Not sure if what to make of this

[david]

UxBPDw sent me an email last week about Thanksgiving holiday schedule. We have a court order that states boys are with dad on odd years and with mom on even years for Thanksgiving day. All extended holidays (Thanksgiving,Christmas,and Spring break) are to be split 50/50 as far as the additional time off of school. Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter are specifically mentioned rotating year to year. The additional days are split 50/50. If the additional days are an odd number the extra day is rotated year to year.

She says she doesn't know what her work schedule is yet but she is planning on having the boys on Thanksgiving. I reply that this is 2015 and the court order spells out odd years are with dad. I usually let her make the schedule since it is easier and I believe it gives her the control she needs.

She replies attacking me all over the place. About an hour later I get another email that she sent to her atty and cc'd to me. I read both emails later in the day but they are time stamped so I know one was an hour later. In it she tells her atty to start the process of taking away all my custodial time because I refuse to follow the court order ? We have 50/50 year round. I ignore.

Yesterday I decide to send an email asking her about the holiday since it is next week. I send her my proposal. The boys are with me for Thanksgiving day, they are with her on Wednesday, and with me on Friday. That follows the court order exactly since that is all the time they have off. She replies that I am not giving her the 50/50 required by the court order. She then proceeds to tell me that she hasn't been working for 3 1/2 months now.

I suspect she is having stress from not working. She is probably collecting 2/3 of her paycheck under disability insurance.

The last month or so her emails have become more "erratic/scattered/contradictory". Not sure what to make of it.

Our boys say she is very moody and is changing quickly from being fine to blaming them for all kinds of things which they have no knowledge of.

[bravhart1]

David,

Do you have an attorney as well?

So she sent something to her attorney asking to take you back to court for not following the order. I would scan the exact page of the order into an email and respond back asking her how she is interpreting this order differently than you are and see how she responds.

Twice this last month our special BPDmommy has sent us emails "telling" us exactly how the birthday schedule was going to go, and then again around a medical appt. both issues were spelled out in our air tight order down to the exact exchange location and time as well as how long the custodial parent was to wait if the other party was late. Her. "version" put her in control, changing the time and exchange location as well as how long. It also admonished us to follow the order or else!

We scanned it into email and sent it in response asking her to point out how she got those times and addresses out of the order for us to better understand how to comply with her wishes. She couldn't say "change the time and location" without saying she was the one who wanted to change the order not us. She wasn't happy about it, and complained it wasn't in the best interests of the child   but she went along with it.

She is also triggered right now, but we are long past trying to give her any compassion.

Every time we extend the olive branch we pull back a nub. Every time she extends one it has a shive hidden in it.

[david]

Yes, I have an attorney. We have been in court from 2007 until around late 2013 or early 2014. Since that time things have been quiet pertaining to courts and attorneys.

My ex has tried to "change" the court order occasionally but I simply state the order and things are fine. We have had the same Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter order since 2010 so we have the last four years with no problems.

The thing that I can't figure is how she changed from not having her work schedule to not working for months. The emails were a week apart. We have been communicating through email since 2007 and she has never been so blatantly contradictory in such a short time span. 

In the last month or two I sensed something was up because her emails have become more detached from our court order. She has mentioned things as if they were in the order and they are not.

I don't ask our boys if something is going on but they do talk about what they are dealing with. They both have said, the last few weeks, that mom is very moody. She goes from telling them how much she loves them and within an hour how they are constantly being disrespectful and unruly.

From listening to them they usually have minimal interaction with her when they are there. Our S17 spends most of his time in his room on his computer. Our S12 plays on his Ipad when he is with her. They usually don't even eat dinner together. They regularly make themselves something to eat or S17 makes something for him and his brother. Their mom spends a lot of time in her room. It is much different when they are with me.

We had a custody eval back in 2012 or 2013. The report stated that when the boys were asked to describe a typical day with their dad and their mom they both separately described their time with mom and never mentioned any interaction with their mom. They described their time with me including interaction between us and other family members. The evaluator thought it was so significant that he questioned ex in a meeting. He said it was glaring and concerning to him. That pretty much confirmed what they were talking to me about.

