CPS allegations?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Two weeks ago,  dh had a bad reaction to an anti-anxiety medication and was acting impaired one night, and I took him to the hospital that evening.  BPD mom found out, and she took the kids (they are teens but still VERY controlled by her) when DH was in the hospital, claiming she would give them back when he was released.  He was released in a few days, but she still would not return them, and when DH would go to the school, she would convince them to skip school and go to her car instead of the office where DH was signing them out.  When we filed a motion to enforce the court order AND all the child support she owes, she filed an open investigation with CPS (with a grain of truth).

Here's the thing, the judge heard that BPD mom was probably exaggerating and has a history of alienating behaviors, but because her allegations were so intense, he ruled that we have a hearing on Monday to see if DH can get the kids back and let the kids stay with her (and they will not talk with their dad). 

So if the judge rules that the kids are safe to return, what does CPS do?

[sanemom]

Two weeks ago,  dh had a bad reaction to an anti-anxiety medication and was acting impaired one night, and I took him to the hospital that evening.  BPD mom found out, and she took the kids (they are teens but still VERY controlled by her) when DH was in the hospital, claiming she would give them back when he was released.  He was released in a few days, but she still would not return them, and when DH would go to the school, she would convince them to skip school and go to her car instead of the office where DH was signing them out.  When we filed a motion to enforce the court order AND all the child support she owes, she filed an open investigation with CPS (with a grain of truth).

Here's the thing, the judge heard that BPD mom was probably exaggerating and has a history of alienating behaviors, but because her allegations were so intense, he ruled that we have a hearing on Monday to see if DH can get the kids back and let the kids stay with her (and they will not talk with their dad). 

So if the judge rules that the kids are safe to return, what does CPS do?

[ForeverDad]

It's possible the court has asked CPS to attend and provide a (preliminary) report whether they have "no concerns".  That's what my court did when we first entered the court system.

Does he have the stamina/determination to ask for make-up time or some other consequences?  Especially if he already has a case pending in court.  Courts seldom adjust for the past (unless it is money).  They 'fix' things going forward but since it has been a long term pattern he needs to be sure the court is fully aware of her parenting obstruction masked as only Mother hyper-vigilance.

Yes, no matter how this turns out, be aware that she will attempt to use this in the future over and over.  (Even though she probably was the major factor upping his anxiety.)  However, once this has been judicially handled, it should be  medical/legally 'resolved' by the court and no longer be an issue.  Things happen.  Life happens.  The key point is that this was promptly handled by responsible professionals.  If she later brings it up in court then his lawyer ought to object that it is a resolved issue or whatever legalese is proper.

[sanemom]

The CPS visit did not go well... the supervisor didn't want to see any of our documentation.  It was like he had already decided we were guilty before he got there.  He didn't even want to see the doctor's note about the behaviors being a medical reaction and made it clear that he thought it was far-fetched (the other investigator in training wanted to see it though and said she wanted to research that reaction).  He is accusing me of not being protective of the kids.  When I asked what else was I supposed to do to protect the kids since I took DH to the hospital the day it was really bad, he had no answer except to tell DH to get help earlier.  HUH?  So now there is an investigation open on me, too, for not being a "protective parent."

This BPD woman is such a good liar that even a CPS supervisor has no desire to hear the other side.  It doesn't help that she has recruited her two boys to go against their dad to lie and distort things.  Our lawyer assured us that even though they had an open investigation, they do not have a legal case and are going on a witch hunt.  He wants to take over from here and wants all of their requests to go through him.

[Nope]

I agree with your L wanting everything to go through them since this has clearly turned into a witch hunt and is already so biased. Normally people investigating these situations want to evaluate all evidence. When they don't that is a red flag.

[bravhart1]

I thank god everyday that the CPS investigator in my case was not taken in by BPDm! I have heard so many horror stories like your own. When this first came up our attorney was very "on it" and ready to defend it all. Thank goodness it didn't turn out to be needed, but here is was I learned.

You can request a police investigation into this and have some better investigative technique on your side.

You can require CPS disclose the exact charges that have been lobbed at you. That way you can be sure they are focusing on the charges and don't get off track on a "witch hunt", which from my understanding is also quite common.

