Email trail about uBPDmom behavior?

[kells76]

SD9 found out that DH is getting a lawyer. Whether Mom & Stepdad told her, or whether she overheard something, or was allowed to overhear something, is not clear. SD9 then wrote DH a letter (see prev posts) that seems textbook Divorce Poison.

DH & I are on the same page that saying nothing isn't an option. So the questions are -- what to say, and to whom? He wants to email Mom about how it hurts the kids when they feel like they have to shoulder this adult info. I am 99.9% sure that Mom won't change her behavior if she gets that email, but at this point it wouldn't be about making Mom change, it'd be about DH making his concerns known in a timely and traceable way.

What are you thoughts on if it's worth it for DH to get on email that he is concerned about the kids and opposes them knowing about adult matters? Do you guys see any way that it could backfire? If it is a good idea, how could DH write the email in a nonblaming way that still shows his concern?

Ultimately, we both worry that not having DH's concern on the record is a bad idea. Plus there's the 0.01% chance that Mom might see the error of her ways

[Turkish]

If it's written into the stipulation "adults shall not discuss legal matters in front of kids" it would help a bit. Is trust verbiage in there?

[kells76]

Turkish, thanks for writing back;

DH & uBPDmom have been divorced for >4 years; the PP thus far has been ":)H will have access to the kids when he's not at work". You can guess how well that's gone. So, no, unfortunately no verbiage like that, but DH will definitely include it in the PP that either (a) he and Mom agree on in mediation (5% chance?) or (b) that he files and she objects to (95% chance).

Given that there's no PP statement about "no legal discussion that kids hear", is it still worth it for DH to address -- if only to get on paper that he's not ok with it and it hurts the kids?

[Slate78]

Turkish, thanks for writing back;

DH & uBPDmom have been divorced for >4 years; the PP thus far has been ":)H will have access to the kids when he's not at work". You can guess how well that's gone. So, no, unfortunately no verbiage like that, but DH will definitely include it in the PP that either (a) he and Mom agree on in mediation (5% chance?) or (b) that he files and she objects to (95% chance).

Given that there's no PP statement about "no legal discussion that kids hear", is it still worth it for DH to address -- if only to get on paper that he's not ok with it and it hurts the kids?

Honestly Kells, I would. That's the route we have taken. You are right that it changes nothing but I think it's good to point out whenever we can that she is damaging the kids. Our BM was crying to the kids about losing child support because they didn't want to live with her, and that she couldn't afford to live without it, begging them to stay (she doesn't work). Involving them in things that were way above their heads. We detailed our objections - that particular behaviour did stop but as you know with BPDs, they always find another, slightly different way to do the same thing that you haven't specifically addressed, and the info had already been clearly communicated to the kids. Your BM sounds so much like mine (I am a stepmom), I really feel for you.

[livednlearned]

Here are some things I learned from Bill Eddy -- maybe some of this is useful?

BIFF:

Brief: Keep it brief. Long explanations and arguments trigger upsets for HCPs (high-conflict persons).

Informative: Focus on straight information, not arguments, opinions, emotions, or defending yourself (you don’t need to).

Friendly: Have a friendly greeting (such as “Thanks for responding to my request”); close with a friendly comment (such as “Have a good weekend”).

Firm: Have your response end the conversation. Or give two choices on an issue and ask for a reply by a certain date.

The more you write, the bigger a target there is for them to aim at. Use your judgment about your particular situation.

Another helpful way to approach communication involves EAR statements:

EAR Statement: Empathy, Attention, & Respect.

Bill said depending on the type of high-conflict co-parent, this may or may not be as useful. He described the three types this way:

Three types of PD types

*Generally cooperative. The way you talk can make a difference

*Pretty uncooperative, but not dangerous. Best to avoid f2f discussions.

*Uncooperative, also dangerous: DV, significant substance abuse, child abuse, extreme alienation, other mental illnesses. In these cases, you are probably not going to want to interact F2F. Or, if you do, keep it to an absolute minimum.

