Worse and worse

[Glenna]

I lost what I wrote a few minutes ago when I tried to preview it. I am so sad and scared. the paragraph below was just emailed to me by my daughter, who, with her 2 boys, is visiting a friend for the weekend. This is the kind of thing she screams at me. She never can say one specific thing that I do wrong. I do so much for her it's incredible, without keeping track. I just do things for her and the boys because I like to. To me this paragraph is insane. It is frightening. I wish I could not be here when she returns tomorrow, but this is my home. Last year I went away to escape her, to a friend's freezing cold condo, and caught such a bad sinus infection that I still haven't gotten rid of it.

Thinking about the past years and the horror she has subjected me too makes me despair and wish to not see her for a long time. She has broken things, ripped photos and drawings, broken things. I am so sad I'm sick.

The first broken window was when we were returning home on a Sunday nite from a visit to my mother, and she wanted to stay go to an adult party. She was 16. I said she couldn't since she had school the next day. she punched a window. This is what she refers to as a mind-f**k.

She makes me not want to live.


Her email:

For years I believed that you craved abuse, verbal and more most definitely physical, due to your childhood or god knows what. I now have just realized that you just sacrifice yourself as a tool for your even sicker craft and goal. You want to me suffer self hate and guilt and shame. You provoke me to unthinkable words, and would so to unthinkable actions if I did not have the self control of a military personnel and absolutely DELIGHT in the reaction. Your eyes light up with sick delight when you remember your past mind-f**ks that had me breaking windows and the best, physical abuse \uD83D\uDC4F\uD83D\uDE00 so I must suffer the deep guilty dirty secret of having done these things and being "wrong" and "horrible" and "shameful" and "dirty" and it pulls down my spirit... .and my face.  

I can't even be sociable out here or enjoy myself for a second. \uD83D\uDC4F\uD83D\uDC4F\uD83D\uDC4F

Why do you do this to me? You make hard core s and m look healthy. Try that! Leave me alone!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[infiniteeyes]

Hello Glenna

Im not sure what your circumstances are but my first though after I read that paragraphy she wrote to you was

"Why would this mother let her 22 year old daughter return home tomorrow?"

[Glenna]

Thank you for your reply. Yes. Why.

She is actually 36, with 2 boys who are really nice and quite mentally healthy.

Her father died 5 years ago. My extended family live far away as do my siblings so there is no one but me here. She is staying with her childhood friend for the weekend with her kids.  Her husband is on another continent and she was supposed to go there Aug 1. Now she says she wants to stay with me longer. Why would she want to stay with such a devil as she describes? but she does. She knows I am not what she says. But she chooses to say such things anyway.

If it were only her I would email her and tell her not to come back here. But if you would ever meet her two children you would understand why I cannot do that. They are so good and nice. I cannot do that to them.

Her friend would not let her stay long anyway. She will be having other family members to stay soon.

[Glenna]

One thought I have is to email her and say that she must be in a very bad state to send such an email. And that it is probably her financial situation that is at least partly to blame.

Just that. No more.

I think she is truly in bad shape. This is what scares me. She was an extremely loving child, and had intense sympathy for others.

[lbjnltx]

One thought I have is to email her and say that she must be in a very bad state to send such an email. And that it is probably her financial situation that is at least partly to blame.

Just that. No more.

I think she is truly in bad shape. This is what scares me. She was an extremely loving child, and had intense sympathy for others.

Hi Glenna,

I'm sorry to read that you are so hurt and feeling so down that you feel like not living is an option.    This can be a common feeling... .not wanting to go through these things anymore and feeling like we have no way out of it that causes us to feel hopeless.  I do want you to know that there are ways to improve your situation through skills.

Regarding your reply to the note.  I think you are on the right track with a brief reply to her that recognizes her pain.  I would veer away from attaching any cause to her behaviors or feelings (financial stress) because that would feel invalidating to her.  It is ok to validate her feelings of shame, wrongful, and dirty. 

