Bad day coping with loving someone with BPD

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi I am new to the site and having a bit of a bad day. I hate BPD, it's ruined my life. The one person I wanted so much and he had to suffer from it. It's impossible to give him what he needs because he doesn't know himself what he wants/needs from one day to the next. One day he's open to me the next he won't even reply to me. It's Heartbreaking and today is particularly bad. I often wonder if knowing a lot about how his mind thinks works to my detriment, had I have just thought he was not a nice person I would've just walked away. I saw read flags but not to the extreme that some ppl do, he conned me into falling in love, he waited and waited for me to say it, it took me 7 months to feel comfortable to say it and he devalued me within days.

That was a year ago, the off and on still continues although now he will only see me if I catch him in time before he triggers again. We talk, arrange to meet and within 48 hrs he's ignoring me again (we live a few hours apart and it's not easy for me to just drop things and be there).

I wish I could say he's cheated, he's an absolute arsehole etc etc but I can't. Yes he's done all the crazy making, manipulation, triangulation, projection, stalking but because I understand BPD (on paper) it makes it hard for me to internalise his behaviour and use it against him and as a reason to walk away. Knowing is all well and good but when a person you love won't let you physically near them then I wish I didn't know and just thought he was an arsehole!

Any advice on what I can do? The only thing that works is ignoring him for a while and then reaching out to him but with a time frame he's angry at me again for absolutely nothing but his own mind! Or is there genuinely nothing I can do? All tips, especially from BPDs would be most welcome x

[Lou12]

Hi I am new to the site and having a bit of a bad day. I hate BPD, it's ruined my life. The one person I wanted so much and he had to suffer from it. It's impossible to give him what he needs because he doesn't know himself what he wants/needs from one day to the next. One day he's open to me the next he won't even reply to me. It's Heartbreaking and today is particularly bad. I often wonder if knowing a lot about how his mind thinks works to my detriment, had I have just thought he was not a nice person I would've just walked away. I saw read flags but not to the extreme that some ppl do, he conned me into falling in love, he waited and waited for me to say it, it took me 7 months to feel comfortable to say it and he devalued me within days.

That was a year ago, the off and on still continues although now he will only see me if I catch him in time before he triggers again. We talk, arrange to meet and within 48 hrs he's ignoring me again (we live a few hours apart and it's not easy for me to just drop things and be there).

I wish I could say he's cheated, he's an absolute arsehole etc etc but I can't. Yes he's done all the crazy making, manipulation, triangulation, projection, stalking but because I understand BPD (on paper) it makes it hard for me to internalise his behaviour and use it against him and as a reason to walk away. Knowing is all well and good but when a person you love won't let you physically near them then I wish I didn't know and just thought he was an arsehole!

Any advice on what I can do? The only thing that works is ignoring him for a while and then reaching out to him but with a time frame he's angry at me again for absolutely nothing but his own mind! Or is there genuinely nothing I can do? All tips, especially from BPDs would be most welcome x

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Lou12, I'm afraid that you have encountered the rare Pushme-pullyu animal described by Dr. Doolittle.  Your efforts to tame this beast are likely to be unsuccessful.  It you want to keep one of these animals, you will have to accept that there will always be a push/pull aspect to your r/s.  The Pushme-pullyu animal exhibits all the BPD behaviors -- "crazy making, manipulation, triangulation, projection, stalking" -- that you describe.   The question is, why do you want to continue on the safari?

LuckyJim

[sas1729]

Hey and welcome! I haven't been on this forum for long so I'm sure the more veteran members will give a better welcome than me

I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this. I can offer my perspective that's based solely on my own experience. I wish I could say something else, but I have found that the only thing we can do is to ask ourselves the tough question "is this working for me?" And then we have to be brutally honest with ourselves. What is it that we want/need from this person? Is the pain really worth it? From the outside I'm pretty certain that the answer is "no", especially if we don't have any obligations (commitments).

