BPDXW representing herself in court

[milo1967]

Hi, Everyone,

My BPDXW filed a lawsuit to have basically everything in our Final Judgment overturned: child support (she pays me), medical expenses, medical decision-making, coparenting schedule, drop-offs/pick-up locations, just everything. She (thus far) is representing herself. Our email negotiations have fallen apart (she will concede to nothing even though I have made very generous concessions) and we are likely heading to trial.

I have tons of documentation refuting incontrovertibly and systematically all her lies. And my attorney is very good.

My attorney believes she has a very weak case, but with judges you never know.

I'm looking for inspiring stories in which your ex crashed and burned in court because he/she went in pro se.

I'm cautiously optimistic, but she can put on quite an act.

Thank you in advance!

[Matt]

My wife and I both had attorneys and that kept her entitlement in check, somewhat.

But of course the attorneys ended up with all the money.

One thing to consider is whether you can get the court to award you legal fees.  If your ex's motion isn't backed up well, it might be considered frivolous, and if you can show the cost you are incurring to deal with it - mostly legal fees but also any other costs like travel or lost work days - it's possible the court might award those costs to you - make your ex reimburse you.

If not, nothing is lost, and at least your ex might thing twice about more costly games.

[ForeverDad]

If you divorced over a year ago then it's far too late for her to be seeking a reconsideration or appeal, those actions must be pursued soon after a court decision, usually measured in weeks and not longer than a month.

Many courts don't want to see a parent back again until at least a year has passed, which appears to be the case here.  If it affects something major, such as custody, then many courts call that process a Change in Circumstances.  Is that what this is?

It is generally up to the one wanting changes to prove his or her case to the court, just as you can do your best to disprove it.  On the other hand, many judges don't like one parent to win and the other loses.  So there is a risk that she may get some things she seeks.  That way she wins something and loses getting everything.  So... .have you strategized with your lawyer, if it reaches that point, which changes you could live with and also some changes you want that you'd be willing to trade for?

Remember that you are not obligated to honor prior offers.  Those were made with the goal of avoiding the expense, delays and risks of court.  So if she wants to 'keep' some portions of your prior offers — cherry picking — then don't be stressed over it, always consider those past offers as ended or expired.  No offer has to be kept on the table indefinitely.  Your lawyer should know that but I address this to you, you may feel emotionally Guilted or Obligated to honor them indefinitely.  When you walk into court such offers suffer a big reset.  You might eventually use some of them but don't feel pressured to preserve them just because she insists or demands.

This thought has been expressed many times here, mediation and settlement attempts almost always fail when you're early in the process.  While many if not most of us do end up reaching a settlement eventually, almost always it's at the last minute or just a day before a major event such as a hearing or testimony.

[Thunderstruck]

On the other hand, many judges don't like one parent to win and the other loses.  So there is a risk that she may get some things she seeks.  That way she wins something and loses getting everything.  So... .have you strategized with your lawyer, if it reaches that point, which changes you could live with and also some changes you want that you'd be willing to trade for?

This was our case.

uBPDbm is pro se. We (well, DH) have a L. We didn't have any sort of CO in place. uBPDbm filed a motion for child support. We had been paying child support, but it was not ordered so we calculated about how much it should be and gave her that every month. She thought she should be getting 5x more. Nothing in her motion mentioned timesharing.

We filed a motion for temp relief and holiday timesharing and a 50/50 schedule (2-2-3 schedule). Prior to that, the only thing uBPDbm had let us have was every weekend with SD, so this was a big improvement for us.

We won the schedule, won the child support (it ended up being even less than we were paying before) but lost the holiday schedule (the judge picked uBPDbm's proposal, I guess so it wouldn't be all stacked against her). But it was ok, we won the big stuff.

One big factor (imho) on why the judge ruled the way he did was that uBPDbm wouldn't cooperate with financial discovery, and then pretended to be such a poor little single mother. She called the state calculated child support that our L submitted a "slap in the face" and said there was no way she could raise a child on that amount  . She also kept trying to bring up things that "SD said", and when our L objected based on heresay she would blow up at the L for interrupting her. The judge had to explain to her twice that the L has the right to object even if she doesn't like it. In the end, our side was prepared and presented a good argument. She was uncooperative and the judge saw through her playing the victim.

[livednlearned]

My ex was pro se in court, and it worked out badly for him. And he is a lawyer. 

There was no one to check his thinking or reign in his behavior. Also, my ex began to target the judge with similar behavior to what I had experienced in the marriage. However, this took a series of court hearings to come out.

In some courts, I have heard that judges can be very lenient toward pro se litigants. Has your L given you any indication about the judge's bias one way or another?

If you ask for sanctions (a good idea), be sure to nail down details, like how long she has to pay, and whether or not there will be consequences if she fails to pay. You can't garnish legal fees. There may be ways to work it so that any time you owe her money, it gets deducted from how much she was sanctioned for, as an example. Chances are, she won't pay the legal fees without stonewalling, so you need to figure out where your leverage is and get it introduced into the order. That way, when and if you go to court to collect the sanctions, the judge doesn't waffle and waste your time dithering about how to discipline her.

Also, even if you don't get sanctions, if she doesn't comply, it can sometimes be useful as a way to signal to court that she doesn't comply with anything, anyone, ever. And that starts to raise red flags, not just for sanctions but everything else.

