Affairs?

[tired-of-it-all]

My wife is an undiagnosed BPD and is very, very sexual addicted.  She has many of the characteristics of BPD.

She has had many of the signs of an affair in her behavior; however, I have never found tangible proof of an affair.  No cell phone records to unknown numbers, no emails to the wrong people.  Some unaccounted for time but not a lot.

Can she be this good an hiding?  Am I creating something from nothing?

Have any of you guys had these warnings or felt something is wrong and yet later found it to be true?

[Runnerboy25]

In my case my unBPDex was emotionally cheating throughout our relationship , and admits to once, probably more, physically cheated on me with the guy (all 3 of us worked together) she is now engaged to, 6 months after we split. In hindsight there were signs, most noticeably an almost addiction to texting people and an unwillingness to discuss who she was texting, although whenever I saw the names flash up it was family, friends or her ex (that's a whole different story), until she told me she had cheated I had never considered the possibility.

In your case I think the key question right now is why are you worried about the possibility and what level of trust and honesty is there within the relationship. Have you discussed this with your partner? If they said there was no problem would you trust that answer?

[tired-of-it-all]

I don't trust her at all.  Whatever she told me, I would not believe.  If I caught her red handed, she would deny it.

It just that she was addicted to porn for years.  That seems to have stopped.

Her sexual desires were always over the top, she seems to have stopped that also.

She is now working so I don't see her a lot.  I do have access to her phone records and there is nothing there.  She mainly works alone but does have two male coworkers that she has a brief turnover with when she come on duty (individually not at the same time.  different shifts).  I know them and don't believe that they would do anything with her.  Also, she is very unattractive lately.  She makes no effort to look good.  

To summarize, I guess she seems to have changed her hypersexual behavior concerning porn and sex with me.  It is hard for me to believe that she has actually changed.  She is very, very distant with me.  That is okay because I really don't want to deal with her.  Nevertheless, I don't believe that she has changed.  Therefore, I have to wonder "What is she up to?".

To reiterate my answer to your question:  I don't believe anything that she tells me.  She will lie without compunction.  

[Runnerboy25]

Ok, I guess my concern here is that you cannot prove a negative ie she cannot prove that she is not having an affair, no one ever can, which is why typically trust is so important.

I guess I would ask, what would make you comfortable that there is no affair? There's also a point here that you should be careful to not invade her privacy, even if her behaviour and attitude might make this feel justified or necessary.

Sorry for the tough questions it is my way of showing support. I'm sorry you feel this way, I hope we can help

[tired-of-it-all]

There is nothing she can say that will convince me one way or the other.  I guess I was hoping to hear from people on this board who have had similar experiences who could give me some insight.  Someone who, like with my wife, had a spouse with no tangle indicators who was later caught in the act.  Or someone with no indicators who eventually realized that they were not in an affair. 

Lots of people out there.  Just hoped that their experiences might clear some of my fog.

In either case, thanks for your support and comments.

[Runnerboy25]

That makes a lot of sense and I agree that sharing here is a very good step and as more people read your post others with more similar experiences than me will share their thoughts and hopefully provide helpful comments and ideas. My experiences are very different so I'm possibly not best placed.

Wishing you all the best and I hope things move in the right direction for you

[frayedseamstress]

Is there any unaccounted-for money? Could she be using a pre-paid phone?

If it seems not, then I think you might want to give her the benefit of the doubt regarding this one. My boyfriend of 6 years has BPD. For awhile he was seriously addicted to porn and had a really high libido, but during a phase of feeling especially low about himself, he all but lost his libido entirely and it was really strange. There was no affair going on. In fact, he hardly left his bed. Your wife's unkemptness, as well as lack of evidence supporting the affair theory, lends me to think that she might be going through a similar sort of depressive state. As she comes out of it, though, be watchful. She might try to self-medicate through the depression once she gets a bit more energy, whether it's through sexual escapism or alcohol, etc. Try to ask her what she's going through, too. It's worth a shot to give her the chance to open up without making any accusations. My boyfriend used to just snap at me, but now that I have gotten better about really listening without trying too hard between the lines, he's gotten more accessible, and also much more honest.