The fact is that knowing about BPD can give you the framework for understand why a pwBPD behaves they way he/she does, but I really don't think it should be used to make excuses for how you feel. Your pain is real and you deserve to take care of yourself. I'm not trying to advocate you do something in particular but I think it is important to take care of yourself.

In my experience there is nothing that you can do. BPD is a serious and tragic disorder that I think requires professional help. Nothing that I did in my relationship was able to change my BPDex. I hoped and hoped, but I could not change her. Stay strong. I'm sure that many others will offer their opinions, and it's great to have such a resource as this forum

[Lou12]

Luckyjim, thanks for your reply.

I know what the answer is it's just to painful to contemplate letting go. I am heart broken and if I understand correctly some of the time he is to? Your right, of course I don't want this. This relationship was never what I envisioned love to be but I'm here in love and hurting like hell. Suppose I need to grasp that it is what it is and I can't fix it with love. .

Hi Sas1729 thank you for your reply also.

Again your right, this person doesn't seem to be able to give me what I need and I don't seem to be able to do the same for him either. I'm a sucker for applying logic to situations and not assessing how it makes me feel.

I suppose I'm going through the motions of not wanting to quit from someone I deeply care for. I was hoping for a miracle wand but as I see from your times trying it just doesn't work!

What makes it so hard is that I say to myself... ok if you really love this person then let them go, it's the only way they might seek help as I'm enabling his condition but then he continuously calls and texts my phone from random numbers and I don't have the strength to not reach out. I suppose if he falls I want to be the one to catch him. Maybe my concept of love is warped!

I cry for the fact that I can't change this, it's like mourning the loss of one person yet the same but different person still walks the earth.

I love him so much... and I know 50% of him feels the same! Total mind f@ck!

[Lou12]

Weirdly I can see what this guy is going to do next, it's like I'm in his mind! I know he hurts more than I do although he hates me for this very reason!

[Lou12]

^^^^ Actually it's probably more like a pattern of disorded actions that's now engraved in my mind!

[Lucky Jim]

I'm enabling his condition but then he continuously calls and texts my phone from random numbers and I don't have the strength to not reach out. I suppose if he falls I want to be the one to catch him. Maybe my concept of love is warped!

Hello again, Lou, I admire your self-awareness.  Yes, I would suggest that your idea of "love" is more of a dependency than a healthy r/s.  On some level, I think you know this, yet I understand that it's hard to let go, just as it is hard to kick any dependency or addiction.  It might help you to think of your r/s in those terms.  You might consider whether you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms.  Only you know what is the right path for you.

LuckyJim

[TheRealJongoBong]

Hi Lou12, sorry to hear you're caught in the whirlpool too. It's hard to deal with because it's exhausting and never-ending.  If it's any help, this is what I've learned.

1. I fell in love with an actress, not a person.  I fell in love with someone who I thought was being real, who was allowing me to share with. What I found out was that person wasn't real.

2. I made a list alternating between what I loved about my wife and what I didn't love about my wife.

3. I made a list alternating between things I loved that my wife did and things I didn't love that my wife did.

At that point I learned I was in love with an image, not the real person. I was in love with a personality that used to exist but doesn't anymore. All this wasn't fun, but it was very enlightening.

[Lou12]

Thanks Jim, I will definitely look into what your saying as it does resonate with my situation. Thanks for your feed back and time

Hi Therealjongobong, thank you so much for taking time to help me to.

Maybe because we don't live together I'm yet to see the best of BPD behaviour? What I've seen is pretty ruthless but to me it is more sad than anything.

Maybe my dilemma is a little different or am I possibly being naive and in denial?

I totally detach from the BPD behaviour. When he manipulates me, I know he's doing it because he needs me to feel weak so he feels stronger, when he tries to make me jealous, he does it so I show him I need him more, when he ignores me I know it's to make me fight harder to prove I won't leave him. When he splits me I know it's because I'm not there for him instantly and it panics him. When he calls me crazy I know it's projection. When he lies i know it's because he doesn't have faith in who he is. I won't allow myself to be pulled into his world and I know I can't and never will be able to heal him, it has to be his journey. What I find so difficult to deal with is that he won't let me near him physically. He breaks my heart that he's suffering alone.

