Reading old text messages reminds me how one sided our relationship was

[Depression = 72% of members]

I know we are supposed to delete everything. I have maintained NC for 4 months, but other than throwing away her clothes and toiletries from my house I have kept some old text messages. Rereading them makes me sad but also reminds me how awfully one-sided this relationship was. I was in a constant state of give give give, showing unbelievable levels of love and caring, while she sat back and threw me a crumb of affection here and there.  It was so obvious to me (and to her I'm sure) how enfatuated I was with her. Sickens me now to see how much love can change who we are. 

[hopealways]

I know we are supposed to delete everything. I have maintained NC for 4 months, but other than throwing away her clothes and toiletries from my house I have kept some old text messages. Rereading them makes me sad but also reminds me how awfully one-sided this relationship was. I was in a constant state of give give give, showing unbelievable levels of love and caring, while she sat back and threw me a crumb of affection here and there.  It was so obvious to me (and to her I'm sure) how enfatuated I was with her. Sickens me now to see how much love can change who we are. 

[once removed]

hey hopealways 

who says we are "supposed to delete everything"? i didnt. in the aftermath, it was painful to have reminders around so i put them away.

rereading old text messages was eye opening for me too. are you feeling anger over the way the relationship transpired?

[hopealways]

hey hopealways 

who says we are "supposed to delete everything"? i didnt. in the aftermath, it was painful to have reminders around so i put them away.

rereading old text messages was eye opening for me too. are you feeling anger over the way the relationship transpired?

I don't feel anger anymore, it's more like sorrow and acceptance. It's really like an addiction, I think I reflect on the good times to attempt to bandage the emptiness I feel without her.  It's a process, I was feeling amazing a week ago, but last few days I am missing her.  Plus an ex-GF on mine (not BPD) reached out to me. While I am not interested in this person anymore it made me wonder if my BPDx will do the same.

My best female friend was recently diagnosed with BPD and her actions and way of thinking are so horrific (she tells me EVERYTHING) I have a great insight into the way they think which is even greater than with my BPDx who obviously hid A LOT.  Needless to say I know NC and moving forward was the right thing to do, it's just not that easy.

[butterfly15]

I have been NC for 2 weeks now. It is actually going by quickly this second week. I actually went back to 2 years ago of old text I found on my old phone. Wow! Knowing what I now now I can't believe how naive I was. He was that good. I had never had experience w a pwBPD before. There were red flags everywhere. I though we were in an exclusive relationship for well over a year. Boy was I wrong. That killed me. To know how loyal I was and gave my all. I know the NC is for the best but I have reminisced a bit it actually helps me to read even the more current text messages. He needs lots of help. I'm trying got focus on me now. I feel so taken advantage of and embarrassed for what I let go on. I think I am a smart Independent woman. I tried to save him. As I learned more I realized I alone could never do that. I have accepted.

[JohnnyShoes]

Feel the same way Hope...

For the most part I'm doing fine. Don't think of her much.

But once in a blue moon sort of way she comes across my mind, or should I say a "memory" comes across my mind.

I find myself missing that particular event(s) we share. But THEN I have to go through this whole thing again. ... .like putting this ex relationship on Trial again... .just to convince myself of 2 things.

1) I did the right thing by leaving and letting it go.

2) I can't have her back. It would only be more of the same. ... .and I CANNOT ... .DO NOT want that. I want someone REAL.

[once removed]

i want to suggest being careful about reading in too much about your diagnosed friend. she is not your ex, she was not in your relationship, and she does not represent all people with BPD.

you say you gave gave gave while she sat back and threw crumbs. that would bug me to reread/relive too. how do you think the relationship got to that point? how and why did it remain that way? its useful to talk about and explore.

[hopealways]

My friend may not be my ex but BPD all exhibit eerily similar characteristics, in fact they have to display 5 of the 9 DSM IV characteristics so by definition they will all be acting in very similar ways. And I do believe seeing my diagnosed BPD friend really has helped me understand my ex. So I don't make any apologies for BPDs, they certainly have never shown one bit of mercy to any of our friends on this forum.  I wish BPDs would just leave the rest of us alone.

