My finance's divorce

[unicorn2014]

To those who are familiar with my story, I was encouraged to post here regarding this issue. To those who are not, feel free to read my posts on the undecided board to familiarize yourself.

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My finance had said since July 2012 that he was filing for divorce.  Then he said he withdrew that divorce petition on Memorial Day 2013 to file for bankruptcy. I established a boundary a year later that if he did not file for divorce again I was going to terminate the relationship so he said he filed again.

He maintains from June 2015 until this day that both divorce petitions were filed.  When I checked the public record  in September 2015 neither filing was  there.

He said that either his lawyer or the court clerk made an error. 

To resolve this, rather than file the petition he had, has hired a new lawyer which took over 3 months from the time I discovered the filing had not been made. His new lawyer is now saying that it will take only 2 months for the divorce to go through from the filing date  because of all the prior work that had been done.

Does this sound realistic ?

[unicorn2014]

It is too late for me to modify this so I want to be clear that my fiancé told me that his attorney told him that because of all the work he did beforehand that it would take him only 60 days from the point of filing to get divorced.

[flourdust]

A couple of big caveats -- I'm not an expert on divorce, and divorce laws are dependent on the state the divorce is filed in. If you're comfortable doing so, you could let us know what state your partner is in. That might get you more targeted advice.

In my state, when a divorce is filed, it sets in motion some activities that you can't help but notice. For one, there's an automatic order to freeze both parties from closing joint accounts or moving large sums of money around. Second, a case management conference is scheduled within a month of the filing, to determine some basics -- how the parties will communicate, what type of process (mediation, trial, etc.) is desired.

Even if his attorney or a clerk somehow failed to file the initial petition, it's impossible that nobody would have noticed no follow-up actions to the filing. That's the case in my state, anyway. It would be like saying that you ordered satellite TV and then somehow not noticing for three years that you have no satellite reception in your house. Or going to a restaurant, ordering dinner, and then sitting there for three years not noticing that you aren't eating. Well, you get the idea.

Regarding what he claims his new attorney is saying ... .well, that's hard to figure out. The attorney would have wanted a lot of financial information to be able to prepare for negotiation or trial. If your partner had done all the legwork to gather bank statements, tracing information on finances, titles, insurance polices, and so on, then that can speed up the process. However, if all that was done three years ago, then much of it would have to be repeated or at least updated. But having all the financial documents organized can speed things along during the initial discovery phase. So, that part, at least, could be true.

But if by "go through," your partner is implying that it will only take two months to go from filing to being officially divorced, that can't be something that anyone would know. The divorce requires both parties to agree to terms. This can be super speedy if all the evidence has been gathered and it's a low-conflict divorce where both your partner and his wife quickly agree on terms. Or it can drag on for months or years if there are disputes. How would your partner and his lawyer know how the other side is going to react at this point in time?

[unicorn2014]

A couple of big caveats -- I'm not an expert on divorce, and divorce laws are dependent on the state the divorce is filed in. If you're comfortable doing so, you could let us know what state your partner is in. That might get you more targeted advice.

I am not comfortable revealing his state at this point, I need to keep this as anonymous as possible. If nothing has changed by the end of March then I will repost, with his state.

In my state, when a divorce is filed, it sets in motion some activities that you can't help but notice. For one, there's an automatic order to freeze both parties from closing joint accounts or moving large sums of money around. Second, a case management conference is scheduled within a month of the filing, to determine some basics -- how the parties will communicate, what type of process (mediation, trial, etc.) is desired.

I do know that his accounts were frozen some time back. I will ask him when they were when he has time. I do know he had at least one case management conference because he told me previously it would be mediation. I think it still is at that level, I will confirm with him on that one too.

Regarding what he claims his new attorney is saying ... .well, that's hard to figure out. The attorney would have wanted a lot of financial information to be able to prepare for negotiation or trial. If your partner had done all the legwork to gather bank statements, tracing information on finances, titles, insurance polices, and so on, then that can speed up the process. However, if all that was done three years ago, then much of it would have to be repeated or at least updated. But having all the financial documents organized can speed things along during the initial discovery phase. So, that part, at least, could be true.

Yes I think it is, I just got off the phone with him about that part.

