spreading lies ... smear campaign

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My wife is a NPD with ASPD.  It pains me to admit it because everytime I do ... I realize my life together with her and my kids can only go one way.  Recently, she turns up her attack tactic... .or maybe it has to do with years of her trying, now she finally succeeded in triangulating with another NPD friend of hers in harassing me.  To start, her friend's family and ours used to be friends.  Her friend who I am pretty sure has NPD has had horrible marriatal issues with her husband.  Similar problems like ours.  In any event, my wife befriended her and feeding her stuff going against me.  It is strange, in a strings of emails, her friend is supporting my wife's accussations and even stretching to the point like she witnessed them.  Keep in mind, In the past 3 plus years, I may only saw her friend 3 to 4 times, and the reason is that her friend became very polarizing.  She used to try to get me to support her beligerent ways against her husband and i always stayed out of it, so she started to only wanting to see my wife and my daughter for a playdate.  One day, my daughter came home and told me that mommy made up lies about daddy with her friend and cursed both daddys out.  I couldn't take it and email her and told her to cool it and not to do it while kids are there.  My wife said all she said was true and won't apologize, her friend pretended she didn't know kids could hear (she often bad mouth others and including her husband infront of kids)... .  I told her it is not appropriate and we reached certain undrestanding.  But my wife refused to promise that she won't do it again and so I told her, you got to stop, otherwise you two shouldn't be taking kids out alone.  Needless to say, my wife went against my wish and one time she even went as far as acted as a victim calling her friend up fake crying and etc.  Anyway, and she also passed on text and email messages to her friend where I clearly expressed that they should not cultivate a toxic envrionment for kids when they are togethr.  So that was a few months ago ... .My wife kept going at it and spread more insidious lies about me and some times as usual in front of kids ... .why?  I don't get it.  Anyway, this time, they tack team me and with strings of emails accussing me things that I didn't do and honestly most of them are really the stuff that was done to me from my wife (projecting).  It came non stop, so I eventually reply with "Another harassement and abusive email. Saved!" .  In a way, through her friend's attacks, I begin to really see what my wife has been saying about me behind my back and what kind of plots that she has been hashing up against me.  Keep in mind, we got three beautiful kids ... .she holds me hostage because she knew I am prudent enough not to take actions.  This is a torture and in some kind of the way, if she is capable to full out making rumors about me and spread them to destroy me, and clearly there is an intent to gaslight and collude with another PD to manipulate the law against me ... .what should I do?  Some times, I wonder if she could go this far, it feels like she wants me dead.  I asked her if she wants to split, she won't answer me.  I said we can find a way out of this marriage and plan out the best for kids, whe won't discuss.  Someone say that she is doing this, because she wants control ... .and it has to be done in her terms and not mine.  I live in NJ ... .if you guys know any good resources around here that I should start to explore ... please let me know.  My NPDw has been active in trying to turn people against me, but most people realize that she contradicts herself and doesn't coincide with reality so they don't buy into the lies.  But everyday hearing her devaluing comments said with emotion and conviction in front of my kids and I is really affecting me ... .I am sorry if this incoherent... .just trying to get my thoughts down.  It has been a grueling weeek or so.  Any feedback is appreciated ... .

[Pou]