You have a right to your side of the story and if they won't hear it, or be open to understanding the nature of mom's illness ( which is relevant to these charges, let your attorney help you explain why) you can file for a "exception" ( I think that's the right term) which is like saying you don't agree with the tactics of CPS's investigation and you want those tactics investigated.

I hate to admit it but I was with my DH for over a year before I met BPDm ( who had not been diagnosed yet) and after all the crazy stuff I had read ( her emails and texts), heard ( her hateful voicemails) and witnessed (the changes in SD), when I first met her face to face, in a brief exchange with police present ( because she was causing drama again) the woman had me really questioning whether or not she really was a victim

[sanemom]

It didn't help our case that BPD mom got the teen boys to say all kinds of bad things against us, including that we were abusing drugs.  Of course when they heard from the other three children in the house, their stories did not go with the boys' stories, but I am sure CPS decided that the other three kids had been coached.

DH and I both took the 90 day hair follicle test and sent it to our lawyer, and it came out clean (CPS wanted us to take one last week, but we went privately and sent it to our lawyer instead of trusting them).  Our lawyer had an appointment to speak with the investigator yesterday but was put off due to the investigator's meetings so CPS has not been made aware that we have a clean drug test.  I hope that helps to discredit lots of things the boys said.

I know people who work for CPS and they have all said this case should have been administratively closed.  BPD mom filed a CPS case and a motion to modify the same week--RED FLAG.  

We are pretty clean cut, professional people--it is humiliating to be treated like criminals.  Our lawyer is mad at CPS for putting us on a safety plan without his permission and for not telling us what we are being charged with in the first place.  Hopefully the clean drug test will make them at least question their "they are guilty" mindset.  

Apparently, CPS did call one of our references the other day--a friend of DH's who has seen how BPD mom has worked the kids for years.  CPS went on and on with questions about our alleged drug and alcohol use and DH's use of discipline, and when the investigator got to the end, she asked him if he had any concerns.  The friend (in his Boston accent) said something like, "Yes, I have a concern. Let me be candid with you-- I know DH has had some issues since his medication, but he wouldn't even be on that medication in the first place if his ex wasn't constantly manipulating their kids to be against him to hurt him."  I wanted to kiss him after I heard he said that... ..

I am sure BPD mom has the boys convinced that we ARE abusing drugs; their counselor may consider showing the boys the drug test results tomorrow--the counselor has said that the court ordered counseling has been tricky because BPD mom keeps pushing herself into the sessions (the boys are refusing to come in without her--they came in just fine alone for years).

We have a court hearing next week (the judge didn't hear the case before--he just punted it to the CPS investigators)... .and I have no idea what will happen.  This judge doesn't like telling teens where to live; I hope hearing the extinuating circumstances of how much control this woman has over these kids, he will rethink that typical stance of his.

But there's a part of me that just thinks she will get the boys to try to frame us again for CPS so let them stay with her.

[ForeverDad]

CPS is usually a black box and generally focused on the immediate incident, prior allegations are largely ignored or at least seem to carry little weight.  I recall the one time I got called into CPS for an interview — not the first allegation and not the last either.  Son was 5 and had recently started kindergarten.  The custody evaluator had submitted a good report.  Then the school called, I guess they called me because mother who still had temp custody wasn't responding, said son needed vaccinations and so I call the pediatrician's office to schedule a visit.  Then... .I called then-stbEx to inform her of the appointment I made.  Oh my.  She raged at me.  Then she called the staff and raged at the staff.  Doctor immediately, according to their records, said to 'fire' her and she was sent a letter "withdrawing our services".  I didn't get one because she had temp custody.

So she looked very bad.  She had to make me look worse.  Here what I wrote about those weeks.

That is what happened with my son.  After more than a year and a half of multiple child abuse complaints that I was harming him during our separation/divorce, each one a little different than the ones before, and each time he denied it, didn't "indicate" abuse, she finally managed to get him to parrot her.  She must have been exceedingly determined, as she had just raged at the pediatrician's staff for me making an appointment and they had immediately fired her by certified mail "withdrawing services".  The only thing she hadn't tried before was alleging outright physical abuse.  He often has bruises, had some bruises on his shins that he later told me must have happened when he was in a playground with his mother.  She trooped him down to the hospital and he had yet another exam.  This time he parroted her saying dad got mad and "punched him with his fists in the shins".  I can just imagine the glee and spite in her eyes when she thought she finally had blocked my parenting.