But if by "go through," your partner is implying that it will only take two months to go from filing to being officially divorced, that can't be something that anyone would know. The divorce requires both parties to agree to terms. This can be super speedy if all the evidence has been gathered and it's a low-conflict divorce where both your partner and his wife quickly agree on terms. Or it can drag on for months or years if there are disputes. How would your partner and his lawyer know how the other side is going to react at this point in time?

My partner told me that he talked to his wife and she said that she would no longer be contesting it. They have been living apart for some time. His attorney is waiting on her attorney for some paperwork. His attorney suggested that his wife pay for her half of the filing process but his attorney also said she could do the whole thing if he wants to pay for it. Right now he is waiting for his wife's attorney to give his attorney some paperwork. He said his attorney could file the petition in a day or two from getting the paperwork.

[livednlearned]

Hi unicorn2014,

Just trying to follow the timeline, so to recap:

2012: files for divorce

2013: withdraws petition to divorce

2015: files for divorce again

You checked to see if anything was on file in 2015, and found nothing.

Your fiance says it was a mistake, that he has filed and it will take 3 months

Then says it will actually take only 2 months.

It's certainly possible that there have been delays and clerical errors.

At your recommendation, I looked at your previous posts, including this:

I think within a marriage there is only one way to break up and that's divorce.

My partner married his wife, divorced his wife, married his wife again, and is divorcing her again to marry me.

That's a make up and break up cycle in a marriage.

Does this mean your fiance divorced and married his wife prior to filing for divorce in 2012? 

[unicorn2014]

Hi unicorn2014,

Just trying to follow the timeline, so to recap:

2012: files for divorce

2013: withdraws petition to divorce

2015: files for divorce again

You checked to see if anything was on file in 2015, and found nothing.

Your fiance says it was a mistake, that he has filed and it will take 3 months

Then says it will actually take only 2 months.

It's certainly possible that there have been delays and clerical errors.

At your recommendation, I looked at your previous posts, including this:

I think within a marriage there is only one way to break up and that's divorce.

My partner married his wife, divorced his wife, married his wife again, and is divorcing her again to marry me.

That's a make up and break up cycle in a marriage.

Does this mean your fiance divorced and married his wife prior to filing for divorce in 2012? 

Yes it was on again off again relationship for 35 years. This marriage is his second marriage to her.

[livednlearned]

Yes it was on again off again relationship for 35 years. This marriage is his second marriage to her.

So he married her, divorced her, married her again. Then he filed for divorce in 2012, then withdrew that petition to divorce (which would've been his second divorce to her), then filed for divorce again.

Then his petition went missing (clerical court/lawyer error).

It's now 2016 and he is saying it will take 2 months for him to be divorced.

Wow.

[Panda39]

The minimum time for a divorce (uncontested/do-it-yourself) in Colorado is 90 days. What is the minimum in his state?

My divorce the above type of divorce and even with a cooperative ex and very few assets we needed all 90 days to get through the process.

2 months does not sound like enough time to me... .especially for a divorce that doesn't appear to have been filed 

[flourdust]

Yes it was on again off again relationship for 35 years. This marriage is his second marriage to her.

So he married her, divorced her, married her again. Then he filed for divorce in 2012, then withdrew that petition to divorce (which would've been his second divorce to her), then filed for divorce again.

Then his petition went missing (clerical court/lawyer error).

It's now 2016 and he is saying it will take 2 months for him to be divorced.

Wow.

Actually, he claimed to have filed for the second divorce in 2012, when he and unicorn started dating, but in 2015, she learned that there was no record of the filing. That's when he claimed some sort of error must have happened without him noticing for three years.

The last several months have been a lot of foot-dragging and increasing tension over when/if/how he will file for divorce (again).

[Seoulsister]

I have been following your posts and didn't realize that two separate filings have been mishandled or lost by the courts. Neither is on record as filed. If this were true, did he receive some kind of compensation for the money that he put into those lost filings?

What has changed between now and then that makes this third filing quick and hassle-free?

[livednlearned]

unicorn2014,

My case involved 60+ court filings, and I eventually became good friends with my lawyer -- we got to know each well over the course of my divorce and custody battle  

I've been on these boards for close to 4 years and the majority of my posting has been on this board. I'm not a lawyer; I am a researcher and I approached my divorce like a research topic I had to learn everything about. I ended up putting the lessons together for this board and have read most of what's on this particular board.