Have you read about validation and the purpose for it?  Would you like to write your reply here and get some feedback on it before sending?  We are happy to help you with this skill, it is not entirely intuitive so don't feel bad that you aren't a master at it (yet  )

lbj

[Glenna]

Thank you lbjnltx,

I would have to reply today, since I think they are coming home tonight. I read so much yesterday that I can hardly stand to read more now. My eyes hurt and I sat for too long.  I have no sound on my laptop so I can't watch the videos. So i would like to keep it as simple as possible.

I would like to keep it to:

You must have been in a very bad state to send me that email.

It doesn't sound very nice actually. What if I just add that I'm sorry? Or - I'm sorry if you couldn't enjoy your time out there?

I am afraid that if I click on validate the valid this post will disappear, so I am sending it and then looking at that

[Glenna]

Thank you again lbjltx,

I just scanned v the v. I will read it more thoroughly later. I recognize EVERYTHING in it because that is exactly how I treat my oldest grandson! Because I have no anger or resentment towards him, because he understands that when I get annoyed it is no more than a temporary annoyance and I am usually right, and because he does not reject what I say, it is easy to treat him this way. I know it is a loving way. Sadly, my daughter has dragged me through so much hell for more than 20 years that I have little patience with her. Also, when I am to her the way I am to him, she will often react with anger, mocking, insults. To put it crudely, I have so had it with her.

So this is my problem and I will have to work on it.

[lbjnltx]

When you are in a better place perhaps reading Listen with Empathy will help you reconnect to the love you have for your daughter.

Since you have brushed up on the validation skill would you like to try another draft in response to your daughter's email?

[Glenna]

Dear lbjnltx,

I don't think I can do it.

For a start, after reading v the v, I realize that I invalidate her constantly.  My mother invalidated me 90some percent of the time and it crippled me. I tried very hard not to do that with my d, but when she started being so horrid to me at about 16, I guess it was an automatic reaction.

If I try to think what I would respond to my grandson if he sent me this email, I am flumoxed. I would think he went over the edge and I would think there was nothing I could say other than what would seem to be shallow, I'm very sorry you feel that way. My instinct would be to ask what the h happened to cause this? and to tell him it's crazy for a nice boy to feel this. Obviously I am a beginner at this. And I am shocked at the extreme language - dirty? This is not a word I have ever used except for a floor or suchlike. I feel so sorry for her that she would feel such a thing, but how do I translate that into something positive?

what I would really like to do would be to tell my d when she comes home that I realize I have been invalidating her and go on from there. Other than that I am unprepared for her.

[lbjnltx]

Admitting to our kids where we didn't parent them in the most beneficial way is a good place to start Glenna.

Also, after we apologize for our mistakes we can also add that we are learning to do better because we want to have a better relationship with them.

How she reacts to your statement is outside of your control.  She will remember your words and may even use them against you... .don't let that stop you from doing the right thing. We are only responsible for what we have power over... .ourselves, our thoughts, our feelings, our intentions and our actions.

[Glenna]

Dear lbjnltx,

Thank you very much for your feedback, your kind attitude and the valuable information. I am almost afraid to hope, but I will try to.  I am extremely grateful. This is the first helpful stuff I've ever gotten re her.

Glenna

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

 

[Glenna]

Thanks again for the support.

My daughter came home in a calm mood and when she saw that I was pleasant, she was 'friends' again. Still there have been many small episodes. My nights are ruined by worry and fear, as it is so clear she can't be okay for long.

Last evening and night were typical of the weirdness of our lives.

