Would you go?

[TheRealJongoBong]

My wife is uBPD/uNPD.  We've being going through the usual ups and downs of this type of relationship for years, at present we are not sleeping together and are mostly just room mates. Last year my wife and I met someone who had gone to Turkey and this made her want to go too.  I just nodded and smiled, and figured that this idea would end where all the other ones do: lost in the fog of the rapidly shifting directions of our relationship.

However, a few weeks back she actually purchased plane tickets so I started reading up about Turkey, where to go, what to do, etc. I was getting ready to discuss hotel reservations and she comes in with this bombshell:  "I decided I don't want to go to Turkey with you. You can find someone else to go with or I will. In fact, I don't want to be in a relationship with you at all". I did an OK job of holding together, but finally I cam out with something along the lines of "what have I done that you feel you need to treat me this way?" and her answer "I don't have to explain anything to you" set me off and I decided to end the conversation.

Two days later (yesterday) she now comes back and says she wants me to go to Turkey with her after all. I pointed out that two days ago she had the completely opposite idea, and asked her why she might have changed her mind. Her answer "I don't have to explain anything to you" didn't set me off this time as I found the entire situation too surreal and ridiculous to take seriously.

So my question to you all. Would you go or not go?  I can certainly see that if I refuse, her feelings of abandonment will go into overdrive and chaos will ensue. If I do go I can see that this might actually make her more comfortable and things might go fairly smoothly, at least up until the end of the trip where she won't have exclusive "control" any more. At present I'm leaning towards going for a personal growth point of view - it will give me an opportunity to practice not being manipulated by her. It might also help to improve the relationship some.

Is this a healthy thing to do or am I being led down the garden path again?

[Sadly]

Tricky one. My  sort of ex asked me to go to see his parents with him, his father is very ill, we would be staying at his house for the weekend. The day before we had a huge fallout because he got upset about some trivial thing I said and on leaving, before slamming the door told me to forget about our weekend. On the Friday morning he set off without me but at 3 in the afternoon called me as if nothing had happened and suggested I come up. 5 hours drive later I got there and the next day he ripped me to shreds publicly. He said he wished I had never come and why did I bother? Then we got back to his fathers and he was as nice as anything to me.

It is all a complete head **ck and desperately upsetting. If you do go be prepared for the same. Personally I wouldn't go, or I would go on my own and tell her her behaviour is intolerable. That is my intention the next time I am asked to go somewhere with him. Mind you, they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions don't they Good luck with whatever you decide.

[once removed]

hey jongo  

i dont know if id go or not go if i was in your situation. your situation is unique and that should be respected. i think its best to ask yourself a few questions, check your motivations (which sound reasonable to me) and figure out what you want to do, for you.

first of all, your partner aside, would you like to go to turkey?

what will the arrangement be? i assume you will be sharing a room. what if you didnt? if you didnt, would she renege on the whole trip?

how long will your stay be?

do you fight a lot? would the trip make you more or less likely to fight?

is it possible she will change her mind again?

probably lots more im not thinking of. i dont think it would be healthy or unhealthy, i just think you should fully consider all possibilities  .

[TheRealJongoBong]

hey jongo  

i dont know if id go or not go if i was in your situation. your situation is unique and that should be respected. i think its best to ask yourself a few questions, check your motivations (which sound reasonable to me) and figure out what you want to do, for you.

first of all, your partner aside, would you like to go to turkey?

what will the arrangement be? i assume you will be sharing a room. what if you didnt? if you didnt, would she renege on the whole trip?

how long will your stay be?

do you fight a lot? would the trip make you more or less likely to fight?

is it possible she will change her mind again?

probably lots more im not thinking of. i dont think it would be healthy or unhealthy, i just think you should fully consider all possibilities  .

Would I like to go to Turkey? Yes, it would be very interesting.

what will the arrangement be? It would be whatever my controlling uBPD wants because it's not worth fighting over

how long will your stay be? It would be for two weeks. Not so long.

do you fight a lot?  I don't, but she does continually

is it possible she will change her mind again? In fact she just did. Now she wants a divorce. I think I can accomodate that.

[OnceConfused]

Now she wants a divorce. ... .

Is this a pattern of her in the past?

