Need your thoughts

[Eyeamme]

My 34 year old BPD daughter and I have not spoken for 3 weeks. Last time I visited I was treated horribly. When I came home I decided to go to therapy to help ME. I discovered that my daughter has all the characteristics of BPD. I have also been cut off from my grandchildren. I wrote this letter and need opinions if this will provoke a bad response. I am ready to throw in the towel and walk away from this relationship. I have taken 25 years of venom and hatred. Can't do it any longer. Here is the letter. Send?

Dear xxxx,

I want you to know that I have been thinking of you and the kids nonstop. I know it is G's birthday today and there is nothing more that I want then to kiss and hug him. My love for all of you is beyond words.

I realize that you think that I barged out of your house last time we were there. I am not defending my actions because I did this because I could not hear your anger anymore. It was going beyond my limits and hurt too much. I tried to let things go but you seemed to need to say more to me. I am open to talking but not being called names.

I know you think I act like nothing happened. This is my way of coping. I don't want to get defensive (which is a natural response) and I don't want to be attacked verbally. It hurts my feelings very badly and I think it is unfair to be treated like that.

I think that maybe you need to figure out where so much anger is coming from and how to deal with it. I think you need to talk to someone. I have started to talk to someone because I feel I have let myself down by losing who I know I am.

I love you. I love you to my core. I am emailing and not calling because I can not handle the anger.

Mom

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Hi Eyeamme,

We are here to bounce ideas off of and give you the feedback that you want, I'm so glad that you are asking about the letter.  The pain and fear of losing a relationship with your grandchild is so awful and real, mending the relationship with your daughter may be the only way to have continued contact.  I'm afraid that your letter will not be well received.  When we tell people "I know you think... ." and "... .you need to... ." or ... "you seem to need... ." it doesn't go well.

Focusing on validating her feelings that were expressed during the poor interaction you last engaged in may allow her to hear your care, concern, and the boundary you want to set regarding verbal abuse.

When we tell someone something they don't want to hear it may be better received when done in SET format.  Supportive statement, empathy statement, and then the truth statement.

It will also help your relationship to admit when the absence of skills and understanding have had a negative impact on interactions/ the relationship. Most of us have not validated our kids at the level that they needed it, no shame here.  It is simply not something we understood how or how much to do.  This takes a lot of work and practice to implement and we are all here to learn how to do it together.



lbj

[Eyeamme]

Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it. I am not sure I can do anymore validating of her feelings. I have done that for years. I am too tired and really think I just need to give up on this relationship.

Thanks again!

J

[lbjnltx]

Sometimes it helps to take a break and give thought to what is most important to us.  If putting up with stuff from your daughter is worth it to have a relationship with your grandchild then use the down time to learn to better ensure you will have continued access to that child.

It is a lot of work... .no doubt.  Learning the coping skills vs the communication skills may be where you want to focus your energy first... .coping skills like not personalizing, setting boundaries, and developing empathy can help create the space for learning improved communication skills.

Whatever your choice we are here to help.



lbj

[Eyeamme]

I sent the email before I got your answer. Here is the reply and I am over my head. I am not going to answer.


"I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish here. On the surface, it would appear it's an apology - but it's clearly not.  It's another backhanded attempt to coin yourself the victim.

I don't think you barged out. You did barge out.  You being unable to take any criticism and never admit you're wrong isn't an excuse and I didn't call you any names. You have always painted yourself as a victim in every circumstance - it's how you operate.  I don't have any respect for it and I won't be pulled into it. I'm sorry that the only ways you can cope are being nasty and defensive or barge out - but quite frankly thats not my problem or an excuse in my opinion.  And, I'm and adult who doesn't have to accept it from you or the people who learned it from you. It's not "the best you can do". 

While I appreciate your advice, I can't say I give it much merit.  I love you, but I have never wanted to be like you.  Also, you really only have a surface relationship with me.  I don't need to talk to someone about where my anger for you comes from.  I'm pretty self aware, particularly when it comes to that. It's no mystery and pretty valid.

I never told you not to call, and reiterated you were welcome to call the kids in particular. You didn't.  Not even on his birthday.  You not being able to handle it isn't an excuse as far as I'm concerned.  At least not in my mind.  You can disagree and that's fine but there are consequences.  I firmly will not have people in their life who will disappoint them or not be there for them, while I can help it, no matter who they are.  For me, this is a deal breaker."

[mimi99]

I know how painful it can be to have a child with BPD. I'm so sorry you are being kept from your grandchildren as a result. My experience with my BPD daughter24 is that the more I try to explain things, the more she pushes back. I think BPD's are incapable of seeing their own and others behavior through the eyes of an average, healthy person. Their perception of reality is the only possibility they will consider, at least for my daughter. She sees any attempt to explain as an invalidating attack. Only in letting go of my need for her to understand have I gained some freedom. It is not necessary for her to understand, only for me to stop making things worse by making her feel invalidated. I am relieved of the burden of "setting her straight" and have a new perspective on what our relationship will be like. I wish you peace and pray that you will be able to see your grandchildren more.

[Eyeamme]

Thanks Mimi. I am learning. This is all so new and I am trying to adjust to it.

