Getting the "friend" thrown in my face

[rotiroti]

She is in Therapy and has told me she doesn't want to engage in any relationship until she can manage herself better, so I don't see any replacement coming anytime soon if she sticks to this commitment. (Not that it helps me much either).

Replacement or not, I think listening to her wishes is a good choice... .BPD or not

[Lou12]

I know Mistomaple I feel you dilemma and pain! Follow your instinct...

The horrible thing is Neveragainthanks is that they don't always mean what they. My BPD used to say 'it's over, I don't want you, I want to move on' the next conversation was 'why don't you fight for me harder'! All head recking stuff that never ends!

[rotiroti]

Yes, it's very complicated.

"I hate you -- don't leave me"

"Keep your distance a little closer"

etc

[CharWood]

Don't you love it how BPDs want to have their cake and eat it too... .its like its ok for them to find a replacement, but as soon you begin to move on or talk to other people... .they rage at you. Especially if you are their primary source, one who has been in their life, in a dysfunctional relationship with them for years... .It has happened to me recently.

I mean, they are carrying on in this triangle with you, them and whoever... .circling back to you... .like a vulture... .trying to throw themselves in front of you as you move forward... .but they swear up and down they do not even care about you... .so funny. Its really abusive to us as non BPD ex spouses or significant others... .its like we care about them and have this emotional attachment to them that they could never reciprocate. Leaving a BPD, even if it is them who left you in the first place, is like pulling yourself out of the jaws of life.

[Mistomaple]

Just a little update.


Unexpectedly I came home tonight to find a message from my Ex on my phone after several days of NC. She said "Will stay a strange idea that the last time in the airport was the last time. That we wouldn't see each other again after that, and at that point we didn't know"


I replied "Thoughts are only true if you believe them"


She then said "I had some bad news at the doctor today. An answer I've been looking for for years. All I thought about is how I wanted to tell you"


I said "You're free to tell me if you wish to"


She said "It doesn't matter... ." and I said "Ok"


At that point I left well enough alone and mentioned nothing of what had happened, her raging, burning my things, what she's been up to. None of that. After some silence she said "Right. I'll leave you alone."


It's not much, but that feels like a little personal victory. Simple and clean conversation with no expectation and no drama.

[Lou12]

Yay that's fab news Misto!

How do you feel?

Honestly, I would be tempted to reach out a little here? Maybe something along the lines of 'I'm here for you anytime you wish to talk, you know I care'. I think her last message is saying to you... .'you don't care about me'. Obviously up to you and I would hate for her to just be seeking some validation and then go again so your shout but good luck x

[Mistomaple]

Actually she just messaged me again with "I guess you found someone else and have no feelings for me anymore and don't feel the need to talk to me"

I said "I'm still here. Just getting ready for bed"

She said "That doesn't answer my question"

I said "The answer is Nope"

She said "Nope, as in you don't have feelings for me anymore?"


I simply replied "No"



Then she finally wanted to tell me what the news from the Doctor. Apparently her Thyroid doesn't work. So piece by piece her body has started to not do what it's supposed to and it's made her change into a person she's not. Made her cold and angry. Apparently they did a bunch of tests that show she has a chronic illness and needs lifelong treatment.


I pass no judgment. But I think there is some fabrication there. (I'll just smile and nod) 

[Lou12]

Ha your a smooth operator, keep up the good work happy for you x

[rotiroti]

Nice! Hypothyroidism is completely treatable, granted you have to take replacement hormones (thyroid) for the rest of your life.

I like your responses. I wouldn't even have said nope and just changed the subject or not replied for awhile.

I wanted to point out -- sure hypothyroidism could effect behavior, but see how she shifts her blame to it?

[Mistomaple]

I do see how she has shifted blame onto this (Better that than me). She sent me another message in the middle of the night that said "Sorry. I didn't want to wake you. I just wanted you to know that I love you so much. I love you as much as the first time we met"


It made me smile, but I didn't let my feelings get carried away. Like my Ex said to me once before "I'm like a Wild horse and get scared when I feel cornered. Approach me with a carrot"


On the point that you said you wouldn't have said nope and changed the subject or not replied. I tried both of these things before and just kept being bombarded with messages "You still haven't answered my question", "Why won't you just answer the question" and "I answer all of your questions and you can't answer mine?"


That question she asked wasn't that tough and my statement was true and consistent. But I'll use other methods for more difficult ones.

