Parenting with a an ex-spouse with BPD/dealing with parental alienation

[Panda39]

I was part of another thread about parental alienation and kids spying on you.I was asked how did I handle it? Working on the answer became the whole story and rather than hijack someone else's thread I thought I would post my answer separately.

How did I handle it?  

Initially I didn't handle any of it well... .I was ANGRY!  I was so disgusted by the whole thing I would have been fine if my SO left his kids with his wife and cut them all loose.  Sometimes I was angry at him too for not standing up to the ex or the kids.

But I knew these were children… his children, I didn't leave my son with his alcoholic dad when I divorced and I knew my SO wouldn't give up on his daughters.  As hard as the fight was and as much as I hated it all, I respected him as a dad and loved him as a man for fighting for his girls.

We didn't know about BPD back then, I didn't even fully comprehend or fully articulate that the uBPDxw's abuse was "abuse" and her neglect of the girls was "neglect".  I just knew what I saw was really wrong.

The alienation was well underway when I met my SO several months into his separation.  The worst of the alienation happened the first year of my SO's separation (it took 2 years for the divorce to be final).  

That first year his uBPDxw had primary custody.  My SO saw the kids (D9 & D14 at the time) every other weekend and Wednesday nights for dinner.  I at this time had no contact with his children they knew of me but I stayed in the background, I saw my role as a support for my SO.

There were some unusual circumstances at the beginning of the separation that gave mom a head start on her mission to alienate the girls from their dad.  My SO had been between jobs when the separation began, and shortly thereafter landed a new job, and was sent across the country for training for about a month.

Now knowing what I know now about BPD I can only imagine what a hellish month that was for their daughters.  Their parent’s marriage falling apart, their dad is gone away on business, and they are left to deal with mom who is a complete mess.   Dysregulated mom was filling the minds of her daughters with all the horrible “abuses” of their father…exaggerations, distortions, and lies. Her feelings = facts and she convinced the girls those distorted facts were true in the vacuum that was created by their dad’s absence. His abandonment of her became his abandonment of them too. Turning them against him. By the time dad returned from his training it was “us” against dad.  Mom was the poor victim and dad the bad guy.

My SO came back from his trip and is told by his wife and their landlord that they were to be evicted.  He acted quickly to rent a 2 bedroom apartment for him and his daughters.  He assumed that his wife would temporarily stay with her sister and her family.  Wrong, the eviction story was a lie that the ex cooked up with the landlord who we suspect was convinced of her victimdom and was made promises that her family would pay the rent (she was to live there a year longer).

So the alienation that had already begun was now to continue and escalate because of mom’s primary physical custody of the kids.  :)14 who before the separation was particularly close to her dad then became enmeshed with her mother, her confidant, the care taker of her younger sister (parentifcation was underway), and she was angry at her dad.  :)9 began to show some regression she was behaving as a younger child and was trying sometimes to be peacemaker demonstrating a desire to see both parents. I think mom focused her energy primarily on D14 because she was older and she was closer to dad so anything she did on mom’s behalf would be all the more painful.  I think D9 was in some ways viewed as the baby and was somewhat brushed aside.

Visitation and phone calls were inconsistent.  My SO was beginning to get the “she doesn’t want to come over” messages from mom, it’s up to D9 to decide, D14 doesn’t want to talk to you…putting the kids in the middle forcing them to choose a parent.  :)ad was hurt by the rejection and was at a loss as to what to do.  To his credit he didn’t give up he kept trying to see his kids.  The ex didn’t drive so taking his kids somewhere was a good toe hold that he had in terms of seeing his daughters.  If they needed to shop for school supplies mom couldn’t take them, dad did.  If they had a medical/dental appointment mom couldn’t take them, dad did.  If they needed a ride to a birthday party mom couldn’t take them, dad did. He took up every offer to see his kids, he called them every evening to say good night to them (sometimes they answered sometimes not), He showed up for every one of his visitation days (sometimes they both would visit, sometimes only one, sometimes neither).  He demonstrated his desire to see them and he was consistent in that message.

[Panda39]

Continued... .

Around this time uBPDmom pulled D(now)15 out of her first year of High School to do “on-line” school at home.  She did this against the wishes of my SO and against the advice of the school counselor and school principal.  This was the most personally painful thing my SO had to deal with during his separation and divorce.  Mom had now isolated D15 completely.  :)15 didn’t do anything for a year.  Mom had a million excuses for why D15 wasn’t able to do her school work and dad had an answer for all of them that was ignored.  Mom, “The laptop from the school had not arrived”.  :)ad, “she can come over and use mine”. Nope.  Mom, “the laptop has arrived but the power cord isn’t working”.  :)ad, “I’ll go get another one at Best Buy”. Nope.  Mom, “the internet isn’t working”. Dad, “she can come over to my house I have working internet” Nope. Mom’s sister “she can come to my house to do her school work”. Nope.  My SO tried contacting the on-line school to try and get some support from them that failed, he was so desperate that he hoped his daughter would be charged with truancy so it would go before a judge.  In the end D15 blew her first year of High School completely.  Yes that really is a 0.0 GPA her first year of High School.  The sad thing is that the person who was most damaged by this was D15.

Now I don’t want to give the impression that my SO didn’t ever see or talk to his kids he did.  He most often saw and heard from them when they were on a mission for mom.  I can’t begin to tell you how many times mom used those kids to call their dad and blow FOG (Fear Obligation & Guilt) on her behalf.  Right before the first Christmas of the separation, uBPD mom had D15 call him probably 20 times in a row to remind him he had to deposit some funds in her mom’s account that day (he was, in fact, at the bank doing just when the onslaught of calls began, so mom was using D15 as a de facto bill collector my son was so sick of the phone ringing he shoved it under a pillow).