J

[thefixermom]

You've gotten some excellent input and I have nothing to add to it other than my empathy. I can see your daughter, like many of our BPD kids, is brilliant, and has all the answers and no need to reflect or be objective. Small wonder that when they are calm and cool, they can easily convince others to share their viewpoint against us.  I wish you well in your understanding and operating with loving detachment and not taking things personal.  It's heartbreaking to not have the closeness we dream of having with our beloved children, but there comes a time when we accept what is, and learn to enjoy and work with what IS available to us... .and stop all efforts to get them to see our point of view.  In time, it doesn't hurt so much. Because we stop believing what they say and start seeing them as the fragile pained lost and unwell children they still are. You have the power to change this relationship and keep your grandson in your life. Stand tall inside yourself and become purposed, but stay soft and keep reading and you will be amazed at the peace you will eventually have as things get better. 

[Eyeamme]

Thank you so much. You are all so kind and helpful.

J.

[Rapt Reader]

Eyeamme,  And, you are really right; it is hard to learn how to adjust our thinking, feelings, attitudes, and ways of communication with our BPD loved ones once we know what the troubles are... .If you haven't had a chance yet to check out all of the links to the right-hand side of this page, I would like to encourage you to do so. The TOOLS and THE LESSONS will give you a wonderful overview of just why your relationship with your daughter is so difficult, and will also give you tips to make things better.

Please make yourself a cup of coffee, tea or hot chocolate (or a glass of wine?   ), and snuggle in and check out everything that has been listed there, and know that things will get easier and less confusing once you get a handle on how things got to where they are today... .mimi99 is so very right; the more you try to explain your viewpoint to your daughter, the worse things will seem to get between the two of you.

She is also right about letting go of trying to "set things straight" or trying to defend yourself--trading those stresses for Radically Accepting that this is how your daughter just "is", and then learning how to approach her differently, will make your life so much easier. And the relationship so much better. I have to say that learning what I've learned on this site, and then putting the communication tools and techniques (at the links I've mentioned) into practice once I learned how to do them, has really improved the quality of my life with all of my loved ones, not just my adult (38) son who was diagnosed with BPD in April of 2013.

thefixermom is also right: keep reading and you will be amazed at the peace you will eventually find. You will be able to figure this all out, JanisT, and we will be here to help you all along the way  

[jellibeans]

I am sorry for your struggles with your dd and for the loss of your grand kids. I am sure this is all pretty painful for you. What is your plan going forward? Are you going to remove her from your life? Along with the grand kids?  I ask this because I feel you might have sent your letter to her still feeling very emotional and I know when I do that I usually regret it. I will tell you if you are waiting for your dd to change that just might be a long wait. Accepting that I only have control over me and making changes to the way I interact with my dd is the first step to improving your relationship. I know this is a hard concept but when you accept thing then you can start to make them better. I found for myself that I did tend to want to control things and that I often felt there was a right way and a wrong way. Ask yourself that question next time there is conflict. I am sure you are exhausted and I do think we all need some space to heal and rest. Take some time for yourself ... , then start again

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Eyeamme]

Thank you. I am beginning to see this. It has only been three weeks since I have realized that she has BPD. I am trying hard to accept it and to regroup. 30 years of just thinking it was me is going to take time to undo. All of your words mean so much to me.

J

[AVR1962]

Eyeamme, my suggestion on this is that you rephrase the letter if you would like to say something to her. I think by pointing out hr actions that hurt you, she will only hear you placing blame. I think you can only focus on your part, for example: "I am sorry I hurt you by walking out. I was dealing with my own issues which I did not want to share. I love you all. please give G a big hug and kiss from me. Love you! Mom"

You acknowledge your part... .don't expect her to acknowledge her part, that keeps her running. Only she can face her own acts. Do not take on anything that belongs to her. She too is reaction to her own hurts and pain, understand that and realize only she can work thru that. Be understanding and supportive but do not tell her what her hurts are. You see what I am saying? Own only your part.

[Eyeamme]

Thank you. I am beginning to understand. She has come at me again because I didn't call my 2yo grandson for his birthday yesterday. I did send a gift.  I told her I was sorry that I couldn't do that (I am just learning how to deal with this and can not handle talking to HER right now). She told me that I wasn't allowed in the kids life anymore and good luck.

[AVR1962]

Thank you. I am beginning to understand. She has come at me again because I didn't call my 2yo grandson for his birthday yesterday. I did send a gift.  I told her I was sorry that I couldn't do that (I am just learning how to deal with this and can not handle talking to HER right now). She told me that I wasn't allowed in the kids life anymore and good luck.

This is a type of control issue, she is trying to control you. She sees you in the wrong and she feels she is protection her child but who she is trying to protect is herself from her own thoughts about you. It is sad and hard to work with and I can tell you that there are no absolute answers so don't feel bad if you feel you mis-stepped in the process.