Turkey is a very interesting place as I just came back from there for 1 week. So much ancient history to absorb. If you go, I suggest you check with FEZ travel website or Viator.com for multiday tour from Istanbul to the western side of Turkey. WE took a tour of the algean sea cities for 7 days for 750 per person with hotel and bus included. Great time. It is safe . Don't get too close to the east or south east where Turkey connects with syria, or Iran/Irak. Our tour guide is Ergun Akkan, very good guy so ask for him when you book the tour through Fez travel. They will pick you up from the airport to the hotel in Istanbul with 2 days there then you will travel 6 days trough the western side of Turkey. They will also take you back to the airport. Transport fee included (of course you give the bus driver some tips about $5). Traffic to the airport could be bad so make sure they pick you up 3 to 4 hours in advance.

I guess you have traveled with your wife before. Had those trips enjoyable or very much a pain in the neck with her changing attitude?

[JQ]

hi Jongo

Welcome back to the group ... .I see you've had about 21 post here. You seem to have done some homework on BPD and that they're behavior is like that of a toddler of 3. I can see a three year old saying something ... ."You're not the boss of me" "I don't have to explain myself to you" as they stomp their feet in defiance which is kinda what I see here. You admitted to being manipulated by her so my question is have you practice putting in any boundaries at all at this point? From the sounds of things she's really flipping back and forth deregulating often & to the extremes. So your question, "do you think she'll change her mind again?" is mute. From my humble opinion it's not a matter of if but when and you need to be prepared for that. Think your responses through, what you're going to say, the boundaries that you're going to set when it does happen.

Bigger question remain is that this situation is bigger then just a trip to Turkey ... .which by the way being recently retired military I wouldn't go sight seeing because of the ISIS situation, with foreign fighters interring Iraq & Syria from Turkey & looking to make a name for themselves on Youtube ... .but that's just me. I have no idea where you are in the world or your thoughts on the subject. AS far as the trip, there is a lot of history and great places to experience & see, so personal growth isn't out of the question ... .how much personal growth can you do while managing your s/oBPD is another question.

So like most others who have BPD they are control freaks and deregulate when they're not in control, anxiety levels rise, stress rises, and they rage out in anger not unlike a 3 year old who doesn't get they're way. for your own mental health and improving the health of the relationship some sort of boundaries should IMHO needs to be put in place.  There are resources here and other places that help put in those boundaries and since you've admitted that she manipulates you those same resources will help you gain some self respect by following through with the consequences of stepping out of those boundaries. If you continue to rage at me and disrespect me in this manner then I will do xyz until you can apologize to me for your behavior. But you have to be READY for the sh!tstorm that will come about for standing up for yourself. But evidence suggest that those with BPD crave, need, require boundaries since they didn't have any growing up for what ever reason. You now have to be the adult and put them in place and now seems to be a good place to start with something small. They have to learn that there are consequences good or bad for the choices they make. You decide where the first baby step needs to be ... .then once that's in place & seems to be working, insert another boundary that you believe is needed, and so on. If nothing else you'll be happier for standing up for yourself regardless of what the s/o does & that kinda of personal growth is worth so much more to me personally.

Are you familiar with validation? Projection and other terms in the BPD world?  When she talks to you are you listening to the words or the manner of how she says it? What's the real meaning of what she's saying? Why is she really saying "I don't have to explain myself to you".  It seems that she uses the phrase a lot ... .jus saying  

Let us know some more details if you care to share ... .how far out is the trip? boundaries, anything else you care to share. You know that we certainly don't judge here and maybe your experience you tell us will help someone else with an answer or someone can help you with another answer ... .above all we certainly don't judge... .we're here for support for those who know first hand what living and loving with someone with BPD is like.

JQ

[TheRealJongoBong]

My wife has thought for the past 6 years that I have been cheating on her with other men. She got this revelation from a dream 6 years ago. Everytime I'm a tiny bit late or any change in my routine occurs she thinks I'm doing it with the boys again.  A week ago I took my wedding ring off because I was splitting wood and did not want to risk an amputation. She noticed and, bam! she thinks it's buttsex time again.

I've frankly had it.

[JQ]

My wife has thought for the past 6 years that I have been cheating on her with other men. She got this revelation from a dream 6 years ago. Everytime I'm a tiny bit late or any change in my routine occurs she thinks I'm doing it with the boys again.  A week ago I took my wedding ring off because I was splitting wood and did not want to risk an amputation. She noticed and, bam! she thinks it's buttsex time again.

I've frankly had it.

