Divorce support - inner conflict wont end.

[joeramabeme]

Hi All, First time posting on L3.

A little about me; married 10 years, no children, no real estate - just liquid assets and furnishings.  BPDw asked for divorce 6 months ago and simply stated she would like me to leave and take my belongings and we will fill out paperwork on our own.  6 months later we are still living together while processing divorce with attorneys.

In summary, she made more money than me in our marriage and helped me out financially when we first wed.  She has about 3x more money than I and claims that she need not part with any of it because she helped me out and earned the money herself. 

I am somewhat torn as on the one hand I am grateful for her support and am better off from the marriage but also feel that it is unfair that she has 3x what I do while leaving.  She has major dissociation around money and all attempts to discuss result in history revisions, blame and firm stance that "her money is hers, she earned it" and "I am now better off than before"

My own non issues are screaming at me; guilt, obligation and fear that she will never talk with me again if I make a stand.  So I emotionally  whip lashed on the one hand between - anger towards her for betrayal and her revisionism and lack of grounded perspective - to my fear, still loving her and wanting to not abandon my rights.

Can anyone help me to calm my perpetual whip lash and highs and lows and sadness and anger inner battles... .

I really hate all of this!

[maxen]

hi joeramabeme. your post really touches on my situation. i'm a FOGgy guy who just concluded a divorce from a w whose emotional expression has alot to do with money, in her case the spending of it.

here in NY, any money earned (not inherited) by either party during (not before) the marriage is marital property (i'm guessing this is true in most or all states), and a court will be concerned with statutory division of assets, and negotiations. my ex was a squanderer (among other BPDish behaviors) and when we exchanged our net worth statements i discovered that just in our individual direct-deposit work bank accounts i had 46x what she had. so the calculation would have been 46+1 divided by 2. i was terrorized because her victimhood and entitlement would propel her in negotiation, and sickened by the thought that i would lose so much for being prudent. fortunately she also had a pile of debt and i was able to swap paying off her debt for not touching my money. your ideas about fairness and hers about what she's obliged to do make it sound as if you're at the negotiation phase. what are your attorneys doing or saying?

you are still deeply engaged in the r/s and it's perfectly appropriate (in a manner of speaking) to be in the FOG. i'm two years since the catastrophe (the announcement of betrayal) and i'm still not out of it entirely. my world was torn apart, most of my social life went with her, i'd like to be in touch on some basis with a person and a family i knew for 25 years. i don't know if this is useful advice, but i separated my brain from my emotions and on more than one occasion i took a decision which i knew was right though i didn't feel it in my bones, even felt the opposite. example: i filed first but in NY you can wait 120 days before serving and i used every bit of it waiting for my emotions to catch up with my actions. and by the end of that time i still didn't want to do it, but i did it, as if i had written the pros and cons on a sheet of paper and come to a conclusion. time has confirmed the correctness of everything i did, but i felt unmoored when i was doing it. we've been completely NC for a year. i'm sure i'd feel more whole if there was some communication, but her savagery and her family's arrogance make that impossible, for me, at the moment. that's the sacrifice i've had to make, it's very, very hard but i'm in a better situation, including emotionally, as things stand.

so where do you want to be a year or two from now? what sort of r/s do you think you could have with her in future? would you feel relieved or outdone if you chose not to contest anything? what does your lawyer think about your chances of getting what you want?