[tired-of-it-all]

Thanks Frayed.  You may be right.  Yes she could be using a prepaid phone without my knowledge.  Nevertheless, the other indicators may mean depression and therefore no affair.  I also appreciate the warning about when she feels better.  She might then behave badly.  That is the kind of insight that I was hoping for when I posed the question.

[CrazyChuck]

So was the affair real? Last week I woke my wife up and asked for sex. She said we just had sex yesterday and it was crazy good. Well "we" had not had sex in weeks. The previous day she took off work, and was so angry at me for posting a selfie on facebook, she refused to answer the phone or texts all day. It sucks!

[tired-of-it-all]

CC,

Man I am sick of the insanity that we have to live in.  Mine is probably not having an affair right now.  She is probably depressed like someone suggested.  Who knows what tomorrow may bring.

In the past there have been lots of indicators otherwise.  People should not have to live like this.  When will I have had enough?  Why do I tolerate this?  One reason may be the crazy good sex like you described.  Are we addicted to that ourselves?

The examples from others help me.  They help me to analyze what is going on with my wife.

[Herodias]

If you are tired of the insanity... .then try living without it. I think I was caught up in it more than I know. I think I was liking the drama. It has taken me awhile to adjust to normal behavior. For me also, I think I am all sexed out. Yes ,it was great, but as he got more and more into porn, it just felt like he wanted me to duplicate what he was watching and I felt like an object. That's not real love... .I am sorry, "great sex" is not worth all of the abuse and heartache. Not to me any more... .

[LivingWBPDWife]

Bro,

I don't care how good sex is, there are 100000000 better suitors - that would be the LAST thing I care about. Seriously. I am stuck because we have a baby girl, that's it, otherwise, I would bolt in a microsecond. Here's something to think about... .there is ALWAYS someone out there, hotter, smarter, sexier, sluttier, (hunkier for the women readers) etc. But, NO ONE should put up with being abused daily, the stress of the things you and all of us are going thru. Thus, there is always someone BETTER in all respects, ESPECIALLY the ones that count -- like someone that actually cares about you and that you can count on.

I am just over 40, I have slept with my share of women, some good, some bad, but its pretty much all the same ( unless someone really sucks! )-- what makes it unique is to connect to the person and go deeper and make a mental connection as well as physical -- "love" for lack of a better word. BPDs simply can NOT love us the way we need to be loved. Its twisted like a pretzel man. So, we will never feel that connection that is normal and part of being together, married, whatever. Its like a yet to be released PlayStation 5 behind a glass pane inches from your grasp -- but you will NEVER get it, unless of course, they get better, which means years of therapy, and $100K later, maybe you can deal with them and get a portion of what you want?

So, unless there is something holding you back that is REALLY important -- I guarantee you, you can find someone else, that's better and nicer.

Hey, think back to every person you broke up with in your life, you got thru them, and you probably think back WOW what was I thinking? They were probably just normal nutty, like everyone, but BPD is a DSM V certified scary mental illness.

I feel like I am locked in a damn cage with a tasmanian devil, and can't get out -- no better yet, remember Star Wars when they dropped Luke in Jabba's basement with the Rancor? that's what my BPD wife is like! I am just trying to survive, and if I can help her I want to, but otherwise, I am just counting down the clock 18-21 years until my daughter grows up, who knows if she's like me, maybe she can help mom?

wow -- I just thought 20 years of this -- just shoot me now... .

[ForeverDad]

My 15 year marriage had become increasingly troubled and eventually imploded.  I recall my lawyer back then responding to my frustrations, "well, you married her" and I defended myself, "she wasn't always this way!"  And she wasn't.  At some point I clung to the thought that if we had a child then she'd have something to be happy about.  Didn't work, I didn't know:  Having children, as wonderful as they are, doesn't fix deep marital problems, it just complicates them emotionally, legally and financially - and especially if/when the relationship implodes.