My wife is a NPD with ASPD.  It pains me to admit it because everytime I do ... I realize my life together with her and my kids can only go one way.  Recently, she turns up her attack tactic... .or maybe it has to do with years of her trying, now she finally succeeded in triangulating with another NPD friend of hers in harassing me.  To start, her friend's family and ours used to be friends.  Her friend who I am pretty sure has NPD has had horrible marriatal issues with her husband.  Similar problems like ours.  In any event, my wife befriended her and feeding her stuff going against me.  It is strange, in a strings of emails, her friend is supporting my wife's accussations and even stretching to the point like she witnessed them.  Keep in mind, In the past 3 plus years, I may only saw her friend 3 to 4 times, and the reason is that her friend became very polarizing.  She used to try to get me to support her beligerent ways against her husband and i always stayed out of it, so she started to only wanting to see my wife and my daughter for a playdate.  One day, my daughter came home and told me that mommy made up lies about daddy with her friend and cursed both daddys out.  I couldn't take it and email her and told her to cool it and not to do it while kids are there.  My wife said all she said was true and won't apologize, her friend pretended she didn't know kids could hear (she often bad mouth others and including her husband infront of kids)... .  I told her it is not appropriate and we reached certain undrestanding.  But my wife refused to promise that she won't do it again and so I told her, you got to stop, otherwise you two shouldn't be taking kids out alone.  Needless to say, my wife went against my wish and one time she even went as far as acted as a victim calling her friend up fake crying and etc.  Anyway, and she also passed on text and email messages to her friend where I clearly expressed that they should not cultivate a toxic envrionment for kids when they are togethr.  So that was a few months ago ... .My wife kept going at it and spread more insidious lies about me and some times as usual in front of kids ... .why?  I don't get it.  Anyway, this time, they tack team me and with strings of emails accussing me things that I didn't do and honestly most of them are really the stuff that was done to me from my wife (projecting).  It came non stop, so I eventually reply with "Another harassement and abusive email. Saved!" .  In a way, through her friend's attacks, I begin to really see what my wife has been saying about me behind my back and what kind of plots that she has been hashing up against me.  Keep in mind, we got three beautiful kids ... .she holds me hostage because she knew I am prudent enough not to take actions.  This is a torture and in some kind of the way, if she is capable to full out making rumors about me and spread them to destroy me, and clearly there is an intent to gaslight and collude with another PD to manipulate the law against me ... .what should I do?  Some times, I wonder if she could go this far, it feels like she wants me dead.  I asked her if she wants to split, she won't answer me.  I said we can find a way out of this marriage and plan out the best for kids, whe won't discuss.  Someone say that she is doing this, because she wants control ... .and it has to be done in her terms and not mine.  I live in NJ ... .if you guys know any good resources around here that I should start to explore ... please let me know.  My NPDw has been active in trying to turn people against me, but most people realize that she contradicts herself and doesn't coincide with reality so they don't buy into the lies.  But everyday hearing her devaluing comments said with emotion and conviction in front of my kids and I is really affecting me ... .I am sorry if this incoherent... .just trying to get my thoughts down.  It has been a grueling weeek or so.  Any feedback is appreciated ... .

[once removed]

hey pou 

im really sorry to hear youre going through this. it sounds exasperating and exhausting  .

making a pal to bash your spouse and feed off is one thing, dragging the children into it is sad and does damage, its certainly not okay.

you may want to share whats going on on the coparenting board, or perhaps at some point, the legal board. the resources and feedback on both are invaluable. im no lawyer, but i know you have options.

coparenting: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=9.0

legal board: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=10.0

hope this helps. we are here for you pou.

[Pou]

hey pou 

im really sorry to hear youre going through this. it sounds exasperating and exhausting  .

making a pal to bash your spouse and feed off is one thing, dragging the children into it is sad and does damage, its certainly not okay.

you may want to share whats going on on the coparenting board, or perhaps at some point, the legal board. the resources and feedback on both are invaluable. im no lawyer, but i know you have options.

coparenting: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=9.0

legal board: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=10.0

hope this helps. we are here for you pou.

Thank you for your support and direction.  I am uncertain if I am doing the right things for myself and my kids.  I have reasons to think that I am and then there are days that I feel like I am letting my "codependence" getting the best of me.

[once removed]

can you elaborate on how youre wondering if youre doing the right things for yourself and your kids and where you feel codependency is playing a role?

keep in mind, these are your children. care taking our children doesnt make us codependent

[Pou]

can you elaborate on how youre wondering if youre doing the right things for yourself and your kids and where you feel codependency is playing a role?

keep in mind, these are your children. care taking our children doesnt make us codependent

When I tell myself to just take the abuse and that I can manage the madness ... .and I have to do it to make sure that situation doesn't get out of the control.  My concern is that I only think about myself and take actions to leave.  I know very well, my NPDw is a high conflict person and she has proven many times that she is capable of making up lies and spread them, quite psychopathic.  As I started to read more and collecting her behaviors ... .I reluctantly seen many ASPD traits in her.  It will be no question in my mind she will have no trouble making up lies about me and now embolden with her colluding with her friend (honestly, not much a friend, she only colluding with her because her friend also abuses her husband, so they probably have a court strategy in place to support eacother).  My concern is the financial and psychologica drain that my kids would have to go through ... .and then I soften and stop myself from doing anything to change my situation.  Sometimes I ask myself if am just a codependent and using my kids as excuses not to take actions ... .it is a tough thing to do or not to do.  In a way, I know my NPD / ASPDw will react on imaginary situations and over react because her inability to control her inner rage ... .

[once removed]

i think your concern about your kids is justified. how old are they? im very cautious about giving advice that involves children since i am not a parent, but the effect of an unhealthy marriage is a concern too.

ask yourself point blank: can you take the abuse and manage the madness? can you prevent the situation from getting out of control?

looking further down the road, have you taken steps to document the abusive behavior in the event of a court battle?