She wanted to go to the park for a picnic which was fine with me. I was in wretched shape because of the stress of the day, but was fine with going. she prepared the simple meal and we took a bottle of nice champagne. All was fine until the champagne was gone. She wanted to go and get more. I said don't. She got up and went, four long blocks on foot. She came back saying it was really a spoiler to go but the moon was out and we were fine to stay longer. I had one more glass and didn't want anymore. When we came home we sat out with a neighbor and my daughter basically drank the rest. She also took a xanax, g-d knows why. by the time she came in she was what I would call drunk. She sounded weird and kept repeating the same words to her boys. I could not stand it and asked her to stop repeating. i told her she was nearly drunk and should just be quiet. She said she wasn't, told the boys that I had stupid ideas and that she was just tired. Then she said that I had BETRAYED her, by not drinking more of the champagne. That if I had said I would only have one glass she would not have gone for it. Later I heard her telling the boys that I was an evil old woman. This morning she was very upset and again she said I betrayed her. That she was thinking of me when she hurried to the wine shop, etc. She knows I can't drink much. When I told her that I didn't know I would only drink one glass, she was mollified. She was of course relieved that she didn't have to think of me  'betraying' her. Point is, that for all her horrible stressing of me and turning me from a loving mother and grandmother into a cunning sick evil witch, she is in her own misery. All I wish is for her to get out of that awful world she lives in and be okay.

[pessim-optimist]

My nights are ruined by worry and fear, as it is so clear she can't be okay for long.

That must be taking a big toll on you... .How long do you have to go before your daughter leaves?

Can you take little breaks to relax a bit and calm yourself down away from the stress (trips to the store or 'running an errand' and stopping for a walk in the park or to just sit by a stream)?

Point is, that for all her horrible stressing of me and turning me from a loving mother and grandmother into a cunning sick evil witch, she is in her own misery. All I wish is for her to get out of that awful world she lives in and be okay.

I hear you. We want our kids to be happy and healthy. That's a good goal, and something to hope and pray for. Perhaps it is in your daughter's future if/when she is willing and able to look at herself and seek help for her pain... .

In the meantime, you have successfully weathered another potentially explosive storm and for that - give yourself credit, pat yourself on the back and do something nice for yourself. It will refresh you and give you more energy to keep your home more stable and peaceful.

[Glenna]

Thank you for your kind words. I never give myself much credit for difusing a situation. I feel relief but nothing positive. From now on I will try to.

What I would like to write about now is demonizing. It has been a real cross in my  life.

My father stopped speaking to me when I was 13, after a 'misunderstanding' about my birthday present. I wanted a small record player for my room and he wanted to get a larger one for the living room. I cried. They finally compromised on a medium sized one which could go back and forth from my room to the living room, but he never forgave me and never spoke to me again. He died when I was seventeen without ever speaking to me again.

My older brother started to treat me like I was some kind of creep starting when I was about 18. I never knew why, but accepted it without objecting. My younger brother stopped talking to me when I was 30. We had been good friends before that. At some point in my 30's, I had some conversations with older brother and saw his face reflect his reaction as he saw that I was different than he had thought.  Since my mother died, my younger brother and I get along fine too.

It took me a long time to realize that my mother was behind all this. She was a sweet talking lady who was always a victim, always the one to feel sorry for, always the overworked, good mother. She had a magical talent for turning people against one another. When I was sick when I was forty, she even turned my 8 yr old daughter against me by telling her that my mind was affected by the surgery and I was 'not the same.'

Now my daughter is trying to turn her boys against me.  I see a pattern. Every time they come to visit the boys are happy to see me and we get along fine and have a lot of fun. As things deteriorate my daughter blames me for EVERYTHING that goes wrong and says insane things about me, how I want to see her taken away, how I want to humiliate her, shame her, what a horrible mother I was to her, etc.

[Glenna]

cont'd.

So here is the bizarre thing that happens: The boys have begun to tease me to the point of harassment. they smile and laugh as they do it but it is not fun teasing. It is pretty awful. They take photos of me unawares and laugh, follow me around and make loud irritating noises just to bother me. It is obvious that they still like and love me, but they seem to be compelled to avenge their mother. She has spoken about this at other times as being a good thing.

