Projection - he called me emotionally abusive and told me I need to "reconcile"

[unicorn2014]

Form flyer it keeps me who I want to be : somebody who tells the truth and it allows me to stay where I'm at: in a relationship that is very difficult . This is the staying board and this is about staying in the relationship. I can't improve it. My boyfriend has to do that by divorcing and relocating . I have to be able to tell the truth in order to stay in the relationship. The truth is my boyfriend is not divorced yet, and all that implies, which I don't spell out.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 in a relationship that is very difficult . This is the staying board and this is about staying in the relationship.  

         There is a disconnect here.  I'm not advising you at all to leave.  I am advising you that choosing a relationship that you don't want is not a prescription to be a successful stayer.  Being a good stayer is not about pretending to want something that you don't, I'm not advising this either.  So, again, why are you choosing a relationship that is nowhere close to the relationship that you have described that you want?  There needs to be an clear understanding on why you want to stay, before we can help you be a successful stayer.          

FF  

[chump]

Hi Unicorn (and my fellow posters), also taking kind of the big picture to your recent posts in their totality. As someone who has read regularly, but only posted here and there, I've been torn between trying to contribute something supportive and helpful, but also be honest about how some of the interactions you describe with your BF come across to me.

I'll admit that for me, and speaking only for myself, there's a "head scratching" quality to the twists and turns of these posts. But, it also seems like we are all at risk of falling into a JADE cycle with our replies, with emphasis on the "E" of explaining, or overexplaining.

Several times I let my mind wander and speculate, what if your BF actually complied with all of your requests (EXCEPT the big one, get divorced). All the behavioral things, don't talk about the future, don't talk about the past, don't use certain pet names, don't wear a ring... .and so on.  And if I'm remembering the details wrong, I apologize, but hopefully you get the idea. I wondered how you would feel if he just stopped doing each thing you asked him to stop doing, immediately, when you asked him to stop. I wondered how you would feel, what effect would that have on your conversations, etc? Would you keep adding to the list of things you wanted him to stop/change? Or would you feel satisfied.

So then you would have a relationship where he never called you cupcake or sweetie, he never talked about his hopes for a future with you, he never talked about his fond memories of when you two were happy together, he took off his ring, he only called you when you wanted him to, etc.  How would that feel for you?

I'm not sure I'm helping here, but hopefully without JADEing, what do you think?

Chump

[unicorn2014]

Form flier I stay because of what he promised me.

[unicorn2014]

Chump, I would feel satisfied as that would shine the spotlight on what really needs to change: his marital status and his location . It's easy to argue about the small stuff, it distracts from the big stuff.

He's assumed a familiarity with me he shouldn't have before he divorced and relocated.

[formflier]

 It's easy to argue about the small stuff, it distracts from the big stuff.    

         So, why get distracted from the big stuff?  You only have so much energy, spend it where it matters.          

FF

[formflier]

Form flier I stay because of what he promised me.  

         Which is ?(looking for one or two sentences)          

FF

[unicorn2014]

Form flier the big stuff is the divorce and relocation . The promises are remarriage in my faith, a house big enough for the three of us, a pet (they're not allowed in my apartment) support so I can focus on my painting, a garden, travel, help with my daughter. We even talked about having a child.

[flourdust]

Form flier the big stuff is the divorce and relocation . The promises are remarriage in my faith, a house big enough for the three of us, a pet (they're not allowed in my apartment) support so I can focus on my painting, a garden, travel, help with my daughter. We even talked about having a child.

This sounds like a fantasy lifestyle that you want him to provide for you. Let me ask you to strip that away and think about the relationship.

Imagine this scenario -- he gets divorced and moves out to be with you. The divorce guts him financially, and his resources are destroyed. You're able to get married to him, but there is no house, no pet, no support for your artist lifestyle, no garden, no travel. You get him. What do you envision when you see this scenario? Does it make you happy?

[unicorn2014]

Flour dust he promised those things. That's not my wish list. I'm not responsible for the things he said to me. Artist lifestyle? He makes his living as a musician, so there is no artists lifestyle. That was  his way of life before he met me, hence the attraction in the first place. He wants to create that way of life here for me in my area and he got me to believe in him and I haven't given up yet. I'm talking about developing a profession as an artist, something I started as a teen and then gave up on. He wants to restore me to the path I was on and see me use my talent. I'm not talking about a lifestyle.

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This whole thread started because I was thinking about something skip said to me about devaluing my boyfriend and it reminded me of when my boyfriend used to say the same thing and I had to talk to my therapist about it. That's a hot button issue for me.

