looking for input/encouragement

[pumpkin79]

So I originally posted on here last August.   We were friends for a couple years as we were both involved with other people.   She cheated on her ex and had an on again off again relationship with her coworker.  February 2014 she showed up at my door during a snowstorm and made moves on me for the first time.  She had been flirting with me for several months.  I declined to hook up with her but eventually developed feelings for her and we hooked up and started dating.  We dated for several months and left on a trip for a week and when she returned she sat on my couch and said, "I love you. "  Four days later she told me she wasn't ready for a relationship,  wanted to be friends, and said she might go back to her ex who she spent months telling me was controlling, and cheated on.  She started hanging out with her ex and the coworker and if I tried to talk to her about what happened she would refused to talk and said i made her want to cut herself and told me "she no longer wanted to communicate with me."  I texted back angry texts and we

didn't speak for two months.  I wrote apologetic texts for my angry texts and she wrote back and apologized and we talked for a month. She eventually started ignoring me and I went to her house to talk to her.  We cuddled and talked.  I wrote that I enjoyed talking to her.  She wrote,  "you scared me coming to my house,  I think its best if we no longer communicate."  We didn't talk for seven months with the exception of me leaving a bday card in her mailbox.  March 2015 we ran into each other on the neighborhood jogging trail after 7 months like something out of a movie. She smiled and flinched telling me she was afraid I would punch her.  We talked and talked. She apologized and said she was a b___ to me.  She said she was not used to people being nice to her like me and it scared her. That she felt safe with her ex and co worker bc she knew what to expect.   We laid two ground rules for our "friendship."  No hooking up and she would not shut down on me.  Things were great for awhile.  She of course was hitting on me but I resisted for awhile. One night we were hanging out and spent the night together and were intimate.  In the morning she told me she wanted to be with me and that she got scared before and if she got scared again we would work it out together.   Thimgs were great for awhile. Let me add she has an eeating disorder and has been raped. One night she told me sheddidn't want to have sex bc she was having nightmares and said that was ok.  Then one day not long.after that I texted her and no response. This continued.  Eventually i asked her what was wrong.  She said, "you're a good friend.   I don't want a relationship bc I'm too busy and nobody compares to my ex."  I was crushed.   I reminded her that she said we would work it out together if she got scared. She said she wasn't scared, just busy. We stopped talking and i gave her space. Weeks passed. I texted her asking to get together to talk. She blew me off for two weeks. Finally yesterday we talked. I reminded her we would work it out bc I thought she was scared.  She was so cold telling me how busy she is and that she does not want to date me.  She wants to be friends.   I told her that she ignores me and shuts down. She said, "can't you figure out that hooking up and getting close makes her shut down?"  She told me I scare her and I'm not like anyone else she knows. Everyone else leaves her alone. Then she said,  think.what you want,  I don't want to date you or anyone else.  I'm hurt... .

[EaglesJuju]

Hi pumpkin79,

I am sorry that you are hurting. Ambivalent behavior is incredibly painful and absolutely confusing.   I have been hurt by my pwBPD's push-pull behavior and it is really tough to cope with. Before I truly understood BPD, I would constantly blame myself thinking that I did something wrong for my pwBPD to push me away and then pull me back.

The push-pull is a paradox in a sense is related to a pwBPD's lack of object constancy. A lack of object constancy is the inability for a pwBPD to perceive their partner as a whole constant object. In a maintaining relationship it is necessary to have the ability to perceive  the partner as a "whole" human being with good and bad traits. PwBPD are heavily dependent on relying on the emotion/feeling of the moment. In this sense, for a pwBPD feelings are facts.  Depending on the feeling/emotion associated with the moment, a pwBPD will view their partner as two entities, one "good" or one "bad." This is known as dissociative splitting and can shift moment to moment. The partner is never viewed as a whole person with both good and bad traits. 