Well, a few days later CPS called me and asked me to come in.  By then he had been back with me, asked me to look at a deep bruise on his shin (if I had done it then why would he be trying to show it to me?), told me it was probably hurt on the monkey bars when with his mother, I had thought it serious enough to take pictures of it and (unseen to him) record him telling me about it.  So after the CPS contact, I went and got a copy of the hospital report.  Right there is said his bruises were age appropriate for an active boy and the only concern was with what he said.

When I went in I told the two investigators this was a relatively mild allegation compared to her earlier attempts.  They told me that they had already spoken to him in school, they considered it the most neutral place to meet children.  I can't remember if I reminded them that she brought him to school and picked him up from school, not quite as neutral a place as they claimed.  Anyway, they said he didn't mention me when they talked to him, so they were considering closing the case and wanted my side.

Naturally I told them this was just the latest of many false allegations, she had just the week before had a run in with the pediatricians, was extremely angry with me when I told her I had made an appointment and this was surely retaliation.  (I didn't know she got fired by the pediatrician's practice until the next month, since "I was not on the PHI" and she had been waving HIPAA privacy rights around at them.  Though they refused to talk to me due to the her HIPAA claims, they were very happy to make copies of his records (with all their notes about their interactions with her since my temp orders did give me rights to his records. To this day she has never told me why son was booted and she didn't get another pediatrician until a couple months later, the next year.)

Anyway, back to the CPS interview, I told them my son had told me about his bruises, played the recordings, also I noted inconsistencies in the hospital report.  Besides that I'd never heard him use the word "punched" before, I believed it was her phrasing, I asked why in the world if I was that angry I would crouch down or get on my knees to hit his shins of all places!  The case was closed as unfounded.

That scared me.  It was the last complaint of that sort I am aware of, but somehow she got him to cave in and tell a fabricated story.  That's when we read the Clifford the Big Red Dog book "T-Bone Tells the Truth".  He was only five, he didn't realize the consequences of what he repeated until then.  Later, he said, "Mommy lied!"

Probably I'll have to review that point periodically.  Kids tend to forget things after a while... .

The crazy part?  I wasn't so worried when I went in to speak with CPS.  After prior repeated horrendous sexual allegations that went nowhere, the it's-only-physical complaint seemed so ridiculously anticlimactic.   Fortunately, the idea of me stooping or kneeling to punch him on the shins never went any farther and was determined to be unsubstantiated.

Oh, while I was there I asked them about his holding her breasts, which she did with him before our separation and he said he has done since our separation.  They replied I could talk to a supervisor if I wished and it was over.

Strain out the gnat and swallow the camel... .

I'm not the only one who has "been there, done that", too many of us have faced false allegations there.  However, they won't call them false, they tiptoe around them calling them "unsubstantiated" allegations.  By the time of the incident described above, I was so frustrated with how they were handling things that I asked for a written resolution rather than some phone call.  After a month or so I get a letter in the mail, a one page form letter.  Sure enough, it concluded "unsubstantiated" but surprised me by saying son was 'at risk'.  Huh?  From whom?  Father?  Mother?  It didn't say.

While CPS — and to a lesser extent the courts — look at each allegation separately, the History of the years of parental conflict and parental alienation attempts ought to at least carry some weight.  I believe it did in my case, eventually she lost credibility.

Can your DH be prepared to bring in any reports or testimonies in prior cases with SD who has since aged out of the system?  It ought to make sense to the court that once SD reached adulthood and aged out of the scope of domestic court and the custody struggle became moot, that mother could be expected to redouble her efforts to snag the younger children too.  There ought to be a lot of prior reports of (1) mother's actions to demonstrate a pattern of alienation attempts and (2) until recently, after SD aged out of custody issues, the boys were fine living with father.

I understand the feeling to just make it all go away or to walk away.  But if he does that then mother will be sure to claim he didn't care about them, didn't love them, abandoned them and just walked away when he was actually driven away.

Perspective:  Largely the outcome is up to the agencies and court now.  The excellent legal advice and strategies from your lawyer is priceless.  What you and DH can do is continue to do your best for the long term sake of the boys but also be open to accepting the court's decision now that the boys are older.  By that I mean that DH will still be able, years from now when his children ask, ":)ad, did you fight for us?" then he can reply, "Yes, I did fight for you, I did my reasonable best."

