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[Parents! Get help here!]

My daughter just emailed me to say (We were suppose to be going to see them for Xmas)

"Guessing you're not coming. Let me know so we can still attempt to do something nice for the kids. Thanks."

I have decided not to go because I need to learn how to not get sucked in to her anger. What do I say? I see she is using her "I am the rational one here" voice.

J

[Eyeamme]

My daughter just emailed me to say (We were suppose to be going to see them for Xmas)

"Guessing you're not coming. Let me know so we can still attempt to do something nice for the kids. Thanks."

I have decided not to go because I need to learn how to not get sucked in to her anger. What do I say? I see she is using her "I am the rational one here" voice.

J

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rapt Reader]

Eyeamme, is there a chance that you might have some time before having to commit to going to her house or not for Christmas?

Is it possible that you can put her off in some "nice way" till you get your bearings and figure out if there is a way to sort it all out?

I've answered you in your other thread (here: Just trying to get through this) with some ideas for how you can maybe figure out a way to navigate a better relationship with your daughter, while protecting and nurturing yourself at the same time. If you can check that information out, maybe you will be able to figure out the next move, regarding Christmas?

You might be able to use that information to formulate a response to her new email that can give you the space to figure out the rest of it afterwards  

[Eyeamme]

I was already told in a rant that I shouldn't come to her house anymore. This time I feel like I need take her at face value. I really do not want to be with her for a long while. I am just trying to dig myself out. 30 years of me validating her and now I need a rest. I just said "nope"


J

[Rapt Reader]

Gee, I can understand your pain and desire to back off from her (and the pain you feel when you interact with her) for awhile  

You have probably figured out already that her feelings that resulted in her outburst to you have possibly changed (hence the email, right? It seems that she has tried to open the door to your coming for the Holidays, but I could be wrong; you know her better than I do   ) at this point. And I know that just because she may be over that last dysregulation of hers, that doesn't mean that you have recovered from it yet.

I've been there myself with my Husband (who has BPD traits) and Daughter-In-Law (who also has BPD traits), and getting to the point where I can detach from their hurtful words and actions took a lot of mindfulness and learning on my part. I'm hopeful that your taking some time and checking out those links I gave you in your other thread can help in some way for your peace of mind... .

[Eyeamme]

Yes, I thought it might be an "opening" but I just not "there" yet and after our last visit not able to tolerate it. Now that she is married with kids she has a responsibility not to use the kids as pawns. If she can't do that her husband needs to step up. I think it is unhealthy for the kids to feel the tension and hear her demean their Grandma and Papa. I am working on myself to be strong enough to put up with the verbal abuse. She will not get therapy.

[Rapt Reader]

I can see you are in a lot of emotional pain,  

One thing that I've done when I was in your shoes is to look at the process of learning how to be "strong enough to put up with the emotional abuse" as actually learning to understand how my loved ones' minds work, and getting to the point where I can detach myself from their dysregulations so I can respond in ways that make things better in my relationships.

All of the links I've been giving you in your threads have been really helpful to me in that endeavor  

[Eyeamme]

Thanks. Will do.

[Rapt Reader]

I know this is all really hard... .Our own pain at the end of a long road of having our loved one's dysregulations tearing our hearts into little pieces sometimes can leave us emotionally exhausted and fed up. So, please take this time of No Contact with her to take care of your own well-being and happiness. We've all been there, and know how important that is as a good foundation for whatever we end up doing regarding troubled relationships.

Please let us know if you have any questions about anything you read on this site (the links I've provided or the ones to the right-hand side of this page--they are all also incredibly helpful); it takes a while to take it all in and to figure things out. But the information and tips are invaluable to our own well-being.

But you are right about this situation being unhealthy for her children/your grandchildren... .If there is a way to ease this tension between your daughter and you and your husband, that would benefit the whole family, I'm sure  

[Eyeamme]

As I am discussing this with you she is sending me hate email. I am not answering.