[once removed]

so, through this diagnosed friend, what are you learning about BPD and your ex?

[hopealways]

Through my diagnosed BPD friend I am learning that Borderlines are extremely empty inside, they are impulsive, they are totally unregulated emotionally, they have had really bad and turbulent prior relationships leaving their exes devastated emotionally and financially, they have zero self esteem and no sense of self which leads to unstable careers, and they lie, cheat, manipulate. Mine was such a liar she would be in Starbucks with a girlfriend and lie and say she was in Coffee Bean.

[once removed]

yes, i think thats all generally correct. it doesnt sound like any way to live to me. whats sad to me is that such a living hell is obviously not chosen, and makes recovery very difficult, so the cycle is likely to repeat. what do you think?

[SummerStorm]

I can relate to this, at least during the devaluation.  

I had a crush on my former friend, but she was in a relationship and I thought she was straight anyway, so I kept my feelings hidden.  Her idealization of me started pretty early, even before we had spent any time together outside of work.  One day, we were texting on a day when work was closed due to snow, and we somehow got on the subject of where I live (rural, surrounded by woods and fields).  And out of the clear blue, she said, "I would love to sit around a fire with you, with your cats and some wine."  It caught me off guard because it's not something a friend would say, especially one I had only been friends with for a month.  Not long after that, she said that her number had somehow been deleted by the closings/delays phone system, and that I would need to text her on mornings when there was bad weather, to let her know if we had work or not.  In the five or so years that this system has been used, I've never once heard of someone being deleted from it.   By the end of that month, she was texting me at all hours, including when she was out with her boyfriend.  Once, she was sick and throwing up and sent me 11 texts.  This was long after I had gone to bed.  :)ays after I came out to her and she told me she's bisexual, she randomly asked me if I had ever thought about kissing her.  I know now that this was mostly her looking for attention, but up until that point, I hadn't given any indication that I had feelings for her.  

Then, as time went on and we got closer, I started to notice that she would ignore texts that had anything to do with my feelings or problems I was having.  She only wanted me to comfort her.  Later, she wanted me to flirt with her.  She would send me pictures, looking for me to compliment her.  I would send her pictures, either of me or of just random things and wouldn't get any reply.  

Once the devaluation stage started, she would go hours without replying to me.  It was so confusing.  So, I was still just as infatuated with her as I always had been, but what changed was that she was no longer infatuated with me.  

[hopealways]

yes, i think thats all generally correct. it doesnt sound like any way to live to me. whats sad to me is that such a living hell is obviously not chosen, and makes recovery very difficult, so the cycle is likely to repeat. what do you think?

Absolutely the cycle will repeat forever.  As far as recovery, depends on what you define as "recovery". There has never been one case of a diagnosed BPD making a complete recovery, i.e. living a harmonious and loving life with their partner.  But yes there are BPDs who, after therapy, learn to manage their anger better, and stop attempting suicide.  So, in the best possible scenario and after much therapy, they are less suicidal and will act out less.  That is still not good enough for me.

I feel for them, I really do. But as far as them not being able to help how they act: I have often wondered about this because during the honeymoon phase they act absolutely perfectly: that's how they seduced us. So they CAN act normally and great.   They just choose when to do so and when not to. That's pathological manipulation.

[SummerStorm]

Through my diagnosed BPD friend I am learning that Borderlines are extremely empty inside, they are impulsive, they are totally unregulated emotionally, they have had really bad and turbulent prior relationships leaving their exes devastated emotionally and financially, they have zero self esteem and no sense of self which leads to unstable careers, and they lie, cheat, manipulate. Mine was such a liar she would be in Starbucks with a girlfriend and lie and say she was in Coffee Bean.

I'm sure that, in many ways, it's comforting to have a friend who is self-aware enough to be honest about how she feels and acts.  Mine is self-aware about some things, such as feeling empty.  She never came out and said that she has no self-esteem, but she did say things like, "I don't respect myself."  She would also call herself fat, even though she wasn't.  Also, she always seemed genuinely surprised whenever I told her how attractive she is, like she never really believed it.  

