1st interview with CE scheduled

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi guys,

My sister's first interview with the CE has been scheduled for this month and a psych exam.

Is that normal for both parties to be ordered to do a psych exam when the CE was ordered because of his history of mental instability?

I think I read somewhere it is, but would like to hear from some of you who have been through it.

Any other tips on how she should be preparing, especially when he's trying to set off subtle bombs through the kids (alienation) and have her lose it  "look crazy" before the interviews?

We already know he is coaching the kids on the evaluation telling them she's going for full custody which she is not - even though the Judge ordered the records sealed and he would be violating an order if there was concrete proof he was speaking to them about the CE.

I know she has anxiety about what he's coached the S17 to say in the CE as there is a ton of alienation going on.

[Hard Rock]

Hi guys,

My sister's first interview with the CE has been scheduled for this month and a psych exam.

Is that normal for both parties to be ordered to do a psych exam when the CE was ordered because of his history of mental instability?

I think I read somewhere it is, but would like to hear from some of you who have been through it.

Any other tips on how she should be preparing, especially when he's trying to set off subtle bombs through the kids (alienation) and have her lose it  "look crazy" before the interviews?

We already know he is coaching the kids on the evaluation telling them she's going for full custody which she is not - even though the Judge ordered the records sealed and he would be violating an order if there was concrete proof he was speaking to them about the CE.

I know she has anxiety about what he's coached the S17 to say in the CE as there is a ton of alienation going on.

[ForeverDad]

There is so much to say, can't all be done with a post or two.  So you'll get quite a variety of responses from our members.  Ponder them well, much can be used or adapted by your sister.

Her son is 17, within a year he will be an adult.  Since acting-out PD divorces often take many months if not a year or two, he will likely be an adult by the time the decree is final.  So while custody is not a long term issue for someone his age, the remaining months are still important.

Side note, if she passively lets both stbEx and son malign her in court without firmly stating the reality, then the court may not make much of an effort to treat her fairly.  Both passive and aggressive or not the way to go, assertive and firmly are appropriate.  Even though custody will be a brief issue soon to be over, she still has to deal with financial issues such as assets, debts, (brief) child support, possible college obligations, interim spousal support and possible alimony (generally short term or no more than half the length of the marriage).

Frankly, it's not normal for children to hate or oppose one parent unless something is extreme, such as abuse.  For example, a parent can be an alcoholic or have minor quirks but a child will typically still love the parent.  For a child to paint one parent white and the other black is not normal unless there is real basis to do so.

If son is not in counseling already, she should ask the evaluator and court for son to participate in counseling.  (Courts generally love counseling for the children.  But be aware any order for counseling could probably end when he turns 18.)  It seems he's been alienated from mother and that is a very serious matter.  She has a small window of opportunity to see how much her relationship can be repaired before son attains adult status.  Any counseling sessions must be handled by a very perceptive counselor or therapist, not one who can be conned and manipulated by S or stbEx.  Read up on Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison and "Family Bridges" program.  Also, Craig Childress has recently advocated a novel approach classifying alienation as an attachment issue and a form of child abuse, how well that becomes accepted by the mental health community remains to be seen over time, but it does seems to be a much better approach than that used by Gardiner's PAS unsupported framework that many professionals have resisted over the decades.  She should look into both resources.

I recall my CE report summarized, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can... .Mother should immediately lose temporary custody... .If Shared Parenting fails then Father should have custody... ."  So if you have a good evaluator and a good court then it should recognize whether one parent is able to reasonably share when the other can't or won't.

However, the CE should get the full picture and even if S17 can't be helped much at this point, D11 can really benefit from a good evaluation and her own effective counseling.

I recall one common behavior of an alienated children is that they blacklist all the target's relatives.  While normal children may not like a few relatives, it is definitely not normal for a blanket dislike.  Has S17 been doing that?  If so, then that should be brought to the CE's attention.

[Hard Rock]

Thanks, as always, Forever Dad.

Great advice to work with.

S17 is not blacklisting other relatives yet - but has no interest in positive activities with mother or anyone on our side of the family unless he "has no choice".  Just a general disinterest, but when his father wants him to load and haul furniture in a Uhaul for 5 hours in the heat - no problem.  S17 is also using the situation - he will not lift a finger around his Mom's house - she is afraid to push right now because of the upcoming CE so Stbx has severely undermined her ability to parent.