J

[Rapt Reader]

Yikes!  

Is she upset because she feels that you are ignoring her?

If her emails are too hard to read and/or respond to right now, then I think your backing off and not responding to them right now probably is the best thing for your well-being... .

Unless you want some help with some sort of response to soothe her?

I'm sorry,  

[Eyeamme]

I said "I am sorry you feel like this"  she called me being passive aggressive. I didn't want her to feel ignored. Now I am not answering.

J

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rapt Reader]

Do you think this "Acceptance-Acknowledgement Declaration" from the Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder book (it's found on page 331) could work at this time? Here is the text, and I've used it word for word with great results with my son and Daughter-In-Law:

I never knew how much pain you were in. I never knew how much you suffered. I must have said and done so many things to hurt you because I did not understand or acknowledge your pain. I am so sorry. It was never my intention to cause you pain. What can we do now to improve our relationship?

This is what I was mentioning in your other thread... .When I used this statement in an email (twice, actually--months apart when the first email to both my son and D-I-L soothed my son, but didn't help with my D-I-L until I used it again months later... .), I also added some empathetic validation of underlying feelings/issues that I knew were causing all the angst with them. But didn't do any "JADEing" (no Justifying myself, Arguing my point, Defending myself, or Explaining of my actions). Just that statement bolded above and some empathy for the underlying feelings (not agreement with their version of the truth).

Or would doing something like this be too much, right now? I know it's easier to let it all be... .And your peace of mind might require you do that... .

And, you could just copy and paste that statement into an email with her, and see what happens? Or would it make things worse? (Though, that was never my experience... .)

[Eyeamme]

Nothing will soothe her other than me saying "I am sorry, you are right, I AM horrible to you". I will not do that and justify the absurdity of what she is saying. She is validated by everyone around her who are terrified by her (like her husband). I really just need a break from someone that has accused me of so many things I can't tell you. I am reading I am reading. I feel so angry I could spit. I know it isn't her fault. I know I need to find " myself" and know who I am but I think it may take a long time to heal myself. I have been going through this with her (so has rest of family) since she was little. I have bought in to that I am in fact a piece of dog doo.

[Rapt Reader]

Oh, Eyeamme   

Take it slowly, take care of your own self, and reading all you can on this site will be helpful, I promise... .

We're here for you, and know how you feel, and will be here to help you with the right words when you are ready  

[AVR1962]

Eyeamme, let me ask you something here... .your daughter and mine are the same using and doing the very same type of behavior. Is bio dad in the picture? How is your daughter's relationship with her father? Growing up was she closer to her dad than you? Does she feel like you favored one of the other children, that is if there are siblings?

The reason I ask these questions is that I have been in support groups for many years dealing with a BPD child, have read many books, and what I have found many times is that either the father and mother divorced and father basically abandoned the child, she was a daddy's girls and he left, or many times the mother feels like her exhusband could have also been BPD. You find others who do not fit this profile so I am just curious.

Perhaps some of this will make sense and maybe it will not pertain to your situation. My BPD daughter was 6 when her dad decided to leave us for the lady he was having an affair with. She was daddy's girl but she was able to spend time with me too until her dad left. At that point I was the fault of everything. He made no contact with her for 2 years, so basically he abandoned her and rightfully so she was distraught, she was acting out in school, not treating her friends well, using her little sister to get her to do her work. Her teacher suggested I have her go to counseling and they felt that she had made a hero out of her father, a figure hat no man could ever live up to but she believed it, a fantasy of sorts.

When her dad came back in her life he started telling her lies about me and about our life together. These lies were to make him look good and to favor him and he was very successful.

It seemed to me she was trying to find that male figure to replace the love she had for her dad, she became interested in males very early.

I noticed she was lying to others much like her dad did, making things up to win sympathy and her anger was definitely aimed at me, I was the bad guy in her life. I would talk to her and try to understand. When she had moments of true clarity she would tell me she didn't know why she was doing what she was doing. One time she told me it was like she had an angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other and they were fighting.