[Pou]

i think your concern about your kids is justified. how old are they? im very cautious about giving advice that involves children since i am not a parent, but the effect of an unhealthy marriage is a concern too.

ask yourself point blank: can you take the abuse and manage the madness? can you prevent the situation from getting out of control?

looking further down the road, have you taken steps to document the abusive behavior in the event of a court battle?

I am stuck in a bind.  I know our interaction can not be ideal for kids, and yet, if I go ahead and press for change ... .giving my ASPDw high conflict personality, things may get out of hand (proabably will) and it is especially true now she has colluded another ASPD type.  Not sure how their alliance will last, but as right now, they spend lots of time on the phone and meet periodically ... .they both have common interest, which is put up an abusive game on their spouses.  I am living in a world that my ASPDw created ... .and she is working her way to get everyone she can get her hands on to convert and see her world where she is a victim of the crimes that she committed against me, you can say she is flipping it and projecting her abusive behaviors and flat out accusing me of such.  I realize that I really mean nothing to her, she has no feelings for me, despite the years that I thought we were building a life together with memories that we created.  Now, I have to tell myself everyday that they were not real and I must accept that.

In terms of managing the abuse, I have very good control.  I grew up in a tough neighborhood and blessed with a strong built, yet I avoided having a singe fight and never got into trouble, did well in school, and never got in trouble with the law... of course until the love of my life 5 years ago made up stuff and got me arrested (she was arrested too, the irony), but charges were dropped.  I thought she would change for the mistake she made ... but because she is psychopathic, she failed to empathize how important it is to me to be a good citizen and a good person, she sees that as a weakness and continue to use that to her advantage.  Her abusive and devaluing comments are rampant infront of kids and among friends and family, now behind my back as well ... they do surface and I do find out.  Yes, her bad behaviors does affect my ability to focus and does depress me, as long as i am in this relationship ... .i feel injured everyday.  But then I weigh the immediate consequences and realizing there maybe collateral damages ... .perhaps it is the cautious side of me that have never gotten into any type of trouble before, it holds me back from doing something about it.

No doubt in my mind, dealing with a ASPD, things don't just improve.  I know she is scheming something ... .something to hurt me justified and motivated by things that I don't understand.  I have pieced together an evolution of her escalating abuse.  But really the best solution is not to ask why and just get out of it.  Again, compounded by having three kids... .it is more complex.  I blame myself often that why didn't I see it coming before having child number one ... ., why did I go along with child number 2 ... and what about number 3?  what was I thinking?  they are age 7, 4 and 2.  16 more years before I can distant myself from all these madness?  that is a long time away ... .I am counting the days ... .no other exit plan seems to be less damaging.  But at some point, she will rage and push us all over the cliff ... .then the choice won't me mine and I only worry about how to make sure kids are in best situation as possible.  I know ASPD will put herself first, all her anger and emptiness, will be taken out on me ... .and to fill her void, that would be her ONLY thought. 

I try to read up as much as I can about NPD, ASPD and socio / psychopath.  I try to detach in the middle of this madness.  I manage by focusing on my own sanity.  I know I am not doing all the right things ... .there is a daily flux in figuring out what would be best for my kids.  Her dysregulation often targets me and there are a few times when she did on my oldest, but still manageable.  But her making an issue over nothing and devaluing me infront of kids, did bring sadness and questions from my oldest ... .she asked me why, and I told her that people are different and she is too young to understand lots of things now, but when she gets older, she will understand.  I try to watch out and correct any confusions generated by my ASPD wife, making things black look white and verse versa.  For a child, it is very hard to understand, I think a child has innate trust in parents are always good and always do the best things for the family.  They ought to ... .but when this orientation is broken, they become confused and affects their brain development.  So I watch out for that ... .and do the very limited that I can do to adjust, knowing they are still too young to understand, but they will be affected ... unknowingly so. 

I know that I am not perfect and when I got married, I was looking for someone who would find the faults (justified) that I have and help me become a better person as we grow old together.  I didn't realize that she would make up things about me an devalue me in private, in public, behind my back and sabotage my opportunities.  It is pathological ... it is like there is this virus in her head, designed to destroy her closest family member.  I don't have the answers to this.  I am still looking for a good exit plan ... .at the end of the day, I want everyone to have a soft landing and we can all move on with our lives and do what we meant to do, instead of living in a dark world that my ASPDw created and force us all to live in it. 