[LostGhost]

I do see how she has shifted blame onto this (Better that than me). She sent me another message in the middle of the night that said "Sorry. I didn't want to wake you. I just wanted you to know that I love you so much. I love you as much as the first time we met"


It made me smile, but I didn't let my feelings get carried away. Like my Ex said to me once before "I'm like a Wild horse and get scared when I feel cornered. Approach me with a carrot"


On the point that you said you wouldn't have said nope and changed the subject or not replied. I tried both of these things before and just kept being bombarded with messages "You still haven't answered my question", "Why won't you just answer the question" and "I answer all of your questions and you can't answer mine?"


That question she asked wasn't that tough and my statement was true and consistent. But I'll use other methods for more difficult ones.

At this point in my 8 or 9 days of no contact, I would probably kill to hear those words from my ex in the middle of the night. Sometimes I wake up from a nightmare in the middle of the night, or wake up just feeling lonely and pain in my heart and I flip my phone over hoping against hope that there's a message, any message from her. But it's just silence.

[Mistomaple]

Yes Lost. I totally understand what you are saying and I'm sorry you're going through this. I also had and still have horrible nights when I can't sleep and my mind is still engaged. It's an unwanted feeling and sometimes you just want your mind to be at peace so you can at least get some rest. It can be a very difficult thing to do, but it's all about depersonalising this behaviour, learning all you can about BPD and yourself (I attend Therapy and use this site for information and as a support group). I do not know your circumstances and story, so I don't want to assume anything and give you false advice.


One thing that helped me personally is a series of Youtube videos by Noah Elkrief. They helped me understand how to live and be at peace in the present and to love myself a bit more. It's been said over and over, but these periods of NC should be about "YOU" and building your knowledge and strength. That way if you get that contact you want, you'll be in a much better position to handle it.


I'm here for you if you ever need someone to talk to. 

[LostGhost]

Yes Lost. I totally understand what you are saying and I'm sorry you're going through this. I also had and still have horrible nights when I can't sleep and my mind is still engaged. It's an unwanted feeling and sometimes you just want your mind to be at peace so you can at least get some rest. It can be a very difficult thing to do, but it's all about depersonalising this behaviour, learning all you can about BPD and yourself (I attend Therapy and use this site for information and as a support group). I do not know your circumstances and story, so I don't want to assume anything and give you false advice.


One thing that helped me personally is a series of Youtube videos by Noah Elkrief. They helped me understand how to live and be at peace in the present and to love myself a bit more. It's been said over and over, but these periods of NC should be about "YOU" and building your knowledge and strength. That way if you get that contact you want, you'll be in a much better position to handle it.


I'm here for you if you ever need someone to talk to. 

Thanks mistomaple, I appreciate it.

I've been through this once before and built up myself and my knowledge and she came back. The cycle repeated even using SET and validation. It was better this time around for a while or so I thought. I guess I'm feeling right now like what's the point? Build myself up again, expand my BPD knowledge even more, only to have it happen again? I want the cycle to stop, but I don't want to walk away from her forever. Wait for her to contact me and come back or leave her behind forever... .both options inevitably result in some kind of pain. I'm hoping for a third chance. Once more into the fray, one final test of who I am to her. If I fail so be it, I'll know I'm just not the one. But all I can do right now is wait and hope for her to reach out. Day 9 of no contact. I think I have a lot more to go before she remembers me.

[Mistomaple]

I don't think anybody can ever be "the one" until the pwBPD seeks help. My position is kinda odd in the sense that my Ex is in Therapy and isn't seeking out relationships. So at least for the time being there is no "New supply" coming in and I have been the one pushed, pulled, painted black and then painted white. Without some form of therapy the cycle would continue. If you're certain on staying then you need to prepare to be whatever it is your pwBPD needs you to be, whether it's good or bad while at the same time, taking good care of yourself.

[Mistomaple]

Just another update of what's been going on. It's been a pretty positive day talking to my Ex. It feels like more familiar ground. She started the day asking questions like ":)o you still think of me?" and I'd say yes. "Everyday?" I'd say yes. This turned into a light hearted conversation of us laughing over pictures of herself from the age of 13 all the way to 24.

Then she said "I just have to tell you something... .I like talking to you. But if you have feelings for that girl then I don't think it's a good idea. The pain is still very fresh and I don't want anything to do with that"

I simply said "I enjoy talking to you too" which got the response "Are you saying you have feelings for her?"