By the time she was 17, she was in full swing with lies and manipulation and I could see she was the spitting image of her father, her behavior almost became predictable based on what I knew of her father. When she was 18 she was diagnosed with BPD.

I have tried the "Acceptance-Acknowledgement Declaration" with almost word for word what was bolded in a previous reply. What I have found with my daughter is unless she is using me for something she wants nothing to do with me. We time a time of peace for a few years and I had a feeling the reason for all of it was because she wanted me to help finance her family's trip to Europe like I had done with her younger sister and my daughter is very much one that has to have everything "fair." They did the trip, said they wanted to do it again and ten our plans changed and when our plans changed her attitude towards me changed because she knew she wasn't going to get that second trip to Europe for her family.

My daughter is also the type to have her support system well in place and so she has them all to run to when she wants to rant and rave about how I am such a terrible person.

The last couple episodes with my daughter left me where you are now, exhausted and can no longer give and this is where I have finally placed my boundaries. If she believes I am the evil of all evil then she is entitled to her feelings and her judgement against me, there is nothing I can do if she chooses to see me in such light. I am no longer going to bend over backwards to make things work as one sided relationships do not work. Have I been perfect? No! Have I done everything by the book? No! I have apologized for my actions that I am aware that have hurt her but it never ends so I am putting an end to all of this.

For me the worst part is hearing the lies that she tells other family members, things I supposedly said and did tat did not happen. It's insane! So I have decided to let things be, let her figure out things for herself while I find what makes me happy. If she decides she ants to have a relationship with me again, this time we will have to talk. There will be no more waltzing back in my life like nothing happened trying to win me over because she wants to use me for something again.

Has your daughter ever apologized to you?

Another element here that I learned thru counseling is the dynamics of a family. Many times there is a golden child, the one that can do no wrong and the scapegoat who gets blamed. In your own family growing up were you the scapegoat? Many of us who were scapegoats marry someone who will treat us like our parents did which I did and I raised a child that treats m the same, my BPD daughter. Unfortunately parents often times cannot see when they have turned one child into the golden child and the other the scapegoat and feel fully justified in their blame an favor game, much like my daughter. There's a great deal of reading on the internet about the family scapegoat. Even ask yourself if you turned your own daughter into the scapegoat. Not saying you have done this but I think the reading and understanding could make some sense to your situation.

[Eyeamme]

Hi AVR1962!

My daughter's dad was in her life after we were divorced. He had 50% custody. He isn't the most emotionally mature but he really is kind and tries. My daughter cut him off and stopped living with him at all. She then ran away from me. He got her an apartment and paid for everything. She stopped talking to him about a year ago. She called her fathers wife an obscene name and that was that. She has also cut off her brother who she says is "the Golden Child" but in reality I just felt like I tried to protect him from her. She was awful to him.

My daughter has never once apologized. Never. I wrote the following just to get the hurt out. I wrote it BEFORE my therapist (she refuses to go because I am the only reason she is angry according to her) suggested BPD. I would never send this but it is how I feel.

When you start making me ashamed of who I am you up the price I have to pay to be in the kids lives. I can't pay it. Shame on you.

My biggest bad mother move is how badly I spoiled you and let you turn into a mean person.

When you say you raised yourself all I think is I should have had it so easy. First off you were 17 not 16 when you ran away. I know because I called the police and a therapist. They said we didn't even need to emancipate you because you were almost 18. Also you did not live on the streets. Dad got you an apartment in Westwood and was supporting you.


You bring out the worse in me. I am what you think an airhead because you make me so nervous that I have a hard time thinking. I am so use to jumping around so you don't have a tantrum.

You are never ever ever happy for anything in my life and honestly could care if I am happy or not. When I hurt myself your main point to me was that it wasn't as bad as your accident. Although you believe you raised yourself I was there. I know how bad your accident was. I still have flashbacks and nightmares. I just wasn't ever allowed to mention it or you would tell me it is always about me.

