Do you tell your BPD spouse that you are going to see a lawyer?

[workinprogress]

Or is it best to do it in secret?

[Aussie JJ]

if your playing a poker game do you put your cards on the table before people put their money on the table... .

In answer to your question, unwinding two decades takes a lot of planning.  Some people here stayed in for another 6-12 months to plan their way out for the minimum of fuss and to make sure they had documentation ready for when all the blaming and blame shifting started.  

If you are separating, she is no longer involved in your business as you are not in hers.  I would suggest speaking to a few lawyers and sounding out who suits you best.  An assertive attorney whom is familiar with high conflict separation is a must.  

I hope Foreverdad or Matt and a few other senior members will chip in here.  Please, divorce is more about preparing yourself and protecting yourself than anything else.  If I could wind the clock back I would have followed it a lot more dillegantly.  TO put it iin perspective, I spent 8k on fighting a restraining order for it to go through with no findings on the day, its still there and gets whipped in 9 months and never to be heard of again, but that is 8 thousand dollars I could have had a holiday with, spent on my son.  So many things and I could have (in hindsight) avoided all of that by not leaving myself open to those allegations. 

Often sitting on something for 24 hours before sending it via e-mail is a recommended way forward.  Sit on this for 24 hours, get some feedback from others and then make the decision.  What is to stop her from going out (impulsively) and getting a lawyer straight away and filing before your ready in a rage. 


AJJ.  

[Sunfl0wer]

Is there any reason or way that you feel this could be of any benefit that we may not be aware of?

[workinprogress]

Is there any reason or way that you feel this could be of any benefit that we may not be aware of?

I think the benefit would be me staying alive longer.  Seriously.

I haven't had sex in 5 1/2 years.  I haven't even seen or touched breasts in 15 years.  I'm tired.  My nerves are shot.  I highly suspect my wife is seeing someone else.

I just have to get out for my own sanity.

I plan on telling her tomorrow that I can't take this anymore.  I won't tell her my plans, but I will tell her that I'm done.  I just can't do it.

I am having trouble sleeping.  I have to drive a great deal for work, and that isn't safe.

Also, I am covering a new territory that may have some reasonably priced apartments that I could move into.

Ultimately, I want to sell our house and just get out of this.  I can't do it anymore.

I have tried and tried.  I have pleaded with God.  Nothing is working!

[ForeverDad]

I highly suspect my wife is seeing someone else.

I just have to get out for my own sanity.

I plan on telling her tomorrow that I can't take this anymore.  I won't tell her my plans, but I will tell her that I'm done.  I just can't do it.

I have pleaded with God.

So why do you have to tell her?  From what you say, she's essentially rejected you, right?  Frankly, divorce is about unwinding the marriage with the least amount of damage to you.  Sharing information, even just "I'm done", is likely to be Self-Sabotaging.  You'd be giving her a heads-up.  Do you think your spouse will just say OK and go on with her day?  No, you're dealing with someone who, through no choice of your own, has made you The Adversary.

You may say, "But I have to be fair, I have to give her notice."  Well, would she reciprocate your fairness, would she give you fair notice?  Hmm?  Yeah, I thought not.

So don't sabotage yourself.  How might she help you sabotage yourself?  With your notice, she might raid the accounts.  She might charge to the limits before you can file and start officially living separate lives.  She might ramp up her efforts to alienate your children from you.  She might frame you for mischief and file horrendous allegations against you, trying to make you look worse than her.  Do you relish risking spending a weekend in jail?  Some of us have.  I barely avoided it on the first day I called the police.  The officer asked me to hand our preschooler over and 'step away'.  (Months later my divorce lawyer told me it was standard practice to cart off one of the spouses on domestic dispute calls.  How often do you think the women get carted off?)  What saved me, literally, was that my son, sobbing in my arms, shrieked and clung tighter when I tried to comply with the officer's request.  He looked at me a long moment, finally said "work it out" and they left.  Believe me, there were many nights I was terrified that the police might believe my ex and come for my in the middle of the night.