I love everything about him until I leave and BPD strikes.

I just wish he could offer me something back in return but he's to frightened of the engulfment to (the drastic ness of me moving to where he is etc). I imagine metaphorically that he has to sit on the centre of a seesaw, any movement left or right completely triggers him and he needs to feel at that centre point in his mind. Which leaves me pretty buggered as a simple phone call ending from me tips him over the edge and his BPD craziness goes worse.

I empathise so much with his pain and maybe if, as Jim said I could assess my own feelings instead of applying logic to the BPD things he does I would see it as more personal to me. Suppose I'm saying I find it hard to leave when I know his behaviour is nothing personal, he can't help it and he'd give his arm to take it away. Does anyone else feel this way? Am I making excuses and sounding totally codependent?

I miss him but he won't let me near him, will this just get worse and worse until he banishes me forever?

[Lou12]

Arghhh maybe I don't love myself? But I do have decent boundaries and I'm 100% sure I'm mentally healthy! So confused because I love him and feel like I shouldn't!

[Loosestrife]

Arghhh maybe I don't love myself? But I do have decent boundaries and I'm 100% sure I'm mentally healthy! So confused because I love him and feel like I shouldn't!

I can relate to this. I think I started off mentally healthy but as a compassionate and caring person who fell in love, I then tried to stay thinking I could help/we could find a way to manage the disorder within the r/s.

After any period of exposure to BPD our minds, hearts and emotions start to become affected by our partners inconsistent and irrational responses. Intermittently,  they then  have periods of logic and say loving words that make us overlook the former. I think out By-proxy craziness will wear off with time ... .

[TheRealJongoBong]

It's the trauma bond, Lou12. It forms in us before we understand the behavior. The constant push-pull makes us think everything is blowing up, and then when it doesn't we're happy our loved one is back. It's like they live and die with us multiple times, and the constant loss makes us want them more. After awhile (at least it was for me) we're just in love with an idea, not the real person. I'm mostly repelled by my uBPDw because of the constant horrible behavior she exhibits. That said, if she stopped tomorrow I'd be right in her arms again.

[Lou12]

Wow TheRealJongoBong, Loosestrife And Jim you guys really seem to know your stuff. I'm guessing this is due to years of trauma dealing with a BPD!

Looked into the addictive r/s Jim and it all sounds close to home. I am actually going to use this analogy as  a means to recover, it allows my brain a better logic which suits me (getting over an addiction).

Looked at trauma bonding too JongoBong, so very right! It was actually all the initial coming/going behaviour that drove me mad, yet I chose to take a step back and realise what this person was doing. All the while I was thinking I was in control because I knew what was happening but now I realise that I was already trauma bonded at this time and my excuses for his behaviour was not because I was in control and dealing with it but because I had been controlled/conditioned to expect that behaviour?

I need to really think about what it is I love about this person and think about this 'idea' of who they are!

Human psychology is just quite extraordinary, amazing how ppl can be conditioned but I expect a lot of this stems from our own childhoods 

One thing I can say is that I genuinely don't feel that my BPD was ever aware of the effect of what he was doing when conditioning me. I truly believe he just ran off his emotions which had him coming/going.

What is others takes on this initial conditioning during the early stage?

[TheRealJongoBong]

I don't think they are doing anything in the beginning (or anytime else) but living in their own dream. The FOG that they produce is just unconscious blaming that our world doesn't match theirs. It's our fault that we're not meeting their expectations because our actions don't line up with their dream world reality. To them we're the ones living in a dream world, and if we would only recognize that and move into theirs everything would be better. How could we be so dense not to see that their world is correct and ours isn't?

