Infidelity or An Attention Stunt

[KaishaMikasa]

It has been sometime since I wrote but I can assure you not due to lack of drama. My wife is diagnosed BPD, MDD with anxiety. She has pull so many different stunts that I don't have time to write them all down. Since I have started working on my self I have gained ground in not being the one that pays all the bills or recues her when she has money problems.  Mind you she make $90,000 a year and until recently paid nothing.  She also did not cook, clean or buy groceries.  However, the way she is fighting back by my lack of reaction is to call the police.  This has happened twice and they have never taken me.  In fact, the first time they kicked her out of the house for two days.  She did come back that night and I was stupid and let her back into the house.  I had to sit in my living room and tell my sons 11 and 1 that the police removed your mother.  Not fun! 

Anyway recently she has become very dysregulated and now I simple leave the room after telling her I will not deal with her like this.  I get crazy text messages that I am abandoning, reject and taking advantage of her.  Please be aware that we both work from home and see each other all the time. However, I am busy work and do not stay in the same room with her as I am on the phone a lot.  She does not like the noise.

So a couple of days ago she goes out with a friend she use to work with and never sees.  She really does not have many friends except a couple in the neighborhood I introduced her to.  She comes home very drunk and pukes in the back garden. She then comes back brushers her teeth and take everything off and wants sex (TMI I know but there is a reason I am telling you this).  Next day she is up and down emotionally.  The day after that we go out and get some things done together. The day she went out we had a meeting at my sons school but I had to move it due to a conflict with My T appointment.  I did not tell her about the appointment and when I asked to move the appointment she went off.  She pushed for days and I finally told it was a T appointment.  So the day after that she met up with an old boyfriend from high school which she mentions in passing.  I did not react figuring it was baiting me.  She puts an appointment on the family calendar for today right after all of that for lunch.  She gets all dolled up and I don't ask I figure it is an attempt at attention.  However, I got in and looked and she was facebook messaging him for over a week and did before and after having sex with me while I am in the room. 

So the question is do you think it is a game because she keeps bringing up things like "I wore too much perfume today." or is it she is having an affair?  By the way she binge watches shows and her most recent is "The Affair".  I haven't reacted because my T and I talked and she know my wife and she said it sounds like an attention stunt.  I would leave her today if it were not for my boys.  I have worked on my Codendency and detachment over the past several years of crazy and don't really like her that much.  Another point to bring up is her mother is a serial infidel.  So she may just be following in mom's footsteps.

Thanks for any help you can give and tell me about your experiences with BPD infidelity. 

[KaishaMikasa]

Cheating I caught her and have solid proof.  I have to say I strangely feel relieved.  I feel for my sons but it is out of my hands now.

[C.Stein]

Sorry to hear that.  Not something I would handle well.  I can't even handle deception well, let alone infidelity piled onto it. Unfortunately the gut instinct is usually right.

[Hope12345]

All I can tell you is my BPDw behaved much the same way when she was actively cheating, but I did not know it at the time.  Had I checked her phone at the time, there would have been no doubt.

As harsh as this may sound, if I was in that situation again, I would have taken her phone from her mid-text and read the messages.  Probably would have resulted in a violent outburst from her though.

I now trust my gut a lot more because all the times those little "gut feelings" told me something was up, I now know something really was... .every time.

Maybe I am a bit jaded, but I think sexual acting out is a far more common trait among BPDs than many care to admit... .except those who have caught their spouse and no longer have doubt.  Statistically, it occurs in over 40% of "normal" marriages.  Factor in one of them having an intense need for validation, little empathy, and poor impulse control... .you do the math.

[Hope12345]

Sorry man.  I know how it feels.  No words are going to give you comfort right now.

[KaishaMikasa]

Got her phone and Facebook messages.  They are talking constantly and setting up a date for next week while I am out of town.  This guy is a loser why do they replace us with losers.  I make very good money and she lives on the water!  This guy has a dhitty 2 bedroom house and drives a junky old car.  I guess I am too boring.

