Getting the "friend" thrown in my face

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

A test of my insecurities again tonight. Messaged my Ex asking if she was ok. (Was angry after a recent Therapy session). Just a simple conversation about how she was and what she had been up to. She then pokes at me by saying "Been seeing an old friend a lot lately. Been mostly hanging out at his place". Now out of all the things she could have said about her day, she has to pull out another guy and throw him in my face.


I acted like I was not fazed by this and just said "I hope he treats you right". Inside my heart has taken a sink. But I'm doing my best to keep my head held up.


Update: I had stated that I had made a new friend and was doing a few things in my life. She asked me "So who is your new friend? smiley" The red flag came up immediately and I said "Is that something you really want to hear?" and "Why do I have a feeling this is going to take a bad turn?" (Should have listened to my gut) but she said "Try me smiley" so I told her that my new friend was a girl and we had just met recently.

Instantly she turned into Mrs. Hyde and told me she was never going to talk to me again and was out of my life forever. That she regrets ever meeting me and I was the biggest mistake of her life. To  please read               | off and never speak to her again.

[Mistomaple]

A test of my insecurities again tonight. Messaged my Ex asking if she was ok. (Was angry after a recent Therapy session). Just a simple conversation about how she was and what she had been up to. She then pokes at me by saying "Been seeing an old friend a lot lately. Been mostly hanging out at his place". Now out of all the things she could have said about her day, she has to pull out another guy and throw him in my face.


I acted like I was not fazed by this and just said "I hope he treats you right". Inside my heart has taken a sink. But I'm doing my best to keep my head held up.


Update: I had stated that I had made a new friend and was doing a few things in my life. She asked me "So who is your new friend? smiley" The red flag came up immediately and I said "Is that something you really want to hear?" and "Why do I have a feeling this is going to take a bad turn?" (Should have listened to my gut) but she said "Try me smiley" so I told her that my new friend was a girl and we had just met recently.

Instantly she turned into Mrs. Hyde and told me she was never going to talk to me again and was out of my life forever. That she regrets ever meeting me and I was the biggest mistake of her life. To  please read               | off and never speak to her again.

[patientandclear]

Did your news to her come before hers to you, or after?

[shatra]

Her throwing the person in your face seems like she wanted to bait you into jealousy. When you replied "Hope he treats you right"  she probably  took this to mean you are okay with her new person and not jealous... .she may have wanted you to be jealous.

    I have heard of BPs telling the ex to go out with new people, encouraging it, and then when it happens the BP gets jealous and rages.

[Targeted]

I've been through this enough but never did it back, sounds like you two are still enmeshed and headed to recycle! 

Recycling is only good if it helps the environment!

[Mistomaple]

Thank you for all the replies. My news came after hers. I did try and deter her from the subject and didn't reveal my new friend was a girl. She said "Try me" and I just sighed and let her have what she wanted. She wanted me to go pick up my life, said she wouldn't care if I talked to other women, said there was no way we'd get back together after a vicious push/pull cycle that left me destroyed.


I don't regret telling her this. I love this girl. But if she can't handle the honesty and answers given, then she shouldn't ask the questions. I'm not the type to hide things from people.

[Mistomaple]

Woke up this morning after being told she was "out of my life" and I was "the biggest mistake of her life". She has initiated some contact saying "It's funny because I've been missing you a lot lately. I guess you haven't felt the same about me"


What am I expecting going forward. A Chase? Gritty details about what she's up to with her old "friend"?

I was expecting a cold shoulder for some time. But she hasn't been out of my life for about half a day.

[formflier]

 

Mistomaple,

You are on the staying board... .so I'm making an assumption here that you want to continue a relationship with this person.

The key is to communicate with her in healthy ways... .even if she is not doing the same to you. 

She may say things to get you to "react" or act out... .as an odd way of seeing if you care.  Please let those things pass by.

Can you invite her to coffee... .just a quick get together?  I am not a fan of trying to sort things out via text... .or even phone.  So much "feeling" gets lost.

Best to meet in person... .but don't "chase" her... .enjoy being with her.  Instead of talking about the r/s... ."do" it... .share an enjoyable conversation... .leave it at that.

Repeat a few days later.

Thoughts?

I'm a bit new to your story... so my advice is very general.  However... .getting a "friend" thrown in your face is about a reaction... .an invitation to fight... .or some kind of drama.    Don't bit on it...

I would keep your friends private... .hiding and privacy are very different things.