Jongo,

It's known that s/o with BPD feels extreme abandonment whether it's real or perceived in a dream. And when they feel abandon they lash out, rage with all kinds of nonsense behavioral things like that of a 3 year old. BPD's also have an extreme need of control ... .so if you or anyone for that matter in a relationship with a BPD is the slightest bit late for what ever the reason they feel  that you're off with someone else doing something that you're not suppose to be doing. I have had that situation more than once with my exBPD gf2. The first exBPDgf #1 was ALWAYS thinking i was running amuck & bedding several women ... .agh if only it was true      I'm kidding of course ... .come one you have to have a since of humor when you're in a relationship with a BPD. SO your situation is no different then anyone else here with a s/o BPD. My mother is a BPD and OMFG when I wasn't where I was suppose to be regardless of the situation ... .I was the redheaded ass step child.

So, have you or her been in any type of therapy? Counseling? Why do you want to stay in the relationship? What other symptoms of BPD does she have? 

JQ

[scgator]

My wife has thought for the past 6 years that I have been cheating on her with other men. She got this revelation from a dream 6 years ago. Everytime I'm a tiny bit late or any change in my routine occurs she thinks I'm doing it with the boys again.  A week ago I took my wedding ring off because I was splitting wood and did not want to risk an amputation. She noticed and, bam! she thinks it's buttsex time again.

I've frankly had it.

Jongo, I get this one totally. Because I don't want to be FWB with my uBPDexgf then I just must be gay. Also, when she kept digging around trying to find out who I was cheating on her with (never happened but you know the story) she eventually realized I didn't sleep with the women she thought so I must have been bi or gay and having sex with guys. It was laughable.

As far as the trip goes, I was in a similar situation and my choice to not go basically ended the relationship. The games, gaslighting, accusations, abuse had been ramping up before the trip. Anyway, I ended up being passive-aggressive about it and so was she, loading her car and getting ready to leave without me, I said I'd just go visit my parents then (I wasn't going to stay home and have to hear about how many people I must have slept with while she was gone) because I was not going to play this game with her (I didn't say that part.) Also, I had lost about 15lbs in a month or two due to the anxiety and stress and was worried the trip would be more abuse and was confused and really needed a break to get my head straight. I left and as it turns out, she waited for me and then blew up at me when I didn't come back to take our trip. She raged, said she was calling her exbf to cheat on me, accused me of not going out of state and sleeping with someone else. She eventually realized I wasn't coming back and went to FL without me. I felt horrible about it most of the weekend. Things were ugly from her most of the time I was gone - all FB stuff taken down, she said she was done with me, threatened to expose me and the "truth" to the world and take me down, threatened to kill me. The next day the rage died down and we talked via phone and committed to each of us getting help and getting through it. The raging was back by morning - literally, I went to bed happy that we talked, committed to each other and making it work, and woke up to raging that I don't love her. After my return things really got pretty bad and I ended up moving out (when she left me no choice.) Later she told me everything from the trip forward was all a game to her (not the first time she'd said that in the relationship now that I think about it) because I humiliated her and left her when we were supposed to go together.

I struggle with whether or not my decision was the right one on a regular basis. I think it was, the relationship the way it was was killing me, literally, and in such a short time. (We were together less than 10 months)

So, would I go? I didn't and it ended everything for good (though she took time to punish me for it first) due to the abandonment issues. Hindsight being what it is, there's a part of me that's sorry that I didn't go because it's a big source of the "What ifs" yet I'm glad I didn't go because if I had I would probably still be in the rs or dead/hospitalized.

Whether or not your pwBPD would feel the same way if you didn't go is unknown but it could trigger abandonment fear and possibly lead to some vengeful actions towards you in the future. Mine seemed to play me very well after the trip. But then again, that may have been the case the entire time we were together. Just my .02 and good luck in whatever you choose.

[TheRealJongoBong]

JQ, both I and my wife have been in therapy separately and together. The main thing I've ever noticed is that she is a completely different person in therapy than when she's alone with me, and that person is mostly an act.  Her fears of abandonment are very real, and her abandonment rage is very strong.