I feel very unlucky to have this curse of demonizing in my life. I am described as something I am not. It is very undermining, and all my life it has made me sure I'm NOT GOOD ENOUGH. I honestly feel that because I accepted this creepy form of abuse from my mother and family, that I have somehow allowed it from my daughter.  Now that I am aware of it, I am working on changing myself. In the meantime, I would like to know how to deal with it in the present.

Thank you.

[Suzn]

Hello Glenna  

I wanted to jump in and welcome you too, so very glad you have found us. I'm really sorry you are going through all of this with your daughter. It's painful to be treated poorly by anyone, especially one of your family members.

I honestly feel that because I accepted this creepy form of abuse from my mother and family, that I have somehow allowed it from my daughter.  Now that I am aware of it, I am working on changing myself. In the meantime, I would like to know how to deal with it in the present.

What you wrote here rings some bells for me too, it's a cycle of abuse and these cycles can go back for generations. I came here originally on the Leaving board after ending a relationship with a person with BPD and after a lot of reading and hard work realized the depth of dysfunction in my own family.

Your father not speaking to you after age 13 is terrible, the silent treatment is a form of abuse and has long lasting effects. My mother medals in mine and my brother's relationship as well and has also always been the victim. The behaviors you speak of in regards to your parents are core wounds for you. Working through the grief you have there when you are up to it can be helpful for you and eventually your daughter.

Things are changing for the better since I've started posting and reading the Lessons and the Survivor's Guide on the Coping and Healing from a BPD Parent, Sibling, or Inlaw Board. I'd like to invite you to also post on that board in regards to your parents. There I've learned about boundaries and how to enforce them which helps us to feel we are most definitely good enough.

Here is a little more information on what boundaries are as you will want to start working on these for yourself with what's happening with your daughter, and from what you wrote, your grandchildren as well. As hard as it may be we are doing no one any favors by not having and enforcing our personal boundaries. This is a start to how you deal with what's happening right now.

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

Welcome to our family Glenna, I'm looking forward to hearing more of your story.  

[Glenna]

Thank you so much, Suzn! It is so comforting to not feel alone. Bad grammar, but so true.

[Kate4queen]

She's basically reflecting her extreme pain and anger over her own choices back on you. It's classic BPD behavior and is really all about how she is feeling in that moment rather than about you at all. She's turning her own shame and guilt onto you because she can't own it so she has to dump that pain on someone who loves her.

It's not fair to you.

You can definitely validate her by saying you feel sorry for the pain she is in but please don't say sorry as if you caused it.

I think you need to get some help for you because she is currently drowning you in her anger and guilt and when we get like that we end up in the FOG of fear, obligation and guilt and allow ourselves to be abused or eventually accept that we really are these horrible people our children whom we love tell us we are.

You aren't that person she's describing. In your heart you are a good person and mother but they can turn you all around sometimes... .

Please consider going to see a counselor for yourself so that you can start to set some boundaries, not for her sake but for yours.

Best of luck.

[Glenna]

Thank you Kate4Queen. I do need to be constantly aware of sinking into low self esteem and feelings of being practically intrinsically wrong.

My daughter has been a bit better lately. She had been taking ceraplex and also xanax and valium which she was given in Europe. She has run out of all of them which explains some of the extreme behavior of last week. Now that she has adjusted to not taking them, she is, as I say, a little better, calmer and a little saner. BUT, the basic problem is still there. My way is always to think that it's going to be gone all of a sudden, because she 'sees the light.'

Earlier today she was out and I cleaned the kitchen. I had to spend an entire hour just picking up her and her children's things from the floor and the table and cleaning up the sand that they bring in on their shoes, etc. I put all her things that were on the table, papers, cosmetics, books, on one side, neatly together. Now how the h*** is this wrong?

To her it is doing something mean. Later she said to me DO NOT PUT ALL MY THINGS TOGETHER LIKE THAT! I said, wait a minute. You mean it's wrong for me to just move all your things into one area?

