My BPDw's love to control

[Samuel S.]

My BPDw loves to try to control everything and everybody, although she oftentimes will find herself frustrated. This need of hers to control is due to the fact that her mother verbally, emotionally, and physically abused her and also due to the fact that my BPDw's D 7 1/2 passed away essentially from West Nile Virus over 16 years ago. Also, the holiday season becomes a time that is horrible for her and for many others when they have experienced losses.

I have had to drive my BPDw to and from work for the last couple of days. As I have done so, she has tried to control how I drive and where I drive. There has been no tact on her part. There has not even been a please or a "why don't you?" on her part.

I could have easily reacted in a very abrupt, angry way about her need to control and to be a back seat driver. I just responded by saying politely that I know how to get to her work, and I am doing the best I can to get her there as quickly and as safely as possible. BTW, the first day I took her to work, she admitted she was late in getting ready due to her studies and not noticing the time. She was especially irritated then that I wasn't speeding, which I would never do.

The reason for me driving her to and from work is due to the fact that one of our cars has been in the car shop several times and has not really been repaired correctly. So, indeed, while this is frustrating, I validated her feelings about this. She eventually said that losing her first born was the worst. So, she calmed down.

So, just by being mellow and by being polite when she obviously was angry, controlling, and frustrated seemed to calm her down, at least for this episode. It is just when she becomes verbally and emotionally abusive with me, like one of you said, I need to walk out of the room or the house. It hasn't gotten to that point yet, thankfully so.

[Samuel S.]

Along with her need to control as I mentioned in my original post, she likes to control even in phone conversations, especially if she is during her lunch break. She waits until the last several minutes of her lunch break. Then, she will call me to vent about what has been going on at work. Very rarely will she ask how I am doing. Indeed, it is a monologue and not a dialog. If it is something really important that I need to share with her, then, she will listen. Otherwise, she will do the talking and say she has to return to work. I am at the point of wanting to say if you called me, let's have a dialog instead of venting session on her part, if she is at work.

The only times that she seems to care about me or to listen to me is when she is away doing her studies or when I might have a medical emergency going on. Even then, I feel she is not really listening, but wanting to control or to try to put a muzzle on me, if you will.

[OnceConfused]

Samuel:

The constant frustration and verbal abuse are ok for a time or two , but could be come a real sore on a daily basis. I feel for you. For better or for worse, I have seen couples like you who constantly ready to attack each other at every little triggers. Personally, knowing what I know now of life and life's purpose, I don't tolerate that war-status ANY MORE.

[Samuel S.]

OnceConfused, I have agreed with you many times and have taken your advice about getting and reading the love language book. It is a very good book. I am a slow reader which is good so that I can truly evaluate what it states and to apply it in the best ways I can. For those things, I truly do appreciate you and thank you.

Where I differ you very strongly is your latest post where you say verbal abuse is okay for a time or two. A time or two? Verbal abuse is verbal abuse. It is like saying I should tolerate pain, even if it is a time or two, because it is okay. It is not okay - ever! All it takes is one time of a verbally abusive remark to offset the whole relationship, no matter if they are married or not.

Also, just to let you know, although you said you have seen couples constantly ready to attack each other at every little trigger, I don't do that at all! I have a high respect for people and a high sensitivity of others. I practice this both personally and professionally. Each person is a world unto himself or herself. Just to give you an example, I tutor both young adults and adults. I practice the philosophy that they wish to learn, and I practice the philosophy that their questions deserve answers.

As for your last statement about not tolerating war-status ANY MORE, that is truly awesome, and I respect you for that! I just wish I could be like you in that regard!

[Samuel S.]

I also want to respond to your comment about constant frustration and verbal abuse. Granted, we can all get frustrated. Nevertheless, taking out one's frustration onto another person who has nothing to do with their frustration whatsoever is unforgivable. My BPDw has had a horrible background and is trying to make changes. Nevertheless, her verbal abuse, even with me responding when it happens, is not okay whatsoever.

Everybody and I mean everybody deserves to be treated with respect and with decency. If someone has done something wrong, they need to talk it out with the individual, but not to use a 3rd person as an escapegoat, because they can't take it out on the individual.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Sam, When you say that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity, do you include yourself in that category or do you think you deserve less?  Tough question, I know.