[AsGoodAsItGets]

You have proof.  I can see why you dont like this person.  Ate you going to stay for the kids, or whays your plan now.  So sorry this has happened to you.  It happend to 7 to at least 4 times.  That never bothered me though.  Idk why, i felt pain from the relationship and bu,   please keep coming back for support, since you have children, and she has called cop, she will fight you tooth and nail, keeping this to yourself and documenting her behavior, and and having future custody being more favorable, and protecting your business, maybe the best course of action, even if it take a year to make sure everything is in your favor before you even confront her,  hell, honestly thier no point of even wasting time with confronting her.  You may need to secretly get a marriage lawyer to protect you children and yourself from her.  Please keep sharing, and seeking support

[Hope12345]

If your wife is anything like mine, he was never a replacement... .and that probably will not be any easier to deal with.  When I used to frequent the infidelity support sites, I would read how people thought the worse thing their spouse did was cheat and leave them for someone else.  I argued the worse thing is they cheat and never leave.  Instead, they try to maintain a secret life they never intend to tell their spouse about.  They compartmentalize both worlds.  They can look you in the eye and tell you they love you, and be texting about the next hook up 5 minutes later.

I admit, the moment I read your initial post I triggered hard and struggled with whether or not I should post anything at all because it is never a good idea to try to offer support when your own emotions are going haywire.

Affairs are like drugs to some BPDs.  They offer them their validation "fix" because they are not capable of dealing with their lack of self esteem and have not been taught how to validate themselves, or receive it from "safe" sources.  My BPDw had several affairs during our marriage.  The only thing they had in common was they showed her attention and made her feel validated.  The sex just kept the validation coming.

I am not going to pretend to have the answers you need right now but will make some suggestions.  Don't make any drastic decisions right now.  Your head is not in a place to make long term decisions.  I suggest getting into IC very soon and seeing your doctor about anti-anxiety meds.  Ativan was a godsend for me during the initial months.  Even if you tell yourself you are strong enough to handle it without meds, get them anyway.  You won't be able to get in to see your doctor at 2am if that panic attack hits.  When all you can think about is asking her "why" over and over, never getting the response that will satisfy that question, and every attempt to answer it just fuels more anger.

Keep posting when you can.  It helps, trust me.  No matter what she tells you or what others may say, this is all on her.  Nothing you did or did not do resulted in the choices she made.  Infidelity is not the result of issues in the marriage.  It is a result of issues within the individual.  In the end, she did it because she felt entitled to.  She justified it to herself and her justifications will be her initial "why's".  Remember those justifications are distorted.  Regardless what her stated reasons were, she had a choice.  She could have made a different one.

Be wary of the info and advice you get from infidelity focused sites should you venture in that direction.  Although they can be helpful, they often fail to factor in the BPD, and it is a significant factor.  BPD is not an excuse, and don't accept it as one, but it does change how the affair needs to be addressed, should you eventually decide to attempt to save the marriage.  Much of the info and advice in self help books related to affairs do not easily apply to someone with a personality disorder.

You are not alone.

[KaishaMikasa]

I am not trying to save the marriage and have said nothing.  I have Xanax and Wellbutrin it is hard not to talk about it but I am building my case.  What kills me is she acting like nothing is up.  She is without conscience and I hate divorcing because of my boys.  However, I deserve better!

[Sadly]

Sad this is but what I find interesting is:-

I have to say I strangely feel relieved.  I feel for my sons but it is out of my hands now.

You have mentioned that you don't like her. I don't like mine either, there is not a lot to like, but I do love him. You don't mention if you love her? Infidelity for me was always going to be the deal breaker, not something I could accept, even once. I remember posting once when I was struggling with leaving or staying and actually said " I wish he would be unfaithful because  however much it hurt I wouldn't have to make the choice"  When you say it's out of your hands now is that what you mean too?  

