Trying to make sense of certain interactions

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have posted here a week or so ago and am still in the limbo of decision making. I probably will be for some time as I just started a new position at work and other life stressors (family) are very high right now. I don't think I can make a break and not lose myself entirely.

While I am still with my BPDh I am trying to learn to make sense of things and improve what I can in terms of my behavior.

We had an interaction a couple weeks ago (detailed in previous post) that involved him losing it big time and threatening our lives with a gun while intoxicated. I did antagonize prior to it reaching that point because I had just become fed up with being called stupid for having anxiety over a close friend of mine being in town whom he fell in love with and tried to leave me for last year. I said some nasty, REALLY nasty things. Now in that case I fully was aware I had done wrong by letting myself act in a way I never had before and letting myself unleash on him like that. I felt deep down it was not ok, though it did not excuse in ANY way his violent and dangerous reaction.

Since then he has been very cold to me on and off and is still very hurt that I said some things (such as I wish I had never met him). I have done my best to keep the peace because he is clearly not stable.

Now last night I am really unable to clearly determine if it was my words that were not ok, his reaction, or both.

I am looking at going on a short trip for a family wedding at the end of the month. He has expressed he does not want to go multiple times. This stands out to me as we normally do not travel without each other. Last time (6 or so years ago) I visited this family without him, he took a female friend out for dinner and drinks and she stayed the night at our place, which he lied to me about. She contacted me and told me nothing happened and I didnt even know she had come over. Needless to say we almost broke up and it took years to trust him again. That event messed me up pretty bad, esp considering he kept this girl in his life for years after

I was becoming anxious over the last few days about him not wanting to go out of town with me and remembering that event. I have learned in our couples therapy to not let something fester if I realize its not going to go away and just communicate it. So after it bothering me for a few days and him not giving me any serious answers as to what he would do if he stayed home and why he wanted to (play poker with the cats is what he kept saying... .) I decided to just ask.

We were in the kitchen, him doing dishes, me making dinner, and talking about the potential trip and I just asked, "Is there any ulterior motive you have for wanting to stay home and not come with me?" We were just chatting and it didnt come out as a harsh question (I think), I just asked in a casual manner. He knew it was in reference to him bringing the girl over for the night last time I went without him and he got very angry very quickly. Told me to ___ off, he is tired of not being trusted, that I cornered him while he was doing something nice and helpful, and he called me a 'twat' a couple times amongst cussing at me and talking down to me. Kept telling me I had insulted him and he was sick and tired of it and was losing his patience with me.

I stopped making dinner and told him calmly that the way he was talking to me was completely unacceptable, that cussing at me and calling me names was in no way ok and that I wouldn't tolerate it. I left and went in the other room for about half hour. When I came out he had calmed down, apologized for his reaction, and gave me actual reasons for why he didnt want to go (which made sense and helped alleviate my anxiety). He was still upset with me for insulting him so badly and bringing up old stuff he doesn't want to ever hear about again. He drank a lot, which I tried to calmly suggest he not do, and hes been very standoffish and clearly still irritated with me today for not trusting him.

Now I am confused. I really did not try to accuse him or do it in a mean way and I only brought this thing up because it was something that I knew was going to continue to eat away at me and cause problems if I didn't just address it and communicate. However, it did reference an old incident and I can see how it came off insulting. I can understand how having a wife who does not fully trust him would be frustrating as well, even if it is his own fault for lying about his interactions dozens of times with other women. I can see that how it just would get old and be offensive at a certain point. And he was indeed doing something nice by cleaning up the dishes for me, something I didnt even ask him to do.

He did not break anything or get violent. I suppose I did somewhat corner him in the kitchen doing dishes, though that was not my intention, we just happened to be in there talking about the trip and it just came out in conversation. He did apologize later too.

Was I really insulting? If so, how can I handle said situations better in the future? I am still overcoming the trust issues we have but try my best to give him a chance to be trustworthy. I dont go through his stuff or interrogate him about everything. If something bothers me I simply ask. If I need to see something, I simply ask. Its only been a month or so since the last time there was something inappropriate that happened (he gave an old coworker who is barely out of her teens (he is 36) and tried to convince him to leave me his new contact info when he changed jobs) and I am having a hard time with trust but am really trying. I am not sure how to do things differently unless I just leave or blindly trust, which I cant do anymore after dozens of times, my brain just wont let me blindly trust him.

