Accusing me of messing with her mind...

[TheRealJongoBong]

I suppose I could use some advice. My uBPDw was pretty normal on Sat. We had a good talk and we again agreed again to go to Turkey. She was good yesterday morning too, but in the afternoon started accusing me of sneaking into her room and taking her purse only to put it back later to mess with her mind. This morning is "Turkey us off, you lie to me about everything, you stole important papers from me." Then she asks me to take her to the emergency room. I ask why and she says "I don't have to tell you anything." She then grabbed the dog, her bag, and drove away. She hasn't so far returned my calls or texts.

I texted her daughter the story and asked her to call me if she hears anything. I'll be sure and call her too. I'm 90% sure that my wife is fabricating a story, but at what point do I think it's serious and start calling around to emergency rooms? I also can't but think given her past behavior she wasn't trying to set me up by not telling me why she wanted to go.

Her daughter just got back to me. They have the dog. My wife told them not to give me any more information.

[Samuel S.]

Making up things, accusing you unjustifiably, and running off may be symptomatic of something bigger than BPD. I am reminded of my father who suffered from Alzheimer's or dementia. He made ups things. He accused my mother unjustifiably. He ran off. If I didn't know any better, it sounds like your BPDs may be showing signs of one of these terrible diseases.

Indeed, seeing that she is your wife, calling up the emergency rooms of hospitals in your area is probably the best thing to do. If she isn't there and if she doesn't reappear at your home, calling the police to report a missing person is probably the best bet based on when the police consider a person missing.

How is her daughter reacting to her mother's behavior?

I am sorry that you are going through that. She truly is acting irrationally.

Please keep us informed.

[OnceConfused]

My friend:

That is a very weird behavior. Personally, I think she has more than just BPD. More than just irrational, SHe seems to suffer some sort of delusion. Delusion is a serious matter.

Samuel is right. You need to call the police so that you have something on records about her delusion. Like we discussed before, she could turn around and put you in jail with her fabricated stories. If i were you, I would begin to document these episodes by writing the time and incidence on a note book and make sure you inform her daughter (as potential future witness or the police)

You might want to google alzheimer and delusion.

Be extra careful now, esp with her seemingly delusional episodes.

[TheRealJongoBong]

I agree her behavior is delusional and, believe me, I am documenting things. I've got audio recordings of all the weird stuff that goes on, including our good talk on Sat and her crazy yesterday morning. I have been texting both my sister and her daughter and her sister every time something like this happens. I email updates to my family. I don't know if this counts but I also write stuff down here. If nothing else it makes me less crazy.

I got a text last night from her daughter, saying that she would not be staying at the house for the next few nights, and sorry for the vagueness. My wife called me up this morning from a hospital, saying she's fine now, and that she wants me to move out of the house, etc. Never did say why she went or anything. If I had to guess I would say she still thinks everything is my fault, and that nothing is wrong with her.

I hope I can get more info from her daughter today - she doesn't like to use her phone to call me because it's on her mom's plan but often will talk to me from her work phone. I don't think her daughter ever had plans to become caretaker for her crazy mother, so she's probably in a little denial and shock. I hope she's not too messed up by having to grow up around her.

It's kind of scary. A year or two back my wife would dissociate about once a month or less, the rest of the time she was pretty normal. Now it seems she's rarely normal and is mostly off in some dreamland. I was hoping (again) that if she got medical help that things might get better. I'm now pretty pessimistic that any good will come out of this last episode, but I guess we'll see.

On the other hand, this is giving me a good opportunity to get my ducks in a row. Most of my important files (paper and electronic) are out of the house, I even found my passport and birth certificate (she put them in the recycle bin!). I've determined how much money of mine was brought into the marriage, and my 401K paperwork for that period of time is ordered. Most of my stuff is in boxes so I can pretty much leave any time. I'm reconciled to losing a large chunk of my retirement savings - that money just isn't worth staying in a nut house for.