He recognized that she was placing them in the middle and would tell them to have mom email him (He was using email as a tool to document as is often recommended here).  Back then though he was still very much engaged in the old patterns of their marriage with his wife, the same actions created the same reactions in each of them.

We began to suspect the kids were snooping around in dad’s house when mom went off on the discovery of a Playboy in dad’s house (in a file cabinet in his closet) that I will confess having bought for him as joke. My bad!  The kids were going through his things and reporting back to mom they even reported what was in his refrigerator.  He was lectured on how much money he was spending for getting the “expensive” sorbet.  The spying went beyond that when mom made a comment about him leaving his undies at my house.  This meant the kids were checking his text messages too.  :)15 tried to steal her dad’s laptop too.  This backfired on mom though.  My SO went over to mom’s house to retrieve his laptop and she refused to return it.  He then called the police to help get it back.  Well they ran both my SO and the stbx through their system and guess who had a warrant out for her. (old traffic/suspended license that she didn’t bother to deal with). She was taken to jail and dad got his laptop back. Unfortunately this all happened in front of D15.

Then we had the “phone incident”.  The girls were over visiting their dad and he was on the phone talking with mom and got angry talking with her, lost his temper and threw the phone into the couch.  This escalated to “throwing the phone and shattering into a million pieces”, then to “not letting the kids call their mom” (mind you they both had cell phones and dad had another extension in the bedroom), then to “keeping them from leaving his house” and finally, mom tried to require supervised visitation. Since the supervision had to be paid for, and he could barely afford a roof over his head at that point, it would have meant never seeing his kids. Dad showed up for his court date and surprise guess who wasn’t there?  Mom was “too ill” to attend.  My SO was questioned and answered honestly the motion was denied.  Where was mom that afternoon ill at home?  No out getting a manicure with D10.

Hand in hand with the alienation was neglect. D15’s school situation was neglect by removing her from school as well as part of the alienation campaign by isolating her from her dad.  :)(now)10 had a toothache, mom would argue over what dentist D10 should see, make appointments she couldn’t keep (remember she didn’t drive and to get anywhere she relied on others for transportation), schedule and reschedule this literally went on for 3 months.  :)10 in pain for 3 months.  Mom finally decided on the most expensive dentist she could find and got D10 in.  Then proceeded to write a $1,400 bad check to the dentist on a joint checking account shared with D15!  

They were living in filth on a level that we suspected but only found out the disgusting truth about much later.  

Somewhere shortly before the divorce was final we discovered BPD, that there was a name for what was going on with mom.

What helped my SO during all of this?

1)   His attorneys admonishment to take the high road -don’t discuss things with the kids, don’t put the kids in the middle, don’t engage with stbx, use email etc.  (other than the phone incident he was successful at this)  :)on’t give the opposition any ammunition. (This is where I was able to really to help by listening, letting him vent, supporting him and helping him strategize.)

2)   His belief in his rights as a dad and his daughter’s need for him.

3)   Eventually, the court awarded my SO more time with his kids…M-F and 1 weekend, mom had

Wednesday eves and 3 weekends. This gave him more time with his kids to work on his relationship with them and gave them some separation from their mother.

4)   Receiving Therapy  (additional support and coping strategies)

5)   When the divorce was finally final the judge divided responsibilities in a way that worked for Parallel Parenting (we didn’t even know what this was at the time) My SO was responsible for the girls’ Education, Medical and Dental and the ex was responsible for Therapy, Vision and Gynecological.

6)   Family support.  His mom was instrumental both for financial support and emotional support.

7)   The discovery of BPD and later the BPD family (We learned what was going on, that mom had patterns of behavior, what SO could do to protect himself, boundaries, better ways of communicating, that we can’t change someone else’s behaviors, radical acceptance, mindfulness…etc)

But what really helped him came from an unlikely source…his uBPDxw. Her instability, bad decisions and more recently her actions towards her children combined with dad’s stability, commitment and consistency have driven the kids to their dad and away from mom.

The girls have watched their mother be evicted 3 times while at the same time promising to purchase million dollar homes.  Their mother has couch surfed on 2 separate occasions 6 month’s each, for the last year or more she has been living in hotels (got no idea how she pays for this).  We don’t have any idea if she has a job.  Meanwhile dad 5 years later has the same job and apartment – Stability.  

There was a line in Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship by: Christine Ann Lawson that really resonated with me when I read it, something about the BPDmother being both neglectful and indulgent and that was exactly what went on with my SO’s daughters and their mother.  She’d buy them costume jewelry when they needed a winter coat, or took them out to lunch when there were school fees to be paid.  Renting the spacious townhouse when she had no way to afford it.  The kids began to see who was the “parent” and who wasn’t.  Who kept a roof over their head, who kept them fed, who made sure they went to school, who got them to the doctor and dentist.

Because of her mother’s chaos, instability, lies, evictions etc. my SO’s younger daughter couldn’t handle it anymore, made suicidal comments that landed her 2 weeks in a mental health hospital.  This was one of the worst/best things to happen to her.  You don’t want to ever see your child in this much pain but this crisis got that girl the help she needed.  :)uring that 2 weeks low contact with her parents was put in place (a tool we often use on this site), she learned coping tools, she was learning to open up about her feelings, she was put on medication that helped her anxiety, she was referred to a Psychiatrist, and a new therapist.  (Here previous therapist who was ineffective and too involved with the ex) Younger daughter was diagnosed with PTSD (also common among others on this site)

After a long struggle to get caught up to her classmates D(now)18 managed to do all the work to (barely) graduate with her class. Her GPA was brought down severely – she graduated with a 1.7 – but she did graduate on time. There was a cost to the missed freshman year.   She was accepted to a private liberal arts college out east along with some local colleges.  Not surprisingly she wanted to head out east and escape her family, be on her own, see another part of the country and go to what she felt was the better school. $45,000 a year for an out of state student.  :)ad talked to her about the financial realities and mom made promises.  The “family trust” would pay for her education.  :)18 was suspicious and asked for proof of this never before heard of trust and mom showed her things that D18 believed…wanted to believe…wanted so badly to go to this school.  So that Fall D18 went off to College on her mother’s promises and all the strings that came attached.  