I'll tell a story about the last trip we went on - to Miami FL over the new year.  She bought plane tickets and the 1st night lodging, figuring we'd just wing it and go camping or something when we got there. This idea worked fairly good when we did this trip 10 years or so ago, but FL has changed pretty significantly since then. We managed to squeak one more night at the 1st hotel. In the middle of the night the hotel fire alarm went off for several hours, but at least the hotel didn't burn down. The next dayn we drove off in search of a hotel and spent several hours driving around looking for something cheap because she didn't want to pay a lot of money. Well, the next one was OK but nobody told us there was going to be a crack party next door all night long and that the night manager was deaf, dumb, and blind. After that horrific night we were both pretty shaken, but she went into blaming mode and started getting on my case about how I don't support her, how I always complain about her travel plans, how she's never going on a trip with me, etc. etc. Well, then we drive down to Coral Gables and try to find another place. Everything is either super expensive or booked, so we start trying AirBnB. I don't have any input into this process except to agree with everything she says, because this is standard operating procedure with us. Rule #1 is the wife is always right, rule #2 is if the wife is wrong, see rule #1. So she finds and reserves a place in the Keys but we can't immediately get a confirmation. Fine, we start driving south to Homestead. We get to Homestead and find out that the AirBnB due was lying, his place really wasn't available. So we start looking at hotels and run across the campground there. The wife wants to camp because it's way cheaper, I say OK because its fine (and rule #1) and we head off to the mart to buy a tent, etc., figuring we'll use it in the Keys like before. Well, I said the mart was south, but she insists it's north. We drive half way back to Miami before she finally admits that MAYBE we're going the wrong way.  By this time I just want a room, to go eat, and go to bed.  I press the point and we finally find a less hideous room in a beat up old hotel for $165 a night. We go eat,etc., but she starts telling me that I don't respect her or her travel planning, that I always complain,... .  In the morning we decide to drive back to Miami because the road to the Keys is a parking lot and we have no place to go anyway.  She starts giving me the lecture about how she's doing all the work with this vacation (it was her idea, remember), how she does all the planning and all I ever do is criticize her decisions. So fine, I look up Yelp and find a room in a hotel that was next door to the 1st we stayed in on North beach. It's kind of a dump and hideously priced, but hey, it's Miami beach and I'm tired of fighting and being cheap so no problem. We get a day on the beach the next day, it's pretty nice. She's in a good mood so the rest of the day and night go pretty good, but it's clear she's still angry about something. The next day we plan to go to the beach and hang out until it's time to go to the airport. Just about the time we're going she decides to call the airline to see if the flight's OK. It turns out that our flight has been canceled (no explanation why) and now we have to wait until midnight to fly out. On a whim she asks about an earlier flight - it turns out if we leave 10 minutes ago we'll have time to make it. Well, we try anyway. We drive the car into Miami beach traffic and head for the drop off hotel. There's no time to get gas, so I say F*** it we'll just pay the extra. We get to the hotel, drop off the car, get a taxi, and tell the driver to be a crazy man and get us to the airport. We make it! We change out of our swim suits into regular clothes, fly home, and wait for our luggage to come out of the chute. She then goes ballistic. She accuses me of thinking she's incompetent because of the trip , that I'm unappreciative of all the planning she did (?), and that it's very clear I'm planning to IMMEDIATELY meet my sexy men friends and initiate activities. Alrighty then, that was fun!

So to recap the last two weeks of my life:

wife buys tickets to Turkey, wants me to go with her

wife tells me she doesn't want me to go to Turkey with her, wants no further contact with me

wife tells me she now wants me to go to Turkey with her

wife tells me she doesn't want to go to Turkey, she wants a divorce

wife calls this morning and tells me she doesn't want a divorce, that she now understands the pattern

What's a poor boy to do?

[Svarl1]

"Now she wants a divorce. I think I can accomodate that."

Hi Jongo,

This constant change of direction sounds so draining, what a waste of time and energy!

I myself used to get the treatment sometimes where my partner would rage at me, finally declaring she'd had enough of me.

Just once did she actually throw me out - for a month or so.

The other times I felt like I had to play the part of pleading her to stay together - even though I actually wanted so much to leave! How screwed up for both of us!

I think your partner will continue to use this behaviour, basically for as long as you allow her to get away with it.

Next time she wants the divorce,  it's a chance for you to show the consequences.  It doesn't have to mean ending the relationship for ever.

But if you can slip away at the next opportunity,  or if she actually leaves you, then that puts you in a stronger negotiating position.

If she then begs to get back together you can set some rules:

No more manipulative threats.

No more accusations of infidelity.

You'll need to stick by these with zero tolerance.  Some people are masters of pushing boundaries ... .making exceptions ... .the exception quickly becomes the new normal ... .you know the score!

Or you could just go through with the divorce and move on to a saner life. Your choice, if you can allow yourself to make it.