[SummerStorm]

yes, i think thats all generally correct. it doesnt sound like any way to live to me. whats sad to me is that such a living hell is obviously not chosen, and makes recovery very difficult, so the cycle is likely to repeat. what do you think?

Absolutely the cycle will repeat forever.  As far as recovery, depends on what you define as "recovery". There has never been one case of a diagnosed BPD making a complete recovery, i.e. living a harmonious and loving life with their partner.  But yes there are BPDs who, after therapy, learn to manage their anger better, and stop attempting suicide.  So, in the best possible scenario and after much therapy, they are less suicidal and will act out less.  That is still not good enough for me.

I feel for them, I really do. But as far as them not being able to help how they act: I have often wondered about this because during the honeymoon phase they act absolutely perfectly: that's how they seduced us. So they CAN act normally and great.   They just choose when to do so and when not to. That's pathological manipulation.

Keep in mind, though, that pwBPD are always searching for this perfect relationship that doesn't exist. The honeymoon phase feels great for them.  They are convinced that each new person is "the one."  The person really is "perfect."  Then, when that person disappoints them or triggers abandonment/engulfment fears, that perfect world they created is torn to pieces. 

I'm not sure if it's completely that they choose when to act normal and when not to.  The closer my pwBPD gets to people, the more she acts out.  She got along really well with her ex-boyfriend's friends but only ever saw them a handful of times.  On the other hand, she didn't get along at all with his cousin, whom she saw every day after she moved in with her ex.  Nearly everyone I've talked to who's met her has basically said the same things: "She acts really immature," "She's a bit odd," "She moves around a lot, doesn't she?"  One co-worker told me that she would snap at students for really weird things, such as behaviors that could have been fixed with a firm, "Please stop doing that."  So, people notice these things, but until you are completely in the pwBPD's life, it won't all come together.   

Can they be manipulative?  Yes.  However, I'm not completely sure if it's as much an intentional act as a method of self-preservation or, perhaps, a coping method. 

Again, not all pwBPD are the same, so some of them may lie for really awful reasons, but mine lied because she didn't want to disappoint people or make people mad.  What she didn't understand, unfortunately, is that the truth would have caused far less problems. 

[once removed]

There has never been one case of a diagnosed BPD making a complete recovery, i.e. living a harmonious and loving life with their partner.

that is simply not true, hopealways.

i dont think its black and white - they can help how they act, cant help how they act. people are responsible for themselves and their behaviors, regardless.

intimacy is a trigger for BPD. the closer we get, the higher the stakes; less ability to regulate emotions, increased sensitivity to shame, greater fear of both abandonment and engulfment which can swing wildly back and forth, and sure, that can include manipulative behaviors; defense mechanisms. it is mental illness - pwBPD are not con men and women, and i can assure you that my ex did not act absolutely perfectly; in fact the first three months were kind of a nightmare.

it sounds like you feel conned - lied to, fooled, used, taken advantage of, whatever you prefer. i understand the feeling. its a painful, angering, and frankly scary thought. i think it misses the big picture and that its unnecessary to tell ourselves. pwBPD feel very intensely, and desperately, and on many levels want the happily ever after scenario with us even more than we do. its not that what we experienced wasnt real - its that it was, sadly unsustainable.

here is another BPD perspective, when it comes to what it is like to love:My Definition of Love. I have Borderline Personality Disorder

[hashtag_loyal]

I know we are supposed to delete everything.

I didn't. I keep all the data I can to better be able to call my ex out on all her current and future lies.

Nowadays, when I re-read old texts, it is mostly for entertainment value. It is amazing that someone can lie and deny so much even in the face of clear evidence!