YES! in such a loud awful voice that I feel mild fear inside. What a lousy way to live.

[Glenna]

It has been a bad day. Hopefully I have learned my lesson that I cannot treat her as if she were in any way normal.

When she was getting along with me this morning, her crazy anger went to the kids. She was really nasty to both of them and made them cry. It was very unsuitable treatment on her part for two sensible boys who try hard to please her. Problem is she doesn't discipline them or teach them, so they do things she doesn't like. then she gets insulting. Lately they have been getting more volatile and she condemns them for this and calls them horrible names.

I forgot again and thought I'd appeal to her intelligence and her love for them. I told her that if she wants them to stop being volatile, she has to stop being volatile.

I have been suffering for about 6 hours for this. She says horrible things to me in front of them and then tells them horrible things about me. How I was such a horrible mother, how I want her and them to be low and miserable because I am and I want company, etc etc. On and On she goes, often in the most horrible loud voice that makes my one eardrum pop. It is unbelievable.

Then she gets on the phone with someone and talks in the most civilized voice you could imagine.

It's horrible to live with her.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Glenna]

Yesterday was one of the worst days of my life. All night I was just sick with sadness of what my d has become.

She does not appear to suffer. She is very vain and is constantly taking care of her skin, looking in the mirror, etc. She not only cares nothing for me, she must actually want me to suffer.

She lies to her 2 boys about me, telling them fifty times a day what a bad mother I was. She does this both in my hearing and when I'm not there. She informs me of the latter.

I feel as if my soul needs to vomit. I have put up with so much abuse and unlove from her it's a sin on my part to have accepted it.

This morning she tells me without emotion that of course I was a terrible mother, probably one of the worst ever.

I am not going to start a description of myself as a mother. I dedicated myself to her health and happiness, and never faltered from that. I still do it now. My mother, who rarely complimented me, said once that she never saw anyone who was as good a mother as I was. My d's father would say the same thing, but he is no longer here.

[Glenna]

My BPDd arrived here w her boys on the 24th of June. They were to stay until aug 1. The 'plan' changed and they are now here until Sept 6-7.

The mess they make of my apartment is unbelievable. She has always bought a lot of clothes for herself and for them, and she keeps most of them. There are boxes and closets and laundry bags of her things here. this is besides hundreds of photos, every scrap of paper that could be called a souvenir, a box I can't lift of the kids school papers, and hundreds of toys. Her things take up so much space that I don't have enough space for my own things. I don't throw anything of hers away. Every year I naively think that we will deal with the stuff when they are here. But it doesn't happen.

Not only does she have all this stuff, she is also extremely careless about neatness and order. She NEVER screws covers on, never cleans up after herself and doesn't keep after the kids to be neat either. The place is so bad that we can't have anyone over.

And yet I am so horrible, and she is saintly.

Point of all this is that I must change. I have been a fool to enable her and allow her to be abusive. She has always used the threat of cutting me off, and even though I know she could never do that, I have to admit that I have overdone niceness in order to try to make her happy so we could have a good relationship.

I would just like to add another injustice I have to put up with. Whenever she can't find something she accuses me of having thrown it away out of viciousness and jealousy. Today she is saying I threw out her best dresses.

[pessim-optimist]

Hello again, Glenna,

I can imagine how trapped, frustrated and ripped off you must feel right now.

And I am sad with you that you don't have your husband to lean on and support each other in this... . 

Point of all this is that I must change. I have been a fool to enable her and allow her to be abusive. She has always used the threat of cutting me off, and even though I know she could never do that, I have to admit that I have overdone niceness in order to try to make her happy so we could have a good relationship.

We've been there too, and ultimately appeasing and enabling may work in the short run, but it makes the whole situation worse in the long run.

You did not get where you are in a day, Glenna. It will be a long journey back, but there is hope!

