How do you know if it truly is BPD?

[bjm]

I have been very active in learning about and understanding BPD.  I have also shared the many events of my failed relationship with a therapist, who was the one who recommended I research BPD, as he felt this is a logical explanation of my ex's erratic behavior.

When reading the many posts and speaking with people on here, it appears that my ex displays many of the common traits many others have dealt with.

My question to all of you is, without obviously a formal diagnosis by a trained propfessional confirming my ex ahs BPD, which obviously she will never receive as she will never seek help as she does not believe she has any issues, how do you really know it is BPD, and not just me obsessing trying to formulate answers to a failed relationship in which I was treated very poorly and received no closure.

I welcome feedback. 

[rotiroti]

That's just it, we don't know for sure. All we can do is recognize traits.


I recently read "Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder" (www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901) and it exactly covers this topic.

Say the partner doesn't meet all the criteria but does have some signs? Would it make a difference in the horrible interactions?

[Lucky Jim]

without . . .  a formal diagnosis by a trained propfessional confirming my ex has BPD, which obviously she will never receive as she will never seek help as she does not believe she has any issues,

Hey bjm, You have put your finger on the Catch-22 of BPD.  It's highly unlikely that a pwBPD will seek a professional diagnosis.  It's sort of like the Supreme Court Justice who defined pornography by saying, "I know it when I see it."  Same could be said about BPD.  Check out the diagnostic criteria at NIMH.  LuckyJim

[goateeki]

Say the partner doesn't meet all the criteria but does have some signs? Would it make a difference in the horrible interactions?

This is a great point!  My ex has a diagnosis and it makes things easy for me.  But as my own T pointed out, what difference does a diagnosis make?  All that matters is the behavior we have to deal with.

[Tomzxz]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Incidentally, my ex identified most with ducks because as she said "they always look happy".

After you immerse yourself into researching BPD, you easily start to recognize the behavior patterns.  It's a little harder recognizing high functioning BPD like my duck but they are usually labeled as being difficult and stubborn people.  Their actions speak louder than their words.

I 2nd the recommendation for the book Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder.

[bjm]

without . . .  a formal diagnosis by a trained propfessional confirming my ex has BPD, which obviously she will never receive as she will never seek help as she does not believe she has any issues,

Hey bjm, You have put your finger on the Catch-22 of BPD.  It's highly unlikely that a pwBPD will seek a professional diagnosis.  It's sort of like the Supreme Court Justice who defined pornography by saying, "I know it when I see it."  Same could be said about BPD.  Check out the diagnostic criteria at NIMH.  LuckyJim

NIMH?

[Zon]

without . . .  a formal diagnosis by a trained propfessional confirming my ex has BPD, which obviously she will never receive as she will never seek help as she does not believe she has any issues,

Hey bjm, You have put your finger on the Catch-22 of BPD.  It's highly unlikely that a pwBPD will seek a professional diagnosis.  It's sort of like the Supreme Court Justice who defined pornography by saying, "I know it when I see it."  Same could be said about BPD.  Check out the diagnostic criteria at NIMH.  LuckyJim

NIMH?

Shhhhhh.  It is a secret.  

In case some of you do not get it:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._Frisby_and_the_Rats_of_NIMH

NIMH is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institute_of_Mental_Health

I asked the question of my therapist today how to tell if someone is strong enough narcissistic to qualify as having NPD or close to it.  He said there are specific traits a therapist will look for.  A big one is the inability to accept others not being part of the whole, like a limb, with the person.  He called it fragmentation and said it is most commonly seen between a parent and their children.  I asked if it if my wife's strong need to have me agree with her on various topics qualified.  The answer was yes, but he cannot state that she is or not because she is not his client.  Also, therapists will not tell the client that is what they have anyway; they work on it with the client without labeling it.  The point was that there are several traits, but I think a couple core traits to look for.  What those core traits are for BPD, I am not sure, but that may help your search.

My uNPD/BPDw is quite a challenge.  He has said certain behaviors, when I mention them, are narcissistic or borderline from time to time.  Using that as a gauge, my wife is better friends with NPD than BPD.  High functioning too.  According to my mother (a therapist), my wife definitely has NPD, but it is nice to get unbiased opinions.

[JRT]

I have struggled a bit with this as well especially since mine was not diagnosed and I am not an expert. This is against the backdrop of something that is fairly complex and is considered a spectrum disorder so its different according to the individual. But if I walked into a place, saw a person clutching their chest, not breathing, turning colors and ultimately falling to the floor, I am not going to wait for the cardiologist to conclude that the person is having a heart attack.

[Gonzalo]

I wondered about this too - my ex- hit 8/9 of the criteria (and used to hit them all) by my reckoning, but I don't have any real training in diagnosis. Then I realized that it doesn't actually matter what exactly the problem is or whether it hits formal diagnostic criteria.

From the perspective of 'should I stay in the relationship', what was important is whether or not she was behaving in a manner that I want to live with. She very much was not, so I attempted to address the behaviors that caused me problems, and found that she couldn't/wouldn't/didn't change those behaviors and in many cases denied the behavior or that it could reasonably be something more than normal friction. I simply had to call off the relationship because her behaviors were destroying me - whether it was caused by an untreated personality disorder (any of them), general mental illness, physical illness, character flaw, or alien mind control rays was irrelevant to the fact that her behaviors hurt me.

From the perspective of me recovering, she engaged in a lot of behaviors typical of pwBPD, so commiserating with people here and seeing strategies for getting over issues from the relationship is useful to me. Determining the exact cause of the damaging behaviors isn't necessary, because the thought processes and mental health strategies work, even if what she had was actually just PTSD or if she was a method actor pretending to have BPD.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Gonzalo, You put that well.  Whether diagnosed or not, the behavior is still the same.