[once removed]

"I realize that I really mean nothing to her, she has no feelings for me, despite the years that I thought we were building a life together with memories that we created.  Now, I have to tell myself everyday that they were not real and I must accept that."

ill admit i dont have a lot of experience with ASPD, but i do think its more complicated than that. you do not necessarily have to tell yourself the most painful narrative possible.

" Her abusive and devaluing comments are rampant infront of kids and among friends and family, now behind my back as well ... they do surface and I do find out.  Yes, her bad behaviors does affect my ability to focus and does depress me, as long as i am in this relationship ... .i feel injured everyday.  But then I weigh the immediate consequences and realizing there maybe collateral damages ... .perhaps it is the cautious side of me that have never gotten into any type of trouble before, it holds me back from doing something about it."

it sounds like you are describing FOG. more specifically, the F of that equation, which is fear; understandable fear. as you describe, this is a high conflict person, and sounds highly vindictive too. im not an expert with the family court system, but i know that often these kind of dynamics are transparent.

"Again, compounded by having three kids... .it is more complex.  I blame myself often that why didn't I see it coming before having child number one ... ., why did I go along with child number 2 ... and what about number 3?  what was I thinking?  they are age 7, 4 and 2."

you had children with the love of your life. shes a volatile lover. you had certain expectations; that she would be a better wife and mother.

to be frank, i think youre managing this, against all odds, brilliantly. youre not escalating, which your partner may be anticipating and trying to incite. documenting the entirety of this behavior (abuse), i think is the most useful advice i can possibly give you. i can ASSURE you that judges do not smile upon a parent that, to the children, and publicly, berates their partner.

and youre being a heck of a parent in the mean time. what mom is doing with the kids is reprehensible. the vast majority of the time, young children understand this, or come to, ultimately.

what do you think would be the best outcome for them?

[Pou]

"I realize that I really mean nothing to her, she has no feelings for me, despite the years that I thought we were building a life together with memories that we created.  Now, I have to tell myself everyday that they were not real and I must accept that."

ill admit i dont have a lot of experience with ASPD, but i do think its more complicated than that. you do not necessarily have to tell yourself the most painful narrative possible.

" Her abusive and devaluing comments are rampant infront of kids and among friends and family, now behind my back as well ... they do surface and I do find out.  Yes, her bad behaviors does affect my ability to focus and does depress me, as long as i am in this relationship ... .i feel injured everyday.  But then I weigh the immediate consequences and realizing there maybe collateral damages ... .perhaps it is the cautious side of me that have never gotten into any type of trouble before, it holds me back from doing something about it."

it sounds like you are describing FOG. more specifically, the F of that equation, which is fear; understandable fear. as you describe, this is a high conflict person, and sounds highly vindictive too. im not an expert with the family court system, but i know that often these kind of dynamics are transparent.

"Again, compounded by having three kids... .it is more complex.  I blame myself often that why didn't I see it coming before having child number one ... ., why did I go along with child number 2 ... and what about number 3?  what was I thinking?  they are age 7, 4 and 2."

you had children with the love of your life. shes a volatile lover. you had certain expectations; that she would be a better wife and mother.

to be frank, i think youre managing this, against all odds, brilliantly. youre not escalating, which your partner may be anticipating and trying to incite. documenting the entirety of this behavior (abuse), i think is the most useful advice i can possibly give you. i can ASSURE you that judges do not smile upon a parent that, to the children, and publicly, berates their partner.

and youre being a heck of a parent in the mean time. what mom is doing with the kids is reprehensible. the vast majority of the time, young children understand this, or come to, ultimately.

what do you think would be the best outcome for them?

Hi Once Removed, Thank you for your kind words.  I feel like I am second guessing myself all the time as how I am managing the situation.  Am I doing the best for my children?  I remain everyday, at the end of the day, that I am ... .at least in my heart and my brain told me that each day I am picking the best option possible for them.  Kids intrinsically love their parents ... .and they trust us to love them and to protect them.  They feel safe when both parents show a strong bond.  I am very upset that I can not give them that ... .when I tried to, my wife show obvious disdain and putdowns in front of them, which I can not control.  So I detach and put up a wall... .just so the kids kind of get that there is no devaluing tolerated in any relationship, although I am powerless to stop her from doing it, but I make it very clear that I won't take it.  Hopefully, kids get it and won't accept that from their friends or love ones in the future and do not pass on the negative behaviors.  I notice my daughter sometimes pass on that "devaluing" attitude to her brother and I immediately correct her behavior.  Happily to say that she changed within a day ... .and I am just glad that I was able to change her behavior at this young age.  Kids learn from parents ... .unfortunately, kids do pick up bad behaviors easier than good ones ... .because often bad behaviors seems to promote dominance rather than cohesiveness ... .and at this age, kids are looking for their pecking order in a family so they will pick up negatives easily. 