FF

[Mistomaple]

Trust me. I'd love to meet up with her and spend some time together. Probably should have mentioned that our relationship was Long Distance, so meeting isn't really an option. I'm going on a trip to her home at the end of next month, but her wanting to see me is another question.


I can see the fear of abandonment coming through and the nasty reaction it brings with it. Now she tells me that she despises me and that her and her family hate me. That she never loved me and was only using me this entire time to make her feel better. She also said she burned all the gifts I gave her, deleted all of our photos from FB etc and said she's sleeping with another man.


I've not taken any of this personally. It's just left me with a migraine.

[Mistomaple]

Just hit home today what she has done. The woman I have all the love in the world for has tried to verbally destroy me, thrown her sex life in my face and burned the gifts I gave her then went on Facebook to gloat about it and how she feels liberated and renewed. I don't take it personally, but to see her friends and even an old Ex of hers encouraging this act is awful.

I have forgiveness in my heart, but right now the shock of it all has angered me. One of those gifts had a great sentimental value to me and to know that it was treated with such disrespect while I cherish everything she has ever given me.

[shatra]

Misto wrote

thrown her sex life in my face and burned the gifts I gave her then went on Facebook to gloat about it and how she feels liberated and renewed. I don't take it personally, but to see her friends and even an old Ex of hers encouraging this act is awful.

---I can understand your feelings. 

----Why is she throwing her sex life in your face?  To try to make you jealous?

---Does she think that by being with someone else you wouldn't return? Or would you still be with her in the future despite this?

---Their reactions are extreme---publicly she is gloating, but eventually she may privately want you back

---How do you know her friends are encouraging her? Have they written on facebook? 

---If they truly encourage her, it is possible she gave them a distorted version of the breakup, favoring her and devaluing you? 

[Lou12]

Mistomaple I totally understand your need to make them feel your pain by giving a taste of their own medicine because I've done it to a smaller degree. It back fires in numerous ways, 1 being that they then up the anti and 2 and the most important is that your giving her more reason to feel your untrustworthy. I think I have a few BPD traits(not nearly to my BPD ex's extreme) but with my other ex partner the only thing that helped me was when he remained exactly the same about his feelings about me, no games, no mixed signals ect. Your making a rod for your own back their and causing yourself additional heartache down the road. BPD is a serious mental illness not an ability to control reaction like you are possibly able to.

[Mistomaple]

My intentions were never to add any more logs to the fire.

shatra. I believe she threw it in my face in the heat of the moment. Usually when we talk there will be subtle hints of a "friend" she's hanging around with. She keeps it very secretive and sometimes mentions that it's a male for good measure. I don't know why she feels the need to do this. I'd ask her how her day is and she will automatically go straight to "Oh. I'm hanging out with an old friend or I'm just taking to a friend on Skype or just hanging with a friend at "his" house. I'd still find it in my heart to forgive her in the future. My emotions are just heated right now. It is possible she gave her friends a distorted version, but that doesn't stop their replies to her post being hurtful, like setting peoples things on fire is a big joke.


Lou. I was baited into this. I didn't go looking for trouble. She mentioned her friend and I acted like I didn't care (Even though I did). Then she insisted on knowing who I'd been talking to. I'm an honest person and I'd rather warn her for her own good and then be honest instead of hiding it and sounding like I'm up to something.

Is there any way to remedy this or is it the old saying "Time is a healer"?

[Lou12]

Oh absolutely Mistomaple from my experience it makes not much odds what you do until they seek help.

Personally I feel your best stance when faced with situations like that is to simply say 'I love you so why would you think it's acceptable that I would want to hear this, your hurting my feelings and I wish for you to have more respect for me'. You have got to remember this person is disordered, they love the pain you throw at them because it's all they know, like a kind of familiarity and what they subconsciously feel worthy of but long term if your relationship ever has a chance of working then I say be honest. More importantly be true to yourself and set yourself up for the fact that this person could be gone at anytime . But yes just ignore her for a bit, act happy etc and pretend your moving on and that usually makes them return sooner but she'll be back in my opinion x please gain as much info about BPD as possible so your mentally strong, it has the ability to seriously ruin your life

[Mistomaple]

Thank you Lou. I appreciate your insight and guidance. She is seeking help and I wish all the best for her journey. It's very hard to ignore someone that you'd give your life for if you had to. I'll use my friends, this support community, my family and every piece of knowledge and coping tool I can to help me through this time. I feel the rage inside me starting to calm and turn into sadness. Not sadness for what she did to me, but sadness for the pain she goes through, that she feels actions like this are the only way.