[joeramabeme]

hi joeramabeme. your post really touches on my situation. i'm a FOGgy guy who just concluded a divorce from a w whose emotional expression has alot to do with money, in her case the spending of it.

here in NY, any money earned (not inherited) by either party during (not before) the marriage is marital property (i'm guessing this is true in most or all states), and a court will be concerned with statutory division of assets, and negotiations. my ex was a squanderer (among other BPDish behaviors) and when we exchanged our net worth statements i discovered that just in our individual direct-deposit work bank accounts i had 46x what she had. so the calculation would have been 46+1 divided by 2. i was terrorized because her victimhood and entitlement would propel her in negotiation, and sickened by the thought that i would lose so much for being prudent. fortunately she also had a pile of debt and i was able to swap paying off her debt for not touching my money. your ideas about fairness and hers about what she's obliged to do make it sound as if you're at the negotiation phase. what are your attorneys doing or saying?

you are still deeply engaged in the r/s and it's perfectly appropriate (in a manner of speaking) to be in the FOG. i'm two years since the catastrophe (the announcement of betrayal) and i'm still not out of it entirely. my world was torn apart, most of my social life went with her, i'd like to be in touch on some basis with a person and a family i knew for 25 years. i don't know if this is useful advice, but i separated my brain from my emotions and on more than one occasion i took a decision which i knew was right though i didn't feel it in my bones, even felt the opposite. example: i filed first but in NY you can wait 120 days before serving and i used every bit of it waiting for my emotions to catch up with my actions. and by the end of that time i still didn't want to do it, but i did it, as if i had written the pros and cons on a sheet of paper and come to a conclusion. time has confirmed the correctness of everything i did, but i felt unmoored when i was doing it. we've been completely NC for a year. i'm sure i'd feel more whole if there was some communication, but her savagery and her family's arrogance make that impossible, for me, at the moment. that's the sacrifice i've had to make, it's very, very hard but i'm in a better situation, including emotionally, as things stand.

so where do you want to be a year or two from now? what sort of r/s do you think you could have with her in future? would you feel relieved or outdone if you chose not to contest anything? what does your lawyer think about your chances of getting what you want?

Maxen, thanks for the reply.  Much of what you say resonates, particularly about separating the head and the heart, mine are in such conflict that it is maddening.  Like you, I have taken actions and waited out as much as possible to see if there was a change.  No change came and in some ways my waiting made it worst because it came across as I was being defensive rather than actively exercising my true beliefs.  It is a no-win situation.  She wanted the divorce, I wanted to work on it.  But I knew that she would attempt to make it incumbent upon me to do the work and that put her in position to say that I did these things on my own and that for her was stated evidence that I wanted the divorce. 

We are mid working with attorneys.  Pre trial date on September 1.  She claims that I am the one making this all difficult and bringing attorneys into this as she claims "I am trying to take her money from her" otherwise we could just go and get a divorce.   This plays havoc with me in an extreme way.  I still love her, care for her and do not want to hurt her but there is no reasonable ground that we can find together, no-win for me either way.

My gut feeling is that if I walked away without contesting than I would feel good short term and awful long term.  Lawyer has been pretty consistent, and I interviewed several before selecting, all said same thing; Mass. is a 50-50 state and though she has some points to make, with 10 years of marriage behind us I will still do far better holding my ground than negotiating it away.  Of course she is telling me her lawyer does not see it this way and that she will have to pay $0.  While I sense this is not true, it also plays havoc on me as lawyers are expensive and I am not financially well to do and do not want to squander what I have.

Your last question is very interesting and I would like to hear what your answer would have been 2 years ago when you were in process; where do you see yourself in 1-2 years and will you have relationship with her.  My head says; she still loves me and I know it is true.  My heart says we won't have any contact once the divorce is over, (also part of the FOG around asking for money: my mind tells me if I just walk away than she will still like me and maybe just maybe  . . .) in fact she just told me is moving out at the end of July so I am not sure that there will be anymore contact beyond then.

I don't know if I could truly be friends with her.  I love her and I am so hurt by the betrayal that I don't know if I will ever want to see her again.

I am so heavy hearted!   I just want things to be "normal".  I am not sure if this is part of being a "non" but this marriage had so much personal significance for me as I came from severely broken home and did not meet someone I could share life with until I met her at 40 years old.  Now that I am 52 I am scared to death that I will go back in a deep spiral of depression and darkness that I was in before we met.  My fear runs deep, I know she sees it.  It really hurts when I see how easy all this appears to be for her to take and process.