[formflier]

Form flier the big stuff is the divorce and relocation . The promises are remarriage in my faith, a house big enough for the three of us, a pet (they're not allowed in my apartment) support so I can focus on my painting, a garden, travel, help with my daughter. We even talked about having a child.

         This is your choice.  You have chosen to be in a relationship that is not like the relationship you want, because your SO has promised you the above items, and we have the results of three years of effort by your SO towards the above promises.    There is a big disconnect here, honestly, I can't in good conscience say that any amount of reading lessons, taking space, hanging up or not hanging up, being called sweetie or not is going to solve the disconnect.          

FF

[formflier]

  This whole thread started because I was thinking about something skip said to me about devaluing my boyfriend and it reminded me of when my boyfriend used to say the same thing and I had to talk to my therapist about it. That's a hot button issue for me.

         All of these hot buttons are distracting from this MASSIVE ELEPHANT in the room.           

FF

[unicorn2014]

FF actually my partner has started me out on my painting career, I have been painting for 2 years because of him. He provided the supplies and he paid for the classes.

Another thing he's done for me is support my fitness goals by buying me running shoes, running bras, running socks, a fitness tracker.

He has done a lot to support my goals.

He paid for me to take parenting apart classes so I could learn how to deal with my ex.

I am being patient with him because I believe in what he promised me and even when I meet new men they don't hold the same appeal.

I'm trying really hard to get to the acceptance that skip was talking about. For me telling the truth about my boyfriends absence is part of the journey to that acceptance.

I will see if I can pull skips quote about my three choices from my previous thread and post it here.

[flourdust]

Flour dust he promised those things. That's not my wish list. I'm not responsible for the things he said to me.

But just a few messages ago, Formflier asked why you stay in the relationship, and you responded "Form flier I stay because of what he promised me." And then proceeded to list all those things. Are you being honest with yourself? In the space of just a few messages, you said you are staying because you want what he promised you, then flipped it and said it's not your wish list. You can't have it both ways.

[unicorn2014]

Flour dust, I didn't tell him what I wanted, he had those things where he lived and he said he would bring those things to me.

I was living a life of deprivation when I met him and I had just accepted that's how things were going to be. He changed all that for me.

He is a good life partner for me if he can divorce and relocate and that is what I am waiting for. If he can't do that by the time my daughter graduates from high school then I will make other plans .

Of course I am being honest with myself. Do I seem like the kind of person who wouldn't be?

---

Not Wendy had a good point about not defending myself if things didn't apply . I think what my partner considered me devaluing him might have been me stating my values, which I learned are boundaries on BPD family. When people suggest I'm devaluing , or throwing grenades, or not being honest with myself, it's hard not to get defensive .

[formflier]

  He is a good life partner for me if he can divorce and relocate and that is what I am waiting for. If he can't do that by the time my daughter graduates from high school then I will make other plans .  

         What I don't understand is why choose to be in a relationship with an unavailable guy that has made no progress in three years to satisfy your big IF.  Especially when that guy provides (right now) the type of r/s that you have said you don't want.  So, in 2.5 years, if he is not divorced, you will have put 5.5 years into a r/s that is not what you want, while waiting for it come become what you want.  I just can't wrap my head around it.          

FF    

[unicorn2014]

For flyer by stating the truth about my relationship I'm turning it into the kind of relationship I want it to be. He is available for everything but marriage , as others have pointed out.

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The behavior you find reprehensible , telling the truth about why my boyfriend isn't here, is actually healing me. It is allowing me to own my choices and feel comfortable in my skin. I think most people I've told didn't think I was the kind of girl to get in that kind of relationship or that he was that kind of man. Some people understand his marriage is just a formality.

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The reason I said when my daughter graduates is that when I will be switching gears. Finding a new life partner is not high on my priority list right now.

[flourdust]

Of course I am being honest with myself. Do I seem like the kind of person who wouldn't be?

I don't know you OR your partner. I don't want to judge you. All we can see here is how you present yourself through messages, and how you describe your partner.

What I've seen from reading your messages over the past few months is a person on a very difficult journey toward reconciling herself with some uncomfortable and unpleasant truths about her relationship. I suspect that journey is not over, as many of the responses you receive are describing what seem to be truths that you're not yet willing to accept. It can take time -- a lot of time -- to process all of this and the related feelings of shame, fear, distrust, anger, and loss.

Let me try to ask my question another way. I'm not trying to attack you, and you don't need to defend or re-explain your position to me. You don't need to convince ME of anything, because your life choices won't affect me. I just ask that you think about this a bit, if it's not too uncomfortable to do so.

