Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
April 28, 2024, 10:05:01 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Experts share their discoveries [video]
100
Caretaking - What is it all about?
Margalis Fjelstad, PhD
Blame - why we do it?
Brené Brown, PhD
Family dynamics matter.
Alan Fruzzetti, PhD
A perspective on BPD
Ivan Spielberg, PhD
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Accusations of non-consensual sex  (Read 368 times)
elessar
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 391


« on: September 25, 2015, 02:23:34 PM »

I was going to post this under a new profile, because I am ashamed that I am still writing about her over 2.5 yrs after joining this site, and over 10 years after being in this on/off thing with her. She contacted me in mid-March, right after her wedding broke off two weeks before her wedding day. She had decided to get married last July to someone else after knowing him about a month or so (arranged marriage). In the beginning I was distant, and we got a little close in June, but it was mostly distant and we would still get into arguments a few times whenever the past came up.

In early August she told me she has to go to Vegas for a conference. I instinctively asked if I can join you (and regretted it!). She said yes. But over next few weeks she got angry at me about something else. And she is now talking to someone else about marriage for past few weeks and wanted me to know she does not want a romantic trip.  But all September she was extremely nice and chatty with me (I believe because trip was coming up).

We went last week and had two beds. Thursday we slept separate. Friday morning I sat next to her on her bed and while talking affectionately put an arm on her over her blanket. She said it might not be a safe idea, so I went back to my bed. 5 minutes later she came over to my bed and cuddled. Eventually we were making out and she was naked. She told me her brain is telling her we shouldn't be doing this, but she cannot say no. She asked about condoms, and I said I do have them, and asked me to take off my pants because she couldn't feel me, but we never had intercourse because I never explicitly heard it from her and I didn't want to make a false move and have her get angry. Friday night we were in separate beds watching TV. But she wasn't watching so I went and sat on her bed and asked her what she wants to watch. When I got up to leave, she said I can stay. So I sat down. Since she wasn't watching TV at all, I shut it off and laid down to sleep. After a few minutes she asked if I am sleeping on her bed, and I asked whatever you wish. She just laughed a little and said nothing, and after a few seconds came closer and we cuddled. Nothing else happened and we cuddled and fell asleep. Saturday night we went to a party from her conference and had 4-6 drinks each. After the 4th or 5th drink she started treating me much more nicely and soon started dancing with me and kissing me a little. Later when we left she was walking fine but sometimes we were holding hands because sometimes she was being a little tipsy. Once in room I helped take off her dress. And then she removed her bra and panties saying she is feeling very hot. She was talkative about party and seemed alert to me. I was on her bed lying next to her. After a while I asked her if I can kiss you and she said yes. A while after that she asked "are we going to have sex", and I asked do you want to have sex. She turned towards me and kissed me and soon we had sex. She was talkative during it, even asked me if I love her (which is what she asks every time we have sex after she comes back). It just felt as normal as every other time. A few minutes into round 2 she asked me to get off because she was exhausted, which I did, and we both fell asleep. All of this was very normal for us.

Sunday all day she was in a good mood. She brought up sex from previous night a few times. She thanked me for taking care of her, and then said "although I thanked you already last night". I never liked that sentence because for 5 years she has treated sex as a favor to me or a gift to me or repaying me for something nice I did. She did ask if we used condoms, and she did not remember me helping her going to pee. Else she remembered everything from the previous night. Later on she said she wants to take a nap after we reach Grand Canyon, and not do sight seeing right away. When we got there and I went to change, she was under her blanket and left half her bed open for me. When I got in, she wasn't wearing any pants and told me she has been horny all day and had been wanting it since morning. She said she is breaking every promise she made to herself about not doing this with me. We had sex, napped, then went out to the Canyon and had a great time together. During dinner we got into an argument and it led to topics of the past. After learning about SET strategy, I tried to be neutral but it kept going and going from the restaurant to the hotel, and while packing her clothes she just turned her face halfway towards me and told me with a half-smirk on her face "you know, last night wasn't consensual. I didn't consent to the sex. I would have never said yes if I wasn't drunk." (already a contradiction). I was too shocked to reply. She went to bed, and woke me at 1:30 for night photography. I was emotionally exhausted after what she had said and didn't want to leave, so she said we will go at 4am, which we did. She was fine then, and also in morning, but she was a little upset we didn't see sunrise which was one of my main goals. But after her comments from the previous night, I had lost all interest in everything. Then she asked if we are going to a certain place, and I said no because it was 4 hours away. And she completely lost it and started screaming and abusing me that I never listen to her and she never said no to not going there. Back in early August, I wanted to see that place but she wanted to come to the current place because it was more popular. I told her I have been sending you schedules for a month, which she never looked at. So she never knew what I planned. And that is one of our most common fights - she doesn't plan or help in planning, and finds faults in later fights in anything I had planned. For 5 years I have asked her, what do you want to do and she never has an answer. It frustrates me because I feel I am the one planning, doing what I might like, and she uses that against me. Well, after finding out we aren't going there her screaming wouldn't stop, then she went back to the non-consensual sex accusations and now it was all about how she was drunk out of her mind, couldn't walk properly, was in no position to give consent, didn't even remember going to bathroom, and that I took advantage of her condition. After she went on for a while I finally snapped and told her - I would never do that to you or hurt you, I asked you every step of the way, the way I ask you about everything and I got your consent every time. But if you really think I had non-consensual sex with you, then it is a grave crime and you should go call the police and I will fight you in court. Her reply was - "I only wanted a sorry. You can't even accept your mistake and say a sorry."