Mom took both girls out east to see D18 off to school.  She made lots of promises to D(now)14 about all the things they would do there.  But the reality was mom had no money so they stayed at the hotel for a few days.  

Dad and I were having lunch at home on the day D14 was arrive back home mom called and advised him that they missed their plane due to traffic.  Mind you this was a small New England city on a Sunday…I’m sure it was absolute gridlock!  :)ad just told her to send him her updated itinerary.

In that moment I knew that we had finally arrived at a place where we could take her antics in stride.

By this time we knew the uBPDxw’s behavioral patterns – she has become mostly predictable, we accepted that we could not control what went on when the kids were with her, we were really good at responding to only what was necessary – my SO did not engage his ex, my SO’s relationship with his kids had been gradually improving and I was beginning to slowly enter into the mix more frequently with his kids.  The tide was turning for dad and his daughters.

Thanksgiving last year was a mess story here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=237811.msg12533387#msg12533387

Things between the girls and their mother completely blew up beginning the end of last year.  

It began with D18’s return home for Christmas break last December and being told by her school not to return because her first semester had not been paid for.  So much for the “family trust”.  :)18’s things were still out east in her dorm room, she now was out of school, so much for being a Dean’s list student because school hadn’t been paid for she couldn’t get her transcripts and the icing on the cake was that she (because she was the student not her mother) was now in debt for $15,000 (student loans, grants and scholarships paid for some of the semester) this was the end of D18’s contact with her mother.  :)ad partially to distract her from the pain of what her mother did and because D18 needed to be in school he put her to work on getting set up at her local state college.  She still had financial aid for the semester and was able to afford the local school.  

She goes to school full-time, is an intern at a local museum, and is working towards an internship abroad this summer.  She’s doing it on her own.  She is very low contact with her mother at this time mostly occasional emails.

D14 was having a lot of conflict with her mother and began spending more and more time at dad’s instead of visiting with her mom.  Her mom was pumping D14 for information on D18 and all she wanted to do when with D14 was talk about her sister.  :)14 kept trying to get her mother to “see” her but it was all about D18 so D14 began to distance herself too.  UBPDmom trying to keep D14 in contact with her kept dangling things she wanted in front of her.  Summer Camp being the biggest.  Mom had somehow managed to send D14 out of state to camp ($5,000) the year before and D14 had a great time and made lots of new friends.  She really wanted to return.  :)14 was suspicious about where the money was coming from.  She asked over and over for at least 6 months if she was going.  Her mother told her over and over that she was.  Up until the last minute my SO and I didn’t think it was going to happen.  :)14 went over to mom’s hotel spent the night and left on the plane headed for camp.  At least that’s what we thought.

Summer Camp Thread https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=278908.msg12650691#msg12650691

D14 has seen her mom in person maybe 4 times since last summer.  She is in low contact via text.

While all this was going on mom has 2 legal cases against her both started last December and still on-going.  One a civil case regarding money and the other a felony fraud/bad check case.  Almost a year later and still no decisions…gotta love the incredibly slow wheels of justice.

So back to the question how did we handle it…the best we could.

Show the kids you love them no matter what (even if they make decisions you don’t like)

Be there to pick up the pieces

Learn to stop feeding the drama

Understand that you can only control you, can’t control anyone else… the ex or the kids

Understand the kids love the other parent even if you don’t and the other parent treats them horribly

Keep the best interests of the kids before your own anger and frustration with the ex (don’t have a   ”phone incident”)

Don’t forget what the kids are going through it isn’t all about you.

Learn to stand up for yourself

Learn to set boundaries

Learn to use email/document

Learn when to let things go

Take advantage of your support system and therapy

Take time out for yourself

Allow yourself to make mistakes

Accept your failures pick yourself up and dust yourself off

And again…show the kids you love them no matter what   

I hope I've answered the question and I hope my story helps someone else.

Panda39

[sanemom]

Panda,

Thank you for your story. I do have a few questions.

Was there a time that your DH had no contact with the girls?

Did the girls ever say anything about all of the snooping they used to do?

It sounds like the BPD mom in our life is similar to yours... .neglectful and indulgent... .ours just manages to get people to feel sorry for her more and believe her crazy lies better.

She completely rewrites history for the kids, and they just believe her even though for years her story was completely different.  I don't get it... .

[Boss302]

Panda,

Thank you for your story. I do have a few questions.

Was there a time that your DH had no contact with the girls?

Did the girls ever say anything about all of the snooping they used to do?

It sounds like the BPD mom in our life is similar to yours... .neglectful and indulgent... .ours just manages to get people to feel sorry for her more and believe her crazy lies better.

She completely rewrites history for the kids, and they just believe her even though for years her story was completely different.  I don't get it... .

Hi, I'm the dad.  

Yes, there was a time when I had no contact with the kids. It was after the "phone throwing incident." Their mom was basically just not putting them on the phone with me. It went on for a week or so. I called every day anyway.

Yes, the girls did finally fess up to the snooping. They both apologized and I didn't really ask them to do anything else. I considered the matter closed. Now that they know what mom's game is, they understand how wrong it was.

And I didn't get why the kids still wanted anything to do with their mom too. There's a whole range of stuff that my SO didn't list in that post... .things like mom stealing their birthday and holiday money from their relatives, mom using D18's graduation money to put herself up in a hotel while she was dropping the kid off at the school in Vermont, and on and on.

Eventually they do learn that all this is completely unacceptable, and then they begin to assert their boundaries. But it's awful until then, and it took years (and them being hurt - A LOT) for them to get to that point.