[OnceConfused]

my friend:

with her demand that you move out of your home, I think her mental health has progressed for the worse. My concerns level for you has gone from 4 to about 8, on the scale of 10.

first of all, I would not comply to that request, because she could thrash the house and blame it on you. Secondly, ask her d if indeed she checked herself into a hospital for mental breakdown. You can use the pretext of concerns for her well being and force the d to share with you that information. Next time if she is gone without letting you know for more then 24 hours, you shoud file a missing person report. This way you can cover your A** ,so to speak.

Look into the situation where she can be claimed as incompetent. Under that scenario, You might want to check with her inability to sign the divorce decree.

Is her name on the deed of the house? . If she is not , then I would begin the process of selling it , and then funnel the proceed elsewhere prior to the divorce filing.

[TheRealJongoBong]

No, I'm not going to move out just because she asks. She's done this before and my response was "you don't like living with me, then you move out".  Of course she didn't and probably won't this time either. I would love to ask her all sorts of questions right now but she is not communicating. I am keeping track of what's going on via her daughter who's a good kid. I was thinking about the police report route yesterday but because of talking (well, texting) with her daughter decided it wasn't quite the time.

The house is in both of our names so there will be no quick solution there. There will also be no quick solution to the rest of our finances as mostly everything is in both of our names.  I can only keep careful track on the accounts and let this unfold as it will. I don't want to play hardball yet as I think there is still a good chance we can go through mediation instead of the full-on lawyer route. That is of course assuming she will come back to reality for awhile. Again, time will tell.

I agree with everyone that this seems to be more than BPD. Her daughter informed me that my wife is going to stay at the health facility probably through Thursday. Hopefully I will know a little more by then.  

OnceConfused, thanks for all the advice on all of this. Your concern is justified, and I need to be very careful. I will update as I learn more.

On a positive note, in one of our conversations I recorded this weekend she stated that our relationship problems came to this point because she couldn't push me around any more. I was quite happy with that!

[TheRealJongoBong]

Here's my update for this morning. My wife called me last night, and explained that she is in the psych ward and they probably won't let her out until Thursday.  She says she went to the hospital because she thought she was being poisoned and that her face was burning (I am, of course, the poisoner). Then for some reason she didn't explain, she decided it would be a good idea to tell them she wanted to burn our house down. That one statement sealed her fate.

I haven't spoken to the doctor yet but I am supposed to have a consult with him today. They wanted my wife to take antipsychotic medication to help her with her paranoia; I urged her strongly to do what they tell her to do, as otherwise she's going to be in there a lot longer.

it will be interesting what the doctor says, but this is not going well. I have to look at the positives:

1. She is in treatment - that is a huge step forward. And she basically volunteered for it so that's good too. Both her sister, her daughter, and my sister thinks this is a positive step.

2. I can negotiate from a position of strength - I can tell her I want to stay married BUT she is going to have to continue treatment and extra therapy also; I cannot continue in this relationship fearing for my safety.

3. Given her (documented) behavior over the last few weeks I'm pretty sure I can get a restraining order against her if necessary, even get her kicked out of the house. I hope I don't have to go this far.

I think this story is a very good lesson for those dealing with BPD or other disorders. This stuff is serious! There's no saying when or if the PD is going to tip into full-fledged delusions and psychosis. Please be careful and consult with professionals early and often.

[Samuel S.]

Thank you for the update! It is a positive and a relief to know that she is in the psych ward. It also shows that she realizes that she has a problem. If she were in denial, she would not be there at all. So, like you say, there are positives under these horrible circumstances, and thank you for the advice.

I don't know if you mentioned it or not, but along with anything legal you may wish to pursue, it would be a good idea for you to talk with a T about how you feel about all this. All you want is a loving mate, and you clearly have not had one. Boundaries are good for your protection; however, when you have boundaries, your emotional needs cannot be fulfilled. Thus, talking with a T to clear your heart is extremely important. You are important, and you clearly have not had an opportunity to do so due to being on guard due to your BPD.