[Creativum]

All I can tell you is my BPDw behaved much the same way when she was actively cheating, but I did not know it at the time.  Had I checked her phone at the time, there would have been no doubt.

As harsh as this may sound, if I was in that situation again, I would have taken her phone from her mid-text and read the messages.  Probably would have resulted in a violent outburst from her though.

I now trust my gut a lot more because all the times those little "gut feelings" told me something was up, I now know something really was... .every time.

Maybe I am a bit jaded, but I think sexual acting out is a far more common trait among BPDs than many care to admit... .except those who have caught their spouse and no longer have doubt.  Statistically, it occurs in over 40% of "normal" marriages.  Factor in one of them having an intense need for validation, little empathy, and poor impulse control... .you do the math.

I am with you 854% on this!  BPD commonly occurs with ADHD, and mine had both diagnoses. People BPD and/or ADHD have impulse control problems, particularly around sex.  If you have both disorders, it's way worse.  Mine ... .I'm sorry ... .but my ex is nothing but a common tramp.  He will sleep with ANYONE that will have him.  He cheated on me in the restrooms at his job!  And not only did he cheat, he was actively trying to cheat every time he saw a customer whom he fancied. He'd follow them down there, stand five feet from the urinal with his pants around his knees, and smile at them.  He finally got reported when he went after three of his coworkers in one week, and this is how I found out it was such a pervasive problem.  I couldn't pinpoint it but I knew he was being sexually inappropriate in our relationship.

And you ALWAYS know they're doing it, even if you can't prove it.  Something will be off.  In my case, and this sounds disgusting but it was definitely how I noticed, he ejaculated very very little in the evenings IF we would have sex.  A young man his age should be uh ... .spring-loaded and um ... .effusive ... .after a couple of days going without.  He barely produced anything.

[KaishaMikasa]

I did and deeply but the last several years have been so tough I have all but lost it.  I love my boys and she targets the 11 yr old when I am not around.  So I have hung in for him but this is a deal breaker.  Did you divorce and did you have kids?

[Turkish]

I think mine did it as part of attention seeking, yet at the time blamed me for not telling her to stay home.

What's the plan now? What are you thinking? I'm so sorry that you and your kids are having to go through this. For me, it was additionally painful to see what effect it had on the kids. Our son was 3, just having turned 4 when his mom was finally able to move out. Our son knew something was going on. It was very tough. Your 11 yo is definitely old enough to figure it out.

[KaishaMikasa]

The plan is divorce but I am getting my case in order.  I can afford the family home and she can't.  I wish it never happened but her behavior keeps getting worse.  I am tired of always being inguard.  My belief is it started as an attention stint.  She also booked a trip to see another high school friend in Nov.  she has changed her hair back to the way it was in high school and has started reaching out to high school friends.  She has isolated herself and complains about my business travel saying " you get to go everywhere.  So started as an attention stunt but the old boyfriend has grown into something else.  She is absolutely manic and taking in a little girl voice.  I think she feels this is a high school game and I don't thing she has started planning leaving. I am the high life but your right she feels entitled to play the field. 

Thank you to everyone please keep responding it makes me less lonely feeling.

[Turkish]

It sounds like you are being wise about this. Is there a risk of further police activity?

Keep a journal in a safe place. It can be legally admissible if needed. I kept one for almost a year after she moved out, too, in case I ever needed it. Dates, times, facts.

[Sadly]

Hi again, yes I guess love can be eroded over that amount of time and amount of abuse. I feel for you and your little boys especially when you say she targets the elder one. Will you be going for custody of your boys?

No not married and no children thank goodness. He has a son from a previous long term relationship who has problems too, its all so sad because he loves him very much but has no contact with him, not his choice btw.