[downandin]

My wife has thought for the past 6 years that I have been cheating on her with other men. She got this revelation from a dream 6 years ago. Everytime I'm a tiny bit late or any change in my routine occurs she thinks I'm doing it with the boys again.  A week ago I took my wedding ring off because I was splitting wood and did not want to risk an amputation. She noticed and, bam! she thinks it's buttsex time again.

I've frankly had it.

I'm pretty much impotent because I have physical problems as well as I am pretty sure I have PTSD from previous problems with my wife.  I've discussed this before on here, most recently in a post from yesterday in the lounge.  Anyway, since you brought up the subject, I thought I'd give an example from just last night.  My wife who has hardly spoken to me for a week found a meme on FB and proceeded to read it out-loud to me.  It was about famous people who were married to gay men and didn't know it.  This is the classic kind of passive-agressive thing I get all the time, and unbeknownst to her, it just complicates my problems even worse.  I am not gay, I am impotent, at least with her.  Frankly, I don't know how I would be with another woman, because I'm not a cheater.  It is a miserable existence... .

As far as the trip, GO.  You know you have to, so I'm probably just telling you what you already know.  It isn't worth what will happen if you don't.

[TheRealJongoBong]

My wife has thought for the past 6 years that I have been cheating on her with other men. She got this revelation from a dream 6 years ago. Everytime I'm a tiny bit late or any change in my routine occurs she thinks I'm doing it with the boys again.  A week ago I took my wedding ring off because I was splitting wood and did not want to risk an amputation. She noticed and, bam! she thinks it's buttsex time again.

I've frankly had it.

I'm pretty much impotent because I have physical problems as well as I am pretty sure I have PTSD from previous problems with my wife.  I've discussed this before on here, most recently in a post from yesterday in the lounge.  Anyway, since you brought up the subject, I thought I'd give an example from just last night.  My wife who has hardly spoken to me for a week found a meme on FB and proceeded to read it out-loud to me.  It was about famous people who were married to gay men and didn't know it.  This is the classic kind of passive-agressive thing I get all the time, and unbeknownst to her, it just complicates my problems even worse.  I am not gay, I am impotent, at least with her.  Frankly, I don't know how I would be with another woman, because I'm not a cheater.  It is a miserable existence... .

As far as the trip, GO.  You know you have to, so I'm probably just telling you what you already know.  It isn't worth what will happen if you don't.

Your last lines got the first laugh out of me in quite a while. Thanks for that!

[downandin]

Your last lines got the first laugh out of me in quite a while. Thanks for that!

It is comical, really!  If it weren't our lives, I would say it would make a great sitcom.

[JQ]

My wife has thought for the past 6 years that I have been cheating on her with other men. She got this revelation from a dream 6 years ago. Everytime I'm a tiny bit late or any change in my routine occurs she thinks I'm doing it with the boys again.  A week ago I took my wedding ring off because I was splitting wood and did not want to risk an amputation. She noticed and, bam! she thinks it's buttsex time again.

I've frankly had it.

I'm pretty much impotent because I have physical problems as well as I am pretty sure I have PTSD from previous problems with my wife.  I've discussed this before on here, most recently in a post from yesterday in the lounge.  Anyway, since you brought up the subject, I thought I'd give an example from just last night.  My wife who has hardly spoken to me for a week found a meme on FB and proceeded to read it out-loud to me.  It was about famous people who were married to gay men and didn't know it.  This is the classic kind of passive-agressive thing I get all the time, and unbeknownst to her, it just complicates my problems even worse.  I am not gay, I am impotent, at least with her.  Frankly, I don't know how I would be with another woman, because I'm not a cheater.  It is a miserable existence... .

As far as the trip, GO.  You know you have to, so I'm probably just telling you what you already know.  It isn't worth what will happen if you don't.

Downandin,

You said ... ."It is a miserable existence... ."    I've been married twice, divorced twice. Both were ok to live with what I've heard called "professional roommate" with a lack of sex, real intimacy with long talks, holding hands, snuggling, etc. We loved to go to movies, travel, but it was like traveling with a buddy.  I decided after several attempts, counseling, talking that it was time to move forward in my life.  Someone once asked me do you miss them? I miss their friendship, I miss the paling around we did but I don't miss not having a real intimate relationship. It wasn't a miserable existence but I knew that there was something better out there that would satisfy all my relationship needs. You only get one life & it's to short to live a life that is a "miserable existence".  "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around for a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller's Day Off

JQ

[JQ]

Jongo,

Well since it looks like you're going to be going to Turkey ... .part of what I did in the military is country clearances for certain things. I became very familiar with the State Dept. web page for country information. You get a wealth of information, embassy contact info and any warnings. I pulled this off their web page this morning.