I tried to shift the conversation away to something else, simply because of the pushy nature of it and the fact that the answer really didn't matter (her feelings would make the facts if she wanted to). I tried to turn the convo over to one of our friends who is having trouble with his own girlfriend over FB jealousy. But it didn't work, my Ex just said "Just answer the question please" I just gave in and said "No" just to keep her happy. Funny part is that our friends girlfriend was getting mad because my Ex liked one of his posts and my Ex had to remove it, saying "His dysfunctional, overly insecure, psycho girlfriend needs to calm the ___ down"  (Pot calling the kettle black)


We started talking about how insecurity and trust issues are not healthy for a relationship and it's something that has to be worked on. She found that kinda funny and said "Lol. That's ironic XD sorry"


I was using my friends relationship to draw attention to ours without actually talking about our relationship. I said "They still try and make it work at least. There is love there. It can become healthy if they work on themselves" to which she replied "Should I be offended now?  " (She's very wise to my antics)


This is when the conversation took an interesting turn. She said "There's a possibility we could be together again. But it would mean we have to talk a lot of things out some day. Like, a lot"

I said that that was a conversation for another time. She then asked me "Would you even want that?" and I said yes, but it's not up to me.


She then said "Well I meant what I said. I'm not with anyone, I'm not growing feelings for anyone nor will I. We took a break so we could work some things out. For me that meant exactly that, and not hooking up with other people" she then went on to say what her progress had been day to day and that she didn't sleep with anyone and is trying to make the best of her illness (Dunno if she meant the BPD or Thyroid) and then the conversation just went back to casual talk and joking around.


It's really odd. I sighed and felt like "Yeah. This is what I know. This is the position I can put my knowledge, tools and my stronger self into practice". For the first time In a long time, it's felt like I have my girlfriend back. But I still tread carefully and take everything with a grain of salt.

[LostGhost]

Just another update of what's been going on. It's been a pretty positive day talking to my Ex. It feels like more familiar ground. She started the day asking questions like ":)o you still think of me?" and I'd say yes. "Everyday?" I'd say yes. This turned into a light hearted conversation of us laughing over pictures of herself from the age of 13 all the way to 24.

Then she said "I just have to tell you something... .I like talking to you. But if you have feelings for that girl then I don't think it's a good idea. The pain is still very fresh and I don't want anything to do with that"

I simply said "I enjoy talking to you too" which got the response "Are you saying you have feelings for her?"


I tried to shift the conversation away to something else, simply because of the pushy nature of it and the fact that the answer really didn't matter (her feelings would make the facts if she wanted to). I tried to turn the convo over to one of our friends who is having trouble with his own girlfriend over FB jealousy. But it didn't work, my Ex just said "Just answer the question please" I just gave in and said "No" just to keep her happy. Funny part is that our friends girlfriend was getting mad because my Ex liked one of his posts and my Ex had to remove it, saying "His dysfunctional, overly insecure, psycho girlfriend needs to calm the down"  (Pot calling the kettle black)


We started talking about how insecurity and trust issues are not healthy for a relationship and it's something that has to be worked on. She found that kinda funny and said "Lol. That's ironic XD sorry"


I was using my friends relationship to draw attention to ours without actually talking about our relationship. I said "They still try and make it work at least. There is love there. It can become healthy if they work on themselves" to which she replied "Should I be offended now?  " (She's very wise to my antics)


This is when the conversation took an interesting turn. She said "There's a possibility we could be together again. But it would mean we have to talk a lot of things out some day. Like, a lot"

I said that that was a conversation for another time. She then asked me "Would you even want that?" and I said yes, but it's not up to me.


She then said "Well I meant what I said. I'm not with anyone, I'm not growing feelings for anyone nor will I. We took a break so we could work some things out. For me that meant exactly that, and not hooking up with other people" she then went on to say what her progress had been day to day and that she didn't sleep with anyone and is trying to make the best of her illness (Dunno if she meant the BPD or Thyroid) and then the conversation just went back to casual talk and joking around.


It's really odd. I sighed and felt like "Yeah. This is what I know. This is the position I can put my knowledge, tools and my stronger self into practice". For the first time In a long time, it's felt like I have my girlfriend back. But I still tread carefully and take everything with a grain of salt.

If this is what you want I'm truly happy for you mistomaple. I'd give just about anything to be having that kind of exchange with my ex. In fact we were having that kind of exchange while we were having a week long "break". And every sign and indication was there that we were going to be getting back together. And then she flipped, out of nowhere. Suddenly I was nothing. I can only assume somebody messaged her or showed an interest in her and I've been replaced in every way.