It is going to be very hard for like as not once you start the ball rolling she will realise what she is losing and it wont be a game anymore for her. I guess the only thing you can do is hang in there for your boys, get through the divorce trauma with as little impact on them as possible but you will only be in control of your behaviour not hers. However sad it must be a great relief for you that you can actually start moving towards a happier more stable life for you and your boys. I wish you all the luck in the world  

[KaishaMikasa]

I am having a bad morning.  She has been absolutely giddy and I feel like getting into this before leaving on my trip.  I have considered addressing it and sending some of my documentation to her BFs live in girlfriend. I think it is a desire to strike back knowing it would keep her from going out while I am gone.  However, I don't think much good would come from it but would hit her abandoment fears pretty hard.  Thing is the kids are going to be home with her.  It just kills that she lives in a world with no consequences.

[C.Stein]

I am having a bad morning.  She has been absolutely giddy and I feel like getting into this before leaving on my trip.  I have considered addressing it and sending some of my documentation to her BFs live in girlfriend. I think it is a desire to strike back knowing it would keep her from going out while I am gone.  However, I don't think much good would come from it but would hit her abandoment fears pretty hard.  Thing is the kids are going to be home with her.  It just kills that she lives in a world with no consequences.

Perhaps poking the sleeping bear is not a good idea if you aren't going to be around to mop up the fallout?

[KaishaMikasa]

I know and I won't because it could negatively impact my position in the divorce.  It would certainly be some nicely needed catharsis.  I have some really close friends that are really helping me but neither understand the disorder.  This board is a very valuable resource in con trolling by reaction instinct.

[Hope12345]

I don't know your situation so continue to trust your gut, but remember she lives in a world without consequences because she has convinced herself you will never know, and what you don't know will not hurt you.  They compartmentalize, and a sure fire way to knock them back into reality is to blow up those compartments.  Telling her you know, and telling POS's GF is a great way to accomplish this, but not until you return.  Do it before and there is a good chance he will be sleeping in your house while you are away, after his GF kicks him to the curb.

That said, I would do it once your trip is over, using whatever evidence you can gather in the meantime.  I doubt you will be able to keep it to yourself for much longer anyway.

[KaishaMikasa]

Well she is texting the other guy constantly and wearing him out on Facebook.  I get the feeling she is starting freak him out.  She went grocery shopping for over an hour and came home with only four bags.  I asked about doing the deed just to Check her answer.  It was I am too sleepy.  Here's the question I have is there more than one or is she some sort of hook up site?  How do I find out? Also I think she is having a full breakdown.  I notified my family today that the divorce is coming so they are there to help my kids while I am out.  I am also considering cutting my trip short.  My oldest asked my what is up with mom?  He said she is acting really weird and she acts like she is up to something.  Even my 16 yr old sees it!

[KaishaMikasa]

The reason I ask about more than one is that the other guy was home I checked with his GF. 

[C.Stein]

I don't think it matters if it's 1 or 10.  She crossed a line that should never be crossed.

[Turkish]

Say she has something like a Damascus Road experience (unlikely, but possible... .pwBPD are unpredictable). Would you have any feelings or inclination to try and move forward, even given what she's likely done or is doing?

[KaishaMikasa]

True done is done but the more evidence the better my case for custody.

[Hope12345]

Wow.  It's like I am reliving what I went through several years ago through you.  My BPDw acted very similar to what you are describing.  We have since reconciled and she is committed to accepting her diagnosis and committed to treatment, which I am actively involved in.  My assumptions of what I think is going on is based on what I saw and what she was able to learn about herself over time.

When my wife was at this point, she was in full on self destruct mode.  Think heroin addict or alcoholic.  She is addicted to the attention and validation which she craves, but her BPD prevents her from fulfilling... .her cup has no bottom.  She probably is freaking this guy out and senses he is pulling away so she is fishing for others.  At this point some may label her a sex addict but I would disagree.  She is not seeking sex, she is seeking validation.  The sex is just a means to an end for her.