Am I an insensitive jerk? I really dont know but I don't want to be if I am! I want to learn to communicate effectively and in a way that won't piss him off, if that is even possible.

[broth88]

I have posted here a week or so ago and am still in the limbo of decision making. I probably will be for some time as I just started a new position at work and other life stressors (family) are very high right now. I don't think I can make a break and not lose myself entirely.

While I am still with my BPDh I am trying to learn to make sense of things and improve what I can in terms of my behavior.

We had an interaction a couple weeks ago (detailed in previous post) that involved him losing it big time and threatening our lives with a gun while intoxicated. I did antagonize prior to it reaching that point because I had just become fed up with being called stupid for having anxiety over a close friend of mine being in town whom he fell in love with and tried to leave me for last year. I said some nasty, REALLY nasty things. Now in that case I fully was aware I had done wrong by letting myself act in a way I never had before and letting myself unleash on him like that. I felt deep down it was not ok, though it did not excuse in ANY way his violent and dangerous reaction.

Since then he has been very cold to me on and off and is still very hurt that I said some things (such as I wish I had never met him). I have done my best to keep the peace because he is clearly not stable.

Now last night I am really unable to clearly determine if it was my words that were not ok, his reaction, or both.

I am looking at going on a short trip for a family wedding at the end of the month. He has expressed he does not want to go multiple times. This stands out to me as we normally do not travel without each other. Last time (6 or so years ago) I visited this family without him, he took a female friend out for dinner and drinks and she stayed the night at our place, which he lied to me about. She contacted me and told me nothing happened and I didnt even know she had come over. Needless to say we almost broke up and it took years to trust him again. That event messed me up pretty bad, esp considering he kept this girl in his life for years after

I was becoming anxious over the last few days about him not wanting to go out of town with me and remembering that event. I have learned in our couples therapy to not let something fester if I realize its not going to go away and just communicate it. So after it bothering me for a few days and him not giving me any serious answers as to what he would do if he stayed home and why he wanted to (play poker with the cats is what he kept saying... .) I decided to just ask.

We were in the kitchen, him doing dishes, me making dinner, and talking about the potential trip and I just asked, "Is there any ulterior motive you have for wanting to stay home and not come with me?" We were just chatting and it didnt come out as a harsh question (I think), I just asked in a casual manner. He knew it was in reference to him bringing the girl over for the night last time I went without him and he got very angry very quickly. Told me to ___ off, he is tired of not being trusted, that I cornered him while he was doing something nice and helpful, and he called me a 'twat' a couple times amongst cussing at me and talking down to me. Kept telling me I had insulted him and he was sick and tired of it and was losing his patience with me.

I stopped making dinner and told him calmly that the way he was talking to me was completely unacceptable, that cussing at me and calling me names was in no way ok and that I wouldn't tolerate it. I left and went in the other room for about half hour. When I came out he had calmed down, apologized for his reaction, and gave me actual reasons for why he didnt want to go (which made sense and helped alleviate my anxiety). He was still upset with me for insulting him so badly and bringing up old stuff he doesn't want to ever hear about again. He drank a lot, which I tried to calmly suggest he not do, and hes been very standoffish and clearly still irritated with me today for not trusting him.

Now I am confused. I really did not try to accuse him or do it in a mean way and I only brought this thing up because it was something that I knew was going to continue to eat away at me and cause problems if I didn't just address it and communicate. However, it did reference an old incident and I can see how it came off insulting. I can understand how having a wife who does not fully trust him would be frustrating as well, even if it is his own fault for lying about his interactions dozens of times with other women. I can see that how it just would get old and be offensive at a certain point. And he was indeed doing something nice by cleaning up the dishes for me, something I didnt even ask him to do.

He did not break anything or get violent. I suppose I did somewhat corner him in the kitchen doing dishes, though that was not my intention, we just happened to be in there talking about the trip and it just came out in conversation. He did apologize later too.