[bravhart1]

Sounds like she is going through some depression. Holing up in her room, not participating in family stuff (like meals).

Does she see a T?

I'm glad the boys are older and self sufficient at this point. And if you have 50/50 then they are with you enough to be safe.

Is it possible that being the mom of two bigger boys is getting a lot harder then it used to be?

Guessing they don't snuggle or think she the greatest like they do when they are little. Most moms get that boys grown up and out of that, maybe with all the othe stressors she is having a hard time adapting to things changing. And speaking of "changing", that ol change of life can kick any woman's backside, maybe she is having a hard time understanding herself at this point.

Lastly, I was wondering if she has anywhere to go for Thanksgiving? Might she be on the "outs" with family and doesn't want to attend normal Thanksging place? Or doesn't want to be alone or without escort?

[Turkish]

Her threat to change the order may be concerning if it costs you time and money, but her inability to read it accurately is on her, no threat there.  Sometimes I get the feeling that my Ex is too lazy to read the order and I have to tell her.

Is the major concern here more her recent emotional down spiral?

[david]

The recent emotional down spiral is the concern. I'm pretty much used to the nasty emails. That has been going on since 2007 although the quantity has decreased.

Don't know if she sees a T. I suspect she may be seeing the same one she was seeing back in 2007. That T, in my opinion, wasn't helping but rather enabling.

She has a med problem. She left in 2007 and before that had a pharmacy in our house. I discovered that by accident. I am pretty sure she is on an antidepressant.

I focused a lot of time several years ago working on them being self sufficient because ex never really knew what to do. A couple of years ago the boys would tell me that mom made dinner at 10 or 11 pm. I figured they may have been exaggerating but it became apparent that they were in fact telling the truth. The more the boys figured out how to take care of themselves the less mom interacted with them. That was what I seemed to observe from listening to them. Her isolation is not recent thing so that is not new.

She has pretty much pushed everyone away from her. She has a brother in the vicinity but they had a major blowout back in 2008 and haven't spoken to each other since. He doesn't talk to me anymore since I am the enemy. The rest of her siblings are several states away and have little contact with her as far as I know.

Her boys from her first marriage are either very LC or NC. That has been since 2007 when she left. In fact, after she left, two of my SS's (her kids from her first marriage) moved back in with me.

The isolation and pushing away were all her own doing and has been going on for sometime so that is not new.

[Panda39]

It's all speculation on what is triggering her but I'm with you something is up.  Whenever my SO's uBPDxw starts acting up it's usually because she has some stresser in her own life that is setting her off.

Remember the holidays themselves can be a trigger.  Lonely without the kids, doesn't have any plans with someone else, someone invited her and the kids to dinner but she can't bring them... .the sky is blue... .the grass is green... .who knows the trigger.

I guess my questions are what do you fear about her downward spiral?  What can you do about it?  Is it yours to do anything about?

We have been watching my SO's uBPDxw's downward spiral since the divorce 3 years ago, the only fear we had was for the kids in relation to her but there are natural consequences to her actions and we let them happen (as horribly painful as that is).  It is their relationship with mom not ours. At this point there is very little relationship.  Could we do anything to change the uBPDxw's behaviors and issues? 17 years of marriage couldn't fix it and nothing has changed.  Her problems are her problems.  We live our lives and she lives hers.

Follow the order and enjoy Thanksgiving with your kids.

Panda39

[david]

My fear is for the boys. When she left in 2007 she literally emptied our house. She did leave a journal of hers. It was dated and from about two year prior to us meeting to about 6 months afterwards. That was the thing that led me to BPD. She had 8 out of the 9 criteria. All except suicidal ideation. She exhibited that during the "breakup" in 2007. It's not enough for me to do anything legally but her emails from the last month or two took me back to that time period. I believe my gut is telling me something. I'm just not sure what it is yet.