Unfortunately, one thing I've learned through this experience - and therapy - is that kids who are abused or neglected by their parents will still defend them to the end, even if they've been things a thousand times more horrible than my kids were subjected to. We're all hard wired to love our parents, and especially our mothers. You can't do anything about that except be the example of the "anti-mom." Be the mom you should be, and the mom she isn't, even if the kids aren't the kids they should be. That's what Panda did, God love her - she didn't come in and try to be their mother, but she did conduct herself as an example, or as an alternative. I.E., this is what a normal woman looks and acts like (well, she's not THAT normal... .). Eventually the kids began to see her very differently - as much as Panda didn't like them at first (and she had a thousand excellent reasons not to), they didn't like her much either (and they had their reasons too). We purposely kept her and my kids apart for a LONG time - we've been together five years and things have just now gotten to the point where she can come down and spend the night for visits, etc.

I know hard that is. In my case, that was probably easier, since the contrast between life with me and with their mom was so very different - she's almost comically unstable.

And also understand that it's OK to be pissed off at these kids. You have a right to be. We don't like being upset at our kids, but sometimes they do something that warrants it. But handle that in therapy or with your husband.

Hope that helps... .it can get better.

[sanemom]

Yes, the girls did finally fess up to the snooping. They both apologized and I didn't really ask them to do anything else. I considered the matter closed. Now that they know what mom's game is, they understand how wrong it was.



I really wonder if the boys (they are 15 and 17!) will ever get what mom's game is... .it just seems like she has gotten them involved in plots with her before (not as bad as this one--getting them to provide "evidence" that DH and I use prescription drugs), and they have not gotten it yet--they just keep doing it.  I can only hope that when they see that our drug test is negative and that all that snooping in our room inspired by BPD mom only served to cause us pain and cost us a ton of money (I know--they won't think about the money), that maybe eventually they WILL understand their BPD mom's game.  But I just don't see them being anywhere close to that in the past... .they just haven't been.  They manage to blame DH for all of BPD mom's plots.

Maybe this incident is significantly bad enough, they will start to get it, but I won't expect that.

[bravhart1]

Do your boys know their mom is BPD?

[sanemom]

I am sure they know something is off, but they don't know what.  She doesn't rage at them... .she saves all of that for her emails to DH.  Mom is a waif and a pro at playing the victim and distorting reality.  For instance, right now they believe BPD mom's story that DH has been abusing pills and is refusing to do the 90 day rehab.  BPD mom is violating the court order bs not bringing the boys to counseling weekly so the counselor hasn't been able to share the truth with them.

She recreates her history with DH so they will be mad at him, and they just believe her even though it's a completely different history than they used to tell. 

So when they do find out the truth of this mess, it will be interesting... .

[Panda39]

She recreates her history with DH so they will be mad at him, and they just believe her even though it's a completely different history than they used to tell. 

I think this is that feelings=facts thing.  Because mom really believes things she is very convincing to the kids and others.

Boss302's daughters both saw him throw the phone in the couch there mother wasn't even there but they allowed the story to escalate to the point it went to court.  They believed what their mom who wasn't their was telling them in spite of what they saw with their own eyes.

They also saw their mom as a victim what they didn't understand or did not know or did not want to know was that she made the choices that had negative consequences.

I also think the kids subconsciously knew that dad was there for them no matter what with no strings attached... .in a sense they didn't have to worry about dad loving them and being there for them and on the other hand to have mom's love they had to fall in line.

Both girls know that we suspect that mom has BPD and both have done some reading about BPD and they think it fits too. My copy of  Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship by: Christine Ann Lawson was borrowed by D15 last year and I haven't seen it since.  D19 is a lurker here too.

Changing the hearts and minds of your step-kids my SO's kids takes time it's a process... .often a lousy, miserable, heartbreaking, frustrating process. 

Hang in there,

Panda39

[whirlpoollife]

Panda , what an amazing post of the journey through this PA. The last part on what we can do is to be read over many times. You are an amazing SO , and stepmom even though you said that wasn't your intentions.

Three and a half years out my teens still spy.   I know that feeling of being watched and reported on.  As I have said before I keep a lock on my bedroom door because that's where the home office desk is and my journels / documentation . My job hours are so as to not let the kids be home alone . They are plenty old enough to be but they would tell xh and he'd be in my house.  They do not have a key to my house. Xh tried to have it a court order for me to give the kids a key to my house.  No paranoia from anyone else , it's just a way of life for me from xh.

They idealize him. They protect him. They parentize  him. It's hard to live that . As I read about the female spouses who are waifs, that is my xh.  He recently took S out of school to take him to an eye doctor appt. I had ask D , because S wasn't home at time and I had received the  automated call from the school why S was late. She said dad needed someone to give him a ride because he was blind from the eye tests he had to take.  

When he lived with me his eyesight was 20/30 age related needing glasses. Nothing major.

His large family lives in town so why couldn't any of them give him his ride. He lives by a bus stop.  Or why  couldn't that appt been late after school hours.

But three and a half years of my filing for divorce , r/s with kids has improved. I was very close with kids until divorce when they turned instantly on me. All from xh, the poor victim. They told the GAL who told me that they told him that they want nothing to do with me.  That's a tough one to forget.

Me being a passive person it was , and still is, hard to keep pushing forward to fight the PA.

I had to speak out a few times because all they were hearing was xh 's distorted stories.

Your last paragraph ... .show them you love them no matter what ... .

is for me to read many times.  Some I have done , some I need to do. You put it in writing for us . Thank you

[Panda39]

Three and a half years out my teens still spy.   I know that feeling of being watched and reported on.  As I have said before I keep a lock on my bedroom door because that's where the home office desk is and my journels / documentation . My job hours are so as to not let the kids be home alone . They are plenty old enough to be but they would tell xh and he'd be in my house.  They do not have a key to my house. Xh tried to have it a court order for me to give the kids a key to my house.  No paranoia from anyone else , it's just a way of life for me from xh.