Was I really insulting? If so, how can I handle said situations better in the future? I am still overcoming the trust issues we have but try my best to give him a chance to be trustworthy. I dont go through his stuff or interrogate him about everything. If something bothers me I simply ask. If I need to see something, I simply ask. Its only been a month or so since the last time there was something inappropriate that happened (he gave an old coworker who is barely out of her teens (he is 36) and tried to convince him to leave me his new contact info when he changed jobs) and I am having a hard time with trust but am really trying. I am not sure how to do things differently unless I just leave or blindly trust, which I cant do anymore after dozens of times, my brain just wont let me blindly trust him.

Am I an insensitive jerk? I really dont know but I don't want to be if I am! I want to learn to communicate effectively and in a way that won't piss him off, if that is even possible.

[vortex of confusion]

Am I an insensitive jerk? I really dont know but I don't want to be if I am! I want to learn to communicate effectively and in a way that won't piss him off, if that is even possible.

 

It sounds like you were in a no win situation. . .your bring it up nicely and he gets mad or you don't bring it up and you stew on it and things get worse.

There are some really great communication tools on this site. I know that some of them can be found on the staying board. You might try hopping over there and posting to get some suggestions on how to put a stop to things getting ugly.

It doesn't sound like you are an insensitive jerk at all. It sounds like you have every reason not to trust him. One of the things that helped me put things in perspective is hearing that a lot of times a person with BPD or BPD traits lives in the now. How they are feeling or what they are doing NOW is the gauge for everything. When my husband was being wonderful and awesome, he didn't understand why I didn't trust him on certain issues. I could validate that he was being awesome today but then I had to try to find ways to communicate that I was still feeling hurt and untrustworthy because of past issues. Sometimes, there is no good way to bring up a subject.

The most important thing is that you protect yourself. Make sure that you are safe and that he doesn't call you names and that you are not in any physical danger. Once you take care of that, then you can try to communicate with him. Your safety (emotional and physical) is priority number ONE!

[once removed]

hey broth88 

vortex of confusion gave you some good advice. i would have a hard time trusting this person too. you said he gave you valid reasons that he didnt want to go on this trip. do you mind sharing some of them?

"However, it did reference an old incident and I can see how it came off insulting. I can understand how having a wife who does not fully trust him would be frustrating as well, even if it is his own fault for lying about his interactions dozens of times with other women. I can see that how it just would get old and be offensive at a certain point."

good for you. youre on the right track. i think your question may have been perceived as an accusation, and it will help you to remember that bringing up past indiscretions may trigger shame for a pwBPD, which will then likely be projected back at you, which might explain his outburst. you made a wise move in laying down a boundary and stepping away, and its good that he apologized, explained himself, and the conversation from that point sounds like it was mostly productive. its also good that youre reflecting, and trying to choose your words wisely.

when a person breaks our trust, its upon them to demonstrate that they seek to regain it. we should make every effort to acknowledge those efforts, but foolish to simply give our trust away. do you feel he has made efforts to demonstrate trustworthiness?

[Circle]

I can understand how having a wife who does not fully trust him would be frustrating as well, even if it is his own fault for lying about his interactions dozens of times with other women. I can see that how it just would get old and be offensive at a certain point. And he was indeed doing something nice by cleaning up the dishes for me, something I didnt even ask him to do.

I'm out of my relationship. We are still friends. I am working and was contemplating all of the insanity that I dealt with. All of the times that I spoke clearly and was treated trashy in return. It's all over now, but I am blown away by what a confusing mass of information has been left behind, in my mind.

It sounds to me like you are being more than fair. Unfortunately, as displayed by experience, your husband doesn't play fair in return. You know that.

I knew the same thing. I came to a point in my thinking where I realized I had to accept that I was with a liar. And, I still compulsively felt the need to ask questions that were trust based. Maybe I was lucky, or maybe I was unlucky; factors other than lying pushed me out of the situation. Gaslighting has these strange effects on the mind-it's crazy making. Being told one thing and seeing another manifest. You can only take so much of that sort of thing. You've got to trust your gut. You've seen what this person is made of. I'm not giving you any advice. You have to make the tough decisions. You can do it though. It's a battle for your own sanity.

[broth88]

Thank you all for the kind words.