[SummerStorm]

There has never been one case of a diagnosed BPD making a complete recovery, i.e. living a harmonious and loving life with their partner.

that is simply not true, hopealways.

i dont think its black and white - they can help how they act, cant help how they act. people are responsible for themselves and their behaviors, regardless.

intimacy is a trigger for BPD. the closer we get, the higher the stakes; less ability to regulate emotions, increased sensitivity to shame, greater fear of both abandonment and engulfment which can swing wildly back and forth, and sure, that can include manipulative behaviors; defense mechanisms. it is mental illness - pwBPD are not con men and women, and i can assure you that my ex did not act absolutely perfectly; in fact the first three months were kind of a nightmare.

I would imagine that this is what leads to statements such as, "I'm scared of how I feel."

My pwBPD becomes incredibly depressed as soon as she realizes that she loves someone.  Then, she gives the person an "out" and tells him/her about her bad behaviors and says, "I won't blame you if you leave me right now."  She gave me an out a few days before she gave her now ex-boyfriend one.  We both stayed.  But it was like she knew it was only a matter of time before we'd both be gone.  So, she became even more depressed.  She drank.  When that didn't work, she cut.  When that didn't work, she started binge eating.  When that didn't work, she smoked pot every once in a while.  When that didn't work, she started smoking pot every day, all day.  

It's interesting that you mention how the first three months were a nightmare.  I think we often look back at the idealization stage and think, "That was so great."  But really, what was so great was being told several times a day how amazing we are, how they've never met anyone like us before, etc.  My pwBPD canceled the first plans she ever made to hang out with me, a few weeks after we started talking every day at work.  Then, when we eventually did hang out, we went to the movies, and she was distracted the whole time, going back and forth between talking, checking her phone, and napping.  Other than the movies, dinner, and watching TV at my house, we never did anything together, and she considered me her best friend.  So, I was "amazing" and "perfect," but she was always canceling plans that we had.  

[hashtag_loyal]

yes, i think thats all generally correct. it doesnt sound like any way to live to me. whats sad to me is that such a living hell is obviously not chosen, and makes recovery very difficult, so the cycle is likely to repeat. what do you think?

I agree that they did not choose such a living hell, and I have nothing but sympathy for any pwBPD because of the suffering they have known their whole lives. That said, they all have the intelligence of an adult, and know right from wrong.

It doesn't matter to me whether someone lies because they coldly calculated a potential future benefit to themselves by establishing/maintaining deception, or whether they lie in reaction to an unexpected situation in order to fulfill some inner-need to be in control. Inner-pain or no, everyone knows lying is wrong, and I feel it is wholly appropriate to hold pwBPD accountable for the times they choose to do wrong.

[steve195915]

Through my diagnosed BPD friend I am learning that Borderlines are extremely empty inside, they are impulsive, they are totally unregulated emotionally, they have had really bad and turbulent prior relationships leaving their exes devastated emotionally and financially, they have zero self esteem and no sense of self which leads to unstable careers, and they lie, cheat, manipulate. Mine was such a liar she would be in Starbucks with a girlfriend and lie and say she was in Coffee Bean.

Very accurate description of BPD! Regarding your last sentence, Why do they lie about something that isn't something to lie about?  My BPDgf told me she was walking her dogs at a beach park by herself.   I later found out that wasn't true so when I asked her where she really went, she kept on sticking to that story even though it wasn't true.  She ended up going over a gf's and walking in her neighborhood.  So after a big fight and things calmed down I asked her why did she lie and not just say where she went when it was nothing wrong.  Her reason was she felt pressured and that if she told me the truth, then that would mean what she originally said to me would have been a lie.  A change in plans isn't a lie and lying so what you originally said wouldn't be untrue is very illogical thinking.  My gf freaks out about any change in plans so maybe she would rather lie than admit a change in plans.  I want to ask is it normal BPD behavior to lie about things where there is no reason to lie and why do they do it?

[SummerStorm]

Through my diagnosed BPD friend I am learning that Borderlines are extremely empty inside, they are impulsive, they are totally unregulated emotionally, they have had really bad and turbulent prior relationships leaving their exes devastated emotionally and financially, they have zero self esteem and no sense of self which leads to unstable careers, and they lie, cheat, manipulate. Mine was such a liar she would be in Starbucks with a girlfriend and lie and say she was in Coffee Bean.