This is Serious.  Now is not the time to Play Super Fair.  That would be exposing yourself needlessly to danger.  If you want to have your Moment to tell her "I'm Going, Going, Gone!" then do it ONLY after you've prepared as well as possible, consulted and hired a lawyer, developed a solid strategy, planned counters for all the surprise obstructions you'll face.

Really, this is not "doing it in secret", this is Protecting Yourself as best you can.  It's okay, even necessary, to do it Confidentially.  (And don't let her interrogate or guilt you into talking.)

[Sunfl0wer]

I do not hear any benefit to you telling your wife your plan.  Please explain again.

What I hear is that you are frustrated in many ways for a very long time and you want and end to your suffering.  That is understandable and you deserve to feel at peace.

Consider... . Sharing this info could likely be the beginning of a very new, unimaginable type of suffering you have yet to experience.

Trust the collective years of free wisdom you read here!  It can save you  thousands upon thousands... .Or cost you thousands upon thousands.  And that is only speaking re monetary issues.  There is so much more at stake... .

... .your future

... .the path that begins the rest of your life.

Sleep on it.

Act wisely... .not out of emotion.

Speak to your lawyer first... .get his/her advice.

You can always change your mind next week to share.

You can never unring that bell!

(I have NOT myself gone through a divorce.  I was partners with a man who had recently completed his divorce.  It has been over 6 years post divorce... .she is STILL aggressively bleeding him dry.  Our r/s ended.  He is losing his daughter.  He lost two homes and is still "paying" in every way she can hold him hostage and blackmail in every way she can make up.  The courts did not protect us from using the court system as a form of harassment to leave us financially powerless.  A divorce, is a huge injury to a disordered partner, I have yet to hear anyone relate how amicably things parted.  You my dear... .would be the very miracle first!)

[Aussie JJ]

I plan on telling her tomorrow that I can't take this anymore.  I won't tell her my plans, but I will tell her that I'm done.  I just can't do it.

I am having trouble sleeping.  I have to drive a great deal for work, and that isn't safe.

Also, I am covering a new territory that may have some reasonably priced apartments that I could move into.

Ultimately, I want to sell our house and just get out of this.  I can't do it anymore.

I have tried and tried.  I have pleaded with God.  Nothing is working!

workinprogress,

Whatever you decide, sit on it.  Let it sit for 24 hours, 72 hours.  Make a time up in your head and stick to that.  

Whatever your decision we will not judge you for it, you have to do what is best for yourself.  

One thing I read is that you are in a situation at present with an extreme level of stress, stress that isn't just here and now but is built up over a long period of time.  If I had a do-over I would have sat back and given nothing away, going along with the ruse and let her be in control in her own mind.  

By telling her its over in her mind she has no control over you at that point in time.  Loosing control is none of if not the biggest fear of someone with BPD, it encompasses abandonment, being alone.  All of those emotions will come to the surface in one big ugly clusterf... .and it will be blamed on you even more than it is now.  

Please give yourself 24-48 or even 72 hours to process this and make a PLAN.  

As foreverdad says, some of us here have spent a night in jail.  I was lucky that I didn't end up in the cells for a night and only learnt later on how close I was to spending a night in jail.  

This sounds more like it is a divorce for YOUR PROTECTION.  Part of that protection is no longer having to answer to her and be involved in that chaos.  You can control when and how this proceeds.  By telling her you loose control of that and put the control in the hands of someone who has no willingness to protect you only to harm you and hurt you.  

sit back, set a timeline for making a decision, this s major and think about it for 24 hours, 48 hours or 72 hours.  Make a list positives and negatives.  Informed decisions are a wonderful thing and you can make on here that will be the start of your new life without these problems (her) in it.  Control that process and start making long term decisions.  


AJJ.  