[OnceConfused]

Thanks for the update which confirms my fear that her mental problem has progress far worse into psychosis and delusion. In a way, I am glad that she confesses to dr that she wanted to burn the house down so that they can stop her and treat her appropriately.

Still , I think you should continue to be HIGHLY on guard as people under psychosis and delusion have no concept of right or wrong anymore.

Be more careful now than ever. For you physical safety.

[TheRealJongoBong]

Wow, what a crazy couple of days. I went to the hospital and had a consultation with the psychiatrist. He said my wife was having a psychotic episode and paranoia. He upped her anti-depressant dose and also put her on a low-dose antipsychotic. He then had her come in and we all had a talk - she was pretty testy considering that I was the one who was trying to get her out of there. The doctor was mainly trying to determine whether it would be safe to let her out on Thurs. He wasn't very sure until the end of the consult when she dropped her defenses a bit and started to sound a little more normal.

On Thursday I went back for another consultation at noon. My wife was making more sense, and was starting to see that at least some of her behavior lately has been a little strange. The psychiatrist seemed optimistic and told us he still saw life in our marriage, and also said she could leave the unit. We let the bureaucratic wheels turn and finally got out of there at about 2:30 or 3:00 with a list of psychiatrists for her and medication.

She was pretty normal for the rest of the day and was also that way this morning. Rest assured, though, I am not relaxing my vigilance at this point. Some of her behavior last night was not good - she still believes that I've been doing things to her to mess with her mind (e.g. stealing her purse, putting it back) and lying to her left and right. She was walking around this morning muttering something about me sneaking around, although immediately after spoke to me in a very civilized way. The medications are supposed start showing their full effects at about 4 to 6 weeks, I just have to wait and see.

[OnceConfused]

Did the Psychiatrist indicate her conditions could be improved and she will be back to normal or she will be on med for the rest of her life?.

You might want to google her conditions to see if this could be a permanent deal.

It sounds very scary. Being delusional is not ok, but delusional about you is much more serious because that could lead her into doing bodily harm to you (if she thinks you will harm her).

[TheRealJongoBong]

The psychiatrist didn't get into any of that, in fact it seemed he actively avoid areas like that. My impression was that he works at the hospital, seeing patients at the hospital, and his job is to get them out of the hospital and no more. She is supposed to go see a psychiatrist outside of the hospital for continued treatment. She was pretty gung ho about it on Thursday, but didn't do anything about it yesterday.

I want to clarify what my wife said as to how she ended up there, after listening to her tell the story to someone else. This is mainly so I don't forget. She did indeed go to the emergency room because she thought I was poisoning her. The ER doc asked here if she intended self harm and she said no, absolutely not. The ER doc then asked here if she intended to harm anyone else, and she said she was so angry she wanted to burn the house down with me in it. As she was telling this story, she finished up saying that it was a mistake that she ended up in the psych ward, that the ER doc wrote that she intended to cause me harm, and that she never had any intention of doing so, and that she didn't do it, so what's the problem?

This dodging of her personal responsibility for her actions is unfortunately very typical.

[Sunfl0wer]

Are you able to determine if she stays compliant with her meds?  Are they where you can see them?

[TheRealJongoBong]

I have not been able to physically determine whether she is taking them or not, but the way she presents herself is different. Also, her eye movements are much less pronounced when she's on the antipsychotic. Towards the end of the day (she says she takes them in the morning and when going to bed at night) when they wear thin her eyes start darting around more. My goal this week is to make sure she has made the appt with a psychiatrist as her meds now will only last about 14 days.

[TheRealJongoBong]

Pretty sure she already stopped. She's very much back into the "you ruined my life" state, and accused me a few times of trying to poison her again. She is also not communicating with me like a day or two ago, and started locking the door to her room again. I was thinking something was going to give because she wanted to go to Turkey with me again yesterday.