I really look forward to coming on this site.  Any words you can share are appreciated.

[ForeverDad]

She claims... .  She claims... .  You know it's unreasonable.  Yes, we all have a tendency to want to not gift away too much but pwBPD have it to an extreme degree.  And us Nice Guys and Nice Gals are so willing to be too fair, too nice, too whatever so that we're willing targets. :'(

How about this simple tactic?  "I agree, we can't reach a settlement, why don't we just go to the judge with all the paperwork and let the judge decide?"  You can look so innocent while offering that 'solution'.  Of course, her lawyer will not want that because then the judge would follow the law and she would risk losing a lot of money.  What this could do is shift the squirming from you to her.  It's "her" money at risk, let her squirm.  You may find that her lawyer will get her to be at least a little bit less unreasonable.  While you don't have to, and shouldn't, hold out for every last penny, at least you can get something better with less arguing.  Maybe.

Reminds me of my own divorce.  She had a very favorable temp order for custody and parenting so she was in no rush to get to the final order.  Nearly two years later she couldn't delay any more and so we got to Trial Day.  As I entered the court house (I would say "on the court house steps" if it had steps) I was told she wanted to settle.  It was a given that a settlement would have been for equal Shared Parenting, so I decided then and there, "I will be Residential Parent or else we go in an start the trial."  Oh, was she so distressed, but I stuck to my two alternatives, me as RP or a trial.  I later found out her lawyer told her she would probably lose at trial, so after some crying and begging she chose the least unfavorable outcome.  I became RP, then a few years later I became legal guardian.  Looking back, I believe becoming LG would have been much harder to accomplish if I wasn't RP.

Oh, and guess what, both my lawyer and hers said in front of her, "Residential Parent doesn't mean anything, just which school the child attends."  Lot of help my lawyer was, sabotaging my strategy!  And despite technically meaning 'nothing' the fact is it did mean something:  (1) If she had become RP I would have had to follow her wherever she moved to.  (2) The schools looked to me for primary contact, etc.  I've never regretted setting that so-simple boundary and standing by it.

[livednlearned]

Hi joeramabeme,

I am so sorry your heart is heavy. Many of us here know so well the emotions you describe, about feeling torn, not to mention the fear you have about sinking into depression.

If it is any consolation, the feelings you have now are so similar to what many member here report feeling, including me. My ex supported me the better part of two graduate degrees, and made 5x my salary during our marriage. I owe him a lot! Not to mention he agreed to have a child with me, and I love that kid to pieces. I felt so grateful in many ways, and it made me feel entitled to expect more, something I had a real problem with -- it's not who I am. The truth is that I was worth it, and so are you, whether you made a bazillion dollars or not a penny. If these relationships were about money, we would call them mergers not marriage.

What maxen said is so true. You will be in a very different head space after the first waves of divorce wash over you. So many of us self-sabotage during the negotiation, and then a year later when we're out of the FOG, we barely recognize who we were. I cannot for the life of me understand why I gave my ex the house.

During the negotiation stage, we often try to resolve our emotions with money. Divorce is about ending a contract. It's cutting up the cake and signing a bunch of papers. The other stuff, the guilt and the fear and the sadness -- those issues belong in therapy.

I like FD's suggestion. One of the things you pay a lawyer for is to hide behind them. Let your L be the heavy, and you tell your wife that you're following L's counsel, and perhaps it's best to let a judge decide, that way it's like having a referee.

Most lawyers are motivated to keep things out of court. Mine prided herself on percentages of cases she was able to mediate -- it's a selling point for her to attract new clients. If they go before a judge, they stand to lose, and no lawyer wants that. They would prefer to work things out in mediation where both clients feel like they won AND lost.

Use that as your leverage, that you're not afraid to go to court. Having leverage in a BPD divorce is critically important. What that leverage tends to be is different depending on your circumstance, but for many of us, realizing that a judge is likely to give us a better deal than our BPD stbx spouse is pretty good leverage.

