Seems like the same old same old

[ttomsen]

My wife is uBPD. There is no question that she has BPD. I have told marriage counselors that it's like an up and down roller coaster on eggshells with her. I assumed it was Bi-polar.

BPD was like a light went on. I was hopeful there is a fix. When I told her, she flipped out even more. It didn't help that we have been together for 10 years and she had already, unknown to me, reached out to an ex bf that was now the golden child and I was the devil. The split black on me was the longest. This was fueled by the amount of lying she did to friends about me, and she finally found one lady that never figured out the truth and eventually distanced herself from my wife. My wife is convinced that I was just emotionally and sexually abusing her. There is no truth in any of that. I was not perfect, but I never did the heinous things she lied to her friends and family about.

We took a vacation to where she grew up, From Vermont to Utah. we stayed there for 1 month. at the end, she had the majority of her family do an 'intervention' on me , and how I should let her stay there with our 4 kids (ages 9, 7, 6, 4) because she was unhappy and afraid of me. It was mostly a shock to me, I had some clues. I denied the accusations and told my side of the story with BPD. My wife ran out of the meeting when the truth started coming out of actual abuse and police being called when she raged. I was left with her family who were upset. I was 3000 miles from home, no vehicle , at her sisters house. My wife left me there, had a new house lined up with all their help.

It was devastating. Here i stayed through years of real emotional and physical abuse, and yet I was touted as the abuser and shamed.

her family let me stay the night there, and bought me a plane ticket back to Vermont. I had to leave to return to our house and my job. My wife refused to tell me where the kids were. She never filed for divorce or a separation. I contacted a lawyer and they advised me to file for divorce and custody. I did not.

As far as I know my wife was never diagnosed. Though I suspect the last counselor did. because she fired that counselor that was familiar with BPD and hired a new one that specialized in emotional abuse, never telling me, and my wife was shocked replying 'How did you know?' when I asked her about it. My wife has a problem with lying to get attention and denying any of her wrong doing.

My wife is split black on me, and when we talk i want accountability for actions and that just causes her to trigger even more. She screams at me how I sucked the life out of her, and you can see it in every photo while we were married(not true). If i show her photos of her happy, she just dismisses it. She says i'm a mean person, which I counter with facts of the opposite, that she just dismisses as me trying to look good.

I have NO friends, I isolated myself so as to be there. So, I'm stuck in Vermont, I get to skype my kids 3 times a week, which isn't 100% consistent. We have a large 4 bedroom house full of our things, that i'm left to take care of. I told her I wanted to file an amicable legal separation. She replied that is not what wants, but she ignores me, doesn't give me her real phone number, only replies to me when she feels like it or wants it. If i talk about or ask anything she doesn't like she hangs up and refuses to speak with me.

I give her 600 dollars every 2 weeks, something i do not have to do at all legally, but she just says "oh you're just trying to look good". My kids think it's the greatest time ever as they have LOTS of cousins there. They currently live with her brother and sister, who have 5 kids of their own in a 5 bedroom house.

I'm really against divorce. We have a great relationship with it's up, but when it's down, and mostly lately it's miserable. I love her, and it feels like divorce would just be a ploy to snap her out of her black mode.

I do not know what to do. She thinks every thing is rosy and soo much better with out me. I was the devil. she has a new counselor that she hand picked for emotional abuse and is telling him a load about how terrible I was, and never telling the truth.

I want it to work. My hope is that she'll split back white, and want to work again. But I will have a hard boundary of she MUST address BPD. She tells me to never speak of BPD, that I am just trying to control her with it.

ARGGGGGG just typing this out makes me feel STUPID. I Should just file for divorce and custody, and let the cards fall where they may.

She has been there for almost 4 months now. I'm desperately trying to find a job near them, but it's not working out well. I have asked her to move closer to a metropolitan area, but she cannot stand to be away from her family. The same family she spoke to a few times a month and very shallow. I flew out there once for an interview in Las Vegas, and got to spend Halloween with the kids. During that time, she came to me and shakily said, "you aren't going to take the kids away right?" I replied "oh , like you did? how did that feel?" she just shrugged that off, even though some of it hit home.

[ttomsen]

I didn't really state a request in my post.

My post was for advice, in going about dealing with this type of situation.

Is the legal system aware of BPD, and how is it handled?

[ForeverDad]

Family court generally does not try to change people, although sometimes they can order Anger Management.  Of course, that's just classes so there may or may not be benefit.

If the person is not already diagnosed, the court is unlikely to seek a diagnosis concerning mental health, in most cases it handles the parties as they are.  What it gives weight to are the behaviors, behavior patterns and of course how well it all is documented.  Vague "he always... ." or "she always... ." may be heard and then ignored, apparently as hearsay.  So log books or journals (with specifics) or emails/texts are important.  If you have witnesses, then having the witness appear is much better than some statement, notarized or not.