Be prepared that if the court rules for middle ground 'equal time' then DH can warn/predict to the court, just a little like Arnold Schwarzenegger, "We'll be back... .Getting equal time won't be enough for my ex.  Even to the very last day the youngest of my children is still a minor, for her it's All or Nothing... .All for her or Nothing for me.  I wish the court would see how wrong her choices, perspectives and manipulations are."

Another edit:  Likely she will seek child support if she can.  If so, then be sure to ask that any CS be first used to reduce the accumulated unpaid CS she has owed in past years to DH.

[bravhart1]

Can you do that with support?

I thought CS had to be the amount and the arrears were to be paid separate. Our BPDm owes a hefty sum of pesos, and is looking to cash in on a big CS swing coming her way as she is trying to take a leave of absence right before our CS hearing in January.

One thought I had with your CPS case sanemom is that if the court gives mom more time with boys, don't they have to cite some change in circumstances? If she's saying that you and DH being discovered as drug addicts is the change, and those charges are unfounded, then where's the reason for the change?

She would have to "find" something else, which then highlights her witch hunt, for CHILD SUPPORT, which is her motivation. 

I try to stay out of the pit of dispare, but it's hard, and reading that there are so many others out there like you who are being drug through the mud and pain because of these misguided attempts to "win" and be controlled,  really make me feel like this is hopeless. Sorry, not much of a cheerleader, but jeez... .:'(

[ForeverDad]

I'm not a lawyer so I don't know what's possible and what isn't.  Perhaps an entire CS amount can't be applied to prior unpaid CS from the other parent.  I just don't know.  Shouldn't be any harm in trying if that is part of the outcome.  This is such a convoluted, unusually complicated case that who knows what will stick?

I think think both CPS and court needs to see the proof of the nefarious frame up the boys did, tampering with the meds, whether or not mother's involvement can be definitively connected.

I needed the Change of Circumstances process when I was seeking to change from Shared Parenting to Legal Guardian.  Took about 1.5 years.

Later, because GAL hadn't wanted to change from equal time but it predictably wasn't enough of a change to halt the problems, I had to return to court with a Motion for Modification of Parenting Time, seeking majority time.  I did get it but only during the school year.  It is so very hard to change an order.  Courts generally prefer minimal changes.  It also took about 1.5 years.

So I'm thinking that once the CPS case is determined to be unsubstantiated or even maliciously framed, that could leave it up to the judge to defer making any changes to the order (as mine always did) until the end of the case.  I guess the judge could modify his current emergency order but it would be best for the judge to just Terminate it and then let the regular case she filed proceed on its year+ course.  I don't know if the judge would deny her sooner.

Frankly, once the immediate emergency order is over and if the boys are returned to the prior schedule, then time is on your side and you can run out the clock on at least the older boy.

[sanemom]

I have no idea what we will do.  Where I am and where DH is are two different places... .at this point, BPD mom can take the kids to Siberia, and I couldn't be happier.  I am exaggerating; just tired of her intent on hurting my DH and all of her drama and how the kids are all about plotting against DH with her.

My 12 year old told her counselor today that she "just knows" that BPD mom called CPS, and BPD mom is trying to hurt her stepdad, but what BPD mom "needs to understand is that she is not just hurting stepdad, she is hurting ALL of us."  I never talk about this stuff with her so I was surprised she had come up with all of that on her own.  She also told the counselor that she lied to CPS--she doesn't feel safe... .because of BPD mom "always trying to hurt our family."    :'(

In terms of CPS, they are still going after us so our attorney told us to go ahead and go higher up.  I have contacts with the governor who advised us to talk with our state senator about how CPS is not following standard procedure.  So I guess I will be doing that... .just wish people did their job.

[Panda39]

I have no idea what we will do.  Where I am and where DH is are two different places... .at this point, BPD mom can take the kids to Siberia, and I couldn't be happier.  I am exaggerating; just tired of her intent on hurting my DH and all of her drama and how the kids are all about plotting against DH with her.

LOL... .I have so been there sister!

Panda39

[bravhart1]

Thank you for being brave enough to say what we (step parents ) are all thinking at certain times. I know that it's not politically correct to say " take your kid, like I care" when it gets rough. But most of us are too condemned to say it out loud, which makes us feel guilty inside with no release.

