I feel she is BPD and wonder if I should get out now..

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I recently started seeing a new girl  We are about 3 months in...

She came on super strong at the beginning, wanting to see me daily. Love bombing... .I am the most amazing, I smell amazing, look amazing, content hugs, kisses, sex affection...

Then one day we had plans, and she tell me "i cant, I have to drop off food and money to my ex bf"  Turns out she "broke up" with her ex of 4 years about 10 months ago...  She said he hit her, does drugs, but she CANNOT TURN HER BACK ON HIM, and must continue to see him, help him etc... Basically she works two jobs to pay her bills AND his bills. She claims he will die if she turns her back, but it is not romantic...

I try to understand this, but it always bothers me.  We continue to see each other, but she is constantly stressed due to being broke... .From time to time I ended up helping her so she has gas money and food... She is also always stressed about "her ex" being homeless, or not having money etc. There is apparently no goal, or no end in sight with her helping her ex either...  I then also found out that she says they "lay around and hug", which I just found out... Before she made it sound like she only gives him some food and money.

She also told me since her break up all her relationships since were wonderful for 3 weeks, then the man disappears... (playing the victim?)... And that all the other men gave her an ultimatum, either "him or me"... But she says I am different, and she never liked anyone as much...

She is also anorexic. marathon runner, doesn't eat, feels she is fat... Works out religiously.

As for me and her, when together, chemistry is amazing... .Non stop laughing, touching, joking, etc... She is very intelligent, hard working, and seemingly caring of her family members...

But after 3 months, and seeing each other 30 times, it is a constant push and pull... 2 examples stand out...

1.  I ask her to do something on the weekend... .She takes 10 hours to answer via text...  Then ignores my question... I don't reply... .Then she texts again how she is so busy, can't etc. (after telling me all week how she cant wait to see me)... So I ignore this text as well for a few days...  3 days later she tells me she misses me, will change, cant wait to see me, and see's me the next day...

2.  She breaks plans with me on a friday night with a lame excuse...  I tell her I don't have time for this... .She asks if I am seeing others. I give a vague response. She then immediately asks if she can spend the night... (Now she wants to see me as I might be seeing someone else?)

3. I had to leave town for a few days... .She is in fear i will leave town and meet someone else... (makes no sense as I went to see family)  She insists on seeing me night before I leave, and night when I come back... .

basically she will only see me when SHE suggests it... if I try to make a plan, she flakes, makes an excuse, becomes distant etc... .Which causes me to lose interest, at which point she desperately needs to see me...

For as close as we are when together, I know little about her... .I can't make a plan with her... I cant express any feelings or she runs... It is only when I avoid her that she then wants me...

What would work at this point? Send her an email explaining my thoughts?  Just slowly continue seeing her once a week and playing this on and off game?  Cut all ties until maybe she will change? (seems unlikely)

[richardson]

I recently started seeing a new girl  We are about 3 months in...

She came on super strong at the beginning, wanting to see me daily. Love bombing... .I am the most amazing, I smell amazing, look amazing, content hugs, kisses, sex affection...

Then one day we had plans, and she tell me "i cant, I have to drop off food and money to my ex bf"  Turns out she "broke up" with her ex of 4 years about 10 months ago...  She said he hit her, does drugs, but she CANNOT TURN HER BACK ON HIM, and must continue to see him, help him etc... Basically she works two jobs to pay her bills AND his bills. She claims he will die if she turns her back, but it is not romantic...

I try to understand this, but it always bothers me.  We continue to see each other, but she is constantly stressed due to being broke... .From time to time I ended up helping her so she has gas money and food... She is also always stressed about "her ex" being homeless, or not having money etc. There is apparently no goal, or no end in sight with her helping her ex either...  I then also found out that she says they "lay around and hug", which I just found out... Before she made it sound like she only gives him some food and money.

She also told me since her break up all her relationships since were wonderful for 3 weeks, then the man disappears... (playing the victim?)... And that all the other men gave her an ultimatum, either "him or me"... But she says I am different, and she never liked anyone as much...

She is also anorexic. marathon runner, doesn't eat, feels she is fat... Works out religiously.

As for me and her, when together, chemistry is amazing... .Non stop laughing, touching, joking, etc... She is very intelligent, hard working, and seemingly caring of her family members...