When a pwBPD is feeling engulfed, they are afraid of their sense of self being swallowed up by their partner and are losing their sense of self. Being emotionally close or intimate triggers engulfment.  Many times a pwBPD will feel as if they are being "controlled" and react with anger. They will emotionally distance themselves and "push " their partner away. In contrast, when a partner is being pushed to far away. A pwBPD's abandonment fears will be triggered. Due to a lack of object constancy, a pwBPD gets intense emotions that their partner will never return or does not exist. Also, for a pwBPD it is hard to conjure the image of a partner when they are not physically present.  When the abandonment fears get triggered and a partner is "pushed" too far away, a pwBPD will "pull" the partner back to them through clinging behaviors. It is a cycle that keeps repeating itself.  It is a paradox, because a pwBPD intensely through their behaviors, but behaves in a way that pushes the partner away. 

[pumpkin79]

Thank you for your wisdom.   Do you have any advice for how not to obsess over feeling at fault or guilty even though you logically know you didn't do anything to deserve this treatment?

[EaglesJuju]

Thank you for your wisdom.   :)o you have any advice for how not to obsess over feeling at fault or guilty even though you logically know you didn't do anything to deserve this treatment?

I have gone through this myself. It is really tough.   I have felt guilty and blamed myself for my bf's behaviors.  When I think like that, I tend to let my emotions eclipse my rational thoughts. I logically/rationally know that the behavior is not a result of anything I did, but is a part of the disorder. My own emotions get in the way of that. Learning mindfulness has really helped me balance out my emotions/guilty feelings with my logic. Take a look at this link:

TOOLS: DBT for Non Borderlines- Mindfulness

Learning about BPD really does help with feelings of guilt. It took me awhile to understand that the origin of the behavior is not related to me or something that I did. Do you feel like the behavior of your person with BPD is your fault?

[pumpkin79]

Thank you for that link on mindfulness.  I'll take a look at it.  She makes me feel like its my fault because she's so cold and mean to me.  I told her I thought she was scared in some way and she looked at me and said "I don't want to date you.   You can't accept that. "  Then I told her she was shutting down on me and she said, "You should figure out that you being intimate with me makes me shut down", like its my fault.   I know logically what is going on but my emotions fight with my logic.

[Silveron]

Very good advice Eagles.  Pumpkin know that you cannot fix her.  You want to help her and see the light but BPDs are so damaged that the very few that do recover go through years of therapy.  Even if you do have a relationship with her she will put you on such irregular emotions that you will drive yourself crazy.  My wife is BPD and next month is 11 years that we are married.

One thing I can be sure of is the unsure.  You cannot count on her to meet your basic needs.  It might seem like they can, they can ramp up their personality and glow so that they seem irresistible but behind closed doors you are either a saint when you match their non-stop expectations or the pure devil when you don't.  They truly live for the moment and you will find yourself chasing her even if you do end up marrying her.

Your best option is to go no contact.  The only way to win this game is to not play it.  You are dealing with someone who can truly do you harm.  You have never experienced terror until you see a BPD in a rage.  You have to live in a relationship knowing that your partner has the emotional capacity of a teenager.  Someone who can cheat, lie and disrespect you.  Someone who can then turn right around and tell you they love you and act like the things they have done, never happened.

Good chance she was abused and the abused become the abuser.  At least you got warning of her behavior, I didn't see this from her until after marriage.  Please as one guy to another, find a woman that will truly love you.

[EaglesJuju]

She makes me feel like its my fault because she's so cold and mean to me.  I told her I thought she was scared in some way and she looked at me and said "I don't want to date you.   You can't accept that. "  Then I told her she was shutting down on me and she said, "You should figure out that you being intimate with me makes me shut down", like its my fault.   I know logically what is going on but my emotions fight with my logic.

PwBPD tend to blame their partners quite often for their own feelings and do so through projection. PwBPD tend to be hypersensitive to criticism and with their intense emotions and a lack of controlling them, many times they will react with anger. 