Flour dust, I didn't tell him what I wanted, he had those things where he lived and he said he would bring those things to me. I was living a life of deprivation when I met him and I had just accepted that's how things were going to be. He changed all that for me.

He is a good life partner for me if he can divorce and relocate and that is what I am waiting for.

Here's my question: is he still a good life partner for you if he DOESN'T brings those things to you? If he just brings himself, personality problems and all, but none of the financial support that would change the other aspects of your life?

[unicorn2014]

Flour dust, I am very sorry I have somehow misrepresented myself on this board. I don't know how to change that.

Nowhere did I say I was in this relationship for financial support. That is not why I was attracted to him, I had no idea he would help me financially.

You missed the important piece of the puzzle. I believe you called it an "artistic lifestyle."

I was drawn to my partner because of what he does for a living, not because of the money he makes.

My problem is I was  disillusioned from my own divorce years ago when I met him, which is how I was able to not to reject him when I found out he was married. However when I found out his divorce wasn't filed, that's when I had a problem.

I think what is happening on the board is a lot of people's filters are coming into play, for example when katecat had a vision of me being an ex housewife who had no means of supporting herself out in the world, or your vision of me being financially dependent on my partner.

I think notwendy really hit the nail on the head of this topic which is don't listen if it doesn't apply (being accused of devaluing). That's what this topic was about, and it wasn't even about my partner, it was about Skip saying I was engaging in a borderline behavior.

Realizing that someone wasn't doing what they said they were doing and having your feelings change about them is not devaluing them, it is realizing they are not as valuable to you as they made themselves out to be.

*****

I should add that since my partner has had to solely support himself on his music now instead of also his business, he is not currently giving me any financial support at all and I am still with him. I am self supporting. Perhaps I had not made that clear. My budget is tight but I make it work.

[formflier]

  You didn't answer flourdusts question.  I don't see flourdust asking for an explanation of how and why you were attracted to him (the past).     The divorce goes through, he shows up with nothing left and wants to rebuild a life with you.  You reaction to that is?  (I think that is a summation of the question)          

FF

[unicorn2014]

You didn't answer flourdusts question.

I don't see flourdust asking for an explanation of how and why you were attracted to him (the past).  


The divorce goes through, he shows up with nothing left and wants to rebuild a life with you.  You reaction to that is?  (I think that is a summation of the question)

FF

Formflier, see what I just modified: since my partner no longer has his business and is currently supporting himself on his music, he is not financially  supporting me at all and I am still with him. I am self supporting. I didn't have a budget in November which is why I had problems. I drew one up for December, and will have one going forward. Remember, I created and managed a home based business for my ex husband. I taught myself accounting and bookkeeping and ran the business for 3 years before I got sick of the way my ex husband did things and closed the business. My current  budget is tight but I make ends meet. I am not with my partner for financial support. Can we all come to an understanding on that so that we can move forward?

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I started this topic because Skip described me as engaging in a borderline behavior, devaluing, that my partner used to describe me as in engaging in. If he's said that recently its fallen on deaf ears because I know I don't do that, but when the site director of BPD family says it, well, that gets my attention.

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I am with my partner because I enjoy his companionship, despite all the nonsense and drama and problems.

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My partner helped me rebuild my life after years of not getting child support wiped me out as I was solely supporting my daughter. That has also changed through my patience with the legal process. All the things my partner provided me were things i had that worn out that needed replacing that i couldn't replace.

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I find flour dust's question offensive. I have been independent since I was 18, my life has been hard. My partner would be the first to tell you that. He's actually had to ask me many times if I want his help. He really had to earn my trust in order for me to accept his help. That's what makes me so upset when I see I have misrepresented myself so badly on this board. Its actually embarrassing. My partner could raise the quality of my life, but I don't need him, and he would be the first to tell you that. I think he might have wanted me to need him in the past, but I changed all that, if that's the case.

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I think if the board is going to be able to help me moving forward I have to change two perceptions about myself: one, that I don't engage in borderline behavior and two, that I am not with my partner for financial support. If people have the wrong perception about me they're not going to be able to give me the right advice.

[chump]

That's what this topic was about, and it wasn't even about my partner, it was about Skip saying I was engaging in a borderline behavior.

Pretty sure that wasn't what Skip said, but I'll leave it to him to clarify if he chooses to.

[unicorn2014]

That's what this topic was about, and it wasn't even about my partner, it was about Skip saying I was engaging in a borderline behavior.

Pretty sure that wasn't what Skip said, but I'll leave it to him to clarify if he chooses to.

