How is validation not bad or passive parenting?

[HawaiiFay]

I am new here but I think I may be missing something.

I have watched the validation video, and I have heard and understand the general concept. I clearly see how it has tremendous value when dealing with adults.

But how does this work when trying to simultaneously raise a child, teach values/limitations, and help children know what behaviors or acceptable/unacceptable so they can stay safe and learn how to function and take care of themselves in the real world as an adult?

If my daughter refuses to clean her room or not go to school how is validating her lack of desire to do so lead to her actually cleaning her or going to school? Yes, it may keep peace but it does not change the core problem or lead to solving the core problem.

It may lead to be being able to ask questions... ."Why don't you want to go to school?", "Why don't you want to clean your room?". But all I will get it is "I don't know." or "Whatever. Leave me alone" or "Cause I don't. I'll do it when I wanna." (which is never).

So, do I then say, "OK, I understand you don't want to clean your room, but it's important because... .".

All this leads to is her continuing to ignore me. I walk away. She never cleans her room. She never goes to school. She flunks out of school and life.

Now, of course i am truncating the effects of this, but you get the idea. These are real things that happen in my house. And these are the mild ones. I am not event getting into the drugs, the disappearing, the stealing, etc.

How is validating feels wrapped around maladaptive behavior in any way helping an adolescent mature into a well-adjusted adult?

Do I basically have to give up parenting? Give up trying to teach any sense of right and wrong for the sake of keeping a peaceful home?

I tried the validating tactic last year and she was fine as long as she sensed she could get away with anything and everything and she could walk all over me and get away with it. But the poor choices and bad behavior didn't get better because of it, they got worse.What I discovered is that when she was in therapy she was just pretending to cooperate and understand so she could get back home and get to her 'stuff', her material things which is all she cares about.

Once she got what she wanted all the old behaviors resurfaced and the escalated again. Which makes my reactions escalate. And we are back in the cycle.

I understand how validation can help an adult become more empathetic to their spouse/sfriend, etc. but I don't understand how validation helps a parent be a parent.

Dazed and confused.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[AVR1962]

Touche/amen! We can only do so much and compromising ourselves is not acceptable but many times that is what we do when dealing with a BPD family member. I do not think there is any answer that is absolute.

For me it has been letting go of my right and wrongs and applying them to my BPD daughter. Let me explain... .my mom was not available to us as kids and was not the person to make breakfast or care for my sister and I when we were growing up. It was my dad and my Gma that took care of us and I wanted to fill that same role as my dad and Gma did.

My daughter, as an adult mom, would not make breakfast for her kids (like  my mom) and did not cook at all, did not clean the house.

So are we expected to support them for sake of having a relationship where we really cannot relate and sacrifice ourselves?

Our lives are about us and our children's lives are about them. What they decide for themselves is their choice, not ours. We cannot decide our child's future and we cannot make their decisions for them. They have to find their own way and make their own choices and therefore pay their own consequences. What gets messed up with a BPD is their perception of events so holding them to the truth that you know might not be the truth they have and that is where is gets tricky. Our reality is not their reality, so do we compromise our values?

Your child might not want to clean her room or go to school but what are we capable of doing to make that happen? If they do not want to do this you have very little you can do but place boundaries. Whether a young BPD, or older, I feel we have to be assertive in our own intentions. This may not cater to the BPD but our lives have to go on.

[six]

i am by no means an authority on this topic and i certainly struggle with it.  but i think validating is about feelings, not about whether or not she cleans her room.  for example, you can still say - you have to clean your room, and you are not allowed to go out until the room is clean,

at the same time, you can validate her feeling that she is really annoyed by this by saying, "it must be so annoying to you that you have to clean your room when you just want to go out." the validating is about her feelings, not about whether or not she does what you instruct.

i think it is important to remember that the core issue with these kids is generally not whether they clean their room.  it is helping them to live functional lives, and helping ourselves to do the same thing.  i think validating emotions helps with  bringing function into our lives, even if the room is still a mess.

[meantcorn34]

With a teen, it's more than just validation. You validate feelings, but as someone wrote recently, privileges - phone, going out, "stuff" should be earned. So, your daughter must clean her room to earn the privilege of going out this weekend. It's a different ballgame with an adult though. Does that make sense?