[joeramabeme]

And us Nice Guys and Nice Gals are so willing to be too fair, too nice, too whatever so that we're willing targets

Such a hard concept to get in my head of being a "target".  That is a deep-deep conflict for me.  I love her but she is unknowingly really hurting me and all the while she really believes that she is being fair and having to manage me!  It is crazy making and I can't resolve the crazy making with her, but I sure did try. 

How about this simple tactic?  "I agree, we can't reach a settlement, why don't we just go to the judge with all the paperwork and let the judge decide?" 

Yes, that is exactly what I am doing.  I feel awful doing it.  One of the tools I have used to keep me on this path is to imagine her with another man 6 months from now and how I would feel if I did not pursue a settlement.  Hard for me to believe but she "split" me black a few months ago and it is like she has amnesia about our love.  Also making it difficult is that we get along and even this morning had a very nice conversation about the weather but I can tell her feelings are gone.  She just tells me I am a friend now.

She is moving at the end of July and is planning to take all the furnishings that she likes and predominantly leaving behind the unwanted stuff that I will eventually have to dispose of.  Not sure if there are any steps I should take during this process?  I want her to be fair about the dividing process but also realize that she feels more entitled to all the nice furnishings b/c she shopped for them and put in a lot of hours finding the best price etc. 

I don't want to lay down like a rug (again).  I am spiritual and pray to God to help me be the person that I will feel good about being (I am sure she is praying the same prayer) but realize that I cannot just be a nice person without getting steamrolled. 

I felt so grateful in many ways, and it made me feel entitled to expect more, something I had a real problem with -- it's not who I am. The truth is that I was worth it, and so are you, whether you made a bazillion dollars or not a penny. If these relationships were about money, we would call them mergers not marriage.

Thanks for saying that.  I really identify with "it's not who I am", it really is not and I feel a little like a scumbag and I am sure she agrees.  I have moments of identifying with "I am worth it".

I find myself shaking in the mornings.  Almost like it is a bad dream that I am not waking up from.  Friends keep telling me it will be better once we are physically separated, I hope so.

Have any of you experienced the feeling that you are the one with mental illness?  I have begun to feel like that is at least a part of what I am feeling.

Thanks all, it means so much to me to have a place where I can talk about all this and not hear "let it go and move on". 

Lately my AA sponsor has been encouraging me to date to change my psyche; WOW I have no desire to date at all!  He wants me to "get off the pity pot".  Not sure if I am having a pity pot party or just having legitimate feelings, any comments on that appreciated too.

[livednlearned]

Have any of you experienced the feeling that you are the one with mental illness?  I have begun to feel like that is at least a part of what I am feeling.

This is such a common feeling. Have you ever watched the movie Gaslighting? The husband in that movie convinces his wife that she's crazy. (Not that your wife is necessarily doing this, although the effect can be the same). A psychotherapist named Susan Forward coined the words "gaslighting" and "FOG" (fear, obligation, guilt) to describe what she refers to as emotional blackmail and manipulation (can't remember the name of the book she wrote).

People who have (or develop) weak boundaries are more susceptible to this, and the end result is feeling so beaten down and even crazy ourselves. Your friends are right -- when there is some physical distance and hopefully a good therapist, you will start to see your situation from a less distorted perspective. Many people here also have an unusually high threshold for abuse, and this distorts things too. We stay in the pot until it's not only boiling, it's bone dry because the water has evaporated. Something about us, whether it's childhood dysfunction or a series of bad adult relationships, conditions us to believe that abuse is ok (and worse, sometimes deserved).

Lately my AA sponsor has been encouraging me to date to change my psyche; WOW I have no desire to date at all!  He wants me to "get off the pity pot".  Not sure if I am having a pity pot party or just having legitimate feelings, any comments on that appreciated too.