I will look into the tools more available on this site. I am just starting most my research on BPD the last few weeks and have a lot more to go, even if we divorce, I would like to be very educated in this to understand some of the things I blame myself for.

His reasoning for not wanting to go on the trip was mostly financial. Its a small town across the country and very expensive to fly to and would take 4 days of driving to get to so that option is out as well. He is trying to pay off his credit card since he started a better paying job and both our registrations and car insurance are due either last month or this month and so even just me flying will have to come out of savings or be put on credit. To him, flying to see my cousin who he doesn't know well get married makes no sense financially and to ask for the time off work from the job he just started a month or so ago isn't worth it with his limited vacation time and it being their busy season.

I agree with all the above reasons and seeing as I refuse to ever spend money that I can't pay off right away (unless big purchases like a car/house), it really doesn't make sense. I just figured it being a wedding and a chance to meet more of my family he would come along and it would come out of my savings, not go on his credit card.

As far as him trying to rebuild trust... .well he tries sometimes but for the most part he has just become more honest. When confronted with something or asked a question, he is honest about it but his behavior itself hasn't changed a whole lot. He did finally last year cut off contact with my friend he had been engaging behind my back for years and no longer takes lunches 1x1 with women who either he likes or that like him. He still keeps in contact though with a couple people I have expressed great disdain for, as they both have made it clear as day they are interested in him and do not care that he is married. One was even a friend of mine who stopped being my friend soon as she started working with him and spending alone time with him. He is honest about their interactions but because he isn't into them I am called stupid and told I am controlling for asking him to cut those girls off.

I do not trust him much. With some things I do. I trust he would never physically cheat on me and I trust him with our finances and in most day-to-day things. I just do not trust him emotionally or to respect anything I ask of him he doesn't agree with me on. He's made leaps and bounds of progress in opening up and taking a step back and looking at his actions in the last year and a half but still its pretty bad. Because I see progress I have kept holding on and hoping he will continue to make small steps forward but eventually I am going to tire of it all and if he does certain deal breakers I jsut can't do it anymore.

When I take a step back and look at my situation I feel like an idiot. I am only 26, have financial independence and a great career, I am fit, attractive, and pretty well liked everywhere I go, I am kind and generous, and for the most part think I make a good partner, though I know I am not perfect and have much to learn still. I feel like if I went out into the world I could achieve pretty much whatever I want to and find someone who would not have BPD and not treat me like this. I just don't know if I will ever find someone I love as much as this man and I'll lose his family which mean the world to me and are unlike any people I have ever met. His small improvements keep giving me hope I dont have to lose anything or go through the pain of divorce but my eyes are also starting to open that life doesnt have to be this way if I am willing to lose the positives that I have as well. Pros and cons argument and I can't decide which is worth more, getting out, or fighting for this still.

[vortex of confusion]

When I take a step back and look at my situation I feel like an idiot. I am only 26, have financial independence and a great career, I am fit, attractive, and pretty well liked everywhere I go, I am kind and generous, and for the most part think I make a good partner, though I know I am not perfect and have much to learn still. I feel like if I went out into the world I could achieve pretty much whatever I want to and find someone who would not have BPD and not treat me like this. I just don't know if I will ever find someone I love as much as this man and I'll lose his family which mean the world to me and are unlike any people I have ever met. His small improvements keep giving me hope I dont have to lose anything or go through the pain of divorce but my eyes are also starting to open that life doesnt have to be this way if I am willing to lose the positives that I have as well. Pros and cons argument and I can't decide which is worth more, getting out, or fighting for this still.

You have a lot going for you! 

One of the questions that I like to pose is, ":)o you ever see yourself wanting to have kids?" If the answer to that question is yes, then think long and hard about whether or not you would want to parent a child with this man. If the answer is no, then don't worry about putting that into the equation.

One thing that I have read time and time again is that a lot of people that are in relationships w/a pwBPD leave the relationship only to find somebody similar. I have been doing a lot of work on myself. The more work I do on me, the better my husband behaves. It is a long slow process. If I knew what I know now before we had kids together, I might have seriously considered leaving.

How long have the two of you been together? How difficult would it be to separate assets? In addition to the emotional stuff, it helps to look at things through the lens of practicality.