They say women cheat because they seek an emotional connection... .and this is where you can start throwing all the crap you read about regarding infidelity out the window when dealing with BPD.  She is seeking validation and attention.  She has no solid plans of leaving the marriage and finding someone else.  In fact, she is seeking out men who can't offer that because they are either involved with others or have clearly stated they are not interested in a relationship.  That does not mean she will not be effected by feelings of abandonment.  She will, and feelings of being rejected by one will cause her to chase another.  She will not wait for one affair to end before starting another though... .so yes, more than one is possible, and likely.

In my wife's case, this self destruction cycle ended after all those she sought out for validation rejected her and she fell into a deep state of depression.  At that point she came to me wanting out of the marriage.  At that point I was still oblivious to the cheating though and fought to save the marriage.  Even with everything she was doing behind my back, she was unable to accept her responsibility in her situation.  To her, her depression was due to being married to me.  Our marriage complicated her ability to be validated by others.  She saw me as the problem, and felt no guilt over what she had done.  Absolutely NO conscience until I snooped on her computer and saw an email confirming at least one affair occurred(old high school friend reconnected on FB).  It wasn't until she was confronted with what she was doing, and others made aware of it, that she actually felt some guilt.  This was not her "wake up" moment though... .unfortunately.

Enough about me though.  This is about you.  No two people's situation are identical but yours appear to share some characteristics to mine.  I would definitely cut your trip short if you could, for your kid's sake.  She is currently at the height of her "addiction".  Her marriage, and her kids, are no longer high on her priority list.  Logic, reason, and the ability to make rational decisions just took a train out of town.

My advice... .get your ducks in a row so you and your kids are safe.  When it becomes time to confront, blow her compartments up.  Everyone should know what she is doing... .your family, her family, friends, and partners of the guys she is involved with.  Leave her no place to run and no one to manipulate.  Nothing will force them back to reality better than this and increase the odds that she will "wake up" and get help. Even if it is too late to save the marriage, she still needs to be a parent, and she needs to get help for her BPD to do this.

Good luck brother!

[KaishaMikasa]

So what was her wake up moment and what kind of treatment is she in?  I think you are right about it being an issue of validation but my concern is for the kids once we split.  When they are with her how will she act and what kind of men are they going to be around with her?  I have to be honest the affair doesn't have me worked up And the only thing bothering me about divorce is the custody issue.

[Hope12345]

Custody was big for me too.

Her wake up point, from what I could tell, was me moving out and making sure her support system, primarily her family, knew why I moved out.  I too was concerned with what kind of person she was going to bring around my son but it never happened, so I was never placed in that situation.

My conditions for reconciling involved a number of things but therapy was a huge one.  Not just your typical talk therapy where you go in, blame others, dwell on your childhood, and manipulate the therapist (if she is in IC, I would bet this is what is going on now).  My wife needed to acknowledge this was all on her and it was her responsibly to fix it.  I am adamantly opposed to MC to deal with infidelity initially.  It implies the relationship was the issue, and repairing relationship problems will prevent it from occurring again.  WRONG!

Her distorted thinking and unhealthy need for validation, and unhealthy means to obtain it is the problem, or at least one of the major ones.  She needed to work on this.  We had stumbling blocks and she needed to change therapists in order to find one experienced with BPD, experienced with the manipulation, and willing to confront and address her BS.  Holding her accountable is key.  She was willing to do this so I was willing to attempt reconciliation.  We are still a work in progress.  There are no guarantees and her therapist made this clear from the start.

[KaishaMikasa]

I absolutely agree about MC and talk therapy for someone this disordered.  It is a lame fest and when the counsellors figured her out she just quit. I am going to check with my attorney but I want her to leave.  I can afford the house and she can't and I want the boys to have a stable place as this happens.

[KaishaMikasa]

Hope12345 you are very helpful and I really appreciate you taking the time to comment.