I'm saying all of this because from where I sit, the story about the lawyer or clerk error is absurd. The process of filing and serving a divorce petition is a well-oiled machine. It involves court clerks, law clerks, and independent process servers, and a whole host of other people and processes in the system. All of these people would have to have made a mistake.  If I'm understanding correctly, your ex has told you that he filed a lawsuit and did not get any response or discovery from the other side, and he did not check back for years to see if there was a case in process.  

For a man dealing with bankruptcy, this means that he didn't care about the amount of money he gave his lawyer on retainer, and was not concerned about seeing if his investment was being carried out.

A filing of the original petition can be made next day, or at least the same week. These things are boilerplate. There is no plausible description of what is holding up the filing, from what I have read. The "records" and files aren't included with the initial filing. That exchange happens in the discovery phase and at the demand of the other party.  

Two months to divorce... .It's possible that an uncontested divorce can go pretty quickly. Every state has a legally defined amount of time for this. Two months is on the short side -- this is also something you can easily look up. Even so, people with BPD typically experience high-conflict divorces, even when both parties want the marriage to end. I gave my ex the house and it cost me thousands of dollars and several trips to court, and that is unfortunately a fairly typical experience for a BPD divorce. Stonewalling and obstructing and delaying are very typical, and it sounds like your fiance may be doing this, except not to his wife.

It probably doesn't matter to you if this takes 60 days or six months as long as you know he is actively working on it. My concern would be the credibility of his reports. It doesn't pass the stink test in multiple ways.

[bravhart1]

Unicorn, I'm curious as to how you feel in your gut about what you have been told?

Does it feel like you are being put together? If the divorce is actually not filed at this time, as you were told, does this cross some boundary you have set for yourself?

If you simply wanted to know how long it takes to get a divorce in your state, you could have looked that up faster than posting here, and you are reluctant to give the state. This leads me to think that you are actually asking if you should find some fault with this story youve been told and get a consensus on how you should think or feel about it. Am I wrong?

I'm not all that familiar with your history. Who in this relationship has the BPD?

[unicorn2014]

Who in my relationship  has BPD or who in my partner's marriage has BPD?

I was encouraged by a moderator to post on this board to get legal clarification, that is why I posted here.

The reason my partner was going to file bankruptcy was to hide his assets because his wife wanted them. He's actually not bankrupt. It had to do with being the major shareholder in his business that his wife was a partner in. These are very complicated matters. The business was bankrupt because his wife ran into the ground when he got in an accident and could not go into work for a long period of time.

That has changed, he now tells me she tells him she will not contest the divorce. 

The reason I don't want to give his state is I want to protect his anonymity. That is very important to me.

[unicorn2014]

unicorn2014,


Two months to divorce... .It's possible that an uncontested divorce can go pretty quickly. Every state has a legally defined amount of time for this. Two months is on the short side -- this is also something you can easily look up. Even so, people with BPD typically experience high-conflict divorces, even when both parties want the marriage to end. I gave my ex the house and it cost me thousands of dollars and several trips to court, and that is unfortunately a fairly typical experience for a BPD divorce. Stonewalling and obstructing and delaying are very typical, and it sounds like your fiance may be doing this, except not to his wife.

OK thank you I will look that up.

I gave the truck to my ex when I divorced him and he ended up having it impounded due to a DUI and lost it. I signed it over to him when I started getting his unpaid toll fees.

I have definitely experienced a lot of stonewalling from in the past.

This time out I am taking is resetting the relationship and allowing me to deal with my issues. It was a very good idea to take a step back and start looking in the mirror and I am glad I was finally able to do it.

[unicorn2014]

The minimum time for a divorce (uncontested/do-it-yourself) in Colorado is 90 days. What is the minimum in his state?

His state is not easy, it got a score of 45. Waiting period to file is 12 months. Separation period before divorce can be filed is 12 months. So that right there explains the first year, from July 2012 to July 2013 he couldn't have filed. So that means that he did not withdraw his filing on Memorial Day 2013 because he couldn't have filed it yet. So, should I point this out to him?

The minimum processing time is 210 days. I do believe he filed when I told him if he did not I was leaving, because otherwise his lawyer wouldn't have been able to tell him she would have him divorced in 60 days from the date of filing.

2 months does not sound like enough time to me... .especially for a divorce that doesn't appear to have been filed 

Right except I do believe he filed when I told him that if he did not I was leaving, so something did happen with his first lawyer. He is going to have sue his first lawyer that bungled his divorce, his second lawyer is actually talking to him about that.