Sunflower, her meds are in the medicine cabinet but the antipsychotics are very small so difficult to count.

[Sunfl0wer]

I was just asking because it seemed like this is the first time she was perscribed something and it is common for people to take their meds, then feel symptoms resolve, then conclude they do not need meds.  Often they do not give credit to the meds for symptoms subsiding.

I just was hoping you'd be cautious and aware.

I'm sorry tho that I do not know what to do about it.

[TheRealJongoBong]

Plus the fact that she never wanted the meds in the 1st place, she only took them to get out of the psych ward. I was reading up on paranoia last night too, those afflicted by paranoia are typically very poor at keeping on their meds as from their point of view it's just another form of control. ]

Well, today is a new day. My wife will either be the same, better, or worse when I get home. For now I'll choose better.

[Samuel S.]

Considering her behavior is recurring, are you journaling what she is doing, or do you need to report anything to her doctor that she demonstrates that her behavior is recurring? Also, does she need to see her doctor? Whatever your answers are, please be sure to protect yourself.

[Sunfl0wer]

It sounds then that she will only likely seek help if it is compulsory?

Are you prepared for the next psychotic episode? 

What is your personal safety plan?

[TheRealJongoBong]

I keep up on my documentation every day. I was going to ask her yesterday whether she had made the psychiatrist appointment but it was clear that I wasn't going to get an answer on that question due to her mood. Later I wanted to confront her on whether she was continuing the meds but she had already disappeared into her sanctum. Like it or not I need to talk to her today on these subjects, if it is possible.

She had booked an appt with a therapist before her last episode and had to cancel it. Hopefully she has rescheduled. I'll try to get information on that also, but if she's as communicative as she was yesterday it's going to be difficult. The important one, in my opinion, is with the psychiatrist. That's the one I suspect will be the biggest problem.

She has had three episodes in about the last three weeks, so I have to expect there will be another soon. I'm as prepared as I ever was. I started recording again yesterday after a break over the weekend when she was doing better. I still have my emergency bag packed and ready to go, I have all of my sensitive papers out of the house, and if I had to I could move out in under a day.

I sure hope I can get some answers today.

[Sunfl0wer]

Something I've observed... .

Some of us, when our partner is in crisis... .We tend to focus intently on our partner. We think... .What is the partner doing?  How can we, "the non" keep things in control?

I know for me that a common coping mechanism is that when things were tense between ex and I, I poured lots of energy in finding the right psych for SD, finding the right MC, etc.

Sometimes our focus "on them," is our own minds way of "protecting" us from the reality of focusing on ourselves and the situation that we are in... .from our perspective.

What I mean is: Sometimes it feels better for me to assume the role as my parner's recuer.  I have focused on the fact that, "he needs me."  This focus of mine on him is what caused me to neglect myself... .and also my son.  I Neglected my needs, wants, and at times even neglected MY safety.  

Sometimes focusing outward has been somewhat of an escape from my own inner turmoil.  My own feelings about the possibilities of the r/s ending, and my partner's escalating behavior, and my SD desires to harm us, etc.  

As long as I stayed in crisis mode... .then I could prevent the next stage:

the desolation of our r/s.

Living with a woman who is psychotic and believes that you have intended to cause her harm is a very dangerous situation.  Add to that the possibility of non compliance with meds, noncompliance with psychiatric care, non compliance with psychological care... . 

 Extremely dangerous.

I will now be blunt:

TheRealJongoBong, your first responsibility in this life is YOUR safety.

Her med compliance, and psychiatric, and psychological follow through is ultimately out of your control.

(I apologize if my communications were not clear earlier, my focus was not on the meds for you to be in charge of her compliance, rather I meant it as a warning to watch out... .as you may likely be in a worse position soon... .worse than before the hospitalization)

You appear stuck in a crisis and are trying to salvage the moment of clarity that you saw as her potential as when she was med compliant.