[Matt]

Also, even if you don't get sanctions, if she doesn't comply, it can sometimes be useful as a way to signal to court that she doesn't comply with anything, anyone, ever. And that starts to raise red flags, not just for sanctions but everything else.

Yes, and even if legal fees aren't awarded - which is what happened in my case - she will be on notice that it could happen if she continues to misbehave.

She may think that by not hiring a lawyer she won't have to pay legal fees, but if her actions cause you to incur legal costs, it's fair that she pay those.  And without some disincentive, she may - like many people with BPD - continue to create mischief through the legal system.

[milo1967]

Thank you, everyone, for your responses.

"Has your L given you any indication about the judge's bias one way or another?"

Not specifically in relation to pro se litigants, but she did say our judge can show some bias toward men--and has little patience for BS. If that's the case, I am somewhat hopeful.

I certainly have no real desire to go to court, but my XW--otherwise an entitled bully--is terrified of court (she finally signed our divorce papers literally outside the courtroom doors rather than be exposed at trial) so I believe that the only way to discourage her to pull this frivolous litigation in the future is show her that I have no problem going to court, where, at least in terms of factual information, I have massive documentation to refute each of her lies.

[Matt]

Thank you, everyone, for your responses.

"Has your L given you any indication about the judge's bias one way or another?"

Not specifically in relation to pro se litigants, but she did say our judge can show some bias toward men--and has little patience for BS. If that's the case, I am somewhat hopeful.

I certainly have no real desire to go to court, but my XW--otherwise an entitled bully--is terrified of court (she finally signed our divorce papers literally outside the courtroom doors rather than be exposed at trial) so I believe that the only way to discourage her to pull this frivolous litigation in the future is show her that I have no problem going to court, where, at least in terms of factual information, I have massive documentation to refute each of her lies.

So a strategy might be - this time and in the future if needed - just don't engage with her in any way - let her file what she files and see her (literally) in court.

If she knows that filing something means appearing before a judge and made to look foolish, she probably won't file stuff.

(Unfortunately some people like the drama of court, so appearing before a judge doesn't make them stop filing crazy stuff.)

[ForeverDad]

And if she does file and you do end up settling at the last minute, try not to have her gain from it.  That is, you don't want her to learn that she can blow a ton of spitwads at the teacher's blackboard any time she wants and count on eventually getting 'rewarded' to walk away with something at the last minute.  They're disordered but not necessarily dumb.

[Matt]

And if she does file and you do end up settling at the last minute, try not to have her gain from it.  That is, you don't want her to learn that she can blow a ton of spitwads at the teacher's blackboard any time she wants and count on eventually getting 'rewarded' to walk away with something at the last minute.  They're disordered but not necessarily dumb.

Yeah;  in fact since she is reluctant to appear before a judge, last-minute settlements should make your hand much stronger.

[milo1967]

Thank you for the latest replies. Yes, her "technique" is to wear you down and wear you down, chipping away at everything and anything she can, until I just throw up my hands and say "Fine, just take it." But once she sees that a firm boundary is set and crossing it means that she will be exposed, she gives up.

For example, during the divorce, she would not sign unless I gave her a tv. Fine. Once she got that, she would not sign unless I gave her my Lazy Boy chair. (Yes, it became that absurd.) I gave it to her. She thought she smelled weakness and so went for blood: she didn't want to pay me spousal support. That's when I drew the line and headed for trial. She signed.

[Matt]

Thank you for the latest replies. Yes, her "technique" is to wear you down and wear you down, chipping away at everything and anything she can, until I just throw up my hands and say "Fine, just take it." But once she sees that a firm boundary is set and crossing it means that she will be exposed, she gives up.

For example, during the divorce, she would not sign unless I gave her a tv. Fine. Once she got that, she would not sign unless I gave her my Lazy Boy chair. (Yes, it became that absurd.) I gave it to her. She thought she smelled weakness and so went for blood: she didn't want to pay me spousal support. That's when I drew the line and headed for trial. She signed.

There are a couple of negotiating techniques worth discussing... .

One is what your wife was (maybe unconsciously) doing:  "Nibbling".  It's where you have a deal... .but before signing you ask for just one more thing... .then maybe one more... .nibbling to make the deal just a little better for you... .and the other party gives you a little more and a little more.

The way to counter "nibbling" is by nibbling:  When she says, "I'll only sign if you give me the TV." you say, "Well I'll give you the TV if you give me the stereo."  Make your request proportional and reasonable, so if she says no she'll look unreasonable.

Make it clear that your offer to settle is "complete" and that any changes she wants to make will be offset by changes in your favor too.

Pretty soon she'll figure out that it's best to just sign.

[ugghh]

So a strategy might be - this time and in the future if needed - just don't engage with her in any way - let her file what she files and see her (literally) in court.

It took me several sessions with my attorney to learn this.  Since we are often unexperienced in the workings of the court system, we tend to panic every time the ex threatens something.  My attorney simply said, I am not going to waste your money responding to empty threats.  If she wants to file, let her file and then we will deal with the facts as stated.

[Matt]

So a strategy might be - this time and in the future if needed - just don't engage with her in any way - let her file what she files and see her (literally) in court.

It took me several sessions with my attorney to learn this.  Since we are often unexperienced in the workings of the court system, we tend to panic every time the ex threatens something.  My attorney simply said, I am not going to waste your money responding to empty threats.  If she wants to file, let her file and then we will deal with the facts as stated.

Good attorney.

Some would take your money, because they like taking your money, or because they don't have experience dealing with people like your ex.