Also, parenting behaviors get far more focus than adult behaviors (such as you and the other adult).

[livednlearned]

Hi ttomsen,

If you were able to get a job in Utah, would you try to make the marriage work?

One thing I find helpful in assessing BPD relationships is determining whether the individual is:

generally cooperative, not dangerous

uncooperative, not dangerous

not cooperative, dangerous.

These are levels of BPD that Bill Eddy applies (Eddy is the author of Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse). You may want to order a copy and read it a few times.

Not all people with BPD are high-conflict personalities (HCPs), but all HCPs have BPD. Then tend to recruit negative advocates, are persuasive blamers, and have a target of blame (you). Eddy and others who work with HCPs often say that they are not just difficult people, they are the most difficult. Your wife almost seems like a mild version of a HCP, if there ever were such a thing. Lucky for you, she did not involve law enforcement and make a false allegation that landed you in big trouble. However, she did set things up that way with her family, and put you on the defensive.

This is important to figure out because any legal strategy you take, or any type of strategy you take to reconcile with her, will be affected by the degree of your wife's distorted thinking and the types of actions she takes.

Legally, the longer you allow your wife to keep the kids in Utah, the more likely you will have to file for divorce there, if it comes to that. If that's the case, then look long and hard at the different divorce and custody laws. I'm in a state that is pretty backwards when it comes to the family law process. Vermont seems like a more progressive state, which can be advantageous for you as a father. Utah seems more conservative, and conservative states tend to be more difficult from a custodial point of view.

In my state, the petitioner for divorce files in the county where the family has resided the last six months.

If you want to learn communication skills to help you interact with your wife, the people on the Staying board can help you a lot. In general, you have to radically accept that your wife is characterologically not capable of taking responsibility for her actions, and learn to communicate in ways that validate her feelings, even while her facts are askew. It's not easy.

In general, I think when you have a clear idea of your values, and goals + objectives, the path is much clearer. But of course, that is not often where our heads are at when we show up on the Family Law board   after years being married to someone with BPD.

At the very least, if you do nothing else, document everything. Everything. And consult with several lawyers, one or two in each state, so you understand what you are facing if a potential divorce case moves to Utah. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to understand how things work in the different states. Go into a few consultations with a list of questions and ask each lawyer what their strategy would be to help you have your kids returned to Vermont.

You have friends here, and are not alone.  

LnL

[ForeverDad]

That 6 month residency requirement before filing for custody issues - a standard between states in the USA - is one you can easily meet.  You didn't give any specifics but it could be that she's approaching the 6 month threshold where she could file in her current state.  If you both qualify to file in your respective locations, then it's up to the courts to decide where the case will be handled, generally I would guess where the children are.

Beware.  Choose your words wisely with her.  If you tell her ":)o this or that... .or I will file for divorce" then you could trigger her to react quickly and file in her current state (if she has resided there for 6 months and can get her court to agree such as with utility bills, accounts mailed there, etc).

It is important that the spouses share information and resources for the marriage to be successful.  However, if the marriage is broken or ending, then it is more important to share only necessary information such as for parenting.  Sharing strategies and plans, especially with a spouse suffering with an acting-out PD, is almost surely self-sabotaging.

[livednlearned]

I just did a quick check -- Utah state law requires only 3 months of residency. www.divorce-laws.insidegov.com/l/45/Utah



Make sure you document every instance where it's clear she does not think you're abusive to you or the kids. You might want to find out if Utah is a one- or two-party consent state. If it's a one-party consent state, then you can record conversations without your wife's consent. This is something we suggest as a protective measure, in case she escalates her false allegations against you and brings in CPS or whatever it's called in Utah.

[ForeverDad]

Good news, Utah is a one party state.  Mine is too.  However, if it were a risk of me being framed for abuse and me being left without proof I was innocent, then I don't care where I lived, I would make sure I could prove I wasn't misbehaving.  If others around me happened to be recorded too while I was recording myself, well, oops, I rather face a low risk of a judge getting peeved at me rather than not being able to prove I was innocent.

www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide/state-state-guide

When I mentioned a 6 month residency requirement across the states, I guess that was for custody issues?  Divorce alone can be higher or lower?

www.family.findlaw.com/divorce/divorce-residency-faq-s.html

That state may not have jurisdiction over all other decisions such as child custody, property division, alimony, and support, however, because of other laws. Of course, if the non-resident spouse consents to the jurisdiction, then the court may proceed with these determinations.

www.family.findlaw.com/divorce/divorce-and-child-custody-state-laws.html

Sounds like you need legal advice so get some consultations and see what a few experienced local lawyers can offer?  We here are peer support, very helpful but not able to give legal advice.