Went NC for 3 months, grew a lot, was it me? Can I be friends?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Long story short, met this woman and it was really intense chemistry right away.  I moved away but it was a LDR, it was really intense for me because it was kind of a push/pull relationship where I wouldnt hear from her for a while, then we'd visit/hook up, then back to avoidance. 

She worked as flight evac RN and always had cool stories, I worked in emergency stuff for 10 years so we bonded on that, but I dont work that anymore.  I really felt like her stories were brags and one-ups on any story I shared with her which caused me a lot of pressure.  I also found out she was married but claimed they were only together for money/kids.

I shortly broke it off after that, it was one of the hardest things I ever did.  I did a lot of personal growth and realized I had SERIOUS codependent tendencies.  Anyway I met her again this weekend (first time in 90 days) at a thing we both had to be at. I kept my distance, we talked a bit, I laid out my complaints to her and she was crying super bad, saying how sorry she was, that she missed me so much etc etc.  She seemed pretty sincere.  I was super tempted to hook up but I remained strong and essentially left saying I wasnt sure if I wanted to be friends because it was tough to get out of the pain.

The problem now is, there were TONS of problems in the relationship, but I wonder how much of it was me.  If I was less needy it'd have been perfect, occasional hookup, little work required. 

We reconnected by this obvviously, and she called me and we talked abit, there is NO future here as far as a family (her being 'married' and has kids) which normally sounds instant disqualified, but she is one of the few people that actually listens/cares about me which is hard to let go.  I tell myself I have grown and staying friends isnt bad... .

Thoughts?

[Sword]

Long story short, met this woman and it was really intense chemistry right away.  I moved away but it was a LDR, it was really intense for me because it was kind of a push/pull relationship where I wouldnt hear from her for a while, then we'd visit/hook up, then back to avoidance. 

She worked as flight evac RN and always had cool stories, I worked in emergency stuff for 10 years so we bonded on that, but I dont work that anymore.  I really felt like her stories were brags and one-ups on any story I shared with her which caused me a lot of pressure.  I also found out she was married but claimed they were only together for money/kids.

I shortly broke it off after that, it was one of the hardest things I ever did.  I did a lot of personal growth and realized I had SERIOUS codependent tendencies.  Anyway I met her again this weekend (first time in 90 days) at a thing we both had to be at. I kept my distance, we talked a bit, I laid out my complaints to her and she was crying super bad, saying how sorry she was, that she missed me so much etc etc.  She seemed pretty sincere.  I was super tempted to hook up but I remained strong and essentially left saying I wasnt sure if I wanted to be friends because it was tough to get out of the pain.

The problem now is, there were TONS of problems in the relationship, but I wonder how much of it was me.  If I was less needy it'd have been perfect, occasional hookup, little work required. 

We reconnected by this obvviously, and she called me and we talked abit, there is NO future here as far as a family (her being 'married' and has kids) which normally sounds instant disqualified, but she is one of the few people that actually listens/cares about me which is hard to let go.  I tell myself I have grown and staying friends isnt bad... .

Thoughts?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Sword, I think this is a set-up for disappointment, so I suggest you let it go.  Nevertheless, lots of people decide to recycle (including me, several times) so maybe you need to go through the wringer again to be sure.  If she has BPD and you have codependent tendencies, it is a recipe for trouble, which you seem to know already.  What makes you think it will turn out differently this time?

LuckyJim

[JQ]

Sword,

I would have to agree with Lucky Jim in that it is a set up for disappointment yet again. You did good staying on track of 90 days of NC ... .but remain strong if you are intent of not going through all the bad things again that come with someone who has BPD. I know ... .I know it's tempting ... .but is the cost of a "hook up" worth your personal well being ... .mental & physical health?  It is a good thing to separate yourself in part because she's married ... .nothing good could come after that. Remember back when you were feeling your lowest? Did you gain or loose weight? Did you loose sleep for not day's but weeks or months? Did any of that make you feel in a positive way?

Once you've shared your bodies ... .Sharing conversations, feelings, ideas, listening, all of that and more ... .is in itself intimacy ... .if the roles were reversed would you want your wife doing that? No judgement here ... .some people in this world have open relationships ... .

but more importantly ... .you yourself said you had SERIOUS codependent tendencies ... .my personal humble opinion ... .you would open yourself once again to all of that and start the long, painful process all over again ... .