But after 3 months, and seeing each other 30 times, it is a constant push and pull... 2 examples stand out...

1.  I ask her to do something on the weekend... .She takes 10 hours to answer via text...  Then ignores my question... I don't reply... .Then she texts again how she is so busy, can't etc. (after telling me all week how she cant wait to see me)... So I ignore this text as well for a few days...  3 days later she tells me she misses me, will change, cant wait to see me, and see's me the next day...

2.  She breaks plans with me on a friday night with a lame excuse...  I tell her I don't have time for this... .She asks if I am seeing others. I give a vague response. She then immediately asks if she can spend the night... (Now she wants to see me as I might be seeing someone else?)

3. I had to leave town for a few days... .She is in fear i will leave town and meet someone else... (makes no sense as I went to see family)  She insists on seeing me night before I leave, and night when I come back... .

basically she will only see me when SHE suggests it... if I try to make a plan, she flakes, makes an excuse, becomes distant etc... .Which causes me to lose interest, at which point she desperately needs to see me...

For as close as we are when together, I know little about her... .I can't make a plan with her... I cant express any feelings or she runs... It is only when I avoid her that she then wants me...

What would work at this point? Send her an email explaining my thoughts?  Just slowly continue seeing her once a week and playing this on and off game?  Cut all ties until maybe she will change? (seems unlikely)

[hashtag_loyal]

Only you can decide what you truly want to do here, but it does sound like you have her figured out. I know there are a lot of members on this site who wished they had such clarity in their partner at only the 3-month mark.

My advice (and one thing you will hear a lot on here) is to go with your gut.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Richardson, thx for your post and sorry you are going thru it.  I absolutely SWEAR I could have written all that you shared.  Well, minus the anorexia part. 

I will share my experience.  At day EIGHT, I told my UxBPDbf that it felt hard and that out of 8 days 4 had been hard.  I should have walked right that second.  I didn't.  He said he thought 4 good days out of 8 was great and we were learning how to communicate.  Silly me.  I accepted his version of my experience and continued to do so for 8 months.  MANY times I wanted out.  He was such a mess and such a smooth, smart and articulate man (who gave me amazing orgasms along with a very rosy image of the future) that I let him continue to talk me into HIS version of MY experience.  That was a very bad idea. 

By the end, I felt brainwashed.  I had given him $4K (approx 10% of my incone) little by little and felt trapped. He told me SO many lies.  When I'd call him on them he'd tell me he was "not going to explain  something I couldn't understand."

It was one crisis after crisis, lots of unavailability, lots of rage and "go f*c yourself," mixed in with abt 30% great conversation/laughter/intense & amazing orgasms.  When I finally walked , he began stalking & harassing me for the past year.  Which has been WAY HARDER than the difficult r/s which preceded it.  My daughter, who never met him, has tremendous PTSD from the stalking. 

I so very much wish I had walked when my radar first went off.  The sooner I walked the less damage I would have suffered.  My life, my daughter's life, my extended family's life, and my bank account would be in much better shape.

I subjected myself to lots of emotional abuse.  I am a confident, capable, assertive woman.  I am confounded by how I got in it and STAYED in it for 8 months.  Thru out that time I continually withdrew more and more (thank God) but so much damage was done.

To him too.   My efforts to help him did not help.  Leaving him sooner would have been better for him too. 

Considering all that you wrote, how many of the things listed are good reasons to stay?  If you do a factual/rational cost/benefit analysis, what is the outcome?  I know r/s' s are inherently emotional, but I am now thinking that in good relationships the rational AND the emotional line up.  Instead of being diametrically opposed.  Doesn't seem we should have to choose one or the other. 

Just my 2 cents since you are on the undecided board. 

Wishing you the very best. 

[richardson]

Richardson, thx for your post and sorry you are going thru it.  I absolutely SWEAR I could have written all that you shared.  Well, minus the anorexia part. 

I will share my experience.  At day EIGHT, I told my UxBPDbf that it felt hard and that out of 8 days 4 had been hard.  I should have walked right that second.  I didn't.  He said he thought 4 good days out of 8 was great and we were learning how to communicate.  Silly me.  I accepted his version of my experience and continued to do so for 8 months.  MANY times I wanted out.  He was such a mess and such a smooth, smart and articulate man (who gave me amazing orgasms along with a very rosy image of the future) that I let him continue to talk me into HIS version of MY experience.  That was a very bad idea. 

