Another wasted visit to his psychiatrist...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

BPDh saw this psychiatrist yesterday. We'd discussed it a lot. He was going due to his recent depression, and all the stress he is under. He'd originally wanted me to go, but then changed his mind. I think because he decided he didn't want me there, and he wanted to do his usual, avoidance of the issues.

After he got home, later in the evening, after all the drama with his son, I asked him how it went. He starts off with "my psychiatrist says you are wrong... .", so I know he went in there with a crusade. BPDh wants to blame his low testosterone for all his issues. His family doctor explained with me in the room, that his low testosterone can cause mood swings, but not to the degree that BPDh is experiencing. Not the rage, and his history of rage goes way back to before he had low testosterone. I researched it too, and my understanding is that low T can cause mood swings, it doesn't cause a man to become an outright abuser, and act violent.

He says his shrink said low testosterone can cause rage. I don't believe that is actually what his shrink said, but whatever. The problem is that BPDh was supposed to tell him he is depressed, and that his meds are making his thinking fuzzy. I don't think he actually told his shrink any of that. His meds were not adjusted, and he only got something to take "as needed", but not too often, as it's addictive, so I'm thinking it's an anxiety med? Now, I'm sure BPDh has some anxiety, but wouldn't you think he'd have discussed the very thing he went there for?

My Mom always goes to the doctor with my Dad, because my Dad is so social, and such a talker, that he forgets to mention things. BPDh isn't like that, but he gets off topic, and is always there trying to discredit me(or the others doctors opionion) that he basically left out most of what he went there for.

Why would he waste a visit? He said that I can come next visit, so he doesn't forget things, but I don't want to step into the role of caretaker. Why can't he make a list, and bring up the topics off a list?  Plus, I'm sure if I go, BPDh will want to cast me in the role of "controlling him". I'm trying to make sure that doesn't happen.

It's like going to the doctor for an ulcer, but not mentioning the ulcer, and instead focusing on a hangnail. I just don't get it. He says he wants to feel better, and his meds make him feel awful, but he doesn't even mention it to his doctor?

[Ceruleanblue]

BPDh saw this psychiatrist yesterday. We'd discussed it a lot. He was going due to his recent depression, and all the stress he is under. He'd originally wanted me to go, but then changed his mind. I think because he decided he didn't want me there, and he wanted to do his usual, avoidance of the issues.

After he got home, later in the evening, after all the drama with his son, I asked him how it went. He starts off with "my psychiatrist says you are wrong... .", so I know he went in there with a crusade. BPDh wants to blame his low testosterone for all his issues. His family doctor explained with me in the room, that his low testosterone can cause mood swings, but not to the degree that BPDh is experiencing. Not the rage, and his history of rage goes way back to before he had low testosterone. I researched it too, and my understanding is that low T can cause mood swings, it doesn't cause a man to become an outright abuser, and act violent.

He says his shrink said low testosterone can cause rage. I don't believe that is actually what his shrink said, but whatever. The problem is that BPDh was supposed to tell him he is depressed, and that his meds are making his thinking fuzzy. I don't think he actually told his shrink any of that. His meds were not adjusted, and he only got something to take "as needed", but not too often, as it's addictive, so I'm thinking it's an anxiety med? Now, I'm sure BPDh has some anxiety, but wouldn't you think he'd have discussed the very thing he went there for?

My Mom always goes to the doctor with my Dad, because my Dad is so social, and such a talker, that he forgets to mention things. BPDh isn't like that, but he gets off topic, and is always there trying to discredit me(or the others doctors opionion) that he basically left out most of what he went there for.

Why would he waste a visit? He said that I can come next visit, so he doesn't forget things, but I don't want to step into the role of caretaker. Why can't he make a list, and bring up the topics off a list?  Plus, I'm sure if I go, BPDh will want to cast me in the role of "controlling him". I'm trying to make sure that doesn't happen.

It's like going to the doctor for an ulcer, but not mentioning the ulcer, and instead focusing on a hangnail. I just don't get it. He says he wants to feel better, and his meds make him feel awful, but he doesn't even mention it to his doctor?

[Notwendy]

Your H seems to operate on the drama triangle. His relationship is between him and his doctor. Yet he brings you into it with "the doctor says you are wrong". He is stirring up drama because this is what he does.