[unicorn2014]

I have been following your posts and didn't realize that two separate filings have been mishandled or lost by the courts. Neither is on record as filed. If this were true, did he receive some kind of compensation for the money that he put into those lost filings?

What has changed between now and then that makes this third filing quick and hassle-free?

He couldn't have filed before Memorial Day 2013 because the minimum amount of separation is 12 months in his state and they separated in July 2012.

I don't know what happened when he filed, but from what he tells me he's going to have to sue that lawyer.

I will confront him with what I found out about his state requiring 12 months separation before filing and how he couldn't have filed before that, and ask him why he didn't tell me that.

[unicorn2014]

If you simply wanted to know how long it takes to get a divorce in your state, you could have looked that up faster than posting here, and you are reluctant to give the state. This leads me to think that you are actually asking if you should find some fault with this story youve been told and get a consensus on how you should think or feel about it. Am I wrong?

I'm not all that familiar with your history. Who in this relationship has the BPD?

It is not my state, it is not my divorce, it is my fiancé's divorce and he lives in another state. Are you asking me who in my relationship has BPD or who in my finance's marriage has BPD?

I was encouraged  to post on this board by a senior member to get some clarification.

[flourdust]

I will confront him with what I found out about his state requiring 12 months separation before filing and how he couldn't have filed before that, and ask him why he didn't tell me that.

Look. He lies. A lot. You can "confront" him all you want, but he's refused to come clean in the past, and all he does is alter his story and/or counter-attack back at you. If you want more fighting, then by all means ask him about the latest implausibilities in his story.

I dunno what your goal is -- push him along to divorce so you can hurry up and marry a liar? Try to box him in so he'll break down and confess the truth?

[unicorn2014]

I will confront him with what I found out about his state requiring 12 months separation before filing and how he couldn't have filed before that, and ask him why he didn't tell me that.

Look. He lies. A lot. You can "confront" him all you want, but he's refused to come clean in the past, and all he does is alter his story and/or counter-attack back at you. If you want more fighting, then by all means ask him about the latest implausibilities in his story.

I dunno what your goal is -- push him along to divorce so you can hurry up and marry a liar? Try to box him in so he'll break down and confess the truth?

I think that perhaps he told me he was going to file before he looked up the requirements.

I don't think he's a liar.

I think know he is working with the lawyer I recommended to him.

Why do I want to confront him?

Good question.

To see how he responds?

To gather information about him?

I know have this same problem with wanting to confront my brother about his projection, but since I didn't do that and simply told my brother  not to tell my daughter things that aren't true about me (different story, different board), I think I could gently point out to my partner what I found out and ask him his impression of this.

[bravhart1]

Does your fiancé have BPD? Does his wife? That's what I meant by asking who in this relationship, either yours or his, has the BPD.

It does kind of seem unicorn like you are asking if you should trust your fiancé. You seem to be skirting all around it.

No one is suggesting you shouldn't be posting here. I was simply asking what your real question was. Because whether it's the state you live in or he lives in or his wife lives in, you are trying to figure out if and when he can or can't be getting divorced.

We are trying to help. We are all friends here.

[livednlearned]

When there is this level of distrust, it can be tempting to look at the details and get out the microscope, looking at every detail to see what it will tell you. And yet the pattern alone (divorcing, marrying, divorcing, having an affair partner, becoming engaged to the affair partner while still married, being in a long distance relationship, feigning bankruptcy, stalling on the (possible?) divorce (multiple reasons, many excuses) raises questions about credibility. The details are secondary, although they can feel like the most important thing when that's all you have (because the trust is gone).

If this situation went before a judge, members here would recommend looking at the pattern of behavior. The pattern of behavior says this is not someone playing straight with you. He may love you; he seems unwilling to divorce his wife.

In my state, both parties must be separated for 12 months before filing a divorce complaint and a summons with the clerk of court. However, if there are custody or alimony or any kind of property/asset issues, those get negotiated either in mediation or before a judge. This happens immediately. Meaning, if he wanted a divorce, something had to be filed. If he was doing any kind of discovery and waiting for documents, he had to have filed something. It might be called something different than a divorce complaint (like maybe a petition to file a temporary consent order or something equivalent). In other words, there has to be a record, no matter what.