Due to a record of past terrorist attacks in Turkey and a continuing threat from both transnational and indigenous groups, the threat level for the possibility of further terrorist attacks against U.S. citizens and interests remains critical.

The actual web page is  www.travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/turkey.html

You can get particular acts of terror and when & where they happened. Be sure to check back in when you get back and let us know how things went.

Stay safe

JQ

[OnceConfused]

Jongo:

It sounded like your trip to FL was a trip from HELL (according to my standards). I think when dealing with BPD, there are times we have to get out of our acquiescent state and get angry.

Like you, I am a very easy going person and thus I was taken advantage by xBPDgf who belittlled me and guess what I took it right on the chin.

Next time you have to stand up for yourself, for what you believe is right or wrong. LET BPD know that you are not a doormat and you are an equaly partner in the r/s. You must have to gut to say, " I cannt take it like this anymore.". and you must be ready to go nuclear.

[Zen80]

It's not like you have a whole heap of choice in going or not going. So you might as well go and see what happens. At least you can get raged at in a different location.

Like many of the stories above my BPDw is generally a lousy traveller. Complains about anything and everything, whenever you raise an issue then you are being negative and bringing her down. Every holiday has been a disaster. From the time she refused to sleep in the accomodation on a weekend away (it wasn't up to her expectations, despite being asked and told about it repeatedly beforehand) and then insisting on sleeping in the car by herself, to most recently threatening to jump off the balcony (5 stories up) and screaming so loudly that the neighbours called the cops on a family trip to the Gold Coast (kind of Australia's version of Florida). Every single holiday has been marred by some kind of rage/rant/behaviour.

I think that they really feel uncomfortable being away from home and their personal power base.

So go if you want to, but don't be surprised at the outcome.

[OnceConfused]

zen80:

Perhaps the way to deal with your BPDw is to say "Yes, Go ahead and do what you feel is right for  you."

That phrase is sending her the message that you are no longer affected by what she threatens to do, you do not let her dump her garbage on your yard. 

So when she say "I want to sleep in the car because ... " you can smile and look her straight in the eyes and say with a soft voice : Yes, Go ahead and do what you feel is right for you.

You respond to her statement but yet you remain detached.

I can remember one trip to Toronto with my xBPDgf. The trip started out ok but as time went one, one bizarre things occurred after next. In one instance, as we stopped at the stop sign, she suddenly yelled out "you are looking at the women in the cross walk" then she went into a silent rage. Then after we got to our room in the hotel, she touched my leg with hers, I pulled my leg back because I was cold. She got so upset, got up, get her purse and ran (literally ran out) of the room. Man, I came so close as to let her figure out how to get back to Ohio on her own.

Travelling with BPD was really an experience and a test of our patience. I love travelling but I cannt stand people bring the bs into the experience. So later when I met my wife now (non BPD), I took her for 2 weeks overseas to see how she did in the travel. She did fine and passed my test. I married her.

[TheRealJongoBong]

It's not like you have a whole heap of choice in going or not going. So you might as well go and see what happens. At least you can get raged at in a different location.

Like everything else in this r/s my wife is using this trip as a club. She keeps flipping between going, not going, getting a divorce, going... .The latest is that she called the airlines to see if she could get a refund on the flights. Since they were a deal you can only change them to another flight for a hefty fee. She's just trying to jerk me around by dangling the huge waste of money in my face, hoping I'm going to go off on her. I'm just like, "that's nice, dear". It's funny that when you stop buying into their games their abandonment rage kicks in big time.

[pseudotsuga]

Wow. That sounds like a very stressful thing you are going through, regarding all the 180s having to do with this trip. Sorry to hear that you are dealing with that... .

On a totally other note, I traveled around turkey for two months - hitchhiking and taking buses, about 10 years ago. (granted, the political situation is a bit different now, but I imagine avoiding the Syrian border would eliminate a lot of risk). It was LOVELY. The people were kind and welcoming. I always felt very safe. It was cheap. I don't speak a word of Turkish, and I found it very easy to navigate finding hotels/pensions on the fly (without making any reservations). It was easy to visit ruins and historical sites, easy to eat out and buy food at stores, as well as navigate beautiful natural places - all without any sort of official guides or tours. And... .we even did a fair amount of camping.