The only way I can think of to stay out of this drama triangle is to stay out. It is his doctor, his medication, his problems. He is a grown man. If he wants help, he knows how to ask for it. You can be compassionate and  say- "this is between you and your doctor and I trust you are capable of getting the medical care you need".  Any involvement on your part will bring you into the triangle game.

CB, I think for you to not feel hurt or reactive would take not accepting what someone says is true, and if it isn't true, then you don't need to defend it. Defending an accusation that isn't true adds fuel to the fire. Put things to the pink elephant test. If someone called you a pink elephant, would you feel hurt? would you defend it? Probably not, because you are absolutely certain you are not one. If someone accused you of being an elephant, you would likely think that was really strange.  Same for being called  the problem with your H, or being a Donald Trump supporter. You know who you are and what you think.They can say/think what they want. You don't have to react, explain, or defend.

I understand that you want to understand him ,to figure him out, but it may be that this isn't possible. Who he is and what he does can change with his feelings. Taking the focus and mental energy off this can free your up to focus more on you.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, I guess this is probably another triangle. BPDh definitely pulled me into therapy with him with his original therapist too. I didn't mind, but it became clear to me that BPDh wasn't listening to her, and that her advice wasn't the best. She let him get worse in her care, and he didn't see an actual psychiatrist until three years under her care. Even then, I think it was my suggestion that him seeing a psychiatrist might be helpful. I mean, what could it hurt. He tried the whole drama triangle there too, as well as in marriage counseling.

I do feel he can tell his psychiatrist what he need to know to help him, but his super poor communication skills I think mean he doesn't always get proper treatment. That, along with his dishonesty, and skewed reality. He's very negative, and his perception are just different than most anyone's I've known. His thinking is so very black and white, that it's hard to get through to him, or make him see things other than just how he wants to perceive them. It's just so sad, and at times super frustrating.

I think I'll refuse to go with him to his next appointment, but maybe I'll make him a list? I know I've done that myself a couple times when seeing my doctor, just because I always would leave, and realize I'd forgotten to ask something. He really only needs to ask two things: Why are his meds making his thinking fuzzy, and his depression issue.

[Notwendy]

I think it is important to distinguish the motive for making the list. Wanting to be helpful could be entering the triangle as a third person.

In general, emotionally unhealthy caretaking is doing something for someone that they are capable of doing themselves. It robs them of the opportunity to learn from experience.

If someone is too sick to go to the doctor alone or to make up their own list, and they ask you to help, then it is helpful.

The list you make could be what you want him to discuss, not what he wants to discuss, even if he is wrong and it is a wasted visit. It is his meds, his depression, and up to him to discuss this.

Another consideration is - did he ask you for a list? If not, then he may not want it. He is capable of asking you.

Consider this: the man is capable of making his own decisions, even if they are bad ones.

[formflier]

   Consider this: the man is capable of making his own decisions, even if they are bad ones.  

   This is a massive point.  CB, On this board we teach a lot of skills and have a lot of lessons so people can improve their r/s.  I'm sure a lot of change comes from that.  I'm going to present an idea from where the real change comes from.  Mindset.  There are so many little decisions, non-verbal cues and other things that we do in our interactions with our partner that we would never be able to apply "rules" to all of them.  These things flow automatically from what and how we think about our partner.  I was all wrapped up (for a long time) about my wife getting the proper treatment and diagnosis.  Similar to you I was concerned that Ts were getting the "right" story.  Was there change during this time, sure there was.  The last T that my wife had, I never met.  Didn't know her last name.  I did know where the clinic was.  I rarely knew when my wife had an appointment.  When I did it was usually because of a childcare issue.  "Hey, I'm meeting with (insert first name) today.  Can you pick up xyz from school?"  Literally, I think I had one conversation with my wife about this T.  I think it was along the lines of ":)o you like her?" or ":)o you feel comfortable with her?"  Once she said she was good, I dropped it.  Was I curious?  Sure.  But, boundaries go both ways.  If I want privacy I need to give it.    A lot of positive change happened when we each gave each other space to be ourselves.  Positive change came from giving her space to be wrong.  Or better yet, to be wrong and figure it out for themselves.  Same for me.  I don't need or want her in my face "pouncing" on things I am struggling with.  If I need help, I will ask.    