This is a great boundary that does two things the first and more obvious is to protect your privacy.

The second thing this does is take the kids out of the middle... .from having to choose you or their father. They don't have to go through your things because of physical boundary and they can report back to dad that they "can't" get into your room which is the truth and doesn't look like the kids are choosing you over him... .doesn't feel to him like the kids are abandoning him.

Because after all this is what it's all about the parent with BPD's absolute terror that they will loose the love of their children... .they be come incredibly possessive.  In ForeverDad's case when the CE said that "the mother couldn't share her children" got in a nutshell. 

To me it is the BPD parents fear and apparent victimdom that start the alienation process... .the kids are trying to protect and prove/convince that parent they love them that leads into this mess.

[sanemom]

Well, we are there now, too... locks on our bedroom doors.  When we realized what the boys had done, we changed the locks on our house doors and added the ones to our bedroom door.  We even changed the day the cleaning lady came (bc there is a key left out for her).  We now have security cameras in the house, too.  It is sad to have to live that way in your own home.

I have no idea what the judge will do.  The two therapists involved are horrified about how she has completely altered their reality so quickly and got them to turn on their dad so fast.  Just two weeks before the incident they went to their counselor (who they have been seeing for years) and told her that everything was great with dad, and they were feeling closer than ever.  Then BAM... .they are going through our things, lying to CPS, and framing us.  BPD mom brought them once to counseling (she is supposed to be bringing them weekly now that they have no contact with their dad based on the lies), and she had the boys insist on having her there in the session.  Just ick.  The therapist said that the entire time she was there, she was making it clear to the boys that they could not have positive thoughts about their dad. 

All that to say we have PLENTY of proof, but because they are older, it is hard to know if the judge will even care about our proof.

We did try to address her having a disorder before (leaving that Lawson book around, mainly), BUT all of a sudden, the kids started coming back telling us that DH has narcissistic personality disorder.  So she probably found out and quickly turned it on DH... .and they go for that all of the time.  Any headway we make, she takes away and then some.

Like I said before, I hope this incident is big enough that they WILL start realizing the dynamic here... .my DD17 has always been amazed by how they turn on their dad and plot against him.  I never had to point that out to her; she could tell.

[bravhart1]

Now that my SD is reading we have to be much more aware of what paperwork gets left lying around. We had a report from her Dr that she saw, nothing earth shattering but it did shine a light on something mom said came from us, which came from Dr, which mom said was a wrong belief, so now she knows the info she got from mom was exactly opposite of what her medical Dr told mom, that mom twisted into something that was supposedly told to SD, but we weren't there. 

I think I would call therapist in your case and have her send a email copying everyone on it saying she feels it's important that while this is going on that the kids continue their therapy without fail, and that she get to meet with them alone. If mom objects let her do it in writing which can be used in court. The kids therapist must know this is all contrived by mom and why, I would absolutely pull her into service by having her report to the court any blocking mom is doing to prevent boys from the truth.

[Boss302]

Well, we are there now, too... locks on our bedroom doors.  When we realized what the boys had done, we changed the locks on our house doors and added the ones to our bedroom door.  We even changed the day the cleaning lady came (bc there is a key left out for her).  We now have security cameras in the house, too.  It is sad to have to live that way in your own home.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with telling them just how it makes you and your husband feel to have to live like this because of their actions. And bottling the feeling up is poisonous to you emotionally. It's like you aren't allowed to speak in your own house.

That's one big mistake I made during the divorce - of course, the lawyers and everyone else tell you that you cannot discuss it with the kids, but I think that's more a case of not putting the kids in the middle by trashing the other party. I never shared how awful I felt about the things that happened, some of which happened at their hands. I should have said, "you know, when things like this happen, do you have any idea how bad that makes me feel?" You're calling them on THEIR behavior, not their mom's, which I think is entirely appropriate. They made a choice they knew damn well was wrong, and you have every right to tell them how badly that choice hurt you. It's their behavior that needs to change, not yours. I think that if they're confronted with that, not with anger, but with your feelings, they might think twice about doing it again.

And I also don't think your stepkids' behavior is happening in a vacuum. I'm going to guess they aren't sociopathic and aren't doing this because they enjoy it. I'm guessing they're doing this because they're mad and feeling powerless about their family being split up, and BPDs, being the manipulative creatures they are, know exactly how to exploit that. In my case, it was probably something like "all this bad stuff we're going through is your dad's fault, and besides, he's now taken up with another woman and doesn't care about you." My kids aren't mean, and aren't evil, but when you're a kid and you're hurting, and your mom says something like that, then what they did makes sense, even if it wasn't right for them to do it. And teenagers are ALWAYS pushing boundaries even under the best of circumstances. None of this makes it easier for you to handle, but there it is.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has any thoughts on this, but I think it's totally appropriate to call kids on what they do at the behest of the BPD ex. It can be done without trashing her (believe me, if she's anything like most BPD moms, they do a splendid job trashing themselves), but if it's not done, then I don't think you're doing right by your kids. I didn't and it caused years of us all walking on eggshells around each other.

I feel like you're focusing on getting them to realize how poisonous their mom is, and that's understandable - you want them protected - but in the end, it's about creating a livable home for your family.

I'd also add that when your kids figure out that mom's manipulating them - which they will surely do - that will put a stop to a lot of the nonsense. The one good thing about your case is that the kids aren't little - young kids don't know when they're being played, but teenagers are mature and smart enough to figure it out. And when they do figure it out, they're going to be ROYALLY pissed at their mom. No one likes finding out they've been played. And that, my friend, will present you with a whole new set of challenges... .namely, what to do with kids who are caught between hating their mom for what she did, and not wanting to see her, but still loving her and feeling guilty for not being with her. That's where my kids are at. it never ends, right?