There is an amazing girl in there and I want her to blossom and shine one day so the world can see her beauty as a person.

[Lou12]

I know you do Mistomaple, sadly it's what we all want but chances of them/you achieving this outcome without intensive therapy is sadly near on impossible. I can only recommend you work on yourself. Please believe me when I say if she is BPD your not going to fix her infact you'd have more chance of fixing her by letting her go. You will never understand what is in her head because she doesn't.

Sending you love x

[Mistomaple]

I've been doing more reading and research, trying to find out why my Ex keeps things inside and refuses to talk about them and why she gets so defensive when I point things out. The conclusion I came to was "Shame". She doesn't like talking about the past and avoids me because she's supressing and trying to get rid of it because she is unable to feel guilt and take responsibility. I do believe that the things she said and how she handled he situation has been another blow to her sense of self.


So if I'm right and this Shame can cause a pwBPD to do everything they can to avoid and bury. What is it that makes them want to come back and reach out to you? Is it simply the fear of being abandoned? Do they bury the shame first and then come looking?

[Lou12]

Hey Mistomaple, obvs I can't speak for every BPD this is only what I made of my own... .

Due to the BPDs inability to internalise bad aspects of themselves (anger, jealousy, etc etc) they project whatever it is they feel onto another, for example... BPD is angry he can't internalise this as his fault so he projects it on to 'Lou'! He says 'Lou is this that and the other and she is why I am angry'! 'Lou needs to be punished/discarded because she is the reason I feel this way'! This worked the same way when it was also something nice. Lou says to BPD 'I love you' BPD feels scared, nervous, angry etc so BPD thinks 'I feel bad/angry because of Lou, Lou is trouble, she's untrustworthy, Lou has to be discarded'. 'Lou is the reason for all these emotions I can't handle'.

BPDs fear engulfment as well as abandonment.

All of this was never actually about what Lou done but how the BPD felt.

You are no longer what they really want because look at what you have just made them feel! To a non we can see how abandonment can make him react but to a BPD he's not actually thinking I don't want to be abandoned at this point, he's thinking 'get the f@ck away from me your trouble'. So all the while I think, I need to reassure him I won't abandon him but that is not even in his psychy even though it's the underlying cause.

However, the recycle... .In my experience a BPD will only ever return if they have something they want from you. (Emotionally, physically, financially, sexually, kids etc) If they get a better offer then they are off, no exception  (well until they devalue the next person for the same thing and you might be an option again).

During a recycle... his emotions settle, they lose sight of the way you made them feel and remember the nice way you made them feel. They haven't really buried the shame because it was never really their fault anyway and anyways enough time has passed for you to hopefully forget what they did. Or the other guy has upset the BPD now so they need you. But my overall guess with my BPD is that he still wants something from me and until he gets it from someone else who he deems better than me he will always return to me so therefor he has to split me white again.

When they return, don't be overly affectionate, don't ask them why they left, don't mention BPD just act like the BPD did nothing wrong! Yes that's right... .coz in my experience you try to hold them accountable and they'll just disappear again. You are their human punch bag.

The good thing is they'll thank you for all this by discarding you again soon! And all the while your burying your emotions because you don't want to 'set them off' and leave again and before you know it your mental health is fooked and they leave you anyway because you can't give them what they want now, your weak and pathetic!

Do not let that happen to you! If you stay then read read read! Never personalise anything they do and be hyper vigilant for them abandoning you. Then ask yourself why you want her? X

Sorry I'm rambling and of course this is not directed at every BPD. Hope I answered your question? I could be in my BPDs mind most times I swear but it's hard to write it all down it becomes second nature... you begin to think like them

[Mistomaple]

Yes. It did answer my question. So even if I did get a recycle and walked the line perfectly while using the tools and knowledge to take care of myself. I'd still get discarded again and be right back here where I am no matter what?


I guess what I've learned from the boards when it comes to sticking around is that the second time around you're carrying the additional weight of everything that went wrong the first time on top of new things that arise. Read, validate, depersonalize etc. Then when they do distance themselves during devalue/engulfment, you don't ask questions, don't pursue and disconnect. You simply look after you and detach emotionally from anything they could be doing during that time, no matter how wrong you would perceive it.


Is that a fair outlook when it comes to staying?

[Lou12]

Maybe someone else can jump in and help out here as I think you have to follow your own path but... .With my BPD I tried being totally 'perfect' according to the literature I read and guess what it never worked! Why because it's impossible to do and I mean impossible!