We teach others how to treat us by what we allow and by the boundaries we set and uphold. It is a process though, and in the process, it often gets worse first before it gets better, and it's good to be ready and prepared. Suzn posted a really good resource on Boundaries for you. There is also more in the right-hand side panel ---->

Feel free to check it out when things aren't too stressful or heated, and we can also answer questions you might have.

First things first - are you currently feeling safe in your own home? Do you fear that it could at any point become unsafe? In such cases, it is good to have a safety plan in place, which can give you some peace of mind. There is a good resource on the website on this topic here:

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety_first.pdf

It may help you asses your current situation and think of possible things you could do to make sure you remain safe if things did escalate.

[Glenna]

Thank you, pessim-optimist, for your sympathy and support.

I read the thing about boundaries once and was very impressed. I had never thought about boundaries in that way before. I will be reading it again, in fact studying it. My way was to say no and then when she persisted I just got mad or gave up.

Interestingly though, I have never had abuse problems with men in my life, only women. Several so called friends have taken advantage of me, I always feel sorry for them. I never 'feel sorry' for men, except maybe my brothers and they are the opposite of abusive. Also, if a man gives the slightest indication of being difficult or a problem person, I have zero use for them and no problem shutting them out. It's as if I have an automatic wall that descends. This gives me a very vague idea of how I could have dealt with her back when she was younger, and maybe even now. I will have to read and think about it more.

[pessim-optimist]

I will have to read and think about it more.

It's a process, and to have a good understanding of it and being ready is much better than trying it out unprepared and then having it backfire. It is a tough undertaking in any case with initial backlash.

[Glenna]

I am certainly a chronic fool. Again I have fallen for her hideous sickness.

I came home from a walk and she was in the kitchen lamenting that she had forgotten to get something at the store. Even though I was tired I said I'd go. I went. One thing I bought was wrong. I said I'd go to the store nearby. i went. She didn't like what I bought. I went back and changed it.

So when I came back she served me dinner. I sat down with her and listened to all her complaints of the weekend away. She doesn't like any form of child neglect or disrespect and lamented what she saw when away. I of course agreed with her.

Dinner over she begins to include me in the list of child disrespecters. I'm surprised and offended, but according to her now it is now a GIVEN that I was a terrible mother. She actually said 'it's a given' that I was a bad mother.

I would not have sat down and eaten with her had I known she was thinking this kind of ugly, mean, cruel insanity.

She is off her lexapro, but is that a reason to be seeing the past as opposite to what it was? It's frightening how she seems to actually believe what she says.

I loved her so much and treated her as if she were an angel from heaven. Why on earth is she doing this? I'm flabergasted and sick with sadness. It is horrible enough to think that she is sick, but this makes it seem as if she's almost psychotic.

[Glenna]

She has just come into my room to ask me why I have a problem with what she says. She forgives me, she says, ?, so apparently I should just admit I treated her 'as an inferior being.'

My fear is that this is something worse even than BPD. It is so insane.

About a year ago, I was saying that I wished I could have had more children. She said 'I think that it was good that you had just one - that way it was just so perfect.'

Where are we now?

[lbjnltx]

She has just come into my room to ask me why I have a problem with what she says. She forgives me, she says, ?, so apparently I should just admit I treated her 'as an inferior being.'

My fear is that this is something worse even than BPD. It is so insane.

About a year ago, I was saying that I wished I could have had more children. She said 'I think that it was good that you had just one - that way it was just so perfect.'

Where are we now?

It seems this has come full circle again Glenna. 

Going in circles in our relationships only stops when someone gets off the merrygoround. 

This is your life and you have every right to take some control over it. 

Admitting to our kids where we didn't parent them in the most beneficial way is a good place to start Glenna.

Also, after we apologize for our mistakes we can also add that we are learning to do better because we want to have a better relationship with them.

How she reacts to your statement is outside of your control.  She will remember your words and may even use them against you... .don't let that stop you from doing the right thing. We are only responsible for what we have power over... .ourselves, our thoughts, our feelings, our intentions and our actions.