The divorce decree is just the judicial part that ends the marriage. There are typically many, many other points along the way where there will be court records that document the process. It is highly unlikely that he would feign bankruptcy to avoid paying alimony to the same woman he now claims is not contesting the divorce. That doesn't add up.

An uncontested divorce typically means that someone signs the divorce complaint and asks for nothing -- no alimony, no assets, no custody, no nothing.

They've been married and divorced and married and are getting divorced again and there's... .nothing?

Also, in my state, there are deadlines that go with all of this. No one wants a divorce complaint just sitting there. A lawyer or clerk is going to follow up and make sure their records are in order. And a lawyer is going to need to balance the books at some point.

Taking a moment for a deep breath here. Ignoring any small misinterpretations of the facts as we have read them (let's step away from the details). What is your gut telling you is going on?

[unicorn2014]

Does your fiancé have BPD? Does his wife? That's what I meant by asking who in this relationship, either yours or his, has the BPD.

My fiancé has BPD traits, his wife has narcissistic and alcoholic traits. She's got a lot of stuff going on. Adult child stuff too. In my relationship he has the traits.

It does kind of seem unicorn like you are asking if you should trust your fiancé. You seem to be skirting all around it.

I am not. I was encouraged to post on the legal board to find out if my situation was believable.

No one is suggesting you shouldn't be posting here. I was simply asking what your real question was. Because whether it's the state you live in or he lives in or his wife lives in, you are trying to figure out if and when he can or can't be getting divorced.

I'm not sure that's why I was asked to post here. It was more about whether the timeline or story was believable. Things had gotten so bad in my relationship that I had to take a time out. I'm from the undecided board. He is in the process of filing again. This was more about evaluating past history.

We are trying to help. We are all friends here.

Thank you, I appreciate that! 

[unicorn2014]

If this situation went before a judge, members here would recommend looking at the pattern of behavior. The pattern of behavior says this is not someone playing straight with you. He may love you; he seems unwilling to divorce his wife.

I do believe that he is in the process of doing that now.

In my state, both parties must be separated for 12 months before filing a divorce complaint and a summons with the clerk of court. However, if there are custody or alimony or any kind of property/asset issues, those get negotiated either in mediation or before a judge. This happens immediately. Meaning, if he wanted a divorce, something had to be filed. If he was doing any kind of discovery and waiting for documents, he had to have filed something. It might be called something different than a divorce complaint (like maybe a petition to file a temporary consent order or something equivalent). In other words, there has to be a record, no matter what.

This has to do with property/assets. He had told me she had told him that she was going to fight him on every piece of property and every asset so the divorce would drag on for years. So because his business was insolvent and he was the primary shareholder he was going to file bankruptcy. Its complicated legal stuff that I'm not comfortable talking about publicly, as it involves more then divorce.

The divorce decree is just the judicial part that ends the marriage. There are typically many, many other points along the way where there will be court records that document the process. It is highly unlikely that he would feign bankruptcy to avoid paying alimony to the same woman he now claims is not contesting the divorce. That doesn't add up.

He wasn't going to feign bankruptcy to avoid paying alimony, she didn't want alimony, she wanted to nickel and dime him on every single asset to make him not want to divorce. She seems to have changed her approach and now seems willing to divorce. That is what we are waiting on.

An uncontested divorce typically means that someone signs the divorce complaint and asks for nothing -- no alimony, no assets, no custody, no nothing.

He did tell me yesterday that she did say she wasn't going to contest it. We will see what happens. He has done his side of the paperwork, now he is waiting to hear from her.

They've been married and divorced and married and are getting divorced again and there's... .nothing?

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question, could you please rephrase it?

Taking a moment for a deep breath here. Ignoring any small misinterpretations of the facts as we have read them (let's step away from the details). What is your gut telling you is going on?

I think that he didn't know what he was getting into when he said he was going to divorce her the second time. When he first divorced her they were in their 20s and had no assets. This time was entirely different. I definitely don't think he should have told me he was going to file for divorce when he needed to have waited 12 months from their separation.

I had never, well that's not true, when I was 19 I got involved with a 35 year old man who was separated from his wife. The ironic thing was I met him in my CODA meeting. He fell in love with me and I backed off as I didn't want that on my hands. It was one of my first adult relationships. To be honest my very first relationship was when I was 17 and it was with a 25 year old who was living with his girlfriend at the time. This has been my history, being the other woman. Even my ex husband had a girlfriend when we first started dating. I guess the reason things got so volatile with my partner is I finally decided to blow that pattern up and he was the one who got picked. He calls me his soul mate and he may be right as I have read that soul mates are not nice, cozy relationships, but rather people who teach you about yourself, but that's a subject for the PI board I think? 

