Dealing with an impasse...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Has anyone else had an issue in their marriage/rs where your partner is doing something/not doing something, that really affects how you feel about them? I've tried to change MY view, but I'm finding that I can't, and also I've come to the conclusion, after talking about it with several people, including my T, that I have every right to feel the way I do about this issue.

Now, in my case, it's something BPDh won't do, or hasn't done. He has four adult kids, and the three daughters hate me, and I want him to defend me, or at least stop letting them disrespect us both. They won't be around me, so he goes off with them solo, and I feel his going, when he knows they won't allow me to come, is just him being weak. HE wants it to stop, he's always wanted me included, but he hasn't done anything, or set any sort of boundary, and so it just keeps happening.

All this, along with his PD, has really made me lose respect for him. I mean, I have never let my two teens disrespect him, but I've been put through the wringer with his three girls for years now, and I'm just beyond fed up. I don't care about them, or what they do(I can't control them, I more than realize, nor do I want to), but I sure do care about how BPDh conducts himself. I want to respect him, and the fact that he shows such little RESPECT for me or our marriage is becoming a deal breaker. It affects everything: my love of him, my respect of him, my desire to have sex with him... .

Now, I know impasses can be about anything, and yours is probably totally different, but what did you do, and were you able to get past it? I say we are at an impasse because I've done all "I" can do in regards to this situation, and I'm finding it intolerable how BPDh behaves in regards to it. I can only change or control ME, but I can't change how I feel about all this, no matter how much I try. I don't even want to anymore.

It's funny because I thought the BPD behaviors might end our marriage, but I find it far more likely that it might be his tolerance of the abuse from his kids/lack of respect for me and our marriage, and the fact that he made me choose between him and my son. That's another one that keeps cropping up for me, and making me think "what kind of person am I living with"? Who does that?

I'd be interested to know what impasses you've had in your relationships, and if they became dealbreakers, or if you found a way to live with them(and I don't see how I'm going to be able to)... .

[Ceruleanblue]

Has anyone else had an issue in their marriage/rs where your partner is doing something/not doing something, that really affects how you feel about them? I've tried to change MY view, but I'm finding that I can't, and also I've come to the conclusion, after talking about it with several people, including my T, that I have every right to feel the way I do about this issue.

Now, in my case, it's something BPDh won't do, or hasn't done. He has four adult kids, and the three daughters hate me, and I want him to defend me, or at least stop letting them disrespect us both. They won't be around me, so he goes off with them solo, and I feel his going, when he knows they won't allow me to come, is just him being weak. HE wants it to stop, he's always wanted me included, but he hasn't done anything, or set any sort of boundary, and so it just keeps happening.

All this, along with his PD, has really made me lose respect for him. I mean, I have never let my two teens disrespect him, but I've been put through the wringer with his three girls for years now, and I'm just beyond fed up. I don't care about them, or what they do(I can't control them, I more than realize, nor do I want to), but I sure do care about how BPDh conducts himself. I want to respect him, and the fact that he shows such little RESPECT for me or our marriage is becoming a deal breaker. It affects everything: my love of him, my respect of him, my desire to have sex with him... .

Now, I know impasses can be about anything, and yours is probably totally different, but what did you do, and were you able to get past it? I say we are at an impasse because I've done all "I" can do in regards to this situation, and I'm finding it intolerable how BPDh behaves in regards to it. I can only change or control ME, but I can't change how I feel about all this, no matter how much I try. I don't even want to anymore.

It's funny because I thought the BPD behaviors might end our marriage, but I find it far more likely that it might be his tolerance of the abuse from his kids/lack of respect for me and our marriage, and the fact that he made me choose between him and my son. That's another one that keeps cropping up for me, and making me think "what kind of person am I living with"? Who does that?

I'd be interested to know what impasses you've had in your relationships, and if they became dealbreakers, or if you found a way to live with them(and I don't see how I'm going to be able to)... .

[unicorn2014]

Hi cerulean,

You know from my posts the impasse I am dealing with. In my situation, I keep talking about it: to my partner, dad, social worker, in my meetings. In addition I keep evolving my language about the situation. I am very clear with my partner about what bothers me, about what I want him to do, about what concerns me. In addition, and perhaps this is the key, I try not to accuse him of things and even harder I try not to blame him.

Your situation sounds really hard. My partner is a good stepdad to my daughter which is one of the reasons I stay in the r/s. I work my dbt skills around this, such as pros and cons of staying.