I always imagine my BPD as a ruler, 0 is engulfment and 100 is abandonment. He has to stay at 50 on this ruler or he triggers but sometimes it's not always you who triggers them yet you can get the blame for that trigger in their mind.

With regard to your question about 'second time around' to me it makes no odds what you do they will find away to devalue you anyway once the feel engulfed or perceive abandonment so it's a pointless task thinking that you should of prevented it first time.

None of it makes sense to the non and guess what it's not supposed to! I have yet to come across a person involved with a BPD who doesn't have to be a doormat most of the time myself included!

Remember it's not about you, therefor it's not under your control. You DO NOT have the ability to prevent their BPD behaviour.

I think you'll get a recycle because she is still acting out her BPD with you. If she had something better she wouldn't play ball she'd just drop you.

But yes misto your on the right track on attempting to keep her if she's like my BPD. Please don't internalise it as you though if it doesn't work!

[shatra]

Lou wrote--

enough time has passed for you to hopefully forget what they did. Or the other guy has upset the BPD now so they need you. But my overall guess with my BPD is that he still wants something from me and until he gets it from someone else who he deems better than me he will always return to me so therefor he has to split me white again.

----Yes, and I would add enought time has passed for them to do a 180 degree shift, and split you as all white.  Sometimes they split you white and then return---otherr times they need to return and thus as you described, will then split you white.  Also, they might not even deem the replacement as "better than" you---they might even be aware the replacement is not as good as you. It's just that they haent split the replacement black -----yet!

[Lou12]

Yes what I meant Shatra is that 'they perceive the replacement is better than you' not that they actually are therefor that person would still be white! X

[rotiroti]

Yes. It did answer my question. So even if I did get a recycle and walked the line perfectly while using the tools and knowledge to take care of myself. I'd still get discarded again and be right back here where I am no matter what?

It's not about the partner doing everything right, until a pwBPD gets better he/she is doomed to repeat the cycle over and over again.

Now the non could adapt and make it "work". As a non has the capacity to adapt and change, they will be responsible for adjusting to BPD situations 100% of the time. A r/s with a pwBPD is truly a lifestyle.

[Mistomaple]

I had some other questions that I needed answers to and you have all been excellent at helping me and I appreciate every bit of it.


As I stated previously, my relationship with my Ex was Long Distance. I feel that this was good and bad. Good in the sense that we did have separation time to cool off and weren't constantly around each other (minus playing online games together and messaging, Skype etc.) and the Bad was the unknown and insecurities that came with it (Her asking what I was up to all the time and imaginary triggers)


My Ex's disorder came through a lot more when I wasn't physically present. Almost 99% of the dysfunction happened when we were apart and were the hardest times for me. However, whenever I travelled over to see her, it was like there was nothing wrong with her at all. There was a time when she came over to stay with me for 2 weeks and left 1 week early because she didn't want to be around anyone and another she didn't want me to come over after I had already taken time off and bought the ticket (It caused a huge prolonged battle) but in the end she finally let me come see her. As soon as I had arrived she looked perfectly normal and was smiling and chatting to me like any other time. She was a little more quiet and distant at times, but generally she was happy I was there and said that she was happy I came and cried when I had to leave again. Even her mother commented that when we are together that she changes from how she usually is.


I'm still piecing together what caused these shifts when really I'm no better than anyone else and certainly not stronger than her feelings?

[rotiroti]

I'm still piecing together what caused these shifts

1. pwBPD have trouble with object constancy - it's like a severe case of out-of-sight-out-of-mind. It's difficult to imagine the person exists when not physically in front of them, therefore they might call constantly, need reassuring texts, etc

2. Long distance is an ideal situation - it let's them assert some control and it will not trigger a fear of engulfment. Or rather, it is less likely to trigger that fear.

3. Fear of engulfment - they fear that whatever identity they hold will be annihilated if they get too close. They will PUSH you away. As they push more the fear of abandonment kicks in. They start to pull you in.

4. Mirroring  - during the idealization phase they copy what they like about us. It can feel like we've met our soulmates and have everything in common. Once they see we've got flaws like everyone else in the world, they will quickly devalue us. Did you have a chance to see your ex with a different group of friends? They will act differently with everyone, I can see why her mom would say something like that.

5. Idealization - the pwBPD is looking for that perfect partner to make their lives better. This is an impossible quest and at one point the idealization will start to crack and soon we'll be devalued. Hard.

6. Intense emotions - pwBPD feel emotions to the extreme. Or rather they feel one extreme emotion at a time, only to have it swept away by the next set of them. That's why when they're raging, there's no soothing them. It could be swept away a few minutes later and it could be as if nothing happened.