Most of the time I am just wishing that BPDm were healthy enough mentally to raise and take care of her OWN child, instead of leaving all the heavy lifting up to me and then turning the tables on me and accusing me of trying to "steal" her child.

[GaGrl]

I wish I could say it goes away when the children reach 18 or 21 or 30... .but the jealousy of the PD still rears up at the strangest times.

[bravhart1]

^^^but you stop caring, stop getting rattled by it, or it gets funny at some point right?

Seriously, LIE to me!

[GaGrl]

Well, the fact that she's 1500 miles away now sure helps a lot!

Sometimes her behavior, statements/pronouncements or demands (of the children and granddaughter) are so over the top that I can laugh. I do have much more compassion for her than I did 10 years ago when DH and I married... .I had to get past the anger over how shabbily she had treated such a wonderful man, and how much his health had been affected by years of stress, and how emotionally damaged the adult children were, and how she was actively alienating the grandchild from GD's own mother.

I've realized that, after all the years of her infidelities and manipulations, she has pretty much reached her limit. And it is a limited limit. One daughter is NC with her. The other has strong boundaries but must defend them constantly. The Golden Son is enmeshed. Her SO's first wife was so bad that he thinks this one is an improvement. She has little formal education (she is from an Asian, rural village.

It's just sad more than anything else.

Still, I have no contact with her at all. She's dangerous.

[Panda39]

^^^but you stop caring, stop getting rattled by it, or it gets funny at some point right?

Seriously, LIE to me!

WOW bravehart1 this had me laughing. 

Okay so here was my SO's and my moment when we realized we could handle mom and her nutty stuff.

Mom took both girls out east to see D18 off to school.  She made lots of promises to D14 about all the things they would do there.  But the reality was mom had no money so they stayed at the hotel for a few days. 

Dad and I were having lunch at home on the day D14 was arrive back home mom called and advised him that they missed their plane due to traffic.  Mind you this was a small New England city on a Sunday…I’m sure it was absolute gridlock!  Dad just told her to send him her updated itinerary.

In that moment I knew that we had finally arrived at a place where we could take her antics in stride.

In the old days we would have been freaking out... .Was she kidnapping D14? This was cutting into dads time!  She was going to miss a day of school! Gawd, here we go again with Ms. screw up! We would have been really PO'd. 

But we had finally gotten to a place were we just realized there was nothing we could do about it, D14 was fine, and this was mom's issue.  (BPD Family tools... .radical acceptance of uBPDxw's behaviors... .you can only control yourself you can't control someone else... .mindfulness (use that logical mind to control those emotional knee jerk reactions)... .used BIFF during the conversation... .let it go)

Sometimes things do get funny and often ironic but I always find there is a tinge of sadness.  Below is one of my favorite funny stories.  The kids were spying on their dad at the time and passed some sensitive information on their mom.  Sad that the kids needed to see the text and sad for uBPDxw because her husband is now seeing someone else.

... .as an aside... .My SO left his undies at my house after a visit  cool and I texted him to let him know and that information was passed on to uBPDxw by one of my SO's daughters... .Lol  grin sometimes they should be careful for what they ask for!... .

And Gagrl I wish we were 1500 miles away from our uBPDex/mom too 

Panda39

[GaGrl]

When The Dark Princess moved away, I told DH that I swore I felt Georgia heave a sigh of relief when she crossed the state line into Alabama! We have to keep quite sense of humor about most of it.

[ForeverDad]

I wish I could say it goes away when the children reach 18 or 21 or 30... .but the jealousy of the PD still rears up at the strangest times.

So true, there will be weddings, grandchildren, holidays, etc that all hold the potential to trigger again and again.

Good:  Domestic or family court can no longer be used to as a weapon to control, punish or obstruct us.  About all that might be left for a few more years are health insurance or required contributions toward college expenses.

Not so good:  Domestic or family court can no longer enforce a parenting schedule and there is a risk the influenced children or the children with weak boundaries could still struggle or even fade away.

[sanemom]

I think our children may very well fade away--none of them have good boundaries.  I know DSD has faded away.

But at least she will no longer be able to use family court to her advantage.