No contact is hard. I know it's supposed to be a time for working on ourselves and healing. But it feels like an alternate reality... .how is it normal to be with someone for years, all the memories, all the laughter, all of the shared experiences, the tears, the joy, the dreams, the deep intimate conversations... .to nothing? Silence. It's the worst kind of pain.

First time we broke up last year I pursued hard and made a fool of myself. I know better this time around. I "think" from everything I read that going no contact is the best way to get gem to reach out to you again down the road. I hope it to be true this time around.

You're doing very well with your communication with her. I was doing the same during my break from her. I just don't understand why she flipped that last day. We were so close to reconciling.

One of the last things I said to her was I thought for sure it looked like she wanted us to get back together, and she said "yeah I was thinking about it, but not now, not after this fight. Now we will never get back together". Followed by "but I think we'd make great friends". I told her I can't be just her friend.

Nothing since. Is it really over?



Good luck mistomaple, I hope your story has a better ending than mine.

[Lou12]

Aghh LostGhost it's really horrible I know to have no control when you want something so bad!

Does she have a pattern to her behaviour that may help you to gage if she'll be back? I mean try and remove all logic like you were advising a friend and what would your instinct tell you?

I'm in the same situation and fear he's gone for good! It's killing me but their is sweet FA I can do!

[goateeki]

Her throwing the person in your face seems like she wanted to bait you into jealousy. When you replied "Hope he treats you right"  she probably  took this to mean you are okay with her new person and not jealous... .she may have wanted you to be jealous.

    I have heard of BPs telling the ex to go out with new people, encouraging it, and then when it happens the BP gets jealous and rages.

Diagnosed BPD ex wife is crazily passive aggressively jealous of new girlfriend.  It shows in the most pathetic ways, too.  Makes me realize what a weak, limited person she has always been. She also rages if the kids don't call her when she wants to be called, etc.  Everyone has to toe her emotional line.  What a garbage human being.

[LostGhost]

Aghh LostGhost it's really horrible I know to have no control when you want something so bad!

Does she have a pattern to her behaviour that may help you to gage if she'll be back? I mean try and remove all logic like you were advising a friend and what would your instinct tell you?

I'm in the same situation and fear he's gone for good! It's killing me but their is sweet FA I can do!

Yes Lou it's a lot of pain and rough nights wondering who she's with now or if she'll be back. She does have a pattern of recycling her exes but only once and then she usually moves on as far as I can tell (or they do). I've already been recycled once... .so now I'm fearing the worst that she's done for good. But maybe I'll set a new precedent, it's hard to say.

I hope you get what you want Lou.

[Daniell85]

My ex husband had thyroid cancer before I met him. He had the thing out by the time we were married.

The side effects of being hypothyroid were weight gain, physical sluggishness, depression, being tired, mentally slow. He took synthroid and livened back up to be his usual annoying ADHD self.

Now if she also has ADHD, it could explain why she is showing a few other tricks like hyper obsessing, not being focused, being jumpy, irritable, bouncing 5 checks a week stuff.

[Mistomaple]

My Ex does have ADHD. I did wonder why I never really saw that much Hyperactivity in her. She had problems with focus at times, but that was about it. The rest was sluggish and tired as you said.

[Nextinline]

I just sat and read all 6 pages of this thread.

I have just gone through my second major recycle and at this stage, after 10 days of no contact, the abusive texts and emails started. The rage went for days and has just started to calm a little. What I found was when I was non-commital and detached in my responses, the rage became stronger and the abuse more cruel.

At this point I am still the blackest of black and all of the latest set of problems are caused by me.

There is no acceptance of any responsibility or contribution to the problem by carrying on a "relationship" with her supposed ex after I had proposed to her. We have a relationship going back more than 4 years with my BPD.

What is so sad and depressing to read threads like this is that it is hard not to believe that 95% of BPD relationships are terminal. No human can live their life on the back foot just waiting for the next cycle of abuse and then having to swallow it without defending oneself. I would almost say 99.9% of RS are doomed but I have some level of optimism.

The other sad thing here is that every action and comment that has been brought up in this thread is identical to every comment and action that I have experienced over my more than 4 years. Even the last separation where she was with another guy, the mere thought of the BPD knowing that I may have had coffee with another person would cause all the same accusations that have been stated here. It is almost like this issue is a behavioural virus that imprints its code on every one it touches and they just become behavioural clones of each other.