[Ceruleanblue]

I've already listed all my pros and cons, and I know why I'm staying, and why I want the marriage to work. I think what the real issue is,  is that he's comfortable in a miserable marriage, and I'm NOT. I mean, I want a happy marriage, where both partners feel valued and respected. I know that's harder with a PD involved, but it's not impossible. I show him respect, even though it's hard to feel much respect as things stand. I judge everyone on their ACTIONS, not just their words, because actions are king. His actions, and lack of boundaries, and lack of valuing me as a wife and person, has been seriously lacking. Heck, he isn't even having self respect! That has done immense damage to the marriage, but I think it could be fixed.

I'd think he'd want to fix it? I mean, how he's conducted his interpersonal relationships has clearly not worked, and I think he's come to realize that, but he's still doing the same things, and expecting different results. Plus, he used to always rope me into it, and I'd know better, but I'd do it to appease him. THIS is where I've set a boundary. Because I know what he's doing won't work, and I'm just going to be left dealing with ugly fallout(his kids being hateful to me, or refusing to let me come to family functions), I'm taking a hard and fast boundary about ME.

Now, I'd like him to stand up for himself and us, but that isn't a boundary. That is something he has to want to do, and I think it would just be him standing up for himself, and being a good parent. Your kids grow up, but you never stop being their parent. The least you can do as a parent is show them you deserve to be respected. Heck, that is just a basic human right! I get that respect is earned, but he's been a very good parent to them. An overly tolerant, "friend" type parent, which is where I think his kids got the idea that they have a "say" in how he lives his life. Talk about enmeshment, and drama triangles, aye, aye, aye!

I can't control anything or anyone but me, but I do know I have not created this impasse. I've tried changing my feelings, but I think that just showed me that in order to do that, I'd have to buy into wild dysfunction, and that my feelings are NORMAL, and HEALTHY.

We are stuck, but it's because of his actions or inactions. I'm working on being healthy, and making healthy choices, but I think marriages are only as healthy as the unhealthiest partner, maybe? I don't know.

[patientandclear]

CB, your feelings are shifting, and it's important even just to honor and notice that, as you are.

Separately, you hope he will change and believe it would be logical for him to change. I'll just say that change is slow and hard. Just look at how hard it is for us to change fundamental reactions and impulses even when we've had the benefit of a ton of resources, validating support, and insight. Now add in the defenses and projection and dissociation and denial of BPD.

[OnceConfused]

They won't be around me, so he goes off with them solo, and I feel his going, when he knows they won't allow me to come, is just him being weak. HE wants it to stop, he's always wanted me included, but he hasn't done anything, or set any sort of boundary, and so it just keeps happening

Being a 2nd time married man with blended family situation, I can feel that you are frustrated with your H about his children's attitude toward you. I must say that blended family is not an easy situation, each of us brings BAGGAGES to the journey. I thought being a nice person, I could handle the blended family easily. Oh boy, I was wrong and luckily we took a class in dealing with blended family and that opened up my eyes to THE COMPLEXITY of HUMAN BEINGS. Children from blended family come in with hurt from losing the original family structure, so they often express resentment and anger toward the new family. I think it is best for you to lower your expectation about the whole thing and should not blame your H for being weak or whatever in dealing with his children. You will be much happier. Do you that 80% of 2nd or 3rd time marriage dissolve because of children. So stay away from the children's issues unless you want to be a part of that statistics. Personally, I want my wife to be my children's friend and not their mother. By the same token, I don't get involved with my step children's life issues, I let their bio parents to do just that. So far, that strategy works well.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, I know all the scary statistics about second marriages, and the divorce rates. I can see why! I've never tried to be his kids' mother, as they were all grown when I met them(with the exception of step son, who was then 17). All I ever wanted was to be accepted as BPDh's wife, and allowed to attend family functions. Period.

My kids accept BPDh, but of course, he has huge issues with my son, my youngest. It's such a huge double standard. BPDh and his kids are all about control and dominance, and always getting ONLY their way, so they are all very hard to deal with. They don't want to accept me, so they just won't.

It's been four years, and I'm sick of it. Every holiday is a nightmare, every birth, every birthday party I'm excluded from. They are having constant get togethers, and I'm excluded. I think they enjoy the whole ":)ad can come, but Ceruleanblue can't". They are mean, they are selfish, and they are controlling. They definitely are PD.

All I want is for BPDh to have healthy boundaries, but I know that's HIS choice. I've decided I matter though, and actually, I always thought I did. I've made huge sacrifices(not living with MY son), to stay in this marriage, yet he's made NONE.