[Lou12]

I am the same in that I have a long distance relationship. In my experience it has not yet worked to my favour. Initially it worked for him because it meant that we stayed in the idealisation stage for a longer period. This was due to him not really feeling secure enough with me or knowing me well enough to devalue me. His BPD triggering was not as bad at this point just odd little BPD red flags,

Once he started to develop feelings (I gauged this by how bad his BPD started playing up) he started devaluing me because I wasn't able to give him what he needed. Examples are... .he couldn't have control over me, I wasn't able to sooth his emotions, I wasn't able to be accessed for sex etc.

These things triggered his BPD more and he desperately wanted not to need me. Needing me made him feel like he was defected and made his BPD worse. Consequently he was on a mission to split me for anything he could find.

However I will say that it's been harder for him to split me because he's not constantly around me so I know he's been less abusive to me than he would be if he had permeate access. This could potentially mean that he would have discarded me a good while ago had he lived closer or it could of meant that his BPD might have settled because I was physically there to reassure him. This I can't yet answer.

I do know though that when we were together he was obsessed with me even after the initial devaluation but as soon as I'd leave him he'd trigger again.

Sad thing is I would have moved to be closer to him but his engulfment fears prevented that. The minute I spoke about being closer to each other that triggered him to.

Soo over all I'd say better to be in closer proximity with my BPD but I would have got more abuse and maybe an earlier final discard!

Each person is different even though a lot of BPD behaviour is the same so in your case it's hard to say. They actually seem to have their own pattern so watch for it.

The mood swings are mostly stemmed from abandonment although I do think they have normal moodiness to which I guess leaves us guessing yet again if it's BPD triggered.

I read a great post, I will put it up. I believe it to be insightful.

[Mistomaple]

Thank you both. I've been reflecting over the past day or so about exactly where I am at this moment and adding in your insights and stories into the mix to make more sense of it. I know I'm interested and want to stay and try again, but then I ask myself "What exactly is "staying" in my situation?


If improving a relationship with someone with BPD, the recycling process and inevitable second discard is pretty much their terms and there isn't really much tactic to getting painted white again and getting back in for another round, then what is the definition of "staying?" when you're already out?


If the cycle is idealize, devalue, split and discard on and endless loop, then what exactly is "stay?"


I know my own reasons for wanting to stay put and wait. But if I have pretty much no control or say in the present then staying isn't really much choice either.

[Lou12]

Ironically Mistomaple you and I are pretty much at the same cross roads. Unfortunately I have been at this crossroads a few times already but previously I was of the mind set... .'next cycle I'll try this and see if it works'! Nothing worked and believe me I tried every which way.

So here I am now, I'm not sure if I'm in a normal BPD relationship or I'm not in one at all? Maybe someone else could answer this for us both? Is this just what it is to be in a long distance r/s with a BPD?

I would give anything to be with my BPD as I truly adore him but I have resided myself to the fact that I have no control over it, either I accept the scraps he throws me or I get out! X

[Mistomaple]

I agree with you 100% Lou. It feels like you're playing a game of Chess and have no moves to make. I'm different because I have an opportunity coming up myself. I'm actually travelling to her home country on a short vacation with my friend for a few days. I was planning to go to her house and see if she wanted to go for a Coffee or bite to eat and maybe ease things over and for myself just to "feel her out". My problem right now is that our last conversation left on a really bad note of rage and I'm unsure if it was just that or it was genuine. So here I am again hoping for a message, even though the only time we have spoke recently is when I have made the first move.


My fear is that I reach out and get blamed and hurt again. My other fear is that I do nothing and wait, then maybe she thinks it really is over and then when I see her face to face, I get a cold welcome. Scary stuff

[Lou12]

My bet for you to get the best outcome is by triggering her abandonment by appearing to move on. Then call her when your in her town being nice and asking to hook up, with my BPD it always eased his BPD hearing my voice as opposed to text. That's the best I would hope to obtain with mine. Good luck, regardless of what anyone tells you your going to have to follow your own journey x

[Mistomaple]

Yeah. I think that was going to be my plan of action anyway. I don't think there is any real downside of doing nothing for the time being. She is in Therapy and has told me she doesn't want to engage in any relationship until she can manage herself better, so I don't see any replacement coming anytime soon if she sticks to this commitment. (Not that it helps me much either).


This bad "what if" stuff keeps coming into my mind. But then again all those "what ifs" could still happen even if we were "talking"