IMHO

JQ

[Sword]

Well heres my question, I think a lot of this problem was ME being so needy - yes she's married and susposedly trying to get a divorce, I am NOT making an excuse for that- but only occasionally seeing her, hearing from her, being secretive, wasnt this MY problem not being ok with it?

Also, is there any association with BPD or codependency and idolization?  As mentioend, helicopter evac nurse has utterly captured my mind and I cant let go how 'cool' and exciting her life is, makes me feel so boring and inferior (which I certainly felt like she implied often)

Yet... .she does seem to legitmately care on some level, at the very least she is apparently risking her marraige.  Man... .I sound so stupid.

[JQ]

Well heres my question, I think a lot of this problem was ME being so needy - yes she's married and susposedly trying to get a divorce, I am NOT making an excuse for that- but only occasionally seeing her, hearing from her, being secretive, wasnt this MY problem not being ok with it?

Also, is there any association with BPD or codependency and idolization?  As mentioend, helicopter evac nurse has utterly captured my mind and I cant let go how 'cool' and exciting her life is, makes me feel so boring and inferior (which I certainly felt like she implied often)

Yet... .she does seem to legitmately care on some level, at the very least she is apparently risking her marraige.  Man... .I sound so stupid.

Well heres my question, I think a lot of this problem was ME being so needy - yes she's married and susposedly trying to get a divorce, I am NOT making an excuse for that- but only occasionally seeing her, hearing from her, being secretive, wasnt this MY problem not being ok with it?

Also, is there any association with BPD or codependency and idolization?  As mentioend, helicopter evac nurse has utterly captured my mind and I cant let go how 'cool' and exciting her life is, makes me feel so boring and inferior (which I certainly felt like she implied often)

Yet... .she does seem to legitmately care on some level, at the very least she is apparently risking her marraige.  Man... .I sound so stupid.

Sword,

I commend you on your honest thoughts on the subject and you're actually looking at you in addition to her as a BPD.  There is a book that explains your "unnatural" attraction to her. It's called "The Human Magnet Syndrome" ... .you should be able to find it at your local library or online. You said, "Also, is there any association with BPD or codependency and idolization?"

In part the book says ... .this magnetic love connection predictably begins like a fairy-tale, but quickly morphs into a painful “seesaw” of love and hate and hope and disappointment.  The experience of relational perfection is really just a guise for the temporary suspension of pathological loneliness, an excruciatingly painful condition that plagues both codependents and narcissists.  At the end of the day, the codependent’s dreams of a soul mate invariably dissolve into a “cellmate” reality.

The main thesis of this book is that codependents and pathological narcissists are naturally attracted to each other because of their opposite but compatible personality types.  Codependents typically lose themselves in relationships in which they provide the lion’s share of love, respect and care to others while neglecting to obtain the same for themselves.  Conversely, narcissists fall deeply in love with selfless caretakers (codependents) who satisfy their emotional and personal needs with no demands of reciprocity.  As partners, they create a dysfunctionally compatible relationship.  The same magnetic force that brought them together also“ bonds them into a long-term and persistent relationship.

I applaud you in that you recognize that at the heart of the issue with you is that you're "needy" ... .you explain yourself as a what appears to be a classic codependent behavior. If you actually believe this is at least part of the problem ... .then I would encourage you to seek out a good therapist to help you with your codependency issues and what is really at the heart of your behavior. Most codependents have had an absent parent that might or might not be substance abuser to include being a alcoholic as in my father. My mother is BPD & so is my sister who's husband is a police officer & a codependent ... .a codependent is the knight in armor ... .the white hat cowboy ... .we protect those who can't protect themselves ... .we want to rescue those who need to be rescued or so we think. They create crisis & drama for us to come to the rescue which might be in part why you are so attracted to her in her role as a flight nurse ... .but it's just a thought.

You need to really sit down, reevaluate yourself ... .look inward as to why you act the way you do ... .self evaluation ... .why do you behave the way you do ... .professional help could help with that.

You're in a bad situation ... .your stressed ... .your anxiety is high ... .you are lost as to a direction to proceed ... .you're probably not eating right ... .not sleeping ,... you need to take care of yourself both mentally & physically in order to really see a way forward ... .take a step back ... .take a deep breath ... .and start taking better care of yourself ... .a healthy relationship will follow without you even trying ... .