[sanemom]

It is hard to know what to do when you can tell they are falling apart.  I would guess something is triggering her, too, but who knows what.

What things can you do to strengthen your boys?  What kind of coping skills do they have and what do they need?

[david]

She now sends me an email (yesterday) saying S17 had an eye exam at school and he flunked it. That is her word. She said she is getting a referral from the pediatrician to get his eyes fixed. Not sure what she means by that. She did mention glasses in the email. Well, I pick the boys up at school yesterday and ask S17 about his eye exam. He has no idea what I am talking about. He goes further that he had an eye exam last year in school but not this year. He has no issues with his sight. I believe him.

I think S17 can handle whatever his mom does. I am more concerned about S12 and invalidation from his mom. He is very trusting at this point in his life, at least with me. I really don't know what he is thinking with/about his mom.

[david]

I dropped the boys off at school this morning and decided to talk to the nurses at both schools. One is in elementary school the other in high school. Both boys have passed all of their eye and hearing tests since their first test. Eye exams are done yearly in our state and S17 will be having a test in a few weeks. S12 had them earlier and passed both. I talked to the high school nurse and told her what I was told by his mom. I also asked if there was a way both parents could be informed because I was not getting the information. She took care of that. I have been going through this since first grade so I am used to it. I thought I had high school straightened out but they have a new nurse and ex must have used that to change things.

When our oldest started middle school ex went there and convinced the school I was not to get any information. Don't know how she did it. I realized early on that something wasn't right. I went to the school and talked to the person at the main office. She looked up on the computer and I could see something on her face that said warning. I calmly asked her to call the principal at the elementary school and talk to him and gave her my cell phone number. I got a call about 20 minutes later and the woman said everything was straightened out.

[scraps66]

Sorry, I didn't read all of this but recognize the highlights as some kind of period of dysregulation.  My ex NPD/BPD does this from time to time usually the result of something else - I assume. 

The change of Holiday stuff and copying the attorney is just BS and I would hope no attorney would think they could fight that or would even try even knowing there was profit to be made in trying. 

[sanemom]

Did she ever back down on her ridiculous holiday demands? Did she just drop it?

I hope you and the kids are able to have a distraction-free Thanksgiving.

[david]

Thanksgiving has pretty much been settled. The only thing she hasn't told me was the time she was picking the boys up. I expect that the day before she is supposed to pick them up. I simply repeated the court order three times and she finally agreed.

However, I emailed ex about the eye test and what I learned. She replied saying that she received the information last year ? She went on to say that she called the nurse at high school just yesterday and confirmed what I was told. S17 passed his eye exam. She insisted she received a notice that he failed. So, according to ex,  S17 both passed and failed his eye exam. She then went on to accuse me of "implying" that she does not give me information about the boys in a timely manner. She tells me in the same email that she sends information to me in a timely manner but claims that she received the information at least six months ago and just informed me a few days ago. She says two completely opposite things ( S17 passed and failed his eye exam and she does and does not give me information in a timely manner) Nobody would believe me without the email. Email is the best form of documentation for me.

Ex has sent an email to her atty and cc'd it to me before so this is nothing new. I ignored all the rest of them and nothing ever came of it.

[PinkieV]

David, your comment about your issue at the middle school hit home. When my DH and I went to SS15's middle school two years ago to make sure they had DH's contact info, the secretary looked like she had seen a ghost when she heard the name. She went from helpful and friendly to a complete b#%*c in nothing flat.

She virtually ran back to the principal's office and they huddled together talking and sneaking furtive glances at us. I felt like a criminal! I'm the car pool, classroom helping, field trip mom! Obviously uBPD mom had been selling her story there for years.

Once the staff realized we were not the monsters she made us out to be, DH was added to the contact list. Somehow, uBPDm found out about it. Gee, I wonder who let that slip?  After DH won emergency custody and she was sentenced to a year in jail, we went to collect SS from school. It was mid-afternoon, and uBPDm had told him he couldn't go anywhere with DH until 5, even if she was in jail. He was petrified when he came to the office, and looked like he was on the verge of a panic attack.