I never trusted that you would not turn on me too. I have never seen you be loyal to anyone. You end up hurting people and they leave.

Your #1 defense is to make everyone feel stupid.

Your husband can communicate. You have hurt him so badly that he has shut down and will just agree with whatever you say or makes up stuff to shut you up.  I stick up for him because I know how he feels.

You can never apologize. I don't think you have ever apologized to me.

Being "right" is all that matters to you. You don't care about people's feelings. You have no empathy for anyone.

I now never do anything "right" with the boys. Watching TV and doing things they love for the week I am visiting will not kill them. Putting me, my husband and their father down in front of them will hurt them more than non gmo grapes.

My "man" and I have been married for 15 years and you hurting me is his business.  He has been nothing but wonderful to you and he is allowed to voice his opinion. If you don't like it that is really too bad. Maybe you should care about your own husband the same way.  If you have issues with men because of my bad choices (which I have taken full responsibility for and acknowledged and apologized for) then get therapy. I will not kiss your ass out of guilt anymore. If you can't accept my apology we don't need to have a relationship.

I know you are resentful that we moved. I know that you are resentful I don't want to live close to you. I know "other parents" do better. Other "kids" don't treat their parents the way you treat us. You are abusive.

When do you go out of your way for anyone or anything unless it makes you look "good"?

Anything I confide in you now you use against me.  You think I am weak but believe me I am not. You take my true love for you and turn it into weakness in your head.

I am ashamed that my daughter doesn't treat me well. I feel cheated and angry over this fact. I see other mothers being treated with love but I don't know what this is like from my daughter. I never have.

It is you that is keeping the kids away from all their grandparents. People have to behave your way or you treat them like crap. It isn't enough how much we love those kids. I hate that I can't be in their life unless I take your. They will know the truth one day. They see it. They will resent you.

I know you think this came out of the blue. I guess the last straw is when you texted me  wanting to fight. When I tried to defuse it you just kept at me even though you know that I hate fighting more than anything and it hurts me. I am sorry that the last thing in the world I want to do is hurt my kids. If you can't understand that as a mother then I feel sorry for the boys.

You try to keep everyone out of my life so they can't witness how you treat me.

What have you ever done for me? You haven't been there for me in any way. You have been abusive to me for as long as long as I can remember. You make me feel invisible because everything has to be about you or I am an ass.

The last texts you sent were the last straw. Only so many times you can accuse me of being a bad (Fill in the blank). I get it. You really don't like me. I am not sure you ever did.

It is you that rewrites history. You then scream at me if I say that isn't what happened.

You have forced me to walk away from you, your husband and my babies. I will never be good enough for you. Never. I will not take your abuse anymore. Even for the boys. You blame everyone else for their behavior, but truth is I am ashamed of you. You can't get along with anyone, your house is filthy even though you stay home. Your husband comes home from working and has to take care of all your. You are lazy and mean. I am the most ashamed of how mean you are.

Whew... .

J.

[mggt]

AMEN There are so many of us here that feels exactly the way you do Please take care of yourself   

[AVR1962]

Eyeamme, it is good to get that hurt out and this is a safe place to do that. Now take what you wrote and turn each line into positives for you. For example

"I am ashamed that my daughter doesn't treat me well. I feel cheated and angry over this fact. I see other mothers being treated with love but I don't know what this is like from my daughter. I never have."

How can you turn this into a positive that makes you feel good about yourself, a strong person, and not the victim? You feel shame as mentioned so deal with that shame, you own that but you do not share that with your daughter. You feel cheated... .comes to terms with those feelings, again do not share this with your daughter but try to reach a point of acceptance. Anger comes from hurt which then cycles with self pity... .find a way to stop the cycle. Every time you hear yourself blaming your daughter pull back and only acknowledge your part. How could you have acted differently? How could you have worded things differently. You see that is the only thing that will make a difference for you... .the way you begin to look at this, accept it and move forward for yourself without blame for your daughter. This might mean just not saying anything at all for awhile or if anyone mentions daughter you can say "I only want her to be happy." In truth I am sure that is what you want for her. You see what I am trying to say here?