Stating that we didn't have the skills necessary to parent our kids according to their needs is nothing to be ashamed of... .it isn't intuitive to know the needs or best responses to a special needs child.  What would you think of acknowledging your short comings in parenting her, telling her you want to have a healthier relationship with her and follow that up with a boundary regarding verbal/emotional abuse?

We can work through this with you if you want to go in this direction.



lbj

[Glenna]

Thank you lbjnltx,

I will be thinking about this.

[Rapt Reader]

Hello, Glenna  

Have you read the book "Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder" by Valerie Porr? If not, I think it would be a very good read for you; it's my BPD "Bible" (has a very good Index in the back where you can look up the issues you are dealing with, though reading it all is the best thing to do).

I ask this, because several of us on this site--including me--have benefitted from using this statement from the Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder book. It's found on page 331, and she calls it an

Acceptance-Acknowledgement Declaration:

I never knew how much pain you were in. I never knew how much you suffered. I must have said and done so many things to hurt you because I did not understand or acknowledge your pain. I am so sorry. It was never my intention to cause you pain. What can we do now to improve our relationship?

This is the kind of statement that lbjnltx is talking about, and having an ongoing conversation with your daughter using the Empathy skills that she also mentioned can be read about in a Workshop we have here: How do we become more empathetic to the pwBPD in our life? That Workshop has saved my relationship with my (non-BPD) son and his wife (who has, at least, BPD traits)  

One of the best communication techniques to use when dealing with our BPD loved ones is related to Validation, and is about using Support, Empathy & Truth, and is found here: COMMUNICATION: S.E.T. technique. This is the best skill I've learned since finding this site, and I not only use it for communicating with my BPD loved ones, but with everyone in my life, actually.

And one more thing that I have found that has made a VERY big difference in how I figured out how to deal with my BPD loved ones is this: Radical Acceptance for family members... .When I was so tangled up in their feelings about me and their words to me, Radical Acceptance of their disordered thinking/feelings helped me to detach from their treatment of me and see the situation as it really is: it's more about them, and not me--it's about their disordered feelings/thinking and doesn't mean I'm a "bad person" at all.

You're in a tough, stressful and difficult situation, Glenna, but keep reading all you can on this site, and posting your questions about the difficulties you are having with your daughter. You will find things will get better as you learn more and apply what you learn... .Can you let us know what you think of the information at those (or some of those) links? We'd really like to help  

[Glenna]

Hello Rapt Reader,

I had already written the following post to lbjnltx when I received your post. Thank you for it. I know she must be in pain, but she keeps it deep down under a persona of both competance and confidence. She has lots of good friends and has from the outside a very nice life. Her friends think she is an angel. But her behavior at home is so objectionable that the pain she causes, especially to her children, is so bad I'm appalled. Her older son used to be a happy boy. She now treats him with a mix of lovey dovey seducing and insults. She has said that in every altercation with his brother he is the wrong one. I see how horribly this hurts him, and of course encourages more bad feeling between the two boys.  

I looked at the workshop on empathy and it looks great. But I am having a hard time with what I see as her really hideous behavior. I don't understand it. As I asked lbjnltx below, do BPD's have a conscience? I am really curious about that. My mother didn't have much of one.

Thank you for your concern and kindness, and your suggestions. I am very appreciative.

Glenna

Dear lbjnltx,

I have improved my behavior a lot re my uxBPDd36. I am seeing her insults as just raving and am not taking them to heart. I don't react and I don't even feel much anger. I have been thinking a lot about how to talk to her about unmet needs in her childhood and intend to do it soon.

Problem is that she is just so nasty. This morning she again encouraged her two boys to give me a hard time. They were using a slingshot to shoot toys into my bedroom, which does not have a door that locks, and just harassing me in general while I was trying to work on the computer. She laughs and laughs, esp when something hit me, and says 'they're just playing' when I object. To me this is sadistic, and she is giving hideous example.