[Boss302]

I am sure they know something is off, but they don't know what.  She doesn't rage at them... .she saves all of that for her emails to DH. 

Please tell me he doesn't respond to these.

[Boss302]

BPD mom brought them once to counseling (she is supposed to be bringing them weekly now that they have no contact with their dad based on the lies), and she had the boys insist on having her there in the session.  Just ick.  The therapist said that the entire time she was there, she was making it clear to the boys that they could not have positive thoughts about their dad.  

Here's a harsh truth: she doesn't want the kids to get better, because once those kids get better, they'll figure out what she's up to, and she'll be unable to manipulate them anymore. Thus, she will interfere with their therapy too... .not to hurt them per se, but because the kids, like everything else in her universe, exist for her benefit. The kids are just collateral damage.

My ex did the same thing. For some inexplicable reason, the judge gave her responsibility and decision making over therapy for the kids (nice job, Your Honor... .that's like putting James Holmes in charge of theater security... .but I digress).

She chose a therapist for both kids up front who was definitely on Team BPDx. She manipulated the therapist into thinking I was an abusive father who was off his meds (sound familiar?). She often sat in on therapy for the kids too. This therapy worked so well that eventually, D15 began making suicidal threats and got hospitalized for a couple of weeks. Effective therapy, no? Well, there's a reason it failed - it was always about BPDx's ability to BS the therapist, not D15's mental health. The therapist never figured out what was really wrong with D15.

(Not coincidentally, D15 was the one who mom used to do the bulk of the spying and lied for mom more times than I can count... .any connection between that and the suicidal thoughts? Naww, couldn't be... .)

But regardless, when this therapist left the practice that was five minutes away from where we all lived, and moved to a practice that was an hour drive away (and BPDx has no car), mom kept D15 with this therapist, even though she had no way of getting the kid there, and the cost would be far higher than before. In fact, the therapist told me that BPDx said she would "follow her to the ends of the earth," even though she was obviously not doing the job for D15 (how could she when the whole thing was about the kid's mom?). Why would that make a lick of sense? Answer: because it had nothing to do with D15 - it was always about BPDx's relationship with the therapist.

That blew up, and then D15 was placed with another therapist that was local. Sure enough, BPDx tried to camp out during her therapy sessions again, and started complaining about me, at which point the therapist promptly kicked her out of the room, told her to find her own therapist if she wanted to talk about me, and eventually told her that she needed to be in DBT. The therapist made it plain that this was about D15, not mom. Soon thereafter mom stopped being involved in D15's therapy, and D15 is getting a lot better. Amazing, no?  

Imagine how sick someone has to be to do this.

I'm hoping your kids' therapist has put a swift end to mom's nonsense, and if not, you need to find new therapists... .now. Take the kids yourself if you need to (I was under court order not to do so until it stopped being fun for BPDx, and she gave up on it).

But this is the mindset of the person you're dealing with. Any wonder she had the kids rooting around your house for evidence for you? Your stepkids are the victim of a MASTER manipulator. Keep that in mind.

[sanemom]

No, DH does not respond to the rageful emails.  And clearly, BPD mom does not want them to get better or to know the truth.  I am sure that is why she has blocked therapy the past few weeks.

You know, it is funny--with DSD we did confront her on how hurtful it was when she got rid of the special gifts that DH gave her (for example) rather than blaming her mom.  But you know, she took full responsibility for the behavior, felt guilty, and that was as far as it went.  She gladly took the fall for everything her mom did so we stopped confronting her.

I don't know if the boys would do the same--I didn't think they were nearly as enmeshed, but I have no idea what to think now.  They have suddenly forgotten how to text or communicate with DH for the past few weeks.

At some point we are going to have to let them know that their behavior caused this, but it seems like a direct discussion would not work well until they have absorbed some of the other truths about what has been going on first.

[bravhart1]

If I may chime in with my two cents?

You and your DH were not guilty of what you were accused of. Period.

Stop acting like you are, contact the therapist and let her know you want contact back asap.

The longer this goes on the harder it will be to rejoin. You got a beat down by BPDm. It hurt, it was unfair, you got tested, went to court, you aren't in the wrong. Take back your control.

Those boys need you and DH, they have a manipulative unstable mom on the other end. I know they don't deserve you  but they got you anyway.

My DH and I are always in this boat. We finally just stopped taking the bait. We finally stopped acting like anyone would believe her outrageous lies, and low and behold... .we felt better and it turns out no one did believe her lies. Even when it gets a little traction, we scoff and say move on, she got issues.

And at the age those boys are, I'd tell the therapist, it's time to man up and explain BPD, they need to know who and what they are dealing with. But at this point it needs to come from an outside source.

I know I may not be politically correct with my opinion, but seriously, these people get away with murder, what's a little truth hurt?

[sanemom]

'You and your DH were not guilty of what you were accused of. Period.

Stop acting like you are, contact the therapist and let her know you want contact back asap.

The longer this goes on the harder it will be to rejoin. You got a beat down by BPDm. It hurt, it was unfair, you got tested, went to court, you aren't in the wrong. Take back your control.'

The therapist is well aware we want contact back and has been trying, but BPD mom has refused to bring the kids in (except once) despite the 4 week court order to do so weekly.  The judge let the kids stay sequestered with mom with no contact with dad until the end of this week where he will hear the findings of the CPS investigation.  He said that dad was allowed to contact the kids via text, but they told the therapist that they wanted space from him; she honored that thinking she would see the boys the following week, but BPD mom then stopped bringing them.

The judge wants to hear from the kids after court this Friday after they have had NO contact with their dad for a month and have been completely brainwashed.  Their therapist and DH's therapist have been working together and have been horrified by how drastically different the boys are now.  The boys' therapist feels like she has seen BPD mom at work (since she was in the session with the boys last time) and is completely prepared to testify to that.