I have a great book that I highly suggest... ."Change Your Mind Change Your Life" by Karen Casey. It's about learning to accept that each of us has a journey and only we can find our way, we really can help no one. We have to learn to step aside and respect one's journey. That does not mean that you have to keep walking on eggshells but it could mean learning to deal with your situation by reacting differently with your daughter.

[Eyeamme]

Those things I wrote were getting my anger out and I don't want to see the positive right now. I am furious and I have every right to be. I would never EVER EVER let my daughter see what I wrote. Not everything has to be positive. I am ok with that.

[mimi99]

Of course you have a right to be angry. If you want to heal, you will eventually need to look in a different direction and learn to be happy in spite of the way you have been treated. I think this is what AVR1962 is trying to get at with her suggestions. Not to make you feel bad that you are upset. We have all been there, feeling abused and mistreated by our children--having cruel and untrue things said about us. It is heartbreaking and leaves us exhausted, angry, frustrated and (for me) powerless.

This is a good place to vent. We can say things here that we would never actually say to our children. No one else understands what it is like, except the others here who also live with BPDs. Hoping for peace and healing for you.

[Eyeamme]

Thanks Mimi. That was all I was trying to say.

I have no doubt that I will heal. I have no doubt that I will be able to be left vine again to my girl with boundaries. I just need to barf out all the hurt, self doubt, and anger. I can not tell you all how thankful I am to have found your support.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[AVR1962]

Those things I wrote were getting my anger out and I don't want to see the positive right now. I am furious and I have every right to be. I would never EVER EVER let my daughter see what I wrote. Not everything has to be positive. I am ok with that.

You have ever right to be angry.  Do not feel bad. You are safe here!

[Eyeamme]

Thank you so much. I can not tell you how much I appreciate the support.

J.

[AVR1962]

You're welcome! I think no one really understands until they have been thru this themselves. My parents and my grandmother thought they could help my daughter... .daughter's mother-in-law has been very understanding and helpful and I felt they all were pointing fingers at me, like I had not tried hard enough or not the right way. They all had their hand in trying to help my daughter and they all gave up.

What bothers you the most about your daughter's behavior? What has hurt you the most?

For me, it has been her assumptions which I see as lies that she tells to anyone who will listen. Some of them are flat out lies and I don't know if her memory is false and she recalls things that didn't happen or if she is simply trying to manipulate. One time she told one of her children that I forced her step brother to eat something he didn't want to eat. That did not happen. Why would she say that? It has been all about making me the bad guy so her support system will not have anything to do with me, they have to support her at all costs. My grand mother is the only one that has told her that these tings she says didn't happen. I think my parents feel caught in the fire. My other two daughters know that she cannot be trusted but she does have a relationship with her two step brothers who did not want me in their lives so they make quite a team together. When she takes this to my grand children I find it the most hurtful as they are completely innocent and should be able to love me and vise versa but she will not allow it. There is not anything I can do about it though, I just have to accept and hope one day when the kids are on their own that I can connect with them.

[Eyeamme]

For most my daughter's life has been validated. One by one everyone has left. I am the "last man standing". She has her husband and the grandkids are just 2 and 5. What hurts me most is no contact with my babies (including my daughter). I need to save me. I can not listen anymore.

J

[Kate4queen]

If it were me? I wouldn't go. If I wasn't in a good place emotionally and couldn't face my son with BPD. I wouldn't go.

Every time we go back to the mainland my DH and I have a discussion about whether WE are ready to see our 24 year old son and face him without fear of him going off at us again. So far the answer has been Not Yet. Not Never, but not yet. We're not feeling safe enough yet to attempt that.

So if you're emotionally not ready to see your DD? Then send her a nice email asking her what you can do to send your grandkids their presents and leave it at that.