I actually got to speak with the state senator today about the obvious CPS bias against us.  He listened intently to my brief overview, but when he found out that BPD mom worked for CPS, he was obviously rattled and said he would get his team right on it.  I will let you know what happens.

It is ridiculous--they have nothing except the testimonies of two boys who were proven to lie yet they won't drop the case yet. 

[Panda39]

I think our children may very well fade away--none of them have good boundaries.  I know DSD has faded away.

This could happen, it could happen for a while, or the kids could wake up and smell the coffee. That is up to them and their choice.  I say it over and over again  but we can only change ourselves we can't force someone else to change.  Just keep being that alternate choice, keep communication open and show the kids you care about them.  Keep that door open for them.

I actually got to speak with the state senator today about the obvious CPS bias against us.  He listened intently to my brief overview, but when he found out that BPD mom worked for CPS, he was obviously rattled and said he would get his team right on it.  I will let you know what happens.

It is ridiculous--they have nothing except the testimonies of two boys who were proven to lie yet they won't drop the case yet. 

Hopefully pressure from the senator will get this looked at objectively.  I'll be interested to hear how it all plays out.

Panda39

[sanemom]

We probably contacted the senator too late--CPS contacted our attorney and have ruled out all charges EXCEPT saying that my DH was neglectful in his supervision.  He was home and acting weird (impaired) due to an adverse reaction to medication, we have a doctor's note stating that he had an adverse reaction to medication, and was home only 30 minutes with the kids (ages 17, 17, 15, 12, and 5) for 30 minutes before I got home.  Then I took him to the hospital.

The issue I have is that the CPS worker, after talking with the alienated boys, is prepared to testify to the judge that they should move in with their BPD mom.  This overturns the strong opinion of the two therapists who have been on this case for years, but the judge may just listen and do what CPS says.

[ForeverDad]

DH will have to be sure to get all the pertinent information presented to the judge (and placed on the record) since any appeal, objection or request for reconsideration of a poor decision will hinge on evidence, testimony and documents in the court's records.  If documents are not presented in court while "on the record" and copies handed out for both sides and the court, then it can be ignored.

Frankly, a 30 minute incident of being "neglectful" to teenagers is not a pattern nor endangering.  It should be called what it is, a manipulated foot in the door excuse to sabotage his parenting.

Then again, my son is a teen and he claims not to know how to cook a frozen pizza, pull it out of the oven and slice it.

[Boss302]

We probably contacted the senator too late--CPS contacted our attorney and have ruled out all charges EXCEPT saying that my DH was neglectful in his supervision.  He was home and acting weird (impaired) due to an adverse reaction to medication, we have a doctor's note stating that he had an adverse reaction to medication, and was home only 30 minutes with the kids (ages 17, 17, 15, 12, and 5) for 30 minutes before I got home.  Then I took him to the hospital.

The issue I have is that the CPS worker, after talking with the alienated boys, is prepared to testify to the judge that they should move in with their BPD mom.  This overturns the strong opinion of the two therapists who have been on this case for years, but the judge may just listen and do what CPS says.

I know how easy it is to get stressed out with stuff like this - BELIEVE ME, I know... . - but consider this.

You've done everything you can and far as I can tell, you've done the right thing. If this judge wants to buy into Mom's baloney... .well, then, you tell yourself you fought the best fight you could, and wait for things to blow up at mom's house, and for the kids to come back when she's done using them as pawns in her sick game.

But, honestly... .I'm with Forever Dad. I can't imagine a judge finding your husband neglectful for having a bad reaction to medication and getting sick. Not with 17 year olds in the houses. A kid that old is perfectly capable of holding down the fort for a half hour. Come on... .

And you also have the evidence of mom failing to get the kids the therapy they need. That's neglect, pure and simple.

You might also be very surprised about what the kids tell the court they really want. My BPDx told me for months that the kids wanted to live with her exclusively, but the CFI on the case found out they actually wanted to spend at least half their time with me. So mom was lying? Nawwwww... .no way... .not her... .

Remember, you're dealing with an extremely unstable and manipulative person here. Judges see that. The judge will also see that you are not giving up on your kids. In the end they keep their own counsel. You may not get everything you want, but you may get more than you're expecting, too. You and your husband did your best, and all mom has done is her worst, and if I were a judge, not getting these kids to therapy would be a critical failure on her part.  This may turn out far better than you are fearing it will.