By the end, I felt brainwashed.  I had given him $4K (approx 10% of my incone) little by little and felt trapped. He told me SO many lies.  When I'd call him on them he'd tell me he was "not going to explain  something I couldn't understand."

It was one crisis after crisis, lots of unavailability, lots of rage and "go f*c yourself," mixed in with abt 30% great conversation/laughter/intense & amazing orgasms.  When I finally walked , he began stalking & harassing me for the past year.  Which has been WAY HARDER than the difficult r/s which preceded it.  My daughter, who never met him, has tremendous PTSD from the stalking. 

I so very much wish I had walked when my radar first went off.  The sooner I walked the less damage I would have suffered.  My life, my daughter's life, my extended family's life, and my bank account would be in much better shape.

I subjected myself to lots of emotional abuse.  I am a confident, capable, assertive woman.  I am confounded by how I got in it and STAYED in it for 8 months.  Thru out that time I continually withdrew more and more (thank God) but so much damage was done.

To him too.   My efforts to help him did not help.  Leaving him sooner would have been better for him too. 

Considering all that you wrote, how many of the things listed are good reasons to stay?  If you do a factual/rational cost/benefit analysis, what is the outcome?  I know r/s' s are inherently emotional, but I am now thinking that in good relationships the rational AND the emotional line up.  Instead of being diametrically opposed.  Doesn't seem we should have to choose one or the other. 

Just my 2 cents since you are on the undecided board. 

Wishing you the very best. 

Well, being a guy I have noticed many women are sort of like this at the beginning of the relationship... .I mean being unsure/flaking etc...

But as for the ex bf, I don't understand that... .I don't really know if this will ever go anywhere past hooking up, proclaiming love, and then basically nothing deeper...

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Richardson, You have encountered the rare push me-pull you animal from Dr. Doolittle stories (and movie).

Only you can determine when and if it's time to get off the roller coaster.

LuckyJim

[apollotech]

Hey Richardson, You have encountered the rare push me-pull you animal from Dr. Doolittle stories (and movie).

Only you can determine when and if it's time to get off the roller coaster.

LuckyJim

Yes, my thoughts as well Lucky Jim. It definitely appears like richardson is triggering engulfment and abandonment in her.

[richardson]

Hey Richardson, You have encountered the rare push me-pull you animal from Dr. Doolittle stories (and movie).

Only you can determine when and if it's time to get off the roller coaster.

LuckyJim

Yes, my thoughts as well Lucky Jim. It definitely appears like richardson is triggering engulfment and abandonment in her.

It is seemingly impossible to get a clear answer and clear actions.

So she came over and we talked.   I basically told her I am seeking something exclusive and if it isn't for her then we can basically go out separate ways.  She told me she is "not ready to date" (I guess talking daily, and sex constantly , and going out is not dating?), so I said ok that's fine.   Which led us somehow to having sex. She then asked me if "I would date her". I said that's what I have been asking, and she was smiling but said nothing.

The next day I sent her messages outlining what I need in a relationship (after she was texting me like nothing happened) and said she would get back to me tomorrow am.   That night, instead of answering my messages, she was texting me how she wishes she was with me (was at a work party instead and sent me photos), how she missed me etc.  but still never addressed my questions.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

That night, instead of answering my messages, she was texting me how she wishes she was with me (was at a work party instead and sent me photos), how she missed me etc.  but still never addressed my questions.

"No answer" is an answer!

[richardson]

That night, instead of answering my messages, she was texting me how she wishes she was with me (was at a work party instead and sent me photos), how she missed me etc.  but still never addressed my questions.

"No answer" is an answer!

I gues it threw me off when she started texting me that she misses me last night. And wants to see me. Regardless I should have an answer today.  Or move on.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Regardless I should have an answer today.

Or, you already have HER answer. 

The answer you await is likely YOUR answer:  knowing what you already know about her, what do you want to do?  Stay?  Move on? 

Just be sure to base your answer on her behavior and not her words. 

[hashtag_loyal]

It is seemingly impossible to get a clear answer and clear actions.

You appear to be ahead of the game, figuring things out that took many members on this site months to learn.

My advice is to either get used to it or to get out while it's still easy.

[richardson]

It is seemingly impossible to get a clear answer and clear actions.