He means well, but has probably never experienced a BPD relationship. The time to date is when you have not only healed the anguish from this relationship, but earlier traumas as well. An effective therapist can move this process ahead. Some people here do EMDR. If you have PTSD from the relationship and have suffered from depression with suicidal ideation, it's even more important to get a good therapist.

It took me two full years to recover from my BPD marriage of 10 years. It's ok if you need time, and probably healthy. The shaking in the morning, the feeling of dread -- is this a feeling you had in childhood? It could be legacy feelings of unresolved trauma. If you had a caretaker who was unstable or punitive, and didn't feel secure, I can see how your current situation would re-trigger those feelings.

[joeramabeme]

It took me two full years to recover from my BPD marriage of 10 years. It's ok if you need time, and probably healthy. The shaking in the morning, the feeling of dread -- is this a feeling you had in childhood? It could be legacy feelings of unresolved trauma. If you had a caretaker who was unstable or punitive, and didn't feel secure, I can see how your current situation would re-trigger those feelings.

Good to have a benchmark period of time so I can gauge my process, we both were in 10 year marriages.

Legacy trauma: Yes, I have this.  I did EMDR and it helped tremendously.  I suspect that there is yet more to work through.  I am not sure I will ever get through it all because there was so much of it.  But one positive note from this marriage is that she forced me into therapy and I did EMDR.  It did help me.

If you don't mind, I would like to ask about one more topic, it is related to the EMDR/Trauma.  This is the biggest hangover I am having on a global scale.  My wife and I married in our 40's, she was unable to get pregnant and so we started process of adoption.  I had a severe terror attack while on way to get child and could not complete.  This brought me to trauma therapy.  After another failed attempt and some more therapy I learned that the reason I could not complete was that I did not feel safe in the marriage and was unable to protect myself.  The thought of having a child became a projection for repeating my childhood fears and feeling unsafe. 

As I leave the marriage at 52, I realize it is unlikely I will ever have a family and now feel regret for not being able to do this and also feel that this is the real reason my wife is leaving.  This weight on my shoulders makes me feel that I am an unworthy person.  Is there anyway that I can soothe my feelings about all this.  It is another head and heart tearing me apart internal matter... .

Thank you

[livednlearned]

I had a severe terror attack while on way to get child and could not complete.  This brought me to trauma therapy.  After another failed attempt and some more therapy I learned that the reason I could not complete was that I did not feel safe in the marriage and was unable to protect myself.  The thought of having a child became a projection for repeating my childhood fears and feeling unsafe.

Your body was protecting you, trying to tell you something, and you listened.

As I leave the marriage at 52, I realize it is unlikely I will ever have a family and now feel regret for not being able to do this and also feel that this is the real reason my wife is leaving.  This weight on my shoulders makes me feel that I am an unworthy person.  Is there anyway that I can soothe my feelings about all this.  It is another head and heart tearing me apart internal matter... .

I understand, and my heart goes out to you. In my family of origin, the BPD person was my brother. I managed to have one child, but the thought of having two -- creating a sibling -- was so connected to my own sibling trauma I could not go forward with it. The sadness I feel about having only one child is profound.

I love my son and I would not change anything, including the traumatizing marriage and high-conflict divorce that came with having him. On good days, I can even see my ex as an excruciatingly difficult but important catalyst for my own healing, all the way back to my dysfunctional upbringing. My son seems to have a similar "sensitive genotype" that my ex has, and despite his many gifts, S13 will probably always struggle with depression, anxiety, and other challenges, like some sensory processing issues. I am certain that if I stayed in the marriage, S13 would be suicidal to a much more serious degree.  :'( He started talking about not wanting to live at age 8, and we left when he was 9. Middle school was devastating for him, and I thank God for a wonderful psychiatrist who is treating him for depression.

It sounds to me like there are two related but distinctly separate ways your grief is expressing itself. One is the grief that you did not have a child. The other is the grief that you are the reason why.