No he didn't but I know that idealization and devaluation is a borderline behavior. He didn't say "unicorn you are engaging in a borderline behavior". I get sensitive when people say I'm acting in a borderline manner. Then i start thinking about what others have said about me being enmeshed with my partner and then I feel like now I'm starting to get blamed for his disorder.

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Did it ever occur to people that if someone idealizes you that it might be a defense mechanism to "devalue" them, before the horrible "devaluing" or "painting black" occurs. Remember my partner had a dysregulation so bad months ago that he called his therapist and I thought about calling the police. That hasn't happened since.

[formflier]

  So, to be clear here, you are or are not staying with him because he is going to get you a home in the future and do other things that will take resources for him to do.  Earlier in this thread you said this  

Form flier the big stuff is the divorce and relocation . The promises are remarriage in my faith, a house big enough for the three of us, a pet (they're not allowed in my apartment) support so I can focus on my painting, a garden, travel, help with my daughter. We even talked about having a child.

         Now it seems you are saying that you are not with him because of promises of support.    What I need help understanding is how your view of your reasons for staying in the relationship change so much in just over 12 hours.    There are a lot of people that are interested in helping you.  This includes me.  I think you are starting to see that there is a better way  I am having a hard time keeping up with you and I believe others are as well when what you define as "the problem" and what you want changes so much and in such a short period of time.  Can you fill us in on what changed from yesterday evening until now that has changed your view on the r/s?  Many people want to help you, but I believe we are being ineffective because there is a disconnect.  I'm trying to figure out what that is.        

FF

[unicorn2014]

Formflier I answered your question as to why did I want to marry him, that is different from why am I with him today. I am with him today because I enjoy his companionship, he is not financially supporting me at all today. He did help me in the past because I so thoroughly depleted my own resources to support my daughter because her father was not. That changed.

In terms of why I want to marry him? Sure, I like his vision of married life, however I would not give up my independence until he was able to provide what he said he would.

If he's able to deliver what he said, then my second marriage would be far more enjoyable then my first.

Furthermore I actually like his personality, I've been with other creative men but they were too soft for me. I like my partner's edge, and now that he's on the right dose of his medication, he doesn't dysregulate anymore.

One of the things I need help with today is knowing what to ignore and what to pay attention to.

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Modified to add I think asking why I want to be with him is a good question as it is in line with the lessons and I've asked myself that many times. Remember there are two questions: why am I with him today, and why do I want to marry him, hence the reason for the two answers. I did not know that I had misrepresented myself so badly and that's why people were responding to me the way they were.

[formflier]

   If he's able to deliver what he said, then my second marriage would be far more enjoyable then my first.  

         This is what people (and me) are picking up on.  Your enjoyment is based on what he can deliver.  If you look at your life from a boundaries point of view, letting someone else determine your enjoyment or sadness, or other emotions, is not a good way to work through things.          

FF

[formflier]

Formflier I answered your question as to why did I want to marry him, that is different from why am I with him today. I am with him today because I enjoy his companionship, he is not financially supporting me at all today.      I did not know that I had misrepresented myself so badly and that's why people were responding to me the way they were.  

         Perhaps misrepresentation and constant shifting of topics or "the problem" are related.     Let's be clear.  Below is your response to why you stay.  You can look above to your response as to why you are with him today.  It's the same question.  Why are you with him now?  The answers are dramatically different.    What happened since yesterday to change your answer?  

 Quote from: unicorn2014 on Yesterday at 07:28:22 PM Form flier I stay because of what he promised me.   Which is ?(looking for one or two sentences)          

FF

       

[unicorn2014]

Form flier I know this topic is going to close soon so when it does I will start a new one as to why I am in the relationship.

When I say enjoyment I mean it won't be filled with the financial and emotional hardships that my first marriage was. I am specifically talking about my enjoyment of marriage not my enjoyment of life. I know that part is my responsibility and is beyond the scope of this board.

I didn't change my answer, to me it is two separate questions. One is why is he my boyfriend today and two is why I want to marry him in the future.

I know the purpose of this board is to help me improve my relationship.

I can also talk about what happened this morning, about how I feel he was trying to start an argument with me. That would be a second topic I could start.

[formflier]

  I didn't change my answer, to me it is two separate questions. One is why is he my boyfriend today and two is why I want to marry him in the future.    

         Perhaps it is three questions.  Is why you stay a different question?  That is what was answered in the thread.  You stay because of what he promised to do for you.  Has that answer changed since yesterday?          

FF

[unicorn2014]

 Form flier we are at 7 pages and I'm afraid we're going to get cut off.

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I was thinking about this and I also stay because he is emotionally supportive.

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The answer hasn't changed but my understanding of it has based on feedback from the board.