LuckyJim

[Samuel S.]

Lucky Jim, yes, I do include myself in that category. Everyone, you, I, nonBPDs, BPDs, we all deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. If I were not to include myself, I would not have gone on this website like all the rest of us nonBPDs. We just would be doormats which we are not. BPDs try to impose us as being doormats which is why we resist. I suppose the question could be asked, if BPDs feel they deserve to be treated with respect and dignity and subsequently that they should do the same for their SO.

[OnceConfused]

Samuel:

I think I am in a happy state now because I am nice to others but yet I practice the attitude that "I care but only that much ... ". This means if others are not nice to me, then instead of getting angry or upset at them, I just let them go out of my life or thoughts. I have to keep reminding myself that my happiness is mine to make and not theirs to give out.

In order to stay of your path, you have to be vigilante about your purpose in life. You have not let others pull you off that purpose.

[formflier]

  First:  Not claiming that any verbal abuse is ok.  However, we usually tolerate it from people that don't normally do that to us, because it is so out of character and we are interested in what is "really" going on.  Usually, normal people will come to their senses in a day or two and apologize, once they realize what they have done.  The frustrating thing with pwBPD is that it is an ingrained habit and they very likely don't see it as abuse.  When my wife says "I've got to be honest here, it's about guaranteed that something horrible is coming".  The trick for me to remember is that she doesn't think she is being abusive (that doesn't make it ok) so when I respond I try to guide the conversation to a better place.  If it works, then we both win.  If not, I will leave the conversation.                    

FF

[TheRealJongoBong]

My wife also has a need for control, which I understand are attempts to actually control her own anxiety. She would not see it as abuse (if she ever looked there, of course) because she "knows" (her wording) what needs to be done. Calling her on the controlling is worse than useless because it gives her the message she doesn't "know" and this stokes up her anxiety. I'm far better off addressing comments to lower her anxiety so she doesn't feel the need to have as tight of a grip on things.

In your driving example I would let her know in advance what route I was going to take and if she told me I was going too slow I would tell her directly I was doing it because I wanted her to arrive safely. She would probably give me some lip about being a wimp or something, but it would also raise her self esteem because I showed I cared about her.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Sam, Next question, of course, is: do you find that your BPDw treats you with the respect and dignity you deserve?  LJ

[TheRealJongoBong]

It's verbal abuse only if you allow it be that way. Otherwise it's just a bunch of words from someone who has trouble with self-soothing and dealing with their emotions. It's entirely your choice in how you want to deal with it.

[Samuel S.]

Formflier, why tolerate verbal abuse at all? Granted, it might so out of character. Granted, there can be a lot going on that we don't know about. Granted, we need to show compassion. Nevertheless, we deserve never to be the punching bags of anyone. We all deserve to be treated with respect and with dignity all the time. To do the contrary even once is showing that there is a need to lash out at someone. I have done nothing wrong. My BPDw has a lot going on. I listen. I praise. I encourage. I show compassion. I give validation. When she opts to lash out at me, sometimes, it is easy to leave. Sometimes, it is so horrifying, that I really am so shocked. Sometimes, when she is being so absurd like the time when I was driving by myself. I was at a legal stop. Suddenly, I was hit from behind by a car slowing down at about 20 to 30 MPH. My car was damaged. I had a whiplash. Both car insurance companies determined the other driver was at fault. My BPDw said it was my fault, because I was supposedly in a bad mood. Again, she was not in the car. I was having a fabulous day. I stated all of this to her, and she still claimed it was my fault. Speaking about trying to manipulate the situation! Of course, she didn't mind that I got a nice check from the other driver's insurance company to pay for bills.

Lucky Jim, there are times that she treats me with respect and with dignity, when I bring in the money. Otherwise, she just sees me essentially as a person to be talked to. When I am sick, she puts labels on me, saying that it was all my fault. I try to talk it through with her, but sometimes, like formflier has said, I just have to walk away, because her talk is so absurd.

[formflier]

Formflier, why tolerate verbal abuse at all? Granted, it might so out of character. Granted, there can be a lot going on that we don't know about. Granted, we need to show compassion. Nevertheless, we deserve never to be the punching bags of anyone. We all deserve to be treated with respect and with dignity all the time.  