You appear to be ahead of the game, figuring things out that took many members on this site months to learn.

My advice is to either get used to it or to get out while it's still easy.

So she texted me that she wants to see me, won't see anyone else, doesn't want to date, but I can date and if I meet someone else she understands.

[Lucky Jim]

Agree, hashtag, though for many of us, including me, it took many years in the BPD soup to reach this point!  LuckyJim

[Concerns]

"So she came over and we talked.   I basically told her I am seeking something exclusive and if it isn't for her then we can basically go out separate ways.  She told me she is "not ready to date" (I guess talking daily, and sex constantly , and going out is not dating?), so I said ok that's fine.   Which led us somehow to having sex. She then asked me if "I would date her". I said that's what I have been asking, and she was smiling but said nothing."

The silent smile hook. That's what I call it. It is a trick to send you mixed signals. She is smiling and non-verbally telling you that she wants to date you. The silence is the lie exposed. She wants to know that you want her but she doesn't really want a relationship with you. She has tricked you into supplying her with positive energy that she can feed off of. Your confusion is evidence that this is a manipulation. The sex is another trick for her to feed off you. She states she is not ready to date. She isn't. She wants to be wanted and while this could generally be a normal response from a woman, it's not. This interaction is feeding her low self-esteem/worth/tragedy scars. It is not a courting coyness from a budding loving relationship. After you had sex, she got low again/was feeling guilty and had to validate her low worth by asking "would you date her". The problem with this is she isn't actually engaging you in a relationship even though it feels like it. I would venture to say that she isn't thinking of you at all. She is only concerned with herself and you should find an exit. 

[richardson]

"So she came over and we talked.   I basically told her I am seeking something exclusive and if it isn't for her then we can basically go out separate ways.  She told me she is "not ready to date" (I guess talking daily, and sex constantly , and going out is not dating?), so I said ok that's fine.   Which led us somehow to having sex. She then asked me if "I would date her". I said that's what I have been asking, and she was smiling but said nothing."

The silent smile hook. That's what I call it. It is a trick to send you mixed signals. She is smiling and non-verbally telling you that she wants to date you. The silence is the lie exposed. She wants to know that you want her but she doesn't really want a relationship with you. She has tricked you into supplying her with positive energy that she can feed off of. Your confusion is evidence that this is a manipulation. The sex is another trick for her to feed off you. She states she is not ready to date. She isn't. She wants to be wanted and while this could generally be a normal response from a woman, it's not. This interaction is feeding her low self-esteem/worth/tragedy scars. It is not a courting coyness from a budding loving relationship. After you had sex, she got low again/was feeling guilty and had to validate her low worth by asking "would you date her". The problem with this is she isn't actually engaging you in a relationship even though it feels like it. I would venture to say that she isn't thinking of you at all. She is only concerned with herself and you should find an exit.  

The part I also find odd is this. She told me she is very jealous.  However now she is telling me I can date others.  But she will keep seeing me, having sex with me etc. She said she doesn't want to see anyone else and doesn't have time.


I mean usually these types are pretty jealous(going through your phone. Asking questions) etc. Even if they don't like you at all or just want some validation.

[Tomzxz]

Sorry, but this sounds scary close to a girl I dated over the summer.  She too was still in contact with an ex from three years ago. The poor guy was in and out of drug rehab... .after living with her for three years I can see why!  Your girl's name doesn't by chance start with a K does it?   Instant connection, early dating intensity followed by lethargic behavior. Push pull, love bombing - avoidance, depression and anxiety.  I know what you are experiencing and K had some additional skeletons in her closet... .Body dysmorphia, a bipolar - suicidal sister, Queen/witch mother and codependent dad... .It's complete BS and you CAN do better.  Run away and keep looking for a healthy secure woman, not a broken avoidant girl.


I could keep her interested as long as I treated her poorly. We broke up after three months due to a lot of other incompatibility issues. She went to Vegas with some dirt bag. We got back together after a month of NC, then she took me for granted the nicer I was to her.  Found out she was seeing someone else the last few weeks.  I didn't really care though, I look at the whole experience as my one and only experiment with a 6ft tall perfect 10.  Not worth it imo.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but I think you already know the answer if you posted the question here. 

I know - it sucks.