Moving along to the topic of this thread, it was as my marriage was crumbling that my spouse started accusing me of infidelity.  Over and over when she was ranting and raging.  Wasn't true, not at all, but looking back, I recall others warning me that they suspected her of projecting her distorted perceptions and contemplations, if nothing else, onto me.  One of the most common traits of BPD is Blame Shifting.  Blaming and Projections are typical.  If that happens to us then we need to understand the disordered person feels she/he simply has to prove that you are worse than her/him.

As Rb25 wrote, there may be no way to prove whether there are affairs, infidelities or emotional affairs occurring.

Ok, I guess my concern here is that you cannot prove a negative ie she cannot prove that she is not having an affair, no one ever can, which is why typically trust is so important.

My ex too had her lows and extended downtimes similar to what FSS noted here.

My boyfriend of 6 years has BPD... .during a phase of feeling especially low about himself, he all but lost his libido entirely and it was really strange. There was no affair going on. In fact, he hardly left his bed. Your wife's unkemptness, as well as lack of evidence supporting the affair theory, lends me to think that she might be going through a similar sort of depressive state... .It's worth a shot to give her the chance to open up without making any accusations. My boyfriend used to just snap at me, but now that I have gotten better about really listening without trying too hard between the lines, he's gotten more accessible, and also much more honest.

Now I'd like to comment here on additional posts:

BPDs simply can NOT love us the way we need to be loved. Its twisted like a pretzel man. So, we will never feel that connection that is normal and part of being together, married, whatever. Its like a yet to be released PlayStation 5 behind a glass pane inches from your grasp -- but you will NEVER get it, unless of course, they get better, which means years of therapy, and $100K later, maybe you can deal with them and get a portion of what you want?

Beware of making such blanket statements.  I write this because part of the BPD traits is a Black OR White mentality, no gray in between.  Reasonably normal people have to see that gray areas are at least potentially possible.

I am stuck because we have a baby girl, that's it, otherwise, I would bolt in a microsecond... .

I feel like I am locked in a damn cage with a tasmanian devil, and can't get out -- no better yet, remember Star Wars when they dropped Luke in Jabba's basement with the Rancor? that's what my BPD wife is like! I am just trying to survive, and if I can help her I want to, but otherwise, I am just counting down the clock 18-21 years until my daughter grows up, who knows if she's like me, maybe she can help mom?

wow -- I just thought 20 years of this -- just shoot me now... .

In most cases we cannot change our spouses.  Family court won't even try to change them, courts deals with them as they are.  As the old saying goes, You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.  Our relationship partners would have to want to change or see the need to change.  Can they set aside the intense Denial, Blame Shifting, emotional dysregulation?  Long term?  Nearly always it takes someone trained, very perceptive, with a measure of authority and generally a professional who can be emotionally neutral.  That's part of the reason that over time we couldn't reason with our partners, increasingly their baggage of emotional perceptions kept growing due to our close emotional relationship.  It was so bad because we were so close emotionally.

However, I have a point to make here... .if our partners choose a path toward recovery, then great, but if they refuse, then we still have the option to make our own choices for our own future.  We don't have to stay in an unhealthy or dysfunctional relationship, at least not forever.  We can choose to end the dysfunction.

I admit that with children it is harder to separate your lives.  But guess what?  When it is that bad then in most cases it IS the better choice long term.  I have quoted this in other threads here:  Living in a calm and stable home, even if only for part of their lives, will give the children a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  Nearly 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment - your home, wherever that is - away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

As they say, if the eggs are cracked, make an omelet.  You didn't cause the dysfunction, but you can find practical ways to deal with it all - from a safe (or a less unsafe) distance with a solid court order under your belt.  Too often 'staying' can mean we continue appeasing, compromising and sabotaging ourselves.

While we can encourage you to step forward and we offer our experiences, our suggestions and strategies, we do leave it to you to make the actual decisions what you will do and how you will do it.  Just give the peer support here serious consideration.  There is a huge amount of collective experience here.