I have been so scared of her rage over last 4.5 years, I never ever plan or do anything without her permission. After 4-5 hours of tantrums and screaming and silent treatment (I was silent too), she started talking a little and was getting a bit fine towards the night when we had to take the flight back. I had calmed down enough to tell her I didn't do anything to her on purpose and that I honestly felt she was completely aware and was consenting throughout the act. But if she feels otherwise, I profoundly apologize. But that just drove her angry once again and her story for the next 12 hrs till we parted ways was I didn't respect her by bringing condoms. She didn't want anything romantic to happen, and I disrespected her by bringing condoms, and she is done with me forever (something I have heard a billion times... .). But even if we didn't have condoms in past and needed it around her ovulating time, we would go buy it or take other precautions to prevent pregnancy. Unfortunately, she has complained many times in the past when she knows I have condoms. She sees it as me expecting sex and that is an insult to her because she considers herself a religious and practicing Muslim.

Few hours after parting ways, she messaged me about the finances for the trip and texted any photos of me she had taken. She paid for hotel, and when I had landed last week she told me I can pay for everything and we will do the math later. I had sent her a file with whatever I had paid on my credit card and divided it in half. And now her angry texts were about me being petty and cheap and charging her for pizza and coffee and other little things. I had forgotten to put down what I had paid in cash, and now she was mocking why don't I put that in my list too. I have no desire in charging her for little things. I have spent thousands of dollars on her, because she doesn't believe a woman should pay when she is dating a man. I only followed her instructions of writing down and dividing later, and even that led to her anger. And now for the last 3 days she has been silent. And deleted me from FB for the umpteenth time (which I knew would happen the moment she had added me anyway).

I have given her too much power, but nowhere in my actions on Saturday night do I think I took advantage of her or that she had no idea what was happening or was incapable of consent. 4 years back after a fight she once compared me to her uncles (who sexually abused her for 3 yrs) saying I always want to have sex. While dating, we used to have sex ~3x a month (whenever we spent the night together) and I never thought that was too much. Even if it was, I couldn't understand how wanting physical intimacy, while dating, can be compared to sex abusers. I don't understand if she really feels I took advantage of her, or she said that to win the argument and put the dagger even deeper inside me, or she said that because she was feeling guilty as she didn't want to have physical relations with me, or it was her excuse to again leave me as the trip was coming to a close and she had the new guy, which is what she does every time before she leaves. And that is exactly what I had asked in June which made us distant again "would you take a dump on me and leave when a new object of interest comes along?"
Logged
ForeverDad
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18133


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2015, 10:36:23 AM »

This is a risk going forward.  A comment I've made before is, "If it's been contemplated or threatened, it will happen given enough time and opportunity."  While I've generally applied that to accusatory DV behaviors, she does seem unpredictable enough that at some point or with a trigger she could 'Blame-Shift' the fault-finding onto you.

Be very careful not to let her document you apologizing for that contested night.  While "I'm sorry... ." can be an attempt to work things out in the relationship, from a legal standpoint (I and most here are not lawyers) someone could interpret that as an admission of guilt.  I recall my lawyer saying his main job when first hired was to sit on his clients so they couldn't say anything more that could get themselves into a worse predicament then they already were.  I think that's a good idea for you.  While you do not gift her any comments to be documented against you, save any communications you get from her that would weaken any claims she might potentially make against you.

However, she did feel 'horny' and have sexual intimacy with you after the night she complained about and she hadn't been drinking.  If you have texts or emails from her that document it, then save them, they should weaken any later claim about some sort of non-consensual intimacy.

I wonder if a comparison could be made toward a somewhat similar scenario.  In at least one religion that I'm aware of, when one spouse finds out that the other was unfaithful (affair or sexually intimate with another) then at that point the innocent spouse has a choice, either (1) continue intimacy and not have a religious basis to divorce or (2) stop intimacy and view the marriage as failed and have religious basis to divorce.

As I said, perhaps not a direct correlation, especially legally, but the point is that your friend had a choice to stop intimacy with you if she truly felt violated or abused.  (1) Continuing to share the hotel room and (2) continuing to have sexual intimacy afterward ought to nix any complaints she might make.  But then again, the laws aren't always fair or logical.

Of course be careful what you express to her.  Don't wave a red flag in her face, she could and probably would over react.  Odds are, this will fade into the past.  She may still hold it against you in future contact now and again.  That's why you really ought to decide now whether you should let the relationship lapse and end it.  With the rising risks of her perceptions lashing out at you, you probably need to keep distance between you and avoid getting drawn back in yet again.  That is the secondary issue you're dealing with, you have let yourself get drawn back into her erratic and unpredictable emotion-driven world.  You probably should set a boundary for yourself about not getting close to her again and then stick to it so you don't heighten the risk to sabotage yourself.
Logged

Indyan
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated for 15 months, court 4 months ago
Posts: 812


« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2015, 01:34:30 PM »

A comment I've made before is, "If it's been contemplated or threatened, it will happen given enough time and opportunity." 

wow, what a wise statement!

In my case this really showed to be true. Sorry I can't provide any advice on the subject of this thread, just showing support.
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!