[livednlearned]

Hi unicorn2014,

I cannot imagine his divorce would be more high-conflict than what we see here. And he is BPD with a NPD wife? Even just having the traits would suggest a very high-conflict divorce. Divorces on this board break us financially, and bankrupt us emotionally. They drag on in court for years.

And yet, people here move them forward. Day in, day out, we grind through our divorces. It's that important to finalize them. And these are people who don't always have someone waiting for them in the wings, these are people who are motivated to get divorced because they are committed to be divorced. It's hard to imagine how divorces here could be more motivating compared to someone who actually has a fiance waiting.

The details he is providing sound plausible; in aggregate, they don't pass the stink test. My ex (N/BPD) is a former trial attorney and he was brilliant at making things sound plausible. It's what made him good at his profession. He also made things up as a matter of course. Feelings = facts.

If I was a betting person, I would bet that you'll find out from him that his wife decided to contest the divorce somewhere around the 60-day mark. Maybe sooner.

Either way, this doesn't sound like a divorce that will be final in 3 months, much less 2.

Again, this isn't a comment on whether he loves you or not, only that he is not acting like someone who is motivated to get a divorce, for whatever reason. He may be feeding you just enough plausibility, at just the right moments, to keep you hopeful.

[unicorn2014]

Hi unicorn2014,

I cannot imagine his divorce would be more high-conflict than what we see here. And he is BPD with a NPD wife? Even just having the traits would suggest a very high-conflict divorce. Divorces on this board break us financially, and bankrupt us emotionally. They drag on in court for years.

That could explain why we are still at this stage 3.7 years later, however I do believe he is working with the attorney I picked for him and that things are moving now.

And yet, people here move them forward. Day in, day out, we grind through our divorces. It's that important to finalize them. And these are people who don't always have someone waiting for them in the wings, these are people who are motivated to get divorced because they are committed to be divorced. It's hard to imagine how divorces here could be more motivating compared to someone who actually has a fiance waiting.

I am not wearing my ring and will not put it back on until I see a divorce judgment.

The details he is providing sound plausible; in aggregate, they don't pass the stink test. My ex (N/BPD) is a former trial attorney and he was brilliant at making things sound plausible. It's what made him good at his profession. He also made things up as a matter of course. Feelings = facts.

I am impressed with your vocabulary!  I will have to look up the word aggregate. I know it, but am not familiar with it in this use.

Yes my partner also has narcissistic traits which he denies. My partner had a  communications business so he also very brilliant at selling his ideas. I often point that out to him because sometimes I recognize I'm in over my head and there are certain battles I will never win. That coupled with his INTJ temperament makes him lethal at times so I am learning to disengage and back away.

If I was a betting person, I would bet that you'll find out from him that his wife decided to contest the divorce somewhere around the 60-day mark. Maybe sooner.

We will see, now that I have this thread here I will have somewhere to talk about this legal stuff.

Either way, this doesn't sound like a divorce that will be final in 3 months, much less 2.

Again, this isn't a comment on whether he loves you or not, only that he is not acting like someone who is motivated to get a divorce, for whatever reason. He may be feeding you just enough plausibility, at just the right moments, to keep you hopeful.

We will see.

I don't feel any hope, to be honest.

I don't know if you are familiar with Pema Chodron or not but she wrote a book called when things fell apart that I used to help me get through my divorce. I am already at that point of being totally fed up, and of being hopeless, which is the only point from which change can begin.

I was able to tell my partner very clearly on the phone today that I am dealing with codependency issues from my past. I have definitely created space for myself. I only hope I don't blow it up, which again is probably an issue for the undecided board, but all these issues run together like muddy water.

[unicorn2014]

When there is this level of distrust, it can be tempting to look at the details and get out the microscope, looking at every detail to see what it will tell you. And yet the pattern alone (divorcing, marrying, divorcing, having an affair partner, becoming engaged to the affair partner while still married, being in a long distance relationship, feigning bankruptcy, stalling on the (possible?) divorce (multiple reasons, many excuses) raises questions about credibility. The details are secondary, although they can feel like the most important thing when that's all you have (because the trust is gone).