JQ

[Sword]

My mother is BPD & so is my sister who's husband is a police officer & a codependent ... .a codependent is the knight in armor ... .the white hat cowboy ... .we protect those who can't protect themselves ... .we want to rescue those who need to be rescued or so we think. They create crisis & drama for us to come to the rescue which might be in part why you are so attracted to her in her role as a flight nurse ... .but it's just a thought.

I am a bit confused what you mean. 

Also can she be the narc when she is the 'rescuer'?  Can I be the codp. when I am lusting after said rescuer? 

What really sucks too, is I miss the rescue so much (I did it as fire fighter) I am considering going into nursing to be er nurse and maybe eventually flight nurse - sounds super mirroring, I get it, but I wanted to go air force rescue way before she got into pic, so its like a 2nd chance at that ideal, but I admit it might be purely her too.

The comment on love/hate sure is true.  I swtich from that rapidly.  Man... .seriously is there ANY way meeting her helps put things to rest?  I like her so much, as much as I hate her and see the pain she causes.

[Lucky Jim]

I like her so much, as much as I hate her and see the pain she causes.

Sword, You have succinctly expressed why it is so hard to leave a BPD r/s.  It's like a drug addiction; we know its bad for us but we don't want to stop doing it.  The withdrawal symptoms are painful, as you're learning, which is why so many people (including me) opt for a recycle with a pwBPD.  Problem is, each recycle is more painful than the previous one.  It's a cycle and only you know when it's time to stop.  If you decide to get back on the roller coaster, fasten your seat belt and get ready for a rough ride.

LuckyJim

[JQ]

Sword,

Lucky Jim is spot on when he tells you being in a relationship with s/o with BPD is very much like a drug. Heroin is a highly addictive drug ... .heroin exhibits euphoric ("rush", anxiolytic and analgesic central nervous system properties. If every NON would be honest they would say they feel the same thing with their BPD partner & it actually has physical properties & reactions like heroin.  And like heroin you need more and more to get the same rush that you did in the beginning ... .and they cut you off or limit the amount you get & you start to go into withdrawal. The NON does strange things that they normally wouldn't do to get a bigger and bigger fix and so goes chasing the dragon. And as Lucky Jim points out ... .every fix you get ... .aka "recycle" the more painful it gets.


You said, "Man... .seriously is there ANY way meeting her helps put things to rest?"  We're NOT telling you that you CAN'T meet her ... .What WE are telling you is that from what we see from your writings you're not in a good place within yourself to meet her ... .or anyone else IMHO. You yourself said your "LUSTING" after her ... .nothing good can come after that. You also said,  "I switch from that rapidly."  So as much as you are "LUSTING" after her now ... .she might not return the actions in kind and then comes the quick slide down the coaster ... .fast, shaky, full of fear and anxiety.

You seem to be looking for a quick fix ... .looking for a quick answer to your relationship to your exBPDgf ... .NOTHING is ever fast with someone with BPD and NOTHING will ever be fast with any type of relationship with someone who has BPD. If you've read some post from others here,  you have read that some NONs have rode this crazy train roller coaster with their s/o BPD from 2 years to 25 plus years.  YOU have to realize that BPD IS A SERIOUS BEHAVIORAL ILLNESS!   My exBPDgf has been in & out of therapy for nearly 30 years with many different therapist and still has major behavioral issues from sex triangles, raging, painting black, painting white, recycles, deregulations almost on a daily basis!  She is self aware ... .she knows the pain & confusions she causes. She even told me she can't commit to me in a committed monogamous relationship ... .she looked right at me and told me I can't guarantee that I won't step out on you and have a sex triangle on you ... .she was constantly getting tested for STD's ... .now ask yourself ... .is this the kind of woman that you want to be the mother of your kids?   She continues a lot of bad behavior not because she "wants" to ... .but because it is a VERY COMPLICATED mental behavioral illness ... .she can't control it ... .YOU CAN'T CONTROL IT! YOU CAN'T CURE IT! 

None of us here are telling you what to do or what NOT to do ... .some here at the forums have decided to stay in their relationship with their BPD. We encourage them to read, learn and educate themselves on what they are most likely to experience when they do. It's going to be a lifetime of the rollercoaster crazy train that Lucky Jim speaks too and only YOU can decide when you've had enough if ever & get off the rough ride. KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING ON THE FOR WHEN YOU PUT PEN TO PAPER! GO INTO THIS WITH YOUR EYES WIDE OPEN FROM ALL THAT YOU LEARN HERE!