As your comment about me gravitating the worst case of ASPD, because I come to recognize my wife really has no feeling for me.  I am pretty sure of that.  It is not like one day I woke up and decided that is the case.  It took years ... .and I really get it now.  I will give you an example.  When we had our first daughter, I took tons of pictures of her and my daughter, with families, her and mine.  She never volunteer to take a picture of me and my daugther and avoided it at all cost.  She make up excuses that she doesn't have a camera, so I got her a nice camera.  Then she says she needs a manual, so I got her a book.  And then she says that she need to take lessons to use it.  And then she rages on how I forbid her from getting a camera and so on.  Meanwhile, I helped her pick the best camera phone ever made ... .so just in the last 3 months she went on photo and filming spree on my kids, all avoided having me in the picture.  To make it even more ridiculous, for the past 5 years, she would use the camera phone take multiple pictures of her mother, her sister's famiy and my kids together, but avoided taking pictures of me or when my kids are with my mom and my sisters families.  It was so open... that my sisters questioned.  Yet, she dare to reach out to my sister to bash me and emailed in a such manipulative fashion ... .gas lighting and all.  She really think she has a superior intelligence than everyone else and super natural charm.  weird thing was that her mom would also take pictures of her and my kids and purposely leaving me out of the pics, and my wife seem to be perfectly fine with it.  This also has been going on for around 7 years, ever since her mom moves into our area.  Anyway, so this has go on for so long until a  year ago, I said enough and decided to detach by purposely stop taking pictures of her and my kids ... .only when we take a family photo, then everyone is in it.  It is so weird that if I had tell this story to anyone who never experienced PD, they would think I am crazy.  This is just an example how odd their way of thinking is ... .obviously, my kids will be affected.  So I have to make a note that when they grow older, I got to make sure they understand this kind of behavior is not acceptable if you are to build a family with trust.  I suspect that my ASPDw and her mom (NPD?) were damaged when both very young and never snapped out the mental immaturity.  I have no option but to detach, otherwise, I could be fueling the fire.  Since they project every bad behaviors onto me.  My ASPDw would project every single bad behviors and thoughts that she have onto me.  OFten leaving me confused and try to defend myself, only when I sat down later and really fully grasp the matery of this gaslighting and projections that she has.  I don't get why she does it.  But I think she may have completely lost her love for me first probably having stepped out of our marriage.  My speculation is that she proabaly have had affair with married men and knowing how secretive she is, she probably like the thrill of doing it and then she comes around and rage against me, because I probably in her eyes that why am I so stupid not picking it up.  Normal person's guilt is her thrill for getting away and adding abuse on top of it.  I recall that when we first dated, I told her how I was hurt because my ex had cheated on me.  She proceeded to berate me how stupid that I was to let her cheated on me.  I now look back and connecting the dots and things all make sense seeing her for what she is today.  Not that I want to look at my situation and "seemingly" putting myself down ... .I realize that if I don't face my reality, it will catch up on me.  Even when I say that I face it, in actuality, it is difficult to do it. 

Your words are very positive and I really appreciate them.  I like your view of the court system and that would give me some hope.  Honestly, I do worry for the worst outcomes ... .I fear it because of my children.  We don't have intimacy for 3 years now and before then it was far and in between ... .I detach by not getting on the same bed with her.  Bad examples for my kids, but hopefully I will be able to revive their view of what a real good relationship should be like.  I think finding love is like winning lottery tickets.  People do win lottery with different amounts of prize.  And there are many losers too.  But you still have to pick 6 numbers to play the game in order to win.  It is possible, but don't get disappointed in the process.  As for me, I would be happy to be by myself one day.  I am so burned that I will need a long time to heal ... .not sure if I can trust anyone again in a intimate relationship, but pretty certain would be happy alone for a while. 

Life is funny ... just when I thought I had it figure out, it teaches me a lesson that I really would not have wished on my worst enemy.  Then I am so grateful to have 3 wonderful kids ... .in that regard, I am so fortunate.  I can not complain when compared to many ... .although intolerable ... .I try to keep it all in perspective. 

Thank you for your feedback.  Hope karma points will be distributed fairly.