This is the same S17 that we know has increased anxiety and increased desire to abuse substances, increased "I don't give an F attitude" because he is probably forced to do shady things (spying) for his Dad and the pressure to cut off his Mom must be tremendous right now.  We know some "coached hatred" will come out from the S17 in the CE as well. 

He was in sporadic therapy this past year (therapist not strong or skilled enough) and it was ineffective because Stbx was coaching him what to say, how to expresss his feelings (disgust with Mom, desire to spend more time with Dad).  My sister was about to start him with a new therapist as part of his relapse prevention program, but all new therapist now have to go through the CE's approval.  She will ask when she gets in there.

I believe S17 is truly struggling and it must create massive anxiety for him (hence the drive to use drugs).  He aligns with and also deep down afraid of his Dad.  He doesn't want his wrath / and is also seeking approval him.  Maligning his Mom and doing his Dad's dirty work is the way to get approval - he doesn't know he's being used.  He also does not want to cut off his Mom because he knows deep down she is the stable one, he loves her and he knows she is the one who will help him with his life  and becoming a healthy adult.

I will definitely look into Family Bridges. She has final decision making (tie breaker).

How does she ask for the counseling or mandating of it in CE, politely?

Also, we have many documented examples of his instability, erratic co-parenting, inability to follow the temp schedule this past summer unless it was for his own needs, etc.

How many of these should we put in a binder for the CE with a summary sheet? 

10, 20, 30?

[livednlearned]

Hi Hard Rock,

My situation was slightly different -- the third-party professional involved in my case was a parenting coordinator. I learned here, and from my L, and my T, to focus as much as possible on what was best for S17. It was my mantra.

That doesn't mean that I avoided talking about N/BPDx, just that I was very careful about how I framed those discussions. "N/BPDx has struggled with alcohol, and I am relieved that he says he is cutting back. He mentioned in the deposition (handing PC the transcript) that he does not believe he's an alcoholic, but does think he has a problem with portion control." This allows me to say something positive about N/BPDx (good for him, he's trying), while also showing evidence (deposition transcript), while also making it clear the alcohol concerns me when it comes to our child.

For some reason, we judge people when they have only bad things to say about someone. The CE hears warring parents all the time, and the forensic work to figure out what is going on is very challenging. My PC eventually testified in court, and I was able to hear in her words what she thought about me as a parent. I was willing to look at my own shortcomings, I was judicious about using the PC to solve every problem, even though N/BPDx was paying the majority of the cost, and I was always focused on finding a solution. I think a lot of parents might go into these evaluations thinking that if they say enough bad things about the other parent, they will sway the CE or PC. My experience is that being reasonable and using evidence to back up my statements was far more effective.

I also used key words although I'm not sure if they were effective. I would say, "walking on eggshells" and "collusion" and "splitting" but never personality disorder or borderline. I'm not a professional who can make those diagnoses, but I can certainly describe the behavior, and show evidence of that behavior.

As to the number of pages -- when my L and I walked into the deposition, she brought with her the giant 3 ring binder filled with 1.5 year of emails from my ex. The opposing L saw the binder and realized his client was not the squeaky clean loving dad he thought he was. Our deposition was relatively short. L told me she brought the binder as a prop. She had her notes and knew what emails she wanted to use as evidence, but she also wanted the opposing L to see the volume we were talking about.

Create a binder and section things into tabs -- abusive emails, stonewalling, non-compliance, alienation with the court order. Put it all in there. Your sister can tell the CE she isn't sure what is relevant or not, and ask the CE to determine whether there is anything in there to be concerned about.

I have heard other things mentioned here about CE visits that might be appropriate -- having pictures of family and S17 up on the walls (if this is normal for you) tells a thousand words.

My PC came highly recommended -- she is the person who trains PCs for our state and takes her ethical oath very seriously. Both Ls involved in my case approved her, and the judge referred to her as the best PC in our court system. She was extremely professional with me, but I did take a few signs as encouragement to elaborate on my concerns. Again, always framed with some kind of positive, "It's important that S14 has a good relationship with his dad. I would prefer that S14 doesn't wear the same clothes 4 days in a row, I'm also aware that N/BPDx may be trying to figure this kind of thing out. If you have any suggestions, please let me know what you recommend. Kids have said some mean things to S14 about odor and he is already struggling socially." That kind of thing.

Hopefully you have a good CE. That really makes all the difference.