                    I think "tolerate" is very different from "accept" and very different from saying it is OK.  There are also various definitions out there for what is "verbal abuse".  Many times I will post interactions with my wife here to get a reality check on what I am hearing/reading.  The point I was making is that pwBPD tend to have a long term ability to verbally abuse and not realize it.  This takes a long term solution.  If a neighbor calls me all kinds of names and there is not history of this ever having happened before, and then I find out that the neighbors parent just died.  There is no need for a solution here, it was a true "one of" event and I would strive to move past it.  I hope that clarifies what I was saying about verbal abuse.                    

FF

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Sam, Her actions don't sound respectful to me.  I was once a doormat for my BPDxW and I'm afraid your story Reminds me of a similar dynamic.  You seem to understand your situation rationally, but the realty seems different.  Time to check in with your gut feelings?

LuckyJim

[Samuel S.]

When I explained to my T about the cruel remarks my BPDw had made when I did not in any way, shape, or form have her react that way, my T said that not only were the remarks cruel, but it was also verbal abuse and manipulation. In fact, my T asked me if it was going on now. I said no, and she said that if that were the case, she would need to report it to the authorities. So, my BPDw's remarks were that cruel, that verbally abusive. In fact, she said that comments were unexcusable.

Lucky Jim, you are right that her actions don't sound respectful. In fact, she neglects the relationship. I find that to be ironic, because she misses her D who passed away over 16 years ago. She doesn't go to family functions. She admits that she immerses herself in her studies. She is the one who is in therapy for now well over 10 years and has not been able to realize that I have been here for her all along.

As for my gut feelings, I feel I am losing out. I gained so much understanding, joy, compassion from the outside world, which is ironic, because when my BPDw and I were first married for about the first 5 years, I gained so much understanding, joy, compassion from our relationship. Then, she changed, because she was talking and see the medium counselor who told her that she was living a fake life. I can understand people wanting to change their lives and finding their joy, and that's fine. Yet, when she goes to the extreme as she freely admits, she has no time for me. That's why I feel all alone here when she is here.

[GlennT]

It is important to understand where the need for control comes from with this disease. For most, there is the fear of further abuse or abandonment, whether it is based in reality from past trauma, or paranoid delusions about future abuse coming to them in the future. By controlling people and events in their orbit, they hope to get past and over the past trauma, that hurt them, when they were too helpless to control it, whether real or imagined, so it doesn't happen again. By controlling others, sadly, they invite further abuse to occur, by creating more turmoil in others lives also. It is important to realize this when dealing with BPD. This need for control will last their entire lives, until they realize the traumatic sources of their shame, abuse, and pain, and realize they can control these feelings without needing to recycle, and hurt others. There is nothing we can do, to appease their cycle of control and vulnerability. This is important to understand for us, so we do not enable them to keep repeating it. Do not allow them to guilt you, ever! Just leave them!

[Samuel S.]

GlennT, you are so right on about how their control issue is a big part of their disease due to their past. My BPDw likes to control the discussion and likes to confuse things; however, she will complain about others who can't make up their minds with their discussions and not being able to determine what they want to do.

Yesterday was my birthday. While on the outside, she was really nice. She prepared a nice dinner, gave me some gifts, and gave me a cake. Then, when our company left, she complained about how much work she had to do and that now, she can go back to what she really wanted to do. In turn, I said several times that I appreciated everything that she did, but she couldn't really hear that. Then, she kissed me good night and went into doing her own studies.

This reminds me of an incident about a year ago. It was our anniversary. I suggested that since she is so busy with her work and with her studies, that I bring a dinner to us from the outside. She couldn't make up her mind, but she eventually decided that she could take the time off to go to a restaurant with me. Prior to going out, she said that she "wanted to get it over with" so that she could continue studying. While the food was good, her attitude truly did bother me. Yes, it was a manner to control and to make it all about her while, in fact, it could have been a celebration.

Yes, GlennT, later on in life, she may learn how to control her own emotions, her own need to control, and her own vulnerabilities. Only then will she realize how it might have been "right" at the time; however, she will have missed out on the reason why she is on this Earth - to live, to grow, to connect, and to love.