[richardson]

Sorry, but this sounds scary close to a girl I dated over the summer.  She too was still in contact with an ex from three years ago. The poor guy was in and out of drug rehab... .after living with her for three years I can see why!  Your girl's name doesn't by chance start with a K does it?   Instant connection, early dating intensity followed by lethargic behavior. Push pull, love bombing - avoidance, depression and anxiety.  I know what you are experiencing and K had some additional skeletons in her closet... .Body dysmorphia, a bipolar - suicidal sister, Queen/witch mother and codependent dad... .It's complete BS and you CAN do better.  Run away and keep looking for a healthy secure woman, not a broken avoidant girl.


I could keep her interested as long as I treated her poorly. We broke up after three months due to a lot of other incompatibility issues. She went to Vegas with some dirt bag. We got back together after a month of NC, then she took me for granted the nicer I was to her.  Found out she was seeing someone else the last few weeks.  I didn't really care though, I look at the whole experience as my one and only experiment with a 6ft tall perfect 10.  Not worth it imo.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but I think you already know the answer if you posted the question here.  

I know - it sucks.

Different girl but this one also has anxiety it seems.  Also she CANNOT take a compliment.  She will send me a photo of herself from time to time.   So what am I supposed to say?  It seems if I give a compliment it pushes her away.  I mean she is insecure.  So should I not say anything nice and put her down to keep her interested?  Just seems odd but yes, she does need to be ignored it seems to get her interested.

[Lucky Jim]

So she texted me that she wants to see me, won't see anyone else, doesn't want to date, but I can date and if I meet someone else she understands.

This sounds like a guilt trip to me, all part of the F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt) that those w/BPD use to manipulate us Nons.  Suggest you disregard and decide what it is that you really want to see happen.

LuckyJim

[ReclaimingMyLife]

It seems if I give a compliment it pushes her away.  I mean she is insecure.  So should I not say anything nice and put her down to keep her interested?  Just seems odd but yes, she does need to be ignored it seems to get her interested.

Is this really the kind of woman you want?     

[richardson]

Sorry, but this sounds scary close to a girl I dated over the summer.  She too was still in contact with an ex from three years ago. The poor guy was in and out of drug rehab... .after living with her for three years I can see why!  Your girl's name doesn't by chance start with a K does it?   Instant connection, early dating intensity followed by lethargic behavior. Push pull, love bombing - avoidance, depression and anxiety.  I know what you are experiencing and K had some additional skeletons in her closet... .Body dysmorphia, a bipolar - suicidal sister, Queen/witch mother and codependent dad... .It's complete BS and you CAN do better.  Run away and keep looking for a healthy secure woman, not a broken avoidant girl.


I could keep her interested as long as I treated her poorly. We broke up after three months due to a lot of other incompatibility issues. She went to Vegas with some dirt bag. We got back together after a month of NC, then she took me for granted the nicer I was to her.  Found out she was seeing someone else the last few weeks.  I didn't really care though, I look at the whole experience as my one and only experiment with a 6ft tall perfect 10.  Not worth it imo.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but I think you already know the answer if you posted the question here. 

I know - it sucks.

Well I cant take it anymore. It is all too odd...

Last time we saw each other was last Monday... .  Tuesday she was texting she misses me... Wednesday she misses me...   Then things turned odd...

I had a doctor appt, and she only asks if "the nurse was hot"... I am thinking she is joking, so I joke around in a ridiculous manner, saying the nurse was hugging me while I filled out papers... (Who would believe that?)  So she stops texting for 5 hours... .

Next morning she texts me she saw a super hot guy at the gas station that looks exactly like me, and he was staring at her ass the entire time...   (First time she tried to make me jealous)

Later that night she texts "I am on the way home from work... Do you need anything?"  I text back "yes" that minute... She then texts back that she didn't think i would say yes, and she already passed my house... .Maybe the nurse can bring me something... .

Next night she misses me and asks to see me Monday after work... We make plans... .(I had my son this weekend)

So at this point it has been 8 days since we are together...   She asked to see me tonight and said I am so awesome and she just cant wait... Told me everyday how she misses me... .And one hour before she is supposed to be here she texts "Can we do maybe another day?Not feeling today and my stomach is killing me... So tired and will skip gym and just go to bed ... Hope ur having a good day!Sun finally came out! Also my seatbelt stopped working haha  It wont snap into the thing ... " I didnt reply at all.