Determining the exact cause of the damaging behaviors isn't necessary, because the thought processes and mental health strategies work, even if what she had was actually just PTSD or if she was a method actor pretending to have BPD.

about method actor!

LJ

[Gonzalo]

I'm glad someone else got the humor  But seriously, think about it - if the person you're thinking about leaving was a method actor pretending to have BPD, would their behavior be OK? If the pwBPD refusess to actively seek treatment, what is the difference between the method actor and the person with BPD in terms of how they effect your life, why would you treat one differently than the other, and what would you expect to be different between the two?

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

From the perspective of me recovering, she engaged in a lot of behaviors typical of pwBPD, so commiserating with people here and seeing strategies for getting over issues from the relationship is useful to me. Determining the exact cause of the damaging behaviors isn't necessary, because the thought processes and mental health strategies work, even if what she had was actually just PTSD or if she was a method actor pretending to have BPD.

It all boils down to what 'works' or helps us deal with our current relationships.  My uBPDw does not share the "begins in childhood" aspect of BPD... .I think losing her first husband to cancer was a biggie.  But the traits she displays are very BPD-like and some of the tools here have been helpful... .that's what counts.

[FannyB]

Say the partner doesn't meet all the criteria but does have some signs? Would it make a difference in the horrible interactions?

This is a great point!  My ex has a diagnosis and it makes things easy for me.  But as my own T pointed out, what difference does a diagnosis make?  All that matters is the behavior we have to deal with.

Goateeki

I've often wondered whether treatment that means they no longer hit 5 of the 9 diagnostic criteria for BPD actually means they become easier to live with.  Did your ex have treatment and did things improve?

[goateeki]

Say the partner doesn't meet all the criteria but does have some signs? Would it make a difference in the horrible interactions?

This is a great point!  My ex has a diagnosis and it makes things easy for me.  But as my own T pointed out, what difference does a diagnosis make?  All that matters is the behavior we have to deal with.

Goateeki

I've often wondered whether treatment that means they no longer hit 5 of the 9 diagnostic criteria for BPD actually means they become easier to live with.  Did your ex have treatment and did things improve?

This question comes at an interesting time.  She has been seeing someone who is probably not qualified to treat the disorder for over a year (I think she is still going but I have no way of being certain).  Our kids' T might also have said something to her, as she was showing up at all of the kids' therapy sessions, even those that fall on my weekends.  At the same time, her own godmother, who has become a good friend over the last 20 years, said to me that my ex has "absolutely zero self awareness" -- I didn't ask for an elaboration. It's not anything I'm concerned with. 

A few weeks ago she was bonkers. She was demanding deep detail of my "plan" for the kids for the summer. I don't have one... .some days I'm with the kids, some days my mom is with the kids, some days my sister is with the kids, and some days my girlfriend (who is about 12 years older than my ex, and a very established and responsible mother of two high achieving boys).  They are very active, doing things in the city, hiking and fishing with their cousins... .this could shape up to be the best summer they've ever had.  So when these demands came in, via text, via email, via voicemail messages (about ten total in one night -- craziness), I put down a solid and easily understood boundary: I'll provide you with emergency contact information and the kids location at an appropriate time, if it's needed.

I don't know if she's had some kind of therapy breakthrough, or started medication, or maybe the solid boundary has had an effect, but she has behaved in a more adult way than I have ever seen her behave in the 25 years that I've known her.  I don't know what accounts for it. Therapy seems one possibility.  Maybe she complained to her therapist about me and her therapist responded with something like "Why do you think you should have the name and telephone number of every adult that might spend time with your children this summer? That's unreasonable."  Despite all of her issues, she's a very impressionable person, which is a plus and a minus, as you can guess.

I want to make the point that a LOT of professionals think that this is an incurable thing.  It has permanently affected brain chemistry and the sufferer's conceptions of reality and relationships.  They can be managed by learning more productive adult behaviors, but what they feel inside is unlikely to change.  They'll always be silently judging you for not folding the towels the right way, and treating that as a sign that you don't love them or some bizarre thing like that.  Yes, she actually once said to me that if I really loved her, I'd fold the towels in precisely the fashion she prescribed.

I regret that I spent part of my life with this person.  I got two good kids out of it, but my life could have been so much happier if I'd just treated the craziness as craziness and pulled the plug.

Don't bank on therapy.  Find someone normal and live a happy life.  That's my view, anyhow.

[FannyB]

Goateeki

Thanks for the reply. I reluctantly concur with your penultimate sentence!


Cheers


Fanny

[goateeki]

Goateeki

Thanks for the reply. I reluctantly concur with your penultimate sentence!


Cheers


Fanny

This stuff is completely out of our control.  This was the hardest thing for me to get my head around.  After decades of taking care of this person, the lightbulb went on, and I realized that though she manifestly needed help, she didn't actually want it, I couldn't provide it, and there is a big wide world out there to be explored and loved.  I look back and can't believe how dark and small my life was, though at the time I couldn't see it.

[dobie]

My ex if she is BPD is high functioning my T won't diagnose she can't but she said she has low emotional IQ

My ex was extremely childish which is a hallmark of BPD , a pro victim , morose , lacks a strong core etc so even if she is not BPD she fits the behaviours which helps me to  process and understand her .

[am.h]

Good Morning All:

I am in the same situation as many of you that have posted here, no formal diagnosis but symptomatic behaviours of some kind of personality disorder. What I am wondering is, are there any other Canadians here? I think your separation/property division laws in the US might differ from mine. Any advice from fellow Canadians who really NEED to leave a relationship but financial issues are in the way would be most appreciated. Thanks all