Something that has helped me was learning that I cannot control my pwBPD's thoughts or behaviors, I can only control my own. My pwBPD is responsible for his own behavior, and I am not going to take responsibility for his or blame myself.

[chill1986]

Very good advice Eagles.  Pumpkin know that you cannot fix her.  You want to help her and see the light but BPDs are so damaged that the very few that do recover go through years of therapy.  Even if you do have a relationship with her she will put you on such irregular emotions that you will drive yourself crazy.  My wife is BPD and next month is 11 years that we are married.

One thing I can be sure of is the unsure.  You cannot count on her to meet your basic needs.  It might seem like they can, they can ramp up their personality and glow so that they seem irresistible but behind closed doors you are either a saint when you match their non-stop expectations or the pure devil when you don't.  They truly live for the moment and you will find yourself chasing her even if you do end up marrying her.

Your best option is to go no contact.  The only way to win this game is to not play it.  You are dealing with someone who can truly do you harm.  You have never experienced terror until you see a BPD in a rage.  You have to live in a relationship knowing that your partner has the emotional capacity of a teenager.  Someone who can cheat, lie and disrespect you.  Someone who can then turn right around and tell you they love you and act like the things they have done, never happened.

Good chance she was abused and the abused become the abuser.  At least you got warning of her behavior, I didn't see this from her until after marriage.  Please as one guy to another, find a woman that will truly love you.

So true!

One excuse my ex made when dumping me was that we didn't go out enough, but I couldn't ever plan anything as I was so unsure of what mood she was in! It was nerve wracking her coming through the door.

I am doing the whole no contact thing, last message was from her albeit one word 'sure' in response to me coming over to pick up some stuff from her house (she kicked me out) and I haven't bothered, just left it. I can buy new stuff.

My ex had childhood trauma with her Mum dying and her dad remarrying and her step mum forcing her out to live with her gran. She was neglected and now is doing the same.

Ps is that the only way to win is not to play from tron?

[Silveron]

No it's from wargames.  I just hope pumpkin really takes our advice and leaves her alone.  She is pure toxic like most BPDs are.

[chill1986]

No it's from wargames.  I just hope pumpkin really takes our advice and leaves her alone.  She is pure toxic like most BPDs are.

I can sympathise though, I have found it really hard to keep my distance, but through reading all these stories good and bad, the only way to get them to come back is to move on, which is ironic as at that point you won't want them.

No contact whether you want them back or not. They made the decision to leave, it is is theirs to come back, but yours to decide whether you want it or not.

[pumpkin79]

Thank you all for the helpful advice.  I appreciate it.  I have decided to not contact her.  It's been three days and I'm ok. I just hope i can stay strong and not contact her at all.

[SummerStorm]

Hi pumpkin79,

Of all the things I went through with my former friend/lover BPD, the most emotionally damaging for me was her push-pull behavior, which I now understand was due to her lack of object constancy.  

Mine first started flirting with me over Easter break, when she was home and not with her boyfriend.  Then, she came over to my house one night and cuddled with me on my bed for several hours.  Her boyfriend called in the middle of it, she ended the call quickly, and cuddled up next to me again.  At that point, I was more "there" than her boyfriend.

She continued to flirt with me when she went away for over a week.  I have a job that allows me to check my phone throughout the day, and I'm home all night.  Her boyfriend works at night and sleeps during the day.  So, for those nine days, I was a constant in her life.  

During the week, when we saw each other every day at work and she rarely saw her boyfriend, she would ramp up her attachment to me.  If he worked over the weekend, this would continue.  If not, she would attach herself to him again.  Once, she texted me on a Sunday, called me her "soon to be girlfriend" and asked me to rent an apartment with her.  By that Wednesday, she was ignoring me at work, and by that weekend, she told me she was staying with her boyfriend.  