It's the view of a three year old, that they are the center of the universe. The analogy that makes most sense to me is getting a video camera and throwing it up in the air. From my point of view the camera makes a smooth arc upward and downward, and it spins around a bit. From the camera's point of view the world is calm, then suddenly starts shooting and whirling around for no reason. Then for no reason everything is back to normal. The camera's view is the world of the pwBPD.

[Lou12]

Yes defiantly Jongobong! Except their expectations keep on changing with their mood. Mine always told me 'you need to fight for me harder' but when I did I'd get berated for doing so! I actually carried out a little experiment during each cycle. Each time he came back I behaved a little different ie I gave him lots and lots of reassurance, another time I played inbetween, another I called him out on things and another I just ignored his behaviour. What I learned was that nothing worked, it was never about me and all that was in his own head. Will he ever let me move on? Or is this all down to me?

Thanks for all your advice it's been life saving! No contact seems to be the only way  x

[TheRealJongoBong]

Will he ever let me move on? Or is this all down to me?

No.

Yes.

[Lou12]

In my heart I believe that he will always come back until I stop the cycle. My logic for this is that... I have the life he always dreamed of, I'm financially stable, live in a nice home, attractive  and a good mother to my sons, basically I know he thinks I'm out of his league (not overly narcissistic by the way haha) so I feel intil he finds someone who outweighs me then he'll always come back or is my logic way off?

[foggydew]

Your logic sounds just fine to me. Just how I assess my BPD friend. Our relationship has gone through the whole cycle - now we are seemingly comfortable with friendship alone, though everyone else sees us as a couple. He doesn't feel hemmed in: there is no committment; he could leave if he finds the one he needs who ticks more of his boxes than I do  - but he will keep coming back to some extent anyway. He also says I will have to be the one who pushes him away.

But at the moment things are just fine - he knows I love him, and I know he loves me as well as he can. If I can accept the situation as it is, I can have lots of fun, pleasant times, new experiences. But I have to be aware it can change suddenly, temporarily or permanently, and deal with this. My own self esteem has to be strong (and strangely enough, learning to deal with this kind of situation helps that too) and there has to be a plan B. I notice that the longer it goes on at an even keel, the stronger I become, the more stable he does too.

But it is not the kind of partnership most people would expect.

[Lou12]

Foggydew, my heart bleeds for you, for me and for every other person who loves someone with no return. I swear I'm not patronising you but why? How? Reading your post has broke me, nothing about it talks about your hopes and dreams but about what your partner wants and needs and how you manage them to keep hold of him! And I'm doing the same! I'm everything I never wanted to be! I love women, we're strong, resilient incredible creatures, I hate myself for not loving myself or believing I am worth so much more. Why do we want things we can't fully have? Do you believe longterm you would still want this person if they were 'normal'? Why do I want him? Why? X

[foggydew]

ah, Lou, sorry I gave you that impression - I do get a lot of return, in the form I really need. Hopes and dreams actually died with my husband. I could see no reason to live, to do anything, and this young man really did his best to care for me in spite of his real problems. Now that I'm on a more even keel myself I don't really need much more from a relationship than what I have described, and I don't need anyone too close. Or want it. But what I do want is a basis, a feeling of belonging - and this makes me free to do things that I want to do. When the dysregulation comes, it takes up a lot of my time and energy. In the past, I've often thought 'I want out', probably will think this too sometimes in the future. So this is all part of my own personal journey.

You are in a different position - you have your sons as a basis. But the 'keep coming back' and your assessment of his behaviour and needs is what I was replying to.

[Lou12]

Hey foggydew, I feel I owe you an apology. I freaked out a little last night after reading your post and was maybe being a bit judgemental, so for that I am sorry.

It sounds like you have had quite a journey, I'm sorry to hear about yourself dying along with your husband . You seem very self aware about what your expectations are in life and what suits your levels of comfort x

[foggydew]

Lou, thanks, but no apology needed. Nice to have feedback that shows me I have to explain a bit more otherwise I give a false impression. I'm hoping that you find out exactly what you need and get it!