But, the final and most depressing scenario with these BPD behaviours if that their family seem to condone it and just accept it by saying "Oh, that's just the way she/he is. He/she is just emotional and passionate about what they think." They just don't see the problem and there is no way that anyone can intervene to help these people in some way.

That is the thing that I find the saddest. That there is really no way to help them and that the only way to help yourself is to try and use the tools until you reach your final point of compromise and walk away, carrying the pain of all the hurt that has been cast upon you for the duration of the relationship.

BPD in a person that you love more than anything is the ultimate lose/lose tragedy.

[Mistomaple]

Yes Next. It seems like the worst punishment one could endure and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I have come to realise the truth of it all and my options. Faith is the only thing pulling me forward, my Ex is in therapy and is working on herself bit by bit. Every ounce of me wants her to grow and develop healthy coping mechanisms and perhaps understand that things aren't always black and white, at least to the point we can hold together some sort of relationship together. The other reality is that I'm willing to let her go if at some point she strays from her path and abandons hope herself. It saddens me, but my boundary is that if she loses sight of herself and picks up a new replacement, then that's when I've decided to do the honourable thing for myself.


She hasn't done this yet and I have no idea if she will or will not. Until then I'm willing to be whatever it is she needs me to be, positive or negative, caretaker or punching bag. I'll watch over her until she pulls herself up or until she falls.

[Mistomaple]

Update for today


Had a very intense interrogation from my Ex (Which I handled amazingly well)



At the end I was cornered into an Ultimatum about the other girl I had made friends with



My Ex said "As long as you're friends with her there's no chance of getting back together. You say you want to get back together. But from the moment we start talking and are supposed to repair the trust that we broke, you start with keeping secrets about a girl who you have used against me. Maybe you don't see it yourself that you did that, but you did. So you can stay friends with her, that's fine, but that will be my exit"


I replied back "I can tell that it may seem like I'm choosing someone else over you. That would be very painful to be around when you still love someone and try your best for them every day. I love you and want this to work out and I mean exactly that"


She wrote back "I'm not gonna change my mind on this. Sorry"


So it looks like it's standoff time

[Lou12]

Hey Mistomsple, maybe someone could advise you better but I would be the same as your BPD ex if I loved someone and I thought another girl was a threat to me! So if a non feels this way I expect it would be even more upsetting to a BPD! Just a thought for you to bear in mind. Every girls wants to be the centre girl in their partners eyes BPD or not...

X

[Lou12]

Nextinline... great post and unfortunately very true!

X

[Mistomaple]

That's all well and good Lou. But the fact is she's not my partner right now. She's my Ex and there is still no guarantee she'll be my partner again. She's still talking chances and maybes.

[Daniell85]

Tbh, I would feel the same way as your ex. You are saying you want to get back together with her, but you are making friends with another woman to the degree that you have lied by omission to your ex about her. Then you say it's none of her business what you are doing.

Huge red flag. This is the type of shady behavior my boyfriend gets up to and why we are not talking. As soon as I see that behavior in him, I am instantly done with trying to fix anything, and he really does need to remove that girl from his life.

I am not saying that you can't have women friends. But you are playing a game here with keeping your options open while trying to get your ex to re-engage.

She isn't the only one talking maybes.

[Lou12]

So if that's the case Mistomaple what exactly are you trying to achieve? If you want the girl and she is giving you straight (and very valid) reasons why she thinks you can't be together then eliminate the reason. Now if she was asking you to choose against her and your mother then I would understand.

Remember your up now emotionally, don't forget how you felt when you were down.

Honestly if I stipulated that condition to my ex boyfriend and he even took more than a second to think about it when he's known that person 2 minutes then I would not be happy.

Your shout...

X

[Mistomaple]

Guys. I get what you're saying. I had no problem removing the other girl from FB. I did it to show my Ex I cared. (Even though the reverse situation with adding her Ex caused opened the door for our split)


Anyway. Something unexpected happened when I did that.


I said "You're the one I care about. I want to be with you again"



Shockingly she replied "... .bahh no. That's not the way to go. That doesn't make me feel better at all. Just say you were cleaning out your friendslist and you accidentally deleted her and add her back... .Dick move from me. I thought that would make me feel better but it doesn't. You should be able to be friends with whoever you want otherwise I'm not better than Johns girlfriend" (My friends gf with insecurities)


I am speechless