I just can't wrap my head around that anymore.

[Notwendy]

CB, I hope you will indulge me in looking at your situation from a perspective my T, and codependency sponsor would take with me. I recently spoke to our MC about something bothering me, and her response was "lets see what resentments you may have about this". ( it is already OK with my H if she meets me individually over this.

Resentments can come from us giving up something important to us, with the expectation that the other person will do something about it ( give up something, appreciate it) but this is faulty thinking because they may or may not do this, and when they do not, we can feel resentful.  Even without this, when we give up on something that reflects our core values, is precious to us, for someone else, we can feel resentful and that resentment can create unhappiness for us.

This is not to excuse your H from any responsibility for his behavior, or his kids, or your feelings about the marriage which you should honor.

It is to point out something that maybe you can do about the situation because you can't do much about him or his kids choices.

One of my resentments was moving with my H for his job, thus giving up a job I loved and also there were few prospects for getting the same kind of job. My H's career flourished, mine did not.

Had I not been so co-dependent and able to stand up for something I cherished, I may have tried harder to negotiate a place where we both had good jobs. But, I was a people pleaser, afraid he would get mad,  and so, I moved with him and resented that ( and in addition, let him treat me poorly)

I could not make him change and I can't make him move, but I did go back to work, in a different job, and I am a lot happier about that now. He has made it difficult for me to work in the past but he doesn't now, because, I have a boundary about that and he is quite clear about it.

Sometimes what we see in another person is what is most upsetting about us.

All I want is for BPDh to have healthy boundaries, but I know that's HIS choice. I've decided I matter though, and actually, I always thought I did. I've made huge sacrifices(not living with MY son), to stay in this marriage, yet he's made NONE.

All I wanted was my H to respect my boundaries but how could he if I didn't respect my own. I was willing to give up my job for him. I expected him to treat me with respect.  I didn't even respect myself enough to take a stand for something I was passionate about. How was I to expect him to care about my wanting my job if I didn't?

CB, I'm a mom too, and I know this hurts. I also think it could possibly have been the best thing for your son not to live in this situation, with a step dad who didn't want him there. But did you put your relationship with your son second to your marriage in hope that your H would do the same with his daughter?

Because, CB, I know your son is precious to you, ( and your H's daughter is precious to him even if she isn't a nice person). One thought that comes to me is- is the resentment you feel about this situation telling you something?

Have you considered reclaiming the relationship with your son? This may not be by living with him ( he's almost grown) but by spending more time with him, just the two of you. It could be making this relationship more of a priority- not in the same way a marriage is- but enough so that you don't need to feel you made this sacrifice?

[fiveplus]

Ceruleanblue,

  I am so sorry you're going through this. Your story reminds me of mine ALOT.

All we want is a happy , respectful relationship that MAKES SENSE. Our husbands are not animals... .they should have some sense of how to treat their wives , with kindness and love. We treat THEM with love and try to have NORMAL conversations and interact in an adult way. So WHY don't they get it? Why are things SO HARD?

  It took me a while to truly understand that our BPDh's  are not just being mean, petty, childish, disrespectful because they WANT to (well, maybe some do... IDK). They are MENTALLY ILL.  They do not see the world the way we do, they CANNOT just STOP being the way they are.

Your husband looks at his relationship with his kids and he sees it ENTIRELY different from the way you do.

He looks at his relationship with you and ,whatever is in HIS head at the moment... .that IS HIS TRUTH. And when he's over it and "all's well"... .THAT IS HIS TRUTH TOO.

   I believed for SO long that, when my BPDh would act mean or even worse, that he might think about it later and feel remorse or feel bad about what he had done or said,  and that he would TRY to NOT hurt me again because I was someone special to him and you just don't do that to the person you love. Makes sense, right. Couples work things out and it gets better.  NOPE... .that was NOT the way his mind works.

   He WOULD act better, IF there was something in it for him. IF he wanted sex (rarely), or IF he wanted to impress someone with his "wonderful " family.

  I asked him once if he ever felt bad about the hurtful things he had done or said to me or the kids. And he replied that all he had ever done was try his hardest to be a good father and husband. 

  He was abusive, an addict and alcoholic (but only after work... .that was HIS time), he emotionally shredded me and our kids, he kicked my son out when he was 14, he had me so confused that I truly had a breakdown. For about a year I just shut down and turned into a little robot.