Take a deep breath. It's going to be OK.  

[Boss302]

Frankly, a 30 minute incident of being "neglectful" to teenagers is not a pattern nor endangering.  It should be called what it is, a manipulated foot in the door excuse to sabotage his parenting.

Or an instance of "life happens." I guess if poor old Dad was having a heart attack, God forbid, then he'd be neglecting those kids while he's laid out on the floor waiting for the paramedics?

Spare me... .I don't think any judge is going to hold this against this man.

[sanemom]

well, she seems to think she will prevail.  She today let DH know that she has moved (effective today) to a different school district (may even be a different county). 

She is certain she will get custody of the boys.  We will see... .she may, but not without a fight.

[Boss302]

I think our children may very well fade away--none of them have good boundaries.  I know DSD has faded away. 

Well, then, if they do, then they've made their choice.

I know how hard it is to let go, but I've had to do it any number of times. You remember the stories Panda posted about D14 going off to camp, and D19 going off to college based on mom's lies? They didn't go because mom forced them to go, or because a court ordered them to go - I LET them go, and let them expose themselves to all the horrifying consequences they got in return. And I'm far from being a non-protective or ineffective father, I can assure you.

I let them go, and when things went wrong, I was there to pick up the pieces with them. If things go against you in court and they end up with their mom, when things go wrong with her - and you can bet your a** that's exactly what will happen - you'll do the same. If nothing else, they'll learn the value of having boundaries with their mother fairly early in life. My kids certainly learned that their mom is a thief and crook early on... .far as I'm concerned, better they learn that now, when the actual consequences are not horrific, versus when they're 40 and end up getting jobbed out of their retirement, or having their bank accounts drained, or stuck with some horrifying debt they took on with mom. BPDs are perfectly capable of all that... .and worse.

None of that is easy... .but it's the truth.

But I don't think you'll lose, so hopefully this is academic... .

[sanemom]

I feel like the facts are on our side, but they have been for over five years, and we have lost in court. 

HOWEVER, the judge has NEVER heard our case... .he just kept giving it to the GAL (who is no longer on the case) and forced us to settle rather than have a hearing.  The judge promised to hear it this time, but he also listens to teens.

[Boss302]

I feel like the facts are on our side, but they have been for over five years, and we have lost in court.  

HOWEVER, the judge has NEVER heard our case... .he just kept giving it to the GAL (who is no longer on the case) and forced us to settle rather than have a hearing.  The judge promised to hear it this time, but he also listens to teens.

Then you've done what you can, and God bless you for trying. It'd have been easier to just give up.

[bravhart1]

Wait just a minute

CPS is going to recommend the boys go live with mom? Based on what? They aren't mediators or therapists, they haven't spent time investigation your case. WTH? Where did this info come from?

Didn't you say mom works at CPS? This has to be the most agregious thing I've heard yet.

And mom changed their school? Without waiting for this to be settled? Without giving dad a chance to have input? Does she have full legal custody?

I think just the school thing is enough to show her true nature. I mean jeez, did she really think these boys needed a change in school on top of everything else they are going through? Is that better for her or them? Holy Toledo

When are you going to court again?

[sanemom]

Wait just a minute

CPS is going to recommend the boys go live with mom? Based on what? They aren't mediators or therapists, they haven't spent time investigation your case. WTH? Where did this info come from?

Didn't you say mom works at CPS? This has to be the most agregious thing I've heard yet.

And mom changed their school? Without waiting for this to be settled? Without giving dad a chance to have input? Does she have full legal custody?

I think just the school thing is enough to show her true nature. I mean jeez, did she really think these boys needed a change in school on top of everything else they are going through? Is that better for her or them? Holy Toledo

When are you going to court again?

Court date is on Friday re: the TRO she filed against DH; problem is she filed a motion to modify as well, and judge wants to talk with the boys.

She didn't change schools yet--just moved so if she DOES get custody on Friday, they will be changing schools.  Yes, what CPS is saying is absolutely egregious.  I don't know how they get away with it--will know more on Friday.  Right now we have primary custody of the boys, and she only gets them two weekends a month... .until she called CPS and sequestered them for a month.

Friday will be a crapshoot in my mind--she has CPS and the boys on her side; we have two therapists and a long history of alienation on our side.