[workinprogress]

Thanks for the advice.  Perhaps part of me believes that if I announce that I am done that she will make an effort to restore the marriage.  I know it's silly.

[Sunfl0wer]

Thanks for the advice.  Perhaps part of me believes that if I announce that I am done that she will make an effort to restore the marriage.  I know it's silly.

Hey workinprogress,

I skimmed briefly at your first post last year to get an idea where you are coming from.  It makes a lot of sense.  You have been with this woman a long time.  She was your first family after your FOO abandoned you.  You have been at this a while now here.  I can see why this is especially hard for you.

I left my FOO at a young age as well and having a disordered FOO has really caused me to deal with many things in life on different terms than others.  My partner and I did not make it work out... .I do hope the best outcome for you... .I'm just saying.  Well, when the idea of separating confronted me... .it reopened all of those old wounds.  Wounds of early neglect.  Early abandonment.  Not having a sense of "family" to identify with.  Finding new roles and a new purpose in life.  I literally imagined the world wanted to swallow me whole.  And I even hoped it would to pull me away from my anguish.

I cannot imagine your experience... .as it is yours only.

I can only share that this is a good safe place here... .as I'm sure you know.  These people are writing because they are real people that do care.

So if you are feeling overwhelmed and about to pop... .

Can you just let go of any responsibility towards this for the next 24hrs or so?  (Ideally a week but I won't push it .  )

Trust in some of the words here ... .anywhere offered in this thread... .So that you can bring yourself to a place of peace for this time.

Come back to these thoughts when you have had some moments of peace... .and feel less restless.

And see how your perspective is from that angle?

[Aussie JJ]

Mate,

Been there done that.  Not silly at all.  You're mind is trying to find a solution to a problem that is not simple.  It is complex highly emotional and highly stressful.  

I have 12 months distance since I stopped communication with my ex partner in any way shape or form that involved any emotion, foreverdad has XX years distance.  We have been their we have gone through it and as I said, no judgement.  

It is perfectly acceptable to have those feelings.  Being around someone with a disordered coping mechanism we pick up some of those coping mechanism's.  It is a by product of being in these relationships.  Some people call them spiders or flee's, whatever they are giving it time to sort through these emotions and make rational sound decisions is something we can control.  

From a distance here, your putting a threat of divorce on the table to try and get her to change.  It isn't going to have the desired effect I'm afraid.  It is asking for something emotionally in your head while saying the complete opposite factually to the person ni question, your current wife.  This is a thought process you may have picked up from being around similar from your wife for so long.  

As I said, I have distance, so do a few other posters here.  Give yourself some time.  Reflect where you want to be in 12 months, 24 months and 10 years.  Plan for that and make decisions around those goals.  

Write a list of the pro's and cons and give yourself that time to make the decision.  


AJJ.  

[workinprogress]

Thanks for the advice.  Perhaps part of me believes that if I announce that I am done that she will make an effort to restore the marriage.  I know it's silly.

Hey workinprogress,

I skimmed briefly at your first post last year to get an idea where you are coming from.  It makes a lot of sense.  You have been with this woman a long time.  She was your first family after your FOO abandoned you.  You have been at this a while now here.  I can see why this is especially hard for you.

I left my FOO at a young age as well and having a disordered FOO has really caused me to deal with many things in life on different terms than others.  My partner and I did not make it work out... .I do hope the best outcome for you... .I'm just saying.  Well, when the idea of separating confronted me... .it reopened all of those old wounds.  Wounds of early neglect.  Early abandonment.  Not having a sense of "family" to identify with.  Finding new roles and a new purpose in life.  I literally imagined the world wanted to swallow me whole.  And I even hoped it would to pull me away from my anguish.

I cannot imagine your experience... .as it is yours only.

I can only share that this is a good safe place here... .as I'm sure you know.  These people are writing because they are real people that do care.

So if you are feeling overwhelmed and about to pop... .