The BPD has to be #1, they are attention seekers and they are always looking for slights from others... .they are the perfect victim. They also see people and situations in black and white with no gray areas which means that they have "their" right and wrong and nothing can be seen in between so in your daughter's code book (her head) she sees that you were in the wrong by not calling her daughter to wish her a happy birthday and because you missed that one step your efforts are no good so you are discarded. She can't see that maybe you were busy, maybe you have your reasons that she doesn't understand and she isn't going to ask either, she has made her conclusion based on her own thoughts and she placed you in the wrong. Again, there is no absolute right here as you could have mis-stepped something else in the process and you could have had the very same reaction even if you had made the call. You see?

What is the solution? Do not buy into the game. Learn to make our choices for yourself without her negative influence that cuts you into pieces. You sent a gift, and you let her know, leave it at that. You do not owe her an explanation or an apology. Let her work out her issues and if she feels she has to protect her child(ren) from you there is nothing you can do about it but accept it.

I have 3 grand children from my BPD daughter and she has treated me much the same as what you have indicated here. As a younger person she would tell me how awful I was like your daughter is doing now. We had long talks, I tried to hear her out and undertand her, acknowledge what she said, told her I never meant to hurt her, etc. I even offered more than once for us to go to counseling together. Nothing was ever good enough for her. My grand children have been her pawns for years and it is a way for her to control me. I have cherished the bits of time where there has been peace and I have actually been able to see my grand children but I can tell by the things they have said and their reactions towards me that my daughter has filled their heads with negative thoughts towards me. Anymore, she just stops speaking and tells everyone else what a terrible person I am. the only time she comes around if if she wants something for me. My oldest grand daughter is 15. Just a few months ago daughter took me off FB, her children and husband did as well and then I have heard thru family why. I tried to contact her but she will not reply. All I can do is accept this. The reasoning she gave family was not even the truth, fully typical of my daughter. after years of the never ending story you get tired and start drawing your boundary lines and you do so to protect yourself and at least for me realize that I have to protect myself and let go as there is nothing more I can do. I hope you have more success.

[Eyeamme]

I have had the exact same situation. Thanks for your thoughts. It feels so difficult to talk about how I feel because all I have heard for years and years if I dared say something about what I was feeling that "It is always about YOU' or "Poor little victim, you are always the victim". I need to not feel guilty talking.

J.

[Rapt Reader]

We do have a very good Article about boundaries: BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence if you are interested in learning more about how to make them work, JanisT. Here's an excerpt:

Honoring and Defending

Even when we model our values and communicate responsibly, we can still encounter boundary busters. Boundary busters are people who are caught up in their own lives and are oblivious to our needs, or possibly defiant of our values and boundaries, or simply unaware/unconvinced of there importance.

When this happens, we should first challenge ourselves.   

Have we make choices that are inconsistent with our core values?  If so, which was wrong, the value or the choices?  Do we need to change one?

Have we been consistent in our actions and effective in our communications?  Or have we been sending a mixed messages?  Do we need to dedicate the time and effort to communicate better?

Have we looked at all the options we have available to us to help us navigate back to a "healthy place" where we can stay true to our values.  It's important to think broadly. Issuing ultimatums or taking timeouts work initially but not in the long run. They are not the only tools we have. We can change ourselves and how we interact.  We can change the relationship role in our life. We can alter the environment. We can exit.

Take action. Measured. Steady. Consistent.

Know your priorities.  Don't get caught up in dramas (conflict where one or both parties want to "win the fight" and have lost sight of solutions.

Try to collaborate and get buy-in on solutions. Be prepared to take unilateral action if that fails.

Remember goal is not to fight or to argue what right and wrong in an ideal world or to have it your way or to control others. 

The goal is to live true to your values (1) and the dependent values of the relationship (2).

There's a lot more, and all of it seems to be pertinent to your own situation, and I think it would be really helpful for you to check out   

[Eyeamme]

Thanks. I will read it through until I get it  :--)

[ArleighBurke]

J,

You've only known about PBD for 3 weeks - so you're on a very steep learning curve. Most people here would are trying to work it out after YEARS.

There's lot of good advice above. The only thing I wanted to add is to try not to listen to your daughters words, try to hear the feelign underneath them. And recognise that it is what she feels NOW, not later, not always.

So when she says "you are not allowed in the kids life anymore" she really means "I feel hurt RIGHT NOW by what happenned and RIGHT NOW, I FEEL like the kids would be better without you". She is unable to put that feeling in perspective of her whole life. Later, when she calms down or remembers something nice you've done, her feelings will change.

So you need to respond to her FEELING. And agreeing that she feels that way. Not trying to "put it in perspective", not trying to defend why what you did was OK, not telling her she should feel different. Simply "I can understand you feel hurt/angry/etc by what I did. I am sorry. If I felt my mother was a bad influence for my children I would feel like removing her from their lives as well". Find the "nugget of truth" in what she says - there was something (little) that wasn't right. Understand that the very small something made a HUGE emotion in your daughter, and empathise/apologise.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

[Eyeamme]

Thank you. I am too angry right now. Since I didn't know about BPD at the time we were visiting her and she had treated us horribly and then said awful things to me. Thinks like I have never been there for her. I simply chose to leave for the airport 30 minutes earlier than planned. She said I barged out. My husband was there and I think he is still shell shocked. I have been doing this for 30 years. I am tired. I can't do it anymore.