[Kwamina]

Hi HawaiiFay

Welcome to bpdfamily and thanks for starting this thread. You raise some very good points.

When we talk about validation and acceptance of feelings, I think it's important to keep in mind that we don't mean acceptance in the sense of condoning or approving their actions. By acceptance we mean acknowledgment of reality as it is:

Acceptance doesn't mean you approve; it doesn't mean you're happy about something; it doesn't mean you won't work to change the situation or your response to it, but it does mean that you acknowledge reality as it is--with all its sadness, humor, irony, and gifts--at a particular point in time... .~ Freda B. Friedman, Ph.D., LCSW

No matter how another person feels, no matter how wrong or absurd we might find those feelings, that doesn't change the fact that these feelings are still real:

Telling a person she shouldn't feel the way she does feel is akin to telling water it shouldn't be wet, grass it shouldn't be green, or rocks they shouldn't be hard. Each person's feelings are real. Whether we like or understand someone's feelings, they are still real. Rejecting feelings is rejecting reality; it is to fight nature... .Considering that trying to fight feelings, rather than accept them, is trying to fight all of nature, you can see why it is so frustrating, draining and futile.

Everyone's feelings are real but you of course don't want to say anything that you don't really believe because that would be validating the invalid. When trying to use the technique of validation, finding a validation target is key. Even when you don't agree with how someone is behaving at all, it might still be possible to identify a validation target. This can help in structuring the interaction so you can come to the point of expressing yourself and/or asserting yourself in a way that minimizes the likelihood of further conflict while maximizing the likelihood of getting through to the other person.

Validation is only one of the communication techniques described on this site. I think it helps to look at how the various communication techniques are related and support each other. For instance, the D.E.A.R.M.A.N. technique is a script to help you assert yourself: ":).E.A.R.M.A.N. is used when you have an objective, you want something specific, such as to get more sleep, to have help with the chores, to affect a change or to say NO to a request." To be able to verbally assert yourself requires the ability to express yourself, the ability to speak your truth. A technique that is very helpful for that is S.E.T. which stands for Support, Empathy and Truth: "It consists of a 3 step sequence where first Support is signaled, then Empathy is demonstrated and in a third step Truth is offered." S.E.T. can be very helpful when dealing with disordered individuals. Specifically for the 'S' part it's important to be mindful of our own potentially unhelpful reactions, also as a kind of checklist to ensure we ourselves keep doing the right things, this can also help keep us more calm and focused on our objective. The 'E' part of S.E.T. stands for 'Empathy', and that's where the technique of validation comes in. So validation is not just a standalone technique, but also an integral part of other communication techniques that can help you speak your truth, assert yourself and set boundaries.

[lbjnltx]

Hello HawaiiFay,

I understand how you might believe validation is manipulation.   The sole purpose of validation is to let the other person know that they have been heard and understood.  Validation is a gift to another person.  If we are resentful in validating we aren't authentic and it rarely passes the highly sensitive radar of a person with BPD (pwBPD). A bi product of validation is that when one feels heard and understood they may be more able to process their feelings and lower their emotional temperature. When one's emotional temperature is lowered this creates space for the logic/reason part of the brain to become more active.  When the logic and reason part of the brain is active problem solving can take place.

Problem solving is not the goal of validation though it may be an end result.

Learning to ask validating questions helps lead the validated person to solve their own problems.  We can play a supportive role in the problem solving process as well.  You can learn about asking validating questions here:  The Power of Asking Validating Questions

A few valuable tips on asking validating questions is not to begin a question with "Why" and to avoid the use of the term "But"... .both of which I noticed in your post when you wrote about solving the problems regarding your daughter's responsibilities.

As Kwamina presented, SET and DEARMAN are techniques that incorporate validation to achieve additional results and problem solve.  One of the things we often do is make a demand rather than a request and stand around waiting for the fall out... .we end up in battle and circular arguments. It's best to make a request (the truth part of your SET statement) and walk away, this lets your daughter know that it's her responsibility to honor the request.  Having clearly defined consequences of not honoring responsibilities helps us enforce limits.  You can read about how to most successfully set limits here: https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/06.htm

The side bar contains a great deal of information to help you cope, parent successfully, and learn about the disorder your daughter suffers with.

We will be here to help you and support you as you learn.

lbj