Hi lived n learned, I didn't respond to this part yesterday, but I have had a day to think about it and now I'm really mad.

Regardless of whether he knew or not, it was his responsibility to know that the waiting period to file in his state is 12 months, and the separation requirement before divorce can be filed is 12 months.

From my partner's divorce laws and guidelines page.

Many states require couples to be legally separated and apart for a certain period of time before a divorce can be filed by either spouse. However, this requirement can be waived in some states if both spouses consent to the waiving.

I am really tempted to share this information with him.

Here is another thing I found out.

After a petition is filed, there may be a waiting period before the divorce becomes final and the divorce decree is released.

My partner's priorities are to file for divorce and relocate and start building a new life. I had written that in an email that I shared on the undecided board. Then he took that email back. The way I am feeling now is I do not want to resume our relationship until the divorce decree is released. I saw him on FaceTime last night and we watched Star Trek together. I don't mind seeing him once a week on FaceTime to watch Star Trek. However I have not replied to his messages yet this morning as now that I have a good night's sleep I am angry again because of this clarity of information.

The way I see this is whether or not he wanted to be married or loved his wife, he knew he was married. When I asked him if he was married before I met him, his reply was subterfuge, what woman would let her man talk this way to another woman even if there was nothing going on.

He's apologized for that and asked for forgiveness, but I can't forgive him right now as I have still not seen a divorce petition. He's working on it.  He's blamed me for not forgiving him and accused me of having the spiritual sickness of resentment which he claims to never feel so I don't know that it would be productive to tell him how I feel.

Getting this new information, that he had to wait 12 months before filing, finding out he had to be separated 12 months before filing, makes me angry. He and his wife were still living together when I had the opportunity to start talking to him online, and were doing so for the first 2-3 months of our relationship, without my knowing it. I had greatly admired him before I met him because of who he was. However  I was violating my own values by getting into a relationship with him without knowing it because he lied to me. Then when I found out he was married I had already formed an emotional bond with him, much like many of the people I see posting on the undecided and staying boards.

I'm not sure what to do here but now that I know the truth about the legal side in terms of the waiting and separation period its making a part of me want to leave the relationship.

I think I probably need to go back over to the undecided board and post about the emotional side of this.

[livednlearned]

I had never, well that's not true, when I was 19 I got involved with a 35 year old man who was separated from his wife. The ironic thing was I met him in my CODA meeting. He fell in love with me and I backed off as I didn't want that on my hands. It was one of my first adult relationships. To be honest my very first relationship was when I was 17 and it was with a 25 year old who was living with his girlfriend at the time. This has been my history, being the other woman. Even my ex husband had a girlfriend when we first started dating. I guess the reason things got so volatile with my partner is I finally decided to blow that pattern up and he was the one who got picked. He calls me his soul mate and he may be right as I have read that soul mates are not nice, cozy relationships, but rather people who teach you about yourself, but that's a subject for the PI board I think?  

Imagine a guy who wants to get married to a woman who isn't ready yet. She does agree to live together. They move in, and things are great. He continues to want to get married, she continues to say she isn't ready. They start fighting about it all the time, and the relationship doesn't survive; they move out and break up.

Once he agreed to live together, he made it clear he was willing to compromise what was most important to him, which was getting married. He wanted to be husband/wife not girlfriend/boyfriend.

In a sense, you have allowed the same thing to happen. By staying with him even while he is divorced, or not divorced, or in the process of divorcing, or whatever his status is, he has no reason to change what he's doing. Or, he is motivated to change just enough to get you off his back.

The thing is, by trying to sort this out and put it back together, you destroy the relationship. The question is whether you want to have a relationship with him, or not. If you want to have a relationship with him, you can't spend all your time giving him the third degree. Even if he deserves it! Excessive amounts of distrust are toxic to a relationship, eventually they corrode.

Some people are willing to live in denial if it means having part of what they want. They negotiate with themselves until they're ready to look at things head on. This isn't a judgement -- we all do this to some extent. As you work through this, it might be helpful to think about two parallel things:

1. I want to be in the relationship. I need to accept that he is married and live with that. I cannot try to sabotage him and guilt trip into getting a divorce.

2. I don't want to be in the relationship. I need to accept that he is married and this is not something I can do any longer.