  And I STILL believed that he would see the damage he had caused and that it would cause him to WANT to do better. NOPE, NOPE, NOPE.

 

  To a BPD person, there IS NO  A+B= Oh, OK, it's C.

   

   The part of their brain that processes information is different from ours. Way different. When we see someone in distress,a certain part of our brain lights up, it triggers a response ... empathy, concern, etc. When a BPD person sees the same picture, that part of the brain does NOT engage. They usually wonder how this will effect THEM or they suspect the person is "acting distressed" to try to fool them or get something from them.

   BPD is not something that people just have sometimes, when things are bad. It is a serious illness that is ALWAYS inside, good times, bad times, when they're asleep, always.  I wish that we could separate the good from the bad and say ,"OK, HERE is when he was mean and irrational and he hated me, and THAT was when he was showing his BPD, but THESE times were good and he didn't really have it as bad then."   But that ain't the way it works. He sees the world through a different lens ALL the time.

  It is sad , but it has also made me stronger, more self confident, and I don't believe everything I hear anymore, I had to believe in MYSELF.  Good Luck to you.

   

[Ceruleanblue]

Yeah, I learned a long time ago not to believe most of what he says. I want to, but how could I? Sometimes I'm hopeful that he'll follow though, or that he's telling the truth, but as you stated, his world is seen through the filter of his mental illness. I do truly think he's very mentally disordered, as are his kids(even the one I get along with).

I too am glad that my son is NOT having to be around my husband all the time. I'm saddened that we are not living together, but it is the best for my son. He actually came and spent the evening with me, after school, and we had a nice time. I can actually say that my relationship with my son has greatly improved. He was hurt after I moved, even though he advised me to, and said I should make my marriage work(this sort of worries me, because he knew BPDh wasn't good to me, but he also knows my views of making marriage work). We both had adjusting to do, but we've really bounced back, and we so enjoy our time together.

I fully understand that BPDh loves his daughter, even though I think he's secretly ashamed of her actions. I expect him to love her, but what I don't expect is for him to take abuse, or have zero boundaries. I know that is his choice though, but I can't help lose some respect of him for that. He'll be hateful to me, but he'll take total crap off his kids, all because he fears losing them. Talk about a toxic relationship, there you go.

I do have resentment, not because I expected something for having made this "sacrifice", I think I resent that he put me in a position to choose. It's just so disgusting, and wrong that he did that. Plus, I did think he'd at least see that I was making our marriage a huge priority. Not really appreciation, but that he'd be happy that I chose our marriage, as HE was the one who made me "choose". What he really didn't see was that I also did it to protect my son. It took me over a month to decide, and I listened to my son's wishes too. I didn't expect gratitude, or appreciation per se, but I did expect him to be happy that he got what HE wanted, and that includes moving to where HE wanted to move.

It's like he gets his way, and he's still never happy. That to me is so incredibly sad. I'm feeling pretty good after such a good day with my son.

[Notwendy]

what I don't expect is for him to take abuse, or have zero boundaries. I know that is his choice though, but I can't help lose some respect of him for that.

Using the idea of our partners as mirrors- showing us traits we don't like in ourselves- one approach to consider is that this also could work for you. For instance, every time we "betray" our boundaries, our true self, or allow people to treat us in ways we don't want to be treated, we lose respect for ourselves. Looking at it this way-- could strengthening your boundaries, being clear about not being treated poorly - raise your self respect and self esteem?

Can we really expect our partners to be better at something than we are with ourselves?

There is theory on marriage that we "match" our partners in some ways emotionally, even if this shows itself in different ways. One way we match is on boundaries. Both partners have poor boundaries. So, when we see something in our partners that we are critical of, it is a possible clue to where we lack growth, even if our behavior in that area is different from theirs.

Although our situation isn't exactly the same as yours, my H and I have matching boundary issues. Keep in mind that two ends of the spectrum are two sides of the same dysfunction. Having super strong boundaries that let nobody in can be the other side of too weak boundaries. Healthy boundaries are somewhere in the middle. My H has super strong boundaries with me, because, with me, he is the most vulnerable. I struggled too with seeing him be accommodating to everyone else, but not with me. In some situations, I think he has let people walk all over him. He will jump through hoops for some of his family members, but pitch a fit if I asked him to wash a dish.

This is not my fault, and I don't believe his behavior is about you, but about him. However, I do believe that by noticing my H's boundaries, I can take a look at mine. I know that I have not stood up for myself, and have let people walk over my boundaries. This tells me that I need to work on this area. My H's boundaries are his job to deal with.