Anyway, in my experience, it was a good place to travel without a solid itinerary, or even - like it sounds like you might potentially experience - a rapidly changing itinerary. So, I imagine if your plans end up changing a lot or changing suddenly, in my opinion, it is a country where alternatives can be easily found.

Good luck... .I hope you figure things out as best as you can... .

[Panda39]

The RealJongoBong,

What has past travel looked like with your wife?  Does it always go down this way?  It could be that the stress of the travel itself is triggering her. 

My SO's uBPDxw made travel horrendous fiasco's and she has continued in that tradition even though they are now divorced.  I have always believed that the fantasy of travel really appealed to her but the reality... .organization, money, planning, appearances, reservations etc. were overwhelming to her.  At the same time she would not allow anyone else (my SO) make travel plans.

She was willing to buy plane tickets with the family's rent money, my SO had to tell the bank that their credit card was stolen so she couldn't use it.  She once made travel arrangements for the family to visit my SO's family out of state she flew their family out and had neglected to purchase return tickets!  It must be her way or nothing at all.  The family could drive to an out of state wedding but couldn't afford to fly.  She wasn't going to go because they couldn't fly (gotta keep up appearances - driving was too low class) but then decided at the last minute they should drive.  My SO drove for hours to get them there in the nick of time... .no "thank you" no nothing.

I also wanted to say that all of your wife's changes of mind seem to show push/pull behaviors and FOG. 

But to answer your original question would I go?  No I wouldn't primarily because of the volatile political situation but also because of the volatile behavior of the wife.  Would you even be able to enjoy the trip? 

You know you are in a damned if you do and damned if you don't position.  If you decide not to go you will be "blamed",  if you go and it doesn't turn out her satisfaction you will be "blamed", if she decides not to go you will also be "blamed".  Remember you can only control you, she is going to do what she is going to do.  So maybe the way to look at is what do you want to do?  If this is something really important to you then go, if not then don't.  How do you feel about the trip? Not her, but you.

Panda39

[TheRealJongoBong]

I started this thread on Aug 20, after my wife bought tickets to Turkey and then starting white/blacking me about it. I went through several cycles of "aren't you excited to go to Turkey with me?" and "I want a divorce from you NOW!". This cycle was broken when I was painted all black, followed by two calls to the police for "deliberately trying to hurt my dog" (I accidently left the gate open) and "he's giving drugs and having sex with boys across the street". About three days after the drugs/sex call (and subsequent denials it even happened) it's like "Yippee! We're going to Turkey!" This phase is currently in it's second day.

I'm not about to do anything with this trip except nod and smile. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. She insists (right now) that she is making arrangements. We'll see.

As for safety, we would only be going to Istanbul and the east coast, far enough away from the crazies in the south and east that I don't think we have to worry too much.

And with that, I'll leave you with a little gem she uttered this weekend: "When I get reincarnated I'm coming back as jewish!"

[patientandclear]

It sounds like you're putting your whereabouts and plans in her hands.  Why are you doing that?

[TheRealJongoBong]

It sounds like you're putting your whereabouts and plans in her hands.  Why are you doing that?

It's because I fundamentally believe that this trip is never going to happen, and I simply refuse to stress over her gyrations about it.

[OnceConfused]

The more I thought about your situation of going to Turkey with her, the more I am concerned for the following reasons:

1. If she disregulates on the trip, then you will have no place to get away. The trip will become a very uncomfortable situation.

2. Unless, you put forth some conditions of civilities so that you both can enjoy each other and a new culture.

I can remember one short trip I took for a weekend to Toronto with the xBPDgf. It became such an ordeal with her out of the blue jealousy and ice cold silent treatment. 

[TheRealJongoBong]

Believe me, I have been thinking about that. Her most common delusion is that I'm having affairs with other people all the time. Since we'll be effectively closeted together for the trip, coupled with the fact that she's going to arrange it and be in control, it's hard to say how she might get triggered except for when it's almost over. This scenario is about what happened the last time we went on a trip. I've also considered that if things get too hot I can just separate from her until it's time for the return flight.

I might as well think about magical fairies too.  The trip was on for Sunday and Monday, but yesterday we're back to not speaking again. I'm pretty sure she's imagining my latest affair again. My life would be pretty exciting if it was anything like what she imagines it to be.