Often we get stuck in a 3rd way, which is to want #1 while also sabotaging the relationship so that it can not possibly continue. This is a way of doing #2 while still trying to make #1 work. And it can't. 

If he is not being honest with you, it's because he doesn't want to lose you. He may also not be willing to give you what you want because you've already given him what he wants, which is a LDR.

[unicorn2014]

The thing is, by trying to sort this out and put it back together, you destroy the relationship. The question is whether you want to have a relationship with him, or not. If you want to have a relationship with him, you can't spend all your time giving him the third degree. Even if he deserves it!

I do want to have a relationship with him which is why I brought my anger to the undecided board instead of to him and I haven't spoken to him yet about what I've learned on this board.

1. I want to be in the relationship. I need to accept that he is married and live with that. I cannot try to sabotage him and guilt trip into getting a divorce.

That's just it, he is moving towards getting a divorce now, he is working with the lawyer that I picked out of the three he sent to me.

I'm not upset about now I'm upset about then.

If he is not being honest with you, it's because he doesn't want to lose you. He may also not be willing to give you what you want because you've already given him what he wants, which is a LDR.

He doesn't want a LDR. He wants to move as soon as possible. I've accused him of using me as an escape plan, he's denied it, even my mom has said he's using me to escape his life. He was all set to move out to my location before I discovered his divorce hadn't been filed and then he had to delay his move  because of what I discovered.

As I stated on the undecided board I want him to have a divorce decree before he moves out here because we have really powerful physical chemistry and I don't want to be exposed to that before he is divorced. The LDR is actually protecting me right now.

[ForeverDad]

She then finally said (which scared me a bit) that she doesn't care if we don't get the divorce finalized for 10 years, she he is in no hurry.

I will start filing for divorce on my own via my lawyer. Might cost me a bit more but so be it. I just want to move on and get it done with.

My SIL (ex's Sis) had a boyfriend who for years and years was getting a divorce.  I really think he didn't push to get the divorce done, he had children in the marriage.  Meanwhile she had 2 children with him.  Eventually the divorce was final but as I recall they still didn't marry.  It was only when they were going to move and buy a house they got married.

You are right, you make have to step up and keep the divorce process moving along in the right direction or else risk playing defense, catch up and damage control.

I was separated for months before filing for divorce.  Naturally, her response was to counter-file for custody and to keep me on the defense (reacting rather than being proactive) she filed in yet another court, the third one for us, alleging harassment and stalking.  So while you don't face custody issues, be aware she can still find ways to make allegations in an attempt to make you look worse than her.  Maybe she won't, but if she has contemplated or threatened doing so then the risk is higher.

Imagine my SIL, getting married (eventually) for a house, not for love or obligation to a spouse.  I don't want that happening to you.

It should have been unconscionable on his part to get engaged while still married or claiming he thought he was divorced.  I mean, how could a person not know he was still married?  How did he list himself on his income tax filings?  The fact that he still is dragging his heels is even more concerning.  I doubt his lawyer spoke to you, so likely the 2 months is his claim, maybe true, but who really knows?  What will be his story in March or April?

Long term, do you want his life's perspective in your life?  Can you marry and have a trusting relationship with someone who has so little regard for your consistently expressed feelings?

[unicorn2014]

Imagine my SIL, getting married (eventually) for a house, not for love or obligation to a spouse.  I don't want that happening to you.

My partner sold his house.

It should have been unconscionable on his part to get engaged while still married or claiming he thought he was divorced.  I mean, how could a person not know he was still married?  How did he list himself on his income tax filings?  The fact that he still is dragging his heels is even more concerning.  I doubt his lawyer spoke to you, so likely the 2 months is his claim, maybe true, but who really knows?  What will be his story in March or April?

He did not claim he thought he was divorced. He claims he thought he filed for divorce. He knew was married. He was talking about his feelings, the BPD feelings equals facts symptom. He felt he wasn't married therefore he wasn't therefore he could propose marriage to me while still being married to his wife.

I believe his claim is correct and if there is nothing in March or April I am prepared to go no contact until there is.

Long term, do you want his life's perspective in your life?  Can you marry and have a trusting relationship with someone who has so little regard for your consistently expressed feelings?

That is a good question and something I am struggling with on the undecided board. I started a new post today about struggling with my boundaries. You are welcome to be the first person to comment. Nobody has commented yet.