Also, she has now begun to blame them for things that are wrong in her life, e.g. 'you made me sick, so upset I ... ., you're the reason I can't do ... ., etc.

When she is like this I see her as a depraved person. During 'splits' do BPD's have a conscience?

Thank you again for your responses.

Glenna

[Glenna]

So I see what one of my problems is. I wrote both of the above posts right after my uxBPDd36 went out with her kids. They were annoying me to the end. Since then I am angry. I control my annoyance when they are here, but when she leaves I'm furious. I see the horrific mess of the apartment, I see things I washed on the floor, I think of what she says and her attitude and I get furious. Of course it's anger that is only hurting me. Is it resentment? It definitely keeps me locked in a spot.

[lbjnltx]

Do they have a conscience? Yes... .and mistakes/abusive behavior/irresponsibility adds to their inherent sense of shame.  When the shame rises up and becomes to much for them to tolerate (they generally have low distress tolerance) they lash out and project onto those who will take it... .mom, dad, husband, child, bff.  As they learn skills to not lash out and have a more positive self image/sense of self they can increase their distress tolerance, learn to express in healthy ways and have value based boundaries.  Lashing out and projecting is ugly and hurtful and the lesser of other low level coping skills like self injury or engaging in suicidal ideation/threats/attempts.

I can understand why you are angry... .angry people are hurting people.   

Dealing with the underlying emotions is important so that we don't become resentful.  Read about it here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135831.0

[Glenna]

I hardly know what to say. I am in such a despondant state.

My uBPDd36's behavior has changed somewhat since I have changed mine. I don't react the way I used to, I stay calmer and ignore a lot of her crazy talk. I can't say that I am being very loving, but I'm answering in a nice tone and I did say that at some point I must have let her down. She said she does not know when that was. She actually asked a family friend if I was a good mother. He said he never saw anyone who was a better one and that I was a wonderful mother. Did this give her pause? No. 

I have been very aware of not putting my head on a chopping block in any way and this seems to take the wind out of her sails. Sorry for the 2 cliches, but they express what I want to say. I feel that she hates me when I'm at all 'weak,' which means disarmed, guileless, chummy or sad. I need to keep a distance for her to respect me.

She is apologizing more for her 'nastiness,' and actually said once that it was because of x that she was being so awful to me.

But in another way she's getting worse! She was reading some descriptions of sick personalities in an old eneagram book and being just amazed that the worst type fit me perfectly. she did this loudly in front of the kids, almost as if it were a fun thing. She mocked me, again loudly about a short note I had written to myself about eating less which showed, to her, that I was a sicko about food. She repeats these things many times before she moves on. She has succeeded in,  at least for now, turning the boys against me. They used to come into my room to visit and we'd laugh and joke, used to want to go places with me, be friendly. These days they stick to her, only want to go outside with her and say unkind things to me in the guise of teasing and sometimes even seriously.

I am so beaten down that I think only of surviving until they leave, but the truth is I am sick from the sadness and the loss and the twistedness of it. Like my mother, she is taking everyone away from them so that she will be the only person in their lives. She has told them to stop calling me grandma and call me by my name instead. My mother had us call my father by his first name.

Knowing that the worse she is, the worse she feels about herself and that makes her be even worse is frightening. And to see her twisting up the minds of these boys is so deeply sickening.

I'd like to add that I have been enduring her  abuse for at least 20 years now. I think this is why I cannot manage to speak to her in a very loving tone. I am too horrified at her.

[Glenna]

I see I am repeating myself. The problem is that for the past twenty years I have denied that anything is seriously wrong with her and erased all the ugly episodes the minute she was 'nice' again.

I now don't believe the 'nice' at all, and therefore can't feel much sympathy for her. I do when I'm not with her, but as soon as she starts, I'm, at the least, annoyed.