For this reason, EAR is used less than BIFF responses.

Example: “I can understand your frustration -- this is a very important decision in your life. Don’t worry, I will pay full attention to your concerns about this issue and any proposals you want to make. I have a lot of respect for your commitment to solving this problem, and I look forward to solving it too."

Bill described how a person with BPD responds: The right brain tends to be very creative, sees the big picture, and also seems to be responsible for detecting threats in the big picture. The left brain is responsible for analyzing problems, coming up with solutions, and looking at details. With someone who is BPD, Bill imagines that the right hemisphere of their brain splits off and hits the roof.

So when we use EAR statements, we're trying to bring the right half of the brain down off the ceiling so we can discuss proposals and solutions.

People with BPD feel there is a threat. It's best to turn it into a “we” problem. Bill describes some different ways that high-conflict people are triggered. The left phrase is their fear, and the right side is how we respond:

Being abandoned: I want to help you, I respect your efforts

Being seen as inferior: I’ll pay attention, I’ll listen

Being ignored: Its just rules we all have to follow

Some other helpful tips:

*Avoid believing or agreeing with content

*Avoid volunteering to “fix it” for them (in an effort to calm down their emotions)

(high-conflict people blame others who make decisions for them. Don’t become responsible for their problem by suggesting the solution.)

*Be honest about empathy and respect (find something you truly believe).

*If you are stuck, just say, “I’m paying attention, tell me more.”

*Depending on the type of PD, you may want to keep an arms-length relationship. Don’t get too close.

*Also, keep in mind that you don’t have to listen forever. HCPs don’t seem to grieve and heal losses. They keep repeating the past over and over. They don’t get things off their chest, which causes them to complain over and over. Give them an EAR statement, and then ask them for their proposal.

*Sometimes, the best response is no response.

In Splitting: near the end of the book, after the court stuff is all done, Eddy discusses whether parents should fight to have no contact or be friendly. Eddy and Randi Kreger (who coauthored the book) recommend trying to have a balance. Not too close, not too rejecting. Of divorced couples, 75% do not have a friendly relationship, that's for all divorcing couples not just high-conflict. Find a balance that you can maintain over the years. Don’t try to solve problems by being too friendly. If you are absolutely rejecting, that often keeps triggering them. Structure things so you can keep things in a stable relationship. Find a comfortable arms-length relationship.

How to Make a Proposal

Any concern about the past can be turned into a proposal about the future. Eddy has a little book called: So What’s Your Proposal.

Proposals include:

*Who does What, When and Where

Make sure the HCPs are responsible for problem solving.

How to respond to a proposal.

First ask questions.

*Can you give me some more details?

*What is your picture of what I would do in your proposal?

*How would you take xxxx into account?

After you hear a proposal and ask questions, just say:

*Yes, no, or I’ll think about it.

*Avoid criticizing a proposal. Just say yes, no or I’ll think about it.

*And if you don’t like a proposal, make a new one.

Proposals tend to lead to agreements. If you order something, the high-conflict parent will likely undermine it.

How to manage proposals when there is a mediator involved.

*Avoid criticizing a proposal. Just say, Yes No or I’ll think about it.

*If you don’t like a proposal, just make a new one.

*What should we do now…

[ForeverDad]

I sent emails to create a paper trail.  To this day I send an email if I feel it would help to document the facts, my reasonable position.  Not much was used in court, courts and lawyers evidently prefer to deal with as little as possible "on the record".

However, I had a unique situation.  After the police escorted my ex out, never to reside with me again, I took a look at the browser history.  Lo and behold, one screen file for her email had me listed for blocking.  To my knowledge — 9 years and 51 weeks later — I'm still blocked.  Whenever I say, "I sent you a copy/notice" she'll respond, "No you didn't."  And no one cared that I suspect I was/am blocked.