About the first one -- this is an individual trajectory of healing that will be different for you depending on how you learn to love yourself. I realized recently that the two people most dear to me are the same age as my parents. I effectively sought out a father figure and a mother figure and they are the most meaningful and supportive, loving people in my lives. One of them does not have a child of her own. It's as though we found each other and created a type of parent-child relationship. The other has two sons, and lost a daughter shortly after her birth. It gives me shivers when I think about how we seek to heal ourselves like this, and find others who are seeking the same thing. It may not be the same as raising your child from infancy, this does not underestimate the power of these relationships though.

About the second one -- I raised a child who has a BPD parent, and it was a terrifying experience  :'( although I admit to not knowing about BPD and lacking any of the skills taught here on the boards. I have memories of rages and psychotic episodes that are so horrifying, so awful, and so soul-crushing, and I am the adult -- they brought me to my knees and led to a horrific divorce and custody battle that devastated me financially.  For my son, they were traumatizing even more so, especially the ones directed at him, and even this many years later with years of therapy and living in a safe and stable home (albeit with a single parent), he is still struggling.

Your body (terror attack) was telling you that you were in danger. From where I stand, you protected yourself. You must know on some deep, deep level what the cost is of having a mentally ill parent.

There is something also called RAD (reactive attachment disorder) that can occur with adopted children, and it can look a lot like BPD. An adopted child with a BPD parent does not sound like a therapeutic environment to help that child cope with RAD.

I know it is hard to let go of the dream that you will ever have a child of your own. Mourn and grieve that because it's true and real for you. Take care of yourself and learn how worthy you are, so that you can share this with someone who may be looking for you    Maybe start by trusting yourself, that your body is wise and kept you safe, and is still doing that right now. For those of us who had to turn off emotions in order to help us survive, the body can be an important part of recovery, learning to access those feelings and re-nurturing ourselves as we heal hard childhood experiences.



LnL

[maxen]

I still love her, care for her and do not want to hurt her but there is no reasonable ground that we can find together, no-win for me either way.

that's hard, but it's excellent that you're aware of it. having such strong and ambivalent feelings can lead to stasis, so your guide star should be to keep your interests in view and move in that direction, even if it feels uncomfortable.

My gut feeling is that if I walked away without contesting than I would feel good short term and awful long term.

again, important insight. short term is short, long term is many years.

Lawyer has been pretty consistent, and I interviewed several before selecting, all said same thing; Mass. is a 50-50 state and though she has some points to make, with 10 years of marriage behind us I will still do far better holding my ground than negotiating it away.

that's surely right. in NY 7 years is the border for a long-term marriage, and after that it's pure equitable distribution (50-50 with a little wiggle room) unless you negotiate differently. (in a short marriage the practice here is towards "putting the parties as they were before", but that's not your situation, nor was it mine.)

Of course she is telling me her lawyer does not see it this way and that she will have to pay $0.  While I sense this is not true

it isn't. i imagine she hasn't given you her reasons for thinking it.

I don't know if I could truly be friends with her.  I love her and I am so hurt by the betrayal that I don't know if I will ever want to see her again.

this was my reaction too. the day she dropped the bomb her last words were "i hope we can be friends" - pure BPD. whatever else i was (and there's a lot to say on that  ) i had been a stand-up guy and what she did otoh was so sordid and violent, that the kernel of self-regard i have under all my layers of inferiority wouldn't permit it. she made it no more likely in the immediate aftermath when she went into a derangement of narcissism. and during the divorce too she's done things to remind me of her selfishness. i'd need acknowledgement, and that's never coming (that i can see).

for me then it was a battle between wanting to embrace something out of all of this, and answering to some fundamental level of personal dignity. i try to be forgiving but i'm not so advanced that i can do that without admission for a life-altering thing like this. little things sure, but not this.

Now that I am 52 I am scared to death that I will go back in a deep spiral of depression and darkness that I was in before we met.

that's a serious concern. what are you doing now in anticipation of that? do you have a social network, a therapist or really close friend?

