decisions and some other stuff, and after a few days we were back on functional terms.

I think a big part of the anger on these two is that I was unintentionally catching her in a lie, and drawing attention to it. I was just trying to do normal relationship stuff, like pay attention to your partner and do nice things, and find out what your partner's preferences are so you can enjoy time together, but it ended up showing that she wasn't being honest. I think it also points back to the lack of a core identity in pwBPD, by trying to learn her preferences I was looking for an identity that wasn't there, and it scared her.

Early on in the relationship, she mentioned that she thought it was weird that I'd leave the room to talk to people on the phone. I explained that I felt like it's rude to talk loudly right next to someone (which is also why I'd leave when she'd make calls), and that sometimes I wanted to talk privately to my relatives. She didn't get mad, but said that it was extremely unusual in her experience, that all of her previous partners would converse in her presence, and that she expected that if she talked to one half of a couple the other half was listening in. About a year later, she had a conversation with one person in a couple, and got furious when she realized that he had her on speaker with the other part of the couple. When I asked her why she was surprised since she had told me that she always expects both parts of a couple to hear a call anyway, she got evasive then (of course) angry about it.

There were a number of other things like that, where she would tell me something was very normal or very unusual, but later be surprised that I remembered. By the time I noticed these I was checking out of the relationship and used them as sort of a test for my 'theory' that something just wasn't right.

Beautiful awareness, lucidity and intelligence on your part. It also makes me realize how precious and what a journey it is to get to know one's self and honor it. Think of all the people that don't have a sense of self; and don't really even know or care what they are missing. They aren't whole by themselves and they aren't whole with someone else. If you have a strong sense of self, you are more whole being single, than someone who doesn't and is in a relationship with another person.

[Circle]

I'm a bit slow on the uptake. So, I mentally noted all of the inconsistencies for a very long time. And, I finally came to a conclusion. Yet, it probably took me 3X longer than it would have for someone else. It's not that they are bad people. It's just that they are like children (and we are the little animals whose tails they are yanking).