FF

[MaybeSo]

Why would he waste a visit? He said that I can come next visit, so he doesn't forget things, but I don't want to step into the role of caretaker. Why can't he make a list, and bring up the topics off a list?  Plus, I'm sure if I go, BPDh will want to cast me in the role of "controlling him". I'm trying to make sure that doesn't happen.




Focusing so much on him is a problem and speaks to your over involvement with him and his behaviors. This actually sounds anxious and  controlling b:c your focus is on him, him, him.

[unicorn2014]

I'm sorry you're going through that CB.

[Ceruleanblue]

I only suggested making a list for him, as he's always saying he has memory issues, and he felt badly that he didn't mention how "fuzzy" his meds make him feel. I felt making him a list is less caretaking than say, going with him, as HE suggested. I want well out of his care, and for him to take responsibility with it. It's just hard when he has limitations, and his memory is a major one sometimes.

He came home complaining about it, and that was when he mentioned that he didn't even mention what he'd gone there for. It's funny, but also sad. He got a medicine, I'm relatively sure he won't use.

I don't feel I'm overly focused on him, or his behaviors. I feel I strike a good balance. Yes, he does take more effort, and attention that someone without PD, but I also spend a lot of time doing things I enjoy, spending time with my kids, and working on my own issues. The problem is that when you are with pwBPD, you do have things to learn, skills you have to use, and it seems like there is a constant testing of boundaries. I come here to vent, because in real life, other than my therapist, no one understands. Most of my T is focused on me, my relationship with my kids, and she's sort of baffled as to how or why I stay in this marriage. She respects that I do though, and she helps me find ways to make MY life calmer, and better.

I totally do feel that he can take care of himself, I just am baffled by why he didn't mention the reason he booked the appointment in the first place. 

[unicorn2014]

Now I know why this thread resonated with me... .

My pwBPD uses therapy as a way to prove to me he's ok. He tells me he's spent hundreds of dollars if not thousands to "vet my concerns" and he doesn't have problems a, b and c. Very frustrating indeed. He says he goes to a therapist when he has a problem but weekly therapy is too much for him, he doesn't like someone "walking around inside his head." I find his approach maddening and I don't want to hear about it anymore. I think it's a waste of money to go to a therapist to "vet" your significant other's concerns or to prove to yourself that you're ok. Anyone can lie to or about a therapist.

[TheRealJongoBong]

Why would he waste a visit? One reason might be that he doesn't like to go there and speak about his problems because it makes him feel vulnerable. Then because he's feeling vulnerable he dissociates and kind of blanks why he's there or doesn't want to say anything for fear of looking vulnerable. Then when he leaves and figures out that he didn't accomplish what he meant to it makes him feel more vulnerable. When he gets home to you he's afraid of looking vulnerable again, so he dissociates and tries to pin it on you.

Did his parent(s) when he was young have the attitude that you have to be strong all the time and never reveal weakness to anyone?

My wife has had this kind of MO with psychiatrists and therapists. It was generally "i'm fine, can I leave now?" It wasn't that she didn't want to get better, she was just afraid to look weak. Her father definitely had the "never reveal weakness" thing going on and loved to rip people to shreds over what he perceived was a vulnerability.

[Concerns]

It's interesting. why would he waste a visit? Aside from his BPD issues, our culture has been built on this idea that being vulnerable, in males, is perceived as weakness. I can certainly attest to this. I watched a TED talk recently about shame. She asked the audience to raise their hands if anyone has perceived someone being vulnerable as being weak. The whole audience raised their hands. The idea of equating vulnerability and weakness, in a cultural sense, could certainly contribute to his lack of disclosure. I have chosen to be a vulnerable male because I believe in exposing shame within ourselves as a path to becoming a better human. But this is not what we teach men. I think I have suffered for it. We act like we want men to be more sensitive but I'm sure it's a punishable offense. Even in my current situation, my BPDw devalues me for being sensitive. When in reality, I'm actually approaching her as an equal and being vulnerable with her is perceived as a distinct weakness.