A counselor sat him down in her office to calm him down while DH signed him out and attempted to get his transcript. We live two states away. Guess who's information had been deleted off of the computer? They took him back to have it added again, and I waited in the front to make sure SS didn't suddenly disappear. Then the school police officer walks in! Someone in the office had called him up for a possible "situation". DH explained - again - the situation, and the office had us wait while the officer verified uBPDm was really jailed. Completely illegal, as DH is his father.

We finally get everything taken care of, and DH takes SS out the door. I hung back, turned, and walked back to the secretary's desk. The principal was there as well. I addressed her, ignoring the secretary, and told her that uBPDm had been told by someone in the office that DH had been there, and that DH's info had also been subsequently deleted, and that he had effectively been treated like a criminal.  I told her he had the basis for a lawsuit for all the crap we had put up with, then turned to the secretary and told her I knew what she had done, and she was lucky I didn't get her fired. Yeah, I was stressed and livid after spending two weeks dealing with all this and footing most of the bill .

The funniest thing is that after uBPDm got out of jail, her youngest, a daughter went back to that school district. I'm sure we'd be stopped as kidnappers if we ever showed up in those parts again.

[david]

Years ago I was in court for my ex's second protection order against me. I was having issues with ex refusing to let me see the boys school bags and papers. At that time I had to pick the boys up at her residence after school so she would not let them bring their school bags with them.

In court I had my atty recommend that I pick the boys up at school instead of her residence. This kept me physically distant from ex so she could "feel" safer. The judge liked the idea. I could see ex didn't like the idea so I had my atty write the order right then. It was signed by both parents and the judge. It was hand written and I was told to get a copy that was typed would cost $75.

The next day I went to pick the boys up at school and sure enough the school was informed by ex that I was not permitted to pick the boys up at school. I had a copy of the order. They questioned it since it was handwritten. I told them I could get them a typed copy but they would need to give me $75. I told them to fax the hand written order to their law department and I would wait. Fifteen minutes later they said everything was okay and I took the boys with me. Apparently when ex found out she called the school and gave them a piece of her mind  That was the first time they got to experience her anger.

[livednlearned]

David, do you notice if S12 is acting any different during all of this? If he is your concern, and if there is something going on above and beyond the usual (which you do a good job handling), what would flag for you that he's struggling?

[david]

I get an email today telling me the boys have half day tomorrow and she will not be home so they can't take the bus to her place. Tomorrow is my normal custodial day and I pick them up at school anyway. S12 has half a day and S17 has a full day tomorrow too. I have a scheduled teacher conference tomorrow with S12's teacher. They always have conferences the week of Thanksgiving. I don't don't know if ex scheduled a conference or not. I always schedule a conference without her since the joint conferences never worked.

I think something has triggered her but this is the longest episode I can remember. I am coming to the conclusion that this is just a way to engage.

lnl, I will see the boys tomorrow. I rarely call because ex listens to the conversations. Both boys call me when she is not there and I can tell when she is listening because of the way they talk and they usually want to get off the phone.

[david]

I had a teacher conference today for S12. The school does this every Thanksgiving week. S12 is doing very good in school which I kind of expected. Ex was not there but the teacher said she wanted a phone conference at some other time. I've been to several school events this year and ex has not been to any. I've talked to his teacher several times this year. The teacher did say he hasn't met S12's mom. Two years ago we were going through court because I was seeking more time during the school year. Ex actually volunteered at the school for a bunch of things. Now that court has passed she is going back to her "normal" behavior about the kids and school. She has a hands off approach.

Today, I received three emails from ex. One appears to be trying to cover her inconsistencies from prior emails in the last week. The other two are ramblings. I didn't have to reply to any of them so I just put them in a folder.

I picked the boys up. S12 had half day today so we had some one on one time. We went out for lunch and he was fine. He didn't bring up his mom so I didn't bring her up either. He talks to me about her when he needs to so that was a relief.