[ForeverDad]

I find myself shaking in the mornings.  Almost like it is a bad dream that I am not waking up from.  Friends keep telling me it will be better once we are physically separated, I hope so.

Have any of you experienced the feeling that you are the one with mental illness?  I have begun to feel like that is at least a part of what I am feeling.

Have you watched Gaslight (1944)?  Pacific Heights (1990) is scarier for me than Psycho.

Lately my AA sponsor has been encouraging me to date to change my psyche; WOW I have no desire to date at all!  He wants me to "get off the pity pot".

He should instead be encouraging you to first go out in groups and socialize again.  You need time to recover from the relationship, recovery is a process and not an event.  You don't want to jump into another relationship "on the rebound".  Believe me, you'll too easily veer off into recounting all the things your ex did to you, or some other direction in your not-yet-balanced state.  When you start dating, you want it to be about you and the present, not you and the past.

[joeramabeme]

I know it is hard to let go of the dream that you will ever have a child of your own. Mourn and grieve that because it's true and real for you. Take care of yourself and learn how worthy you are, so that you can share this with someone who may be looking for you    Maybe start by trusting yourself, that your body is wise and kept you safe, and is still doing that right now. For those of us who had to turn off emotions in order to help us survive, the body can be an important part of recovery, learning to access those feelings and re-nurturing ourselves as we heal hard childhood experiences.



LnL

LnL, that was so beautifully said, it really moved me very deeply.  Perhaps someone is looking for me.  I need more time to process everyone's thoughtful replies but my heart instantly connected to your words, I know that you are a warm-loving soul; something that only another child could know of each other when they meet.  God bless.

[joeramabeme]

Have you watched Gaslight (1944)?  Pacific Heights (1990) is scarier for me than Psycho.

I did not see the movie but was introduced to the concept while reading Walking on Eggshells.  She was an extreme gaslighter. Funny how this worked, I always knew that I was seeing things correctly but could not trust my own perceptions well enough to stand up and claim them and even when I tried she would verbally bash me for not seeing it in the same way she did. 

I see conversation threads on various L's talking about identifying the problem with the 'non'.  One of my 'Non' issues related to gaslighting stems from having alcoholic parents that told me everything was ok when I knew it wasn't.  My father was so logical in his explanations/rationalizations that I was lost as a kid trying to reconcile my perceptions versus his words.  It was so disorienting that I spent most of my adult life not trusting my gut feelings.  Add on top of that some PTSD and my "unreliable" feelings were also ineffable.  What resulted was an internal war of logic and feelings that often left me disabled and mute, BPD bait.

Reading the Eggshells book was also kind of a surreal experience in itself.  10 years in a rocky relationship that I had been unable to figure out how to correct even with intensely focused effort and a couple of therapists.  Settling for believing I was imbalanced and perhaps a little more out of touch with perceptual reality than I realized.  Only to find a book that read like a personal diary of my last 10 years of marital problems with the exception that all the things my gut was telling me are TRUE!  WOW! 

[joeramabeme]

I still love her, care for her and do not want to hurt her but there is no reasonable ground that we can find together, no-win for me either way.

that's hard, but it's excellent that you're aware of it. having such strong and ambivalent feelings can lead to stasis, so your guide star should be to keep your interests in view and move in that direction, even if it feels uncomfortable.

So well said.  I looked up the definition of stasis: a state of stability, in which all forces are equal and opposing, therefore they cancel out each other. I will be keeping this word in my dictionary... .

Funny how I do not have to look up "guide star" to know exactly what you mean.

Of course she is telling me her lawyer does not see it this way and that she will have to pay $0.  While I sense this is not true

i imagine she hasn't given you her reasons for thinking it.