A few days later, she was sending me messages about how she still wanted to have sex with me, and by that Saturday, she was begging me to hurry up and buy a house like I was planning to because she wanted to live with me and eventually marry me.  Two days later, she told me I'm "the one." By the end of the week, she was barely talking to me, and she kept telling me that I was being "clingy" and "annoying."  The following week, she told me that she misses me and my kisses, and by that Saturday, she was asking to spend the night at my house again.  When I shut her down and reminded her that she had chosen her boyfriend for the third time over me, she replied, "Blah blah blah."  

Less than a week after I shut her down, she told me that she was "happy."  The next night, she raged at her boyfriend and then tried to commit suicide.  When I went to visit her in the hospital, she kept talking about how great her boyfriend is.  Then, the school year ended, we no longer saw each other every day at work, and she eventually raged at me in text message form and completely went NC.  I haven't heard from her since.

Even though it was really only six weeks or so of push-pull, it feels like it was six years.  My advice to you is to go NC, completely forget this girl exists, and go find someone else who will treat you the way you deserve to be treated.    

[pumpkin79]

Thank you for your input.  Why does she act like she could care less about me and that our relationship means/meant nothing to her. It's like she flips off her emotions like a light switch and turns into another person.

[chill1986]

Exactly the same for me mate, it hurts. She went from loving me to hating me overnight and now wants nothing to do with me.

It's the illness, not you!

[EaglesJuju]

Thank you for your input.  Why does she act like she could care less about me and that our relationship means/meant nothing to her. It's like she flips off her emotions like a light switch and turns into another person.

The core of BPD is a lack of emotional regulation. Feelings/emotions fluctuate rapidly for a pwBPD and they are reliant on momentary feelings/emotions. Relying on the ever changing emotions, a pwBPD will view their partner as two separate entities, such as rewarding/satisfying and withholding/frustrating, instead of viewing their partner as having multi-faceted traits and embodying both faults and positive attributes. PwBPD lack object constancy, the ability to view a person as a whole and complex being with both positive and negative traits.   When a pwBPD is having a negative emotions (sadness, anger, etc.), perceiving abandonment/engulfment, or having a disagreement with their partner, they view their partner as all "bad."  When a partner is viewed in this manner, a pwBPD will tend to emotionally withdrawal. The emotional investment in a partner will wane, during these shifts.  Splitting is a maladaptive coping mechanism predominately used by pwBPD to protect themselves from the feelings/emotions associated with abandonment depression. 

[pumpkin79]

Thank you EagleJuJu.  You're wise.  Thank you everyone for your advice and encouraging words.

[apollotech]

pumpkin,

Your friend is telling you the truth, her BPD truth, about why she shuts down:

"You should figure out that you being intimate with me makes me shut down"... .

The intimacy causes her engulfment. She mistakenly blames you because you are the person that she is intimate with. Her shutting down creates a gulf between y'all. As a result of said gulf, the intimacy, or opportunity for intimacy, is thwarted; hence, her engulfment issues are also thwarted as well. It is a very maladapted defense mechanism.

All of the scenario described above has absolutely nothing to do with you, what you did or didn't do, with the exception of being her intimate partner. Take you out of the equation and insert any other person as the intimate partner (emotional intimacy, not sexual intimacy) and you'd get the same result. That is her mental illness at work.

With that being said, she, herself, might not understand her very own feelings regarding this nor what's driving them. It's not maliciously directed at you personally; as stated earlier, it is a maladapted defense mechanism. Unfortunately, you just happen to be on the receiving end of it. Hope that helps.

Eagles described the same mechanic:

When a pwBPD is feeling engulfed, they are afraid of their sense of self being swallowed up by their partner and are losing their sense of self. Being emotionally close or intimate triggers engulfment.  Many times a pwBPD will feel as if they are being "controlled" and react with anger. They will emotionally distance themselves and "push " their partner away.

[pumpkin79]

Thank you Apollo Tech.  That really helps.