I too felt resentful that my H cornered me into giving up my job, at least that is one way to look at it. I can take this perspective: He did it passively- by being unavailable if I needed him to help with the kids, and being unreliable by agreeing to help and then backing out at the last minute. He was critical of me, our home life was chaotic, the kids were showing signs of stress.

I could list a number of ways he contributed to me giving up my job, but one thing he is not responsible for is me going along with that choice. By taking the perspective that he "did these things to me" I am assuming I didn't have a part in it, but I did. My poor boundaries contributed to my predicament, and by looking at all the things he did, I didn't take responsibility for my part.

If I bring it up, his reply is " I didn't make you do it" . But blaming him for this choice puts me in victim position, and that's a losing battle because if I make him responsible for my choice, then I look to him to change that choice.

When it came down to resentment, I had to also admit that I resented myself for not protecting my job, for giving up something important to me. It was up to me to face that, but facing that put the power in my hands to do something about it.

You have the power to reclaim your relationship with your son. Of course, this does not excuse your H's role in this, but getting him to own up to it and somehow reverse it is putting this in his hands. How effective do you think this is compared to you taking responsibility for that choice- because if you do, then you take back the power to change it.

It's great that you spent time with your son. I think you can take this choice back- not necessarily by changing his living arrangement, but as you said, you can spend time staying at your parents house. There is no rule that marriage means you cant do this ( both of us visit our parents, it isn't something married people can't do). Your son will likely be off to college soon. If so, you can take him to look at schools and visit him there. Grown kids leave home and don't live with us, but we can still maintain our relationship and visit.

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, I guess in this instance, I see this differently than you. I don't feel I struggle with self esteem issues, or self respect. If I were treated the way I think I deserve, I'd have the world's best husband! Seriously, I think I deserve that, because I'm a really good, kind person. I've struggled with codependency, but it's because I am a pleaser, and I am hugely empathetic.

Also, I didn't start out with low boundaries when I met BPDh, it was more a case of him slowly wearing me down over time. When all  his symptoms and anger, and him knocking me off the pedestal occurred, I was too busy trying to figure out what had happened to even think about my boundaries slowly being lowered.

I got in therapy, and ever since(this is almost two years ago now), have been working on not being codependent, and trying to reestablish those boundaries. I actually have really healthy boundaries in other areas of my life, like with friends, and with my kids, and family. My boundary issues just seem to have come into play with BPDh, and mostly to keep the peace, while I figures out what in the world had happened to make him change so much after we'd married.

I think in lots of marriages, maybe people do mirror each other, and my parents, married 60 plus years, definitely do, and in a good way. I don't feel BPDh and I do at all. Other than the year where I was trying to sort all this out, I've been very conscious of boundaries, and BPDh and I have had lots of talks about what boundaries are, because he says he doesn't understand what they are, and to him he views them as trying to punish someone. Even his son has explained to him that boundaries are about protecting the person setting the boundary, it isn't about trying to control another person.

And I definitely do not resent any decisions I've made, as I think I've made the best choices I could considering our situation. I do get where you are coming from with the job thing though, I just think I probably wouldn't have viewed it that way. I'd have likely viewed it as ultimately it was my(or in this case, your) choice. You could have said no, but for some reason, you did not. I don't like being put in bad situations, where either choice you have to make is going to be bad(welcome to the world of BPD), but that seems to be a lot of us on here.

I have fully reclaimed my relationship with my son, and things are great there, but I still feel I have to honor myself and my feelings, in regards to BPD putting me in a classic double bind. I ultimately did make a choice, but the truth is I should never have had to choose between them, and BPDh broke a prior deal he'd made with me about not moving until my kids were out of high school. This is just one more example of him not keeping his word, and him being very narcissistic. I'm missing out on my son's entire Junior and Senior year, of living with him. I waited to live with BPDh, even though we were married, for his son to graduate high school.

I just don't want to bury my feelings on this. If I do, I feel BPDh will continue to put me in these impossible situations, just to see how much I love him(or whatever sick reason is he does these things). I have a right to still feel a loss of respect, and a certain distrust of BPDh keeping his word, and to plan to have MUCH higher boundaries in future, so I don't end up feeling this way again.

Also, if BPDh and I mirrored each other, he'd now have a lot more boundaries, but as it is, he still basically has none, and he still doesn't have any core values that I know of either. I'm hoping that at some point, his DBT actually focus' in on boundaries, and knowing what core values are.