I shouldn't be laughing at this but isn't the logic that she earned the money good enough.  :-)

I don't know if I could truly be friends with her.  I love her and I am so hurt by the betrayal that I don't know if I will ever want to see her again.

for me then it was a battle between wanting to embrace something out of all of this, and answering to some fundamental level of personal dignity. i try to be forgiving but i'm not so advanced that i can do that without admission for a life-altering thing like this. little things sure, but not this.

When you say that you can do that without "admission for  . . . " are you saying that your level of self respect could not go low enough to allow her just to call you friends without her admitting to some of the blame?

For me. I am not interested in what she says about herself, I never know how true or fabricated it is.  What I would rather her do is to respond to me by showing that we mean enough to not put us through more tribulation.

Now that I am 52 I am scared to death that I will go back in a deep spiral of depression and darkness that I was in before we met.

that's a serious concern. what are you doing now in anticipation of that? do you have a social network, a therapist or really close friend?

I have more close friends than i knew before all this started to get to the ending point.  I am blessed and proudly can say I am a real and decent person with genuine concern and care for others.  I believe that is being reflected back on me as I pass through this difficult time.

[ForeverDad]

Of course she is telling me her lawyer does not see it this way and that she will have to pay $0.  While I sense this is not true

i imagine she hasn't given you her reasons for thinking it.

I shouldn't be laughing at this but isn't the logic that she earned the money good enough.  :-)

You can't trust what she claims other people have said.  Would you really expect her to tell you, "My lawyer said the law is plain that we split marital money but my lawyer does not see it this way and I will have to pay $0."  You'll never be able to trust what she says, while there may be some truth in there somewhere, it will be placed side by side with the projections, blamings, entitlement, distortions and perceptions.

Now that I am 52 I am scared to death that I will go back in a deep spiral of depression and darkness that I was in before we met.

that's a serious concern. what are you doing now in anticipation of that? do you have a social network, a therapist or really close friend?

I have more close friends than i knew before all this started to get to the ending point.  I am blessed and proudly can say I am a real and decent person with genuine concern and care for others.  I believe that is being reflected back on me as I pass through this difficult time.

Those who have been raised in a dysfunctional, invalidating home may have an especially hard time formulating conclusions and sticking with them, gaining a positive perspective and holding onto it.  It takes time and help to be able to trust yourself, your observations and your conclusions.  This is not to say you will always need a counselor, but having one to help guide you during this difficult time would be invaluable.

[Greyhound]

First - to everyone that has posted on this thread.  Thanks.  Very good collective wisdom. 

Of course she is telling me her lawyer does not see it this way and that she will have to pay $0.  While I sense this is not true

i imagine she hasn't given you her reasons for thinking it.

How true.  I am in the midst of my divorce, and having been the 'good guy' for 13 years, now I am "doing this to her."  We have three great boys and my BPDw has been bringing felons into the house, is in love with an incarcerated gang member, and has substance abuse problems. (... .I mention just to say it does't matter how obvious the situation is).  She regularly says, "my family thinks you're a horrible person."  Of course, they don't have all the facts, but you can't win the argument.  You have to let your lawyer be your advocate.  She has hers.  Let the chips fall where they will and move forward. 

I don't know if I could truly be friends with her.  I love her and I am so hurt by the betrayal that I don't know if I will ever want to see her again.

Good counsel from MAXEN. My two cents... .Channel your hurt into something positive that makes you feel good about yourself and take it one day at a time.  Don't worry about what your world looks like 10 years from now.  Not saying it hurts to have a plan, but you're in the midst of a very difficult and emotional time.  It's okay to have your ups and downs, we all do.  I'm 44 with and staring at raising three boys (6/6/5) by myself.  I feel the betrayal, distrust, hurt, sadness, anger all the time too, and I'm scared of the future (raising kids by myself, healing, meeting someone who can give and receive love the way I do, etc.).  Very normal to be conflicted, but just stay true to who you are (your values, norms, actions and words). 

In the immortal words of Daft Punk - "We've come too far to give up who we are." 

Keep posting, it's helping us all out.