Please do everything within your power to create a safety plan for yourself.  

Be ready to leave at a moments notice.  Have a bag packed etc.

Know who you will call to get her help, and you.

Make sure you do not get trapped within the house, always be sure there is a clear easy path to an exit for you.

Decide some boundaries ahead of time... .and how you will enforce them.  It is better to plan for this now vs in the heat of the moment.

In all honesty, even with all these safeguards in place... .If you were my son in this situation, I'd tell you to leave.  At the point a person is both psychotic and sees you as their threat... .I see no good you can do until she independently gets help and can feel safe with you consistently.

I don't feel that I have ever spoke so harshly on these boards.  I truly hope you can hear that I care.  I truly hope that you can consider my words.

Edit: i apologize.  I do now see that you indeed have indicated you have made serious prep with bag and papers etc.  very good.  The above was written with me apparently not seeing that paragraph, but only the one before that. 

[TheRealJongoBong]

Sunfl0wer, thank you for your concern, I do appreciate it. OnceConfused has told me the same thing several times, that I'm playing a very risky game and that my safety is the first thing I should consider. I am here to say that I agree with both of you almost completely. There is not a day that goes by that I drop my guard around my wife. Every time I talk with her I gauge her mood and apparent sanity. I listen to her very closely to see if any of her perceptions/judgements have changed from the last time, be it 5 hours or 5 minutes ago. I typically also review our conversations daily from the recordings I make, which are primarily there for evidence should something go south.

In all of my watching and analysis of her behavior I really have yet to see ANYTHING that poses a direct threat to me physically. Sure, she has called the police on me twice. Both of these incidents had no basis in fact and not a shred of evidence to back them up - they only showed to the police that she tends to make false accusations. She has also accused me of ridiculous things like trying to poison her and the dog, and infidelity, and... .All of these are either empty posturing or provide further evidence of her instability. She has never in all the time I've known her come even close to physical violence, nor has she done any type of physical self-harm. I do want my wife to get better and I would be in no position to do that if I am not around.

So that being said, I can clarify a few things from yesterday.  My wife is actively looking for a therapist, so that's good. She has not looked for a psychiatrist yet, when I asked her tone of voice said to me that she knows it's necessary but she does not want to do it. I'll have to work with her daughter to keep nudging her in the right direction. I figured out a way to unobtrusively and quickly count her antipsychotic meds (I take a picture of the container with the pills spread out and count them later from the picture). The one thing I know for sure is that the pharmacy gave her more pills than was stated. I'll know this evening whether or not she's actually taking them.

Her behavior when taking the meds is very similar to her behavior when she smokes pot - her behavior stabilizes considerably. In fact, these last few weeks of psychotic episodes coincided with a time when she was not smoking pot, as was her elevated behavior the day before yesterday. Going nuts when NOT smoking pot seems to be a feature with BPD individuals, judging from some of the comments I've seen here.

My concern right now is her symptoms of paranoia and that she has also started detecting odors that don't seem to be there. Both of these symptoms are those associated with late-onset schizophrenia. Her focus on her unusual religion could also be an indicator. I know that only a qualified psychiatrist could make this diagnosis, so that's another reason I want her to go.

[OnceConfused]

you are right. I think your wife with her psychosis needs a psychiatrist , not a therapist. I would make her see a psychiatrist, MD, as soon as possible to document her illness and also to protect yourself from false accusations. I would set a dead line by which she must find a psychiatrist. By the way , how hard is it to find a psychiatrist near you ? NOT HARD AT ALL, unless you live way out in the country.  So the excuse of not finding one is ludicrous.

Of course you cannot make her see a psychiatrist, but you have to make it real. That if she does not seek medical helps, then you will proceed with the divorce.  Your advice must have teeth.  Her issues can lead her to self harm or harming others. I would act fast and with full control of the situation.