So I dont see what is so funny... I dont even understand what the gym has to do with it... And i dont see why she told me how she cant wait to see me everyday for a week just to cancel... She literally drives right past my house... .And its like the fourth time she cancelled in 3 months because her "stomach hurts"

[Tomzxz]

Welcome to the exciting/disappointment rollercoaster of a personality disorder. The disorder (If it is BPD) is nicknamed the "crazy maker" for a good reason.  You're getting a good dose of it from her and it is starting to make you question your sanity.  Silent treatment, jealousy, push-pull, manipulation, control... .It's a relationship built around keeping you in a state of FOG (fear, obligation, guilt), where you will remain a source of supply for her injured self esteem and insecurities.  

You sound like an intelligent, patient, caring man, why not offer that to someone more deserving? You're putting entirely too much thought into this too soon, that's a good indication that these relationships are over before they start. You can stay awhile, enjoy what you can get from the relationship but know that it cant go anywhere without you making all of the concessions. Unless you are an emotional Spartan that understand boundaries and validation techniques forward and backwards and requires none of this to be reciprocated, I recommend that you get out now before you give your heart to this girl.  It hurts now but it will hurt both you and her more than you can imagine if you continue.  

Yes, in spite of her sabotaging condition, it will hurt her when the relationship fails - you can feel better about yourself if you aren't a part of that for her. Yet you cant feel sorry for her now, she will try to invoke your sympathy. This will be the hook. This is her problem and not yours. You are looking for a girlfriend not a caseload.

It's not fun, I'm sorry for you,

Get out and work on bettering yourself for the next woman.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

You are looking for a girlfriend not a caseload.

WOW!  You totally nailed it, Tomzxz.  Thank you. 

Freaking A, that's it exactly, "I am looking for a boyfriend not a caseload."

[richardson]

Welcome to the exciting/disappointment rollercoaster of a personality disorder. The disorder (If it is BPD) is nicknamed the "crazy maker" for a good reason.  You're getting a good dose of it from her and it is starting to make you question your sanity.  Silent treatment, jealousy, push-pull, manipulation, control... .It's a relationship built around keeping you in a state of FOG (fear, obligation, guilt), where you will remain a source of supply for her injured self esteem and insecurities.  

Yes, it always seemed like she needed excessive control... .Never spontaneous... . 

When together things were generally wonderful, but when apart it was her telling me how much she misses me, until she would then flake 1 hour before we were supposed to meet.  I will never understand that... It didn't happen all the time, but at least 6 or 7 times within the 4 months... And usually the date times were her suggestions...

I guess the hard part is when you have great chemistry, attraction, and this person is constantly in awe of you, YET you can't get close to them. Like you are on eggshells as to how to act... Be aloof? Dismissive? Complementative?  Caring?  No matter what you really do, it is probably something that will push them away...

She presented herself as this little girl who is lost, wants love, wants attention, wants to make you happy, etc, but then constantly flakes, returns your text 8 hours later, cant take a compliment, yet yuou also feel guilty for not giving her attention... .  It all seemed to be a lost cause...

[Tomzxz]

I guess the hard part is when you have great chemistry, attraction, and this person is constantly in awe of you, YET you can't get close to them. Like you are on eggshells as to how to act... Be aloof? Dismissive? Complementative?  Caring?  No matter what you really do, it is probably something that will push them away...

She presented herself as this little girl who is lost, wants love, wants attention, wants to make you happy, etc, but then constantly flakes, returns your text 8 hours later, cant take a compliment, yet yuou also feel guilty for not giving her attention... . It all seemed to be a lost cause...

Dude it was the same girl.  Seriously though, you just described K down to the letter.  The chemistry is part of the attraction and for them the attraction is part of the idealization.  Chemistry isn't as rare as you think - this girl put you on a pedestal. You represented something that she wanted.  K latched on to me because I told her I lived my life with integrity.  She was very childlike and didn't have a shred of integrity.  People put others on pedestals in the hopes that those traits will rub off on them and thus make them better people by association.  It's lazy and people need to do that work for themselves.   My Ex fiancée actually said "she puts people on pedestals".  She may have knocked me down from that pedestal but it is she who wound up in the trash heap because she didn't learn a thing.