Can you just let go of any responsibility towards this for the next 24hrs or so?  (Ideally a week but I won't push it .  )

Trust in some of the words here ... .anywhere offered in this thread... .So that you can bring yourself to a place of peace for this time.

Come back to these thoughts when you have had some moments of peace... .and feel less restless.

And see how your perspective is from that angle?

Thanks Sunflower.  I think I can hold off saying anything for awhile.  I just get so disappointed in everything sometimes.  It is a waste of time trying to express myself to her, so it just builds up.  I appreciate the support.

[workinprogress]

Thanks Aussie.  I only slept a couple of hours last night.  I told my wife this morning that things are really bothering me and that I am going to call a therapist today.  I told her that it is crazy to have to live as a man and not seen my wife naked for years. 

I will call a therapist today.  If I get the courage I will call an attorney too.

I find it so difficult to follow through with the attorney.  I have a hard time letting go.  Common sense and reason would say that my marriage may have been over as long as 17 years ago.

[Aussie JJ]

I have learnt that emotions are often not that logical in these circumstances. 

Trauma bonding and a mired of other things at play really take their toll on us emotionally and leave us a wreck. 

I didn't sleep properly for around 9 months, their was a good month and a half that I didn't sleep more than 2 hours a night and I woke up with nightmares as I confronted the reality of what I had lived through.  constantly waking up in a puddle of sweat like a crazed man. 

It sucks.  What doesn't kill us will only make us stronger, I know it doesn't feel that way, it feels quite the opposite.  Understand that this is ok, and you like others before you will get through it.  You have a therapist, someone to work through this with, you have others whom although were not your next-door neighbours we can relate more than anyone else as we have been through it as well. 


AJJ. 

[ForeverDad]

Thanks for the advice.  Perhaps part of me believes that if I announce that I am done that she will make an effort to restore the marriage.  I know it's silly.

No, it's not silly.  It's understandable.  We all had those feelings.  And it might even work if we weren't dealing with an almost intractable mental illness.  Intractable in that the other person has to want to change for it to work and for most the Denial and need to Blame and Shift Blame is just too great.

A good indicator is whether she is in effective and progressing therapy with an experienced and perceptive therapist or psychologist, one who is not easily fooled or conned with Masks of Seeming Normalcy.  If she is progressing in therapy, there is hope.  If there is Total Denial, then watch out.

It's also DANGEROUS.  For example, if your spouse has ever done, threatened or even contemplated making allegations against you, expect for it to actually happen.  I thought it could never happen to me.  I had been a religious volunteer for some 15 years before I met my spouse.  She joined me in the religious volunteer work for another 8 years before it just got too much and we eventually had a child.  That triggered her intense insecurity about abuse and abusers.  In her mind anyone and everyone was 'probably' an abuser.  Despite our deep religious background, once we separated and headed into divorce she made every sort of child abuse allegation possible against me.  That was the first time in my life I was thankful we had a boy and not a girl.  Didn't stop her from trying to frame me for being the worst sort of pervert.  For years it was a horrendous experience facing CPS, child therapists looking at me as "likely to be dangerous", hospital ER, regional child abuse center, court, Guardian ad Litem, deputy sheriffs, police officers, etc.

I repeat, if your spouse has ever done, threatened or even contemplated making allegations against you, expect for it to actually happen.  When the high conflict ex-spouses get desperate and feel at a disadvantage, there are no limits to what they will do to make You look worse than them.

If your children are older or nearly grown, the risk of child abuse allegations are less but she could also claim DV - and most police and courts default to protecting the female gender who can posture best as targets and victims.

[livednlearned]

Hi workinprogress,

What would your intentions be in telling her you spoke to a lawyer?

[workinprogress]

Hi workinprogress,

What would your intentions be in telling her you spoke to a lawyer?

I would tell her to let her know that I am seriously tired of living this way.  I would also hope for some effort on her part.  I think she's too busy playing on her phone all the time to even be interested though.