My gf freaks out about any change in plans so maybe she would rather lie than admit a change in plans.  I want to ask is it normal BPD behavior to lie about things where there is no reason to lie and why do they do it?

I can only speak for two pwBPD.  One lies to get out of trouble and/or to place blame on someone else.  However, she is also a teenager, and a lot of teenagers do this, so I'm not sure if that's as much BPD as it is common teenage behavior. 

The other, as I mentioned in an earlier post, lies so that people don't dislike her.  The first time she ever lied to me was the first time she made plans to hang out with me.  She asked if I wanted to go to the school musical where we work.  I said Sunday would be best for me.  On Friday afternoon, she came by my room and asked if we could go that night instead.  I didn't want to sit at work for four hours on a Friday night, waiting for the musical to begin, and I was annoyed that she wanted to change plans but wouldn't say why.  I asked her if Sunday would still work.  She said "yes."  Sunday rolled around, and she was "sick" and couldn't go.  Months later, I found out that she had also asked her boyfriend to go with her to the musical, but he works Fridays and there was a snow storm predicted for Saturday, so he could only go Sunday.  She didn't want to cancel plans with me in favor of going with her boyfriend and didn't want all three of us to go and me to be the third wheel, so she just canceled the plans completely.  The funny thing is, if she would have explained to me from the beginning that her boyfriend wanted to go but could only go Sunday, I would have agreed to go Friday night instead. 

Once, she had a cold sore and was self-conscious because of it, so she wore a band-aid to work.  Instead of not saying anything at all (I doubt anyone would have asked) or just telling people she had a cold sore (lots of people get them), she made up an elaborate story about how her rabbit scratched her and how she almost needed stitches. 

Another time, instead of telling a co-worker that she didn't want to chaperone the prom or saying that she was busy and leaving it at that, she lied and said that she was having a root canal done that day.  I was once supposed to stay over at her apartment, but she canceled that morning and just said we should hang out at my house for a few hours.  I recently learned that her apartment was really crappy and that her room was very messy and junky.  I think she was ashamed of it and realized that she didn't have time to clean it and make it look good.  She didn't want me to think of her as being poor.

Probably the worst lie was when she raged at me in a text message after I triggered her engulfment fears.  She called me nasty names and told me no one would ever love me.  Then, when she realized how hurt I was and how mad I was at her, she suddenly pretended that it was her boyfriend texting me from her phone.  She didn't want to take the blame for saying those things to me, so she placed the blame on him.  This lie hurt me worse than anything.  When I asked her why she did it, she replied, "I thought it would help you let go" (she had considered leaving her boyfriend for me but then decided to stay with him) and then added, "It seemed like a good idea at the time." 

Remember that pwBPD have a fear of abandonment, and their perception of why someone might abandon them is often skewed.  I have a good job, a nice and reliable car, and decent clothes.  She may have been afraid that I would abandon her if I found out that her room was messy and that she lived in an apartment that wasn't very nice.  She may have thought that I would abandon her if I found out she made plans with her boyfriend after she made them with me.  She may have been afraid that people wouldn't talk to her anymore if they knew she had a cold sore.  None of these things would have happened, but she thought they would, and that's why she lied. 

pwBPD are also very impulsive, so they know that lying is bad, just like they know that doing drugs is bad, but they still do it because they live in the here and now and don't consider the consequences of their actions.

[hashtag_loyal]

I want to ask is it normal BPD behavior to lie about things where there is no reason to lie and why do they do it?

I think so. I believe many pwBPD have an innate need to feel "in-control" of their relationships, and getting someone else to believe their lies -- any lies -- helps to reinforce that control.

An alternative explanation is the tendency towards feelings = facts in pwBPD. So in the instance of your gf lying about where she walked the dog, because she intended to walk the dog at the beach, that is (more or less) the same as actually doing it. (Although I don't see how someone could be in Starbucks and feel like they are in Coffee Bean.)