Being aloof and dismissive is the fastest and easiest way to keep these girls interested while protecting your boundaries.  It keeps commitment at a distance - They are deeply afraid of commitment and obligations so if you're distant you look "safe" to them.  The fastest way to get painted black it to be complementative and caring.  I think this is more of a histrionic problem than BPD but I'm no expert and nor do I want to be.  Let her go gently and don't tell her the exact reason why (what you have learned here). It might make you feel better at first but then you will be sad if you hurt her feelings. Most people don't want to hear what's wrong with them and pointing out a possible mental illness wont change the outcome.  

I'm sure my advice isn't the best for handling this kind of a relationship.  The people in the "staying" boards are much better at offering useful tools for mending, repairing and maintaining relationships with disordered partners. And that is usually only out of necessity for children involved. I just know for one reason or another, this kind of relationship isn't for me.

Use what you learned with this girl and apply it to what you need from the next relationship.  Eventually, we might get to be really good at establishing boundaries and applying validation techniques and be so fulfilled with our own self love that we might be able to sustain a relationship with a disordered person but even then our partner would need to be open to self awareness and actualization.  Until then, keep searching for a healthy person. This is the path I'm on.  I realize that at my age, a large percentage of the single population will have some form or another of a personality disorder or jaded past. It will only be through the application of the above tools and recalibrating my expectations for a fulfilling relationship that I will be able to find and hold onto the gift of sharing my life with another person.

[richardson]

I guess the hard part is when you have great chemistry, attraction, and this person is constantly in awe of you, YET you can't get close to them. Like you are on eggshells as to how to act... Be aloof? Dismissive? Complementative?  Caring?  No matter what you really do, it is probably something that will push them away...

She presented herself as this little girl who is lost, wants love, wants attention, wants to make you happy, etc, but then constantly flakes, returns your text 8 hours later, cant take a compliment, yet yuou also feel guilty for not giving her attention... . It all seemed to be a lost cause...

Dude it was the same girl.  Seriously though, you just described K down to the letter.  The chemistry is part of the attraction and for them the attraction is part of the idealization.  Chemistry isn't as rare as you think - this girl put you on a pedestal. You represented something that she wanted.  K latched on to me because I told her I lived my life with integrity.  She was very childlike and didn't have a shred of integrity.  People put others on pedestals in the hopes that those traits will rub off on them and thus make them better people by association.  It's lazy and people need to do that work for themselves.   My Ex fiancée actually said "she puts people on pedestals".  She may have knocked me down from that pedestal but it is she who wound up in the trash heap because she didn't learn a thing.

Being aloof and dismissive is the fastest and easiest way to keep these girls interested while protecting your boundaries.  It keeps commitment at a distance - They are deeply afraid of commitment and obligations so if you're distant you look "safe" to them.  The fastest way to get painted black it to be complementative and caring.  I think this is more of a histrionic problem than BPD but I'm no expert and nor do I want to be.  Let her go gently and don't tell her the exact reason why (what you have learned here).

Mine would actually fluctuate in and out of "little girl voice".

And yes.  If I proposed a date, it felt like I was somehow "obligating her" and even when she didn't flake, it seems like she would be close to it.

Interestingly she would need to propose the dates and be like "wow you actually want to see me?  And I can see you?"  Sort of like she can't believe I like her. ?

The part that would drive me crazy is when she would say things like "I don't think you like me.  I can't tell. Do you like me?" I would then explain of course I do, which would then push her away!

If we went out to eat she would be afraid that I would meet a new girl on the way to the bathroom.  And actually have anxiety.  Or be afraid we will have a hot waitress. 

And after 4 months of daily talking, sex hundreds of times, she would be like "I am not ready to date anyone.  But would you date me?  You never asked me to be your girlfriend." Sort of acting like what we were doing was absolutely nothing.  Not even dating yet. But wanting me to ask her to be my gf so she can say no. 

[richardson]

And now she is texting me to see if something happened or if I am ok.

[Tomzxz]

Don't text - RUN, RUN, RUN!

K had baby talk as well. Are you sure they aren't the same person?  I joked to myself that she was a 35 year old woman in the body of a 25 year old woman with the mind of a 15 year old girl. Her perceived immaturity level fueled the craziness of the whole thing.  Sex was crazy - mechanical but passionless. The arguments were crazy - circular and irrelevant.  Her depression, anxiety, 2AM text ruminations, sleeping in all Saturday and Sunday, walking on eggshells and need for constant physical praise and affirmation was making me crazy. The speed of the relationship was crazy. We covered the boyfriend girlfriend thing after about a month but where I really have you beat is when she demanded that I tell her I would be her husband during one of our sexual encounters. Keep in mind this was also only about two months in!  :)id she slap your face during sex too? The first time she did it I thought to myself - "That's odd - I don't know if I should be turned on right now or terrified".  

