Daughter has to go to court for harassment in 2nd degree

[Parents! Get help here!]

Hello,

My daughter is 17.  She has been diagnosed with a mood disorder . We tried therapy for two years (two different therapists and psychiatrists) and couldn't find a good medication and did not see a lot of progression with therapy.  We also have had a very good family therapy program for my husband and I to improve our parenting.  She was verbally abusive in the home and had destroyed some property.  She also smoked marijuana since age 16 but we didn't find it in the home until when she was close to 17.  At that age we started doing room searches and drug testing.  She came up negative on every test even though I was pretty secure about the way I tested her.  She also sneaks out of the house at night.  My husband, son and I leaving for a foreign country in less than a week.  We decided not to take her because my parents were willing to have her stay with them in a city an hour a way.  She was causing to much conflict in the home and she needed to finish up graduating and applying to colleges.

Anyway, last week she and a friend jumped a girl.  She said (and I believe her) that the victim had shown her pierced nipples to her friend's boyfriend and all day long people were telling her that she needed to have her friend's back and help her in the fight.  The victim did not fight back and my daughter hit her a couple of times on the back while she lay on ground.  My daughter felt a lot of pressure from her peer group to participate in this fight.  This is not excuse but is my daughter's explanation for doing what she did.  On top of it my daughter's friend posted details about the fight on social media.  My daughter herself, "retweeted" this post.  My daughter had never gotten in trouble at school but is a very average student and does skip some classes.

My daughter and her friend have been charged with harassment in the 2nd degree.  I am actually very happy about this because I feel that what they did was incredibly wrong and they did not express any remorse.

Everything I have tried to teach my daughter has come to fruition:

1) We had banned this friend from our house and encouraged our daughter to find other friends.

2) We had told my daughter to be careful about what she posts on social media

3) We had maintained that there is "no excuse for abuse"

4) We had told her that smoking weed can affect her memory, motivation and judgement.

On the other side of the coin we have tried to teach her to be careful about how she dresses and flaunts her body.  She tells me that I am a "slut shamer"  meaning that I think that sluts deserved to be hurt.   Ironically she and her friend were engaged in "slut shaming" and certainly the trial might use this tactic to reduce the penalty to the my daughter and friend.

I am not saying "I told you so" although I have a bit.   

Right now she is mostly holed up in her room and trying to avoid us, especially me.  She is telling my husband, her dad, that I am stressing her out too much.

We did hire a lawyer because we make too much money for a court appointed attorney.  Did you know that you are responsible for your child's legal fees until age 21?  Plus, the lawyer is a family friend and is making this a learning/teaching opportunity.

Unfortunately, she has gone out with friends during this trying week and I feel that this does not show remorse. We have no idea who her friends are, I also know that she has smoked weed during this time.  She hides her friends from us because we have called them before or blocked them from out phone. 

I just keep telling myself to thank god for sending this lesson to her.  I also pray that she will learn something from this lesson. 

Has anyone had experiences with the legal system?  Did it help you scare your child? Again, I am happy about it but find it challenging to be liven with my daughter and worrying about her smoking and hanging out with friends.  We can't really block the door for her not to leave and we have taken away some privileges but not all.  She still has wifi to her computer for school work.

She was just admitted to a four year college (we doubted that would happen because of her inconsistent grades) but now she might not be able to attend because of this incident.

[Gorges]

Hello,

My daughter is 17.  She has been diagnosed with a mood disorder . We tried therapy for two years (two different therapists and psychiatrists) and couldn't find a good medication and did not see a lot of progression with therapy.  We also have had a very good family therapy program for my husband and I to improve our parenting.  She was verbally abusive in the home and had destroyed some property.  She also smoked marijuana since age 16 but we didn't find it in the home until when she was close to 17.  At that age we started doing room searches and drug testing.  She came up negative on every test even though I was pretty secure about the way I tested her.  She also sneaks out of the house at night.  My husband, son and I leaving for a foreign country in less than a week.  We decided not to take her because my parents were willing to have her stay with them in a city an hour a way.  She was causing to much conflict in the home and she needed to finish up graduating and applying to colleges.

Anyway, last week she and a friend jumped a girl.  She said (and I believe her) that the victim had shown her pierced nipples to her friend's boyfriend and all day long people were telling her that she needed to have her friend's back and help her in the fight.  The victim did not fight back and my daughter hit her a couple of times on the back while she lay on ground.  My daughter felt a lot of pressure from her peer group to participate in this fight.  This is not excuse but is my daughter's explanation for doing what she did.  On top of it my daughter's friend posted details about the fight on social media.  My daughter herself, "retweeted" this post.  My daughter had never gotten in trouble at school but is a very average student and does skip some classes.

My daughter and her friend have been charged with harassment in the 2nd degree.  I am actually very happy about this because I feel that what they did was incredibly wrong and they did not express any remorse.

Everything I have tried to teach my daughter has come to fruition:

1) We had banned this friend from our house and encouraged our daughter to find other friends.

2) We had told my daughter to be careful about what she posts on social media

3) We had maintained that there is "no excuse for abuse"

4) We had told her that smoking weed can affect her memory, motivation and judgement.

On the other side of the coin we have tried to teach her to be careful about how she dresses and flaunts her body.  She tells me that I am a "slut shamer"  meaning that I think that sluts deserved to be hurt.   Ironically she and her friend were engaged in "slut shaming" and certainly the trial might use this tactic to reduce the penalty to the my daughter and friend.

I am not saying "I told you so" although I have a bit.   