[livednlearned]

Hi workinprogress,

What would your intentions be in telling her you spoke to a lawyer?

I would tell her to let her know that I am seriously tired of living this way.  I would also hope for some effort on her part.  I think she's too busy playing on her phone all the time to even be interested though.

It sounds like you are not necessarily serious about divorce yet? That's ok. Using divorce as a wake up call, and one that you are not necessarily prepared to follow through on, could bring a lot of drama and conflict to your life.

How do you think she would respond if you told her you talked to a lawyer?

[workinprogress]

Hi workinprogress,

What would your intentions be in telling her you spoke to a lawyer?

I would tell her to let her know that I am seriously tired of living this way.  I would also hope for some effort on her part.  I think she's too busy playing on her phone all the time to even be interested though.

It sounds like you are not necessarily serious about divorce yet? That's ok. Using divorce as a wake up call, and one that you are not necessarily prepared to follow through on, could bring a lot of drama and conflict to your life.

How do you think she would respond if you told her you talked to a lawyer?

I don't really know.  I think she would be very unhappy about it.  I just can't tell if she cares or not.  I must say, it's been this way for years though.

[ForeverDad]

Hi workinprogress,

What would your intentions be in telling her you spoke to a lawyer?

I would tell her to let her know that I am seriously tired of living this way.  I would also hope for some effort on her part.  I think she's too busy playing on her phone all the time to even be interested though.

It sounds like you are not necessarily serious about divorce yet? That's ok. Using divorce as a wake up call, and one that you are not necessarily prepared to follow through on, could bring a lot of drama and conflict to your life.

How do you think she would respond if you told her you talked to a lawyer?

I don't really know.  I think she would be very unhappy about it.  I just can't tell if she cares or not.  I must say, it's been this way for years though.

Past patterns are good predictors for the future.  However, if you've never really taken a stand for yourself before and you set firm boundaries now, it's hard to predict whether it will just be the same old responses or whether the fur will fly (extinction burst trying to force you back into the old patterns).  If your spouse has threatened or contemplated allegations before, then your safety risks are definitely higher.

[workinprogress]

Hi workinprogress,

What would your intentions be in telling her you spoke to a lawyer?

I would tell her to let her know that I am seriously tired of living this way.  I would also hope for some effort on her part.  I think she's too busy playing on her phone all the time to even be interested though.

It sounds like you are not necessarily serious about divorce yet? That's ok. Using divorce as a wake up call, and one that you are not necessarily prepared to follow through on, could bring a lot of drama and conflict to your life.

How do you think she would respond if you told her you talked to a lawyer?

I don't really know.  I think she would be very unhappy about it.  I just can't tell if she cares or not.  I must say, it's been this way for years though.

Past patterns are good predictors for the future.  However, if you've never really taken a stand for yourself before and you set firm boundaries now, it's hard to predict whether it will just be the same old responses or whether the fur will fly (extinction burst trying to force you back into the old patterns).  If your spouse has threatened or contemplated allegations before, then your safety risks are definitely higher.

She's made no allegations before.  In her past patterns, she was loving and caring off and on.  I just wonder how much it had to do with her "wanting" something from me.  Like building a house, getting pregnant, money to go shopping... .

[ForeverDad]

She's made no allegations before.

Not all pwBPD are aggressively confrontational and obstructive, those could include the Waiflike persons, ones more inclined to self-harm such as by cutting, etc.  However those arriving here typically report extremes of conflict, the Queens and Witches (who might even have been somewhat low conflict previously).  Maybe that's because their cases are so bad they are desperate to find relief and search and search until they find our peer support?

If your spouse is not so confrontational, then be thankful, it could be much, much worse.  It's just so hard to predict in advance how the future will turn out.

A big determining factor for the future of the marriage - success or failure - is whether your spouse will set aside the Denial, reduce the Blaming and Blame Shifting, seek out meaningful therapy and truly apply it diligently in all aspects of life.