Not sure if the judge will listen or not... .he likes to say that teens get to decide, but these kids are robots now, and the judge created this by allowing BPD mom to have them for a month with no visitation with DH bc of her false CPS report.

[bravhart1]

Having your therapist testify is HUGE! That's great news.

I hope you and DH get your day in court. I truly hope the judge opens his ears and gets what the therapist is saying. His stance that teens should get to decide their own fate, flies in the face of our national system that 15 and 17 year olds are still considered minors and not of age to sign legal contracts or vote for that matter, but he's leaving them up to moms influence?

Is he also willing to sign off on DH obligation to support them while they vaca at moms?

I hope it is crystal clear that you have had no contact or ability to set this series of misinformation and manipulation straight for over a month. Maybe they need a month away from mom to decompress?

I get very angry when I read about BPD's using the children to advance their agendas of hate and control. Sorry if I'm too vehement but I really know how this feels and it's so incredibly hard. As I know you understand, we are both in this trick bag with these folks.

I'm stressed, broke, humiliated and sad. I get told I'm the healthy one? What's wrong with this picture?

[Boss302]

Is he also willing to sign off on DH obligation to support them while they vaca at moms?

I'm going to take a wild stab and say a great deal of this is about the Benjamins... .as in, mom gets more of dad's money.

I'm stressed, broke, humiliated and sad. I get told I'm the healthy one?

I'd rather be stressed, broke, humiliated and sad than be back with BPDx.

I'd rather take a bullet than be back with BPDx.

I'd rather be gang raped by a gaggle of silverback apes than be back with my BPDx (tip of the hat to Ari Gold for that one... .)

No matter what garbage she pulls, I have my life back, and though it's not perfect, it's MINE. She can't have it.

[Stolen]

Oh boy do I identify with so much of this.  One point I totally agree with is that they don't want the kids to get "better". My xW always had a mantra regarding her FOO - "never tell a crazy person they are crazy", and that translated into never seeing a therapist, never speaking the truth.  Just retreat back behind the curtains of crazyland where you can dysregulate to your heart's content. 

So up is down, left is right - there appears to be no logic in any of this.  A parent doesn't want their children to get help? To get better?   No wonder why PA is so common among the disordered - for them, PA is not the problem, it is the solution... .

[MovingOn2015]

Panda, Boss and Sanemom, thank you so much for sharing your stories.  They mirror mine so much that it is frightening.   I too have been lied about, alienated, stolen from, spied on and blamed for things that are grossly exaggerated or never even happened at all.  My children have also been turned against me.  I'm also involved in a CPS case accusing me of child abuse for raising my voice and sending my son to his room for disrespectful behavior when he was at my house several months back.  The report his mom submitted to the CPS case worker made it sound like he was tortured.

Your stories give me hope, especially Panda's and Boss' because you are further down the road of recovery from this insanity than I am. When you're in the middle of it as I am, your stories have given me perspective that the kids do eventually open their eyes.  I just need to take a longer view, which is tough when I'm in the thick of it as I am.

[Panda39]

Panda, Boss and Sanemom, thank you so much for sharing your stories.  They mirror mine so much that it is frightening.   I too have been lied about, alienated, stolen from, spied on and blamed for things that are grossly exaggerated or never even happened at all.  My children have also been turned against me.  I'm also involved in a CPS case accusing me of child abuse for raising my voice and sending my son to his room for disrespectful behavior when he was at my house several months back.  The report his mom submitted to the CPS case worker made it sound like he was tortured.

Hi MovingOn2015 

I'm so sorry to hear all of this is going on with you too  :'(  How are you doing?  Are you seeing your child(ren) at all? How old are your kids? Do you have a good support system? Therapist?

Your stories give me hope, especially Panda's and Boss' because you are further down the road of recovery from this insanity than I am. When you're in the middle of it as I am, your stories have given me perspective that the kids do eventually open their eyes.  I just need to take a longer view, which is tough when I'm in the thick of it as I am.

I'm so happy our story helped.  That is the goal    You are absolutely right you are in the lousy, hurtful, anger filled, distrustful, sucky part of the whole thing but things are fluid and will move and change over time.  Just keep hanging on your kids need you even if their rejection makes it feel differently. My other piece of advice is keep the anger in check (even when you have every right to be angry) but I know you know that.

Below is a link to the outcome of Sanemom's court date Friday (If you didn't see it already).  It was a mixed bag that I think her husband sees as a loss but that I see as a step along the journey not an ending.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=285572.0

I would like to hear more of your story when you have time.

Hang in there 

Panda39

[Boss302]

Panda, Boss and Sanemom, thank you so much for sharing your stories.  They mirror mine so much that it is frightening.   I too have been lied about, alienated, stolen from, spied on and blamed for things that are grossly exaggerated or never even happened at all.  My children have also been turned against me.  I'm also involved in a CPS case accusing me of child abuse for raising my voice and sending my son to his room for disrespectful behavior when he was at my house several months back.  The report his mom submitted to the CPS case worker made it sound like he was tortured.

Your stories give me hope, especially Panda's and Boss' because you are further down the road of recovery from this insanity than I am. When you're in the middle of it as I am, your stories have given me perspective that the kids do eventually open their eyes.  I just need to take a longer view, which is tough when I'm in the thick of it as I am.

How old are your kids?

[MovingOn2015]

My kids are 15, 13, and 11.  My D15 is a really smart young lady, but jeckly and Hyde in her relationship with me.  I never know what I'm going to get from her.  She's essentially been an agent for her mom in reporting back every detail of our interactions together to her mother while at the same time never telling me anything that happens over there.   My S13 has ADHD and has a hard time fitting in with kids at school or in his other activities.    He's usually very argumentative and doesn't show much respect to authority figures.   Once he complains to my BPDex about someone, that person is almost always instantly invalidated and my S13 is usually told why he was justified for his inappropriate interaction.  It's bizarre.  My S11 typically goes with the flow.  He just wants to be loved by both of his parents. 