We broke up dozens of times during three months. the one before the recycle was because she drove to my house drunk one Sunday night and demanded that I tell her how pretty she was. I played with my dog instead. I don't have time for this crap... . Codependent no more!

It looks like we encountered the same type of behavior and decided It's not for us. I hope they find what they are looking for.  It's sad really because one of her past boyfriends broke her nose and the Vegas dirt bag broke his hand punching a wall in their hotel.  She does deserve so much better but her behavior will get her nowhere.  But once again, not my problem.

[richardson]

Don't text - RUN, RUN, RUN!

K had baby talk as well. Are you sure they aren't the same person?  I joked to myself that she was a 35 year old woman in the body of a 25 year old woman with the mind of a 15 year old girl. Her perceived immaturity level fueled the craziness of the whole thing.  Sex was crazy - mechanical but passionless. The arguments were crazy - circular and irrelevant.  Her depression, anxiety, 2AM text ruminations, sleeping in all Saturday and Sunday, walking on eggshells and need for constant physical praise and affirmation was making me crazy. The speed of the relationship was crazy. We covered the boyfriend girlfriend thing after about a month but where I really have you beat is when she demanded that I tell her I would be her husband during one of our sexual encounters. Keep in mind this was also only about two months in!  :)id she slap your face during sex too? The first time she did it I thought to myself - "That's odd - I don't know if I should be turned on right now or terrified".  

We broke up dozens of times during three months. the one before the recycle was because she drove to my house drunk one Sunday night and demanded that I tell her how pretty she was. I played with my dog instead. I don't have time for this crap... . Codependent no more!

It looks like we encountered the same type of behavior and decided It's not for us. I hope they find what they are looking for.  It's sad really because one of her past boyfriends broke her nose and the Vegas dirt bag broke his hand punching a wall in their hotel.  She does deserve so much better but her behavior will get her nowhere.  But once again, not my problem.

She would actually pretend to be a 15 yr old... .She would also say sex is "mechanical" to her, but she wanted it all the time... And yes, her ex supposedly beat her as well. I guess one difference is that she would always put her own looks down, and seem to enjoy it if I kind of played along... When i would be honest and tell her she is attractive, it is like she didn't want to hear that. 

Mine said she envisions us being married, would think she was always pregnant, but would also tell me she wasnt even ready to date ...   Atleast yours made a little more sense...

[Tomzxz]

Cutting down her looks, thinking she was pregnant all the time. yes, yes, all the same stuff. Are you sure it's not the same girl? She's a Georgia Peach. Lets call this behavior cluster "K" disorder. LOL  Anyone else experience a girl with cluster "K" disorder? 

All kidding aside, this is very serious.   Since this behavior appears to be very common right down to almost every detail, what is an unofficial diagnoses for girls like this?  My opinion was that she suffered from Histrionic PD with a touch of Narcissism.  She wasn't getting the help she needed by her psychologist who was skirting around the issue by  diagnosing her with depression and anxiety to keep the insurance money and pills flowing. 

[richardson]

Cutting down her looks, thinking she was pregnant all the time. yes, yes, all the same stuff. Are you sure it's not the same girl? She's a Georgia Peach. Lets call this behavior cluster "K" disorder. LOL  Anyone else experience a girl with cluster "K" disorder? 

All kidding aside, this is very serious.   Since this behavior appears to be very common right down to almost every detail, what is an unofficial diagnoses for girls like this?  My opinion was that she suffered from Histrionic PD with a touch of Narcissism.  She wasn't getting the help she needed by her psychologist who was skirting around the issue by  diagnosing her with depression and anxiety to keep the insurance money and pills flowing. 

Haha. Same state. 

I guess since I am single again I know the signs as so many girls I meet are similar to her.

Logically I always think if a girl is insecure then more attention and nice words are the way to go.  But it seems to be the opposite in these cases. Giving someone insecure compliments or attention seems to make them disgusted with you.