Others have decided to get off the crazy train and separate themselves from their BPD s/o. It's hard ... .but they have decided that it's what best for them. They come here to ask for help, guidance, suggestions in staying NC or NO CONTACT. We explain to them what worked for us, what didn't work for us ... .we didn't tell them or encourage them to go down their path ... .they chose it. They have decided after 2 years ... .some have decided after 10 years ... .some have decided after 25 years it is time to live the rest of their life walking a different path that doesn't include the BPD.

And still there are others here that haven't decided what they want ... .they flip back and forth ... .and read, educate and learn what BPD is. Then they have to look at themselves ... .introspection ... .really look deep as to why they are acting & behaving they way they are. They and only they can decide what fork in the road they're going to take ... .we can only tell you what to expect with our experiences with someone with BPD.  Expand your education & knowledge of BPD ... .in addition to yourself. I encourage you to seek out professional therapy ... .really read all the post that you can here ... .read the references, examples & stories, articles and research into BPD. ONLY after you have become educated in the subject matter can you make an informed choice of what direction you want to travel. I've done a lot of reading & educating & therapy about BPD ... .from all of that ... .p/w BPD suffer a lifetime illness ... .it will never be cured. From my knowledge & education they can only hope for a semi normal life with a lifetime of therapy & possibly meds ... .please feel free to chime in group if you've ever heard of anyone being "Cured" of BPD.

You said, " Man... .seriously is there ANY way meeting her helps put things to rest?"    The choice is yours ... .if you choose to meet her go into it with your eyes wide open knowing that the knife cuts both ways ... .if you're serious about ending it and finding some sort of closure ... .from my perspective walking away, going NC is the only way to really find closure. You have to know that you tried everything you could but it just didn't work out. You can't make someone love you or want to be with you or desire you or lust after you. Sometimes it's just best to walk away knowing that there was nothing else you could ever do or say to make it work ... .

JQ

[OnceConfused]

The grass is greener on the other side.

Here you are with your ego feeling inflated and flattered by having this woman who seems to be interested in you. My comments are that , always look at one's life history, if she is that good to a man (being a good listener, make you feel wonderful) then why she is going through a divorce.

with BPD , the initial phase is always wonderful as they make us feel like we have met our soul mate.  I felt the same way when I fist met the xBPDgf, but then I wondered why such a beautiful woman, well educated with a pharmacy degree, can not hang on to any men for more than 6 months. History repeated itself as our r.s went quickly from 0 to intimacy then also went quickly into the chaos and craziness of BPD. I lasted about 6 months.

[C.Stein]

The grass is greener on the other side.

You know, my ex told me that right after the first discard.  She said one of the reasons she discarded was because she had been thinking about cheating on me and it wasn't fair to me.  The grass is greener on the other side of the fence and she was tempted to hop the fence ... .almost her exact words.  

She believes commitment = marriage and without marriage relationship boundaries could be loosely defined.  

I didn't really know what to think about that, nor do I know if she actually did cheat before or after the discard.  I do know she wasn't the same after she told me.  She became much less open and more secretive about her feelings.  I had a strong gut instinct there was something she wasn't telling me.  I will never know the truth.

[SummerStorm]

Obviously, not every pwBPD is the same, but I've read forum posts on other sites for pwBPD, and a lot of them have said that they will sometimes paint someone black because of something that happened days, weeks, or even longer ago. 

Things were going okay for my former friend BPD and I after she painted me white.  Then, I mentioned us not being friends.  She wondered why.  I reminded her of the first discard and how it hurt me.  She was fine the next day.  But the day after that, on her birthday, she discarded me again.

Now, notice I said that things were going okay.  She would reply to only half of my texts, would sometimes take 8+ hours to reply, even though she had posted things on FB during that time.  We didn't see each other.  She told me very little about her life and left out the fact that she had a new boyfriend. It was okay, but far from the 50+ texts we would sometimes exchange in a day's time.  It wasn't at all fulfilling.

At this moment, I'm texting another good friend of mine, and we are joking with each other.  I'm not worried that she's going to flip out on me.  She shows me pics of guys she likes.  She genuinely cares about me and what I'm doing.  Her FB page is filled with nice pictures of her, her friends, and her family.  Even when I was friends with my former friend BPD, it was never like that.