With respect to the CPS issue, it centers on S13.  He clearly has anger issues and he has assaulted me on several occasions.   On the specific day that the incident that brought the CPS investigation he was unexpectedly dropped off at my house along with D15.   S10 was already with me for the weekend.  S13 arrived and it was apparent he was not on his ADHD medication.   His behavior was completely off the wall.  Both he and my D15 came to the house acting completely defiant.   I told them that they had to clean up the mess they made within the first 15 minutes of being there and they refused.  D15 refused to do anything and S13 just ignored me and was playing video games on his phone.  So I attempted to take his phone from him.   This lead to him acting like a 7 year old when he began hiding under a blanket.   His leg came up through the blanket and he kicked me.  I'm still not sure if he realized what he did.  I pulled the blanket off of him and raised my voice. 

[MovingOn2015]

(Continued) S13 ran away from me and I told him to go to his room.  Instead, he laid down in the middle of the kitchen floor and had his legs up in a way where it was apparent he was going to kick me if I approached him.  In hindsight I should have just left him there.   But I took him by his arms and dragged him about 12 feet across the floor to his room.   It's a smooth floor that I had just waxed with no rugs. When we got to his room, I closed the door and proceeded to tell him that his behavior was unbecoming of a boy of his age and told him that this type of behavior is why he got suspended from school, kicked out of an activity he was involved in, and why he sits the bench on his sports teams.    He was told to stay in his room.  I also asked him if he had taken his medication before he came over and he said he couldn't remember. 

I texted his mother and asked about the medication.  She, of course, said yes he had taken it, but I know his behavior well enough to know that he hadn't. She also went off on her typical rant about how I must somehow be doing something wrong and he must be justified in his behavior. S13 still had his phone and he proceeded to leave his room and run outside to call his mother.  D15 and now S11 began to egg him on.   Mind you S11 was with me all weekend and we had an awesome time together.   Within what was then 45 minutes to an hour of D15 and S13 arriving, I had full blown defiance from all 3.

At this point I told D15 to contact her mother to pick them all up.  It was clear to me that I was being set up.  BPDex refused.  She was on a date, which is why D15 and S13 were unexpectedly dropped off in the first place.

I left S13 alone.  It wasn't worth risking further escalation. He had come back into the house after talking with his mother.   I proceeded to make dinner.  We ate.  We watched TV.   Everyone went to bed. 

The following morning I took a 1/2 day from work. The kids slept in. I made breakfast.  Everyone ate.  I dropped them off at home at 11:45 AM.  All three kids kissed me.  My oldest apologized for her defiant behavior that started everything off in the first place.   All three kids told me they loved me, they got out of the car and went into their mother's house. 

Apparently what followed is the interesting part.   BPDex takes the kids to the police department within 30 minutes and S13, who was still angry at me about getting in trouble the night before proceeds to blame me for bruises on his body that I know for fact came from his team tryout two days prior.   How do I know?   I gave him the ice packs to put on his injury right on the field and sideline and in front of other people!

For the whole day I'm totally unaware of the kids being taken to the police department at all.   I'm never contacted by the police in any way and to this day 3 months later I still never have been.  Later that night a CPS caseworker shows up at my house.  I invite her in.  She reads a list of accusations that were so off the wall that I couldn't believe it.  I was accused of strangling and choking, sitting on my child, and a whole host of other things that still have me in disbelief. 

Now a key point in all of this was the fact that my final divorce trial )after 2 years of working through the process) was scheduled to occur 36 days from this incident.  One of my trial arguments was that my child support should be reduced because I had the kids 44% of the time under our parenting arrangement. This was an obvious attempt on my BODex's part to neutralize that argument with the judge. 

So when the CPS caseworker came into my home, I told her that I wanted to speak with my attorney before saying anything to her.   From my perspective, I was thinking about the escalation my BPDex was attempting to pull in relation to the trial.   The CPS caseworker took it to mean I was trying to hide guilt in some way. 

Following a discussion with my attorney, I had the CPS caseworker come to my house a couple of days later (I had to be out of town for work so I couldn't see her before that). She and I sat down.  I explained everything that had happened that day and also proceeded to tell her that we were in the middle of a very contentious divorce and that this was an obvious attempt at another in a long list of escalations she's initiated in the divorce proceeding.   The caseworker herself said to me that day that she was inclined to believe my version of events.  The file had to remain open for 60 days per the local statutes, but that I probably didn't have anything to worry about.   

Fast forward 60 days and I receive a notification that I've been "indicated" to be a child abuser... .for raising my voice to a child who has assaulted me on several prior occasions, kicked me that day, and sending him to his room and refusing to let him leave it.   

So I have of course filed an appeal and I am awaiting my hearing date.   In the mean time I've minimized contact with my kids for my own legal protection.  They have since spent several nights over my house since without incident, but all after the 60 day open file dates but prior to the notification letter I received last week. 

So whether you out there believe me or not, I've never, ever, raised my hands to my kids in their lives. But I am strict in my expectation that I not be defied, told to shut up, ignored when they are told to clean up after themselves, or that their hand or legs never come up towards me in a gesture of attempted physical assault.   

So I now have to spend thousands of dollars I don't have in my post divorce life to defend myself against a government bureaucracy for what amounts to my raising my voice and pulling my defiant child into his room across a linoleum floor while he wasn't on his ADHD meds.   This is modest day America. 

If their BPD mother actually believed her own grossly exaggerated police report, why had she been so insistent on my starting to take the kids again starting on day 60 when the file was expected to be closed through receipt of the "indicated" letter that was received 3 weeks later?  Why didn't she come immediately on the day of the "supposed" incident when I and the kids were telling her to pick them up?   

I live in bizarro world where down is up and left is right.  Luckily I can keep all of this in perspective and still retain my sanity.