Right now she is mostly holed up in her room and trying to avoid us, especially me.  She is telling my husband, her dad, that I am stressing her out too much.

We did hire a lawyer because we make too much money for a court appointed attorney.  Did you know that you are responsible for your child's legal fees until age 21?  Plus, the lawyer is a family friend and is making this a learning/teaching opportunity.

Unfortunately, she has gone out with friends during this trying week and I feel that this does not show remorse. We have no idea who her friends are, I also know that she has smoked weed during this time.  She hides her friends from us because we have called them before or blocked them from out phone. 

I just keep telling myself to thank god for sending this lesson to her.  I also pray that she will learn something from this lesson. 

Has anyone had experiences with the legal system?  Did it help you scare your child? Again, I am happy about it but find it challenging to be liven with my daughter and worrying about her smoking and hanging out with friends.  We can't really block the door for her not to leave and we have taken away some privileges but not all.  She still has wifi to her computer for school work.

She was just admitted to a four year college (we doubted that would happen because of her inconsistent grades) but now she might not be able to attend because of this incident.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Hi Gorges.  I'm so sorry that you find yourself in this situation.  I’m not sure if each state is different in that you are legally financially responsible for your children until the age of 21.  Rest assured I’ll be looking that one up in my state after this post.  Good lord!

May I ask what consequences you and your husband enforced after this incident? 

[Gorges]

That is a wonderful question.  Right now, not a lot, because there is not a lot that we can take away from her.  Or, so my husband thinks.  She can't drive.  We have stopped giving her rides.  We have parental controls on her phone and have turned her phone off but she can still receive calls.  She has a laptop and we have let her keep the wifi to that.  My husband doesn't really want to have any in home consequences because that will create little battles that will distract and that she will thrive on. 

The natural consequences are very real-a court appearance, meeting with a defense attorney, appealing to colleges that accepted her when they get a report about this.  She also will be moving to her grandparents house in two weeks and we will not let her return to our home again.  We will pay for a dorm or a treatment program but do not want her living with us again.  17 years was enough.

We are just letting her hit rock bottom with natural consequences.

One consequence today though.  When she left our house we noticed her room stinks-weed and cigarette smoke from her nights out.  I stripper her room of all her clothes and perfumes.  The perfumes were tossed.  The clothes are making it through the the hot water cycle and dryer and then she is responsible for retrieving anything from a pile if the basement.  I thought about making her do the laundry but I was worried she wouldn't really wash everything.

[.cup.car]

Gorges, I am sorry you've been thrust into this situation. It can't be anything other than sheer pain.

My advice to you comes as someone from the "other side." I've had to take a teen girl with BPD to court in regards to harassment. Even as the "victim", it was an absolutely awful experience. I still have nightmares.

So please set an example as a parent, and make this relatively easy for all parties involved.

Your daughter intentionally went out and hurt someone with a friend. This is a pretty open & shut case. Why, then, are you so eager to hire a lawyer to defend her, when you are punishing her at home? This sends pretty mixed signals. She now believes Mommy and Daddy will get their lawyer friend to "fix things" if she does something that has legal consequences. Yes, I get you're grounding her at home. But does this really do anything to a 17 year old girl with a mental illness? Nah.

When my ex's parents would ground her and lock some of her "toys" away, she'd hunt for a drill and take apart the entire closet door. When she was told not to bring her phone into certain places, she'd stuff it into her panties. This is the reality of BPD in a teenage girl.

Now, ok, say you continue on the current trajectory and put up a fight in court to lessen the sentence.

The victim will be disgusted that the mommy and daddy of her attacker threw money at the problem and hired a lawyer. If getting the crap beat out of her wasn't enough, now she gets to see grown adults pay someone to help get their daughter out of trouble. There isn't a reason to traumatize this girl a second time and show her how ridiculous the justice system can be. And if you're successful in your attempts to lessen the blow, this WILL get around, because the victim will tell EVERYONE. You will be mocked by your peers. Your daughter will be known as a spoiled brat whose parents pay to get her out of trouble.

Don't do that.

Sit your daughter down with Mr. Lawyer friend and say "You messed up." Tumblr fads like "slut shaming" are a fantasy made up by teenagers on the internet to justify degenerate behavior. The moment I saw slut shaming mentioned, I'm like "oh, she's one of those girls?" Yeah, now's the time to tell her this stuff is hippie liberal garbage, the 2016 version of "Save the Whales."

Go to court with your daughter. Do not take your lawyer friend with you. Represent your daughter. You're allowed to speak for her. Do not let your daughter talk. She will say something stupid.

Cry your eyes out. This shouldn't be difficult. Explain that your daughter has something called Borderline Personality Disorder and nobody can comprehend how difficult she can be on a daily basis. Ask for help. Explain how embarrassing this harassment charge is. This semi-scripted emotional breakdown will soon become a real one. Embrace this.

The victim will begin the healing process upon seeing there is no longer a threat to her safety, as all parties involved agree that what happened was wrong and the attackers should be punished. Your judge will be compassionate to your tears and offer a reduced sentence, with a requirement of heavy counseling that will most likely be set up immediately. Suddenly, you've killed like eight birds with one stone.

In my situation, I had a university teacher (well, tech school, but still) go all out against me because I dared to imply that his little angel had been stalking me since we'd broken up. That turned into an ugly mess, but fortunately I came out on top after five long months. Save yourself the trouble and do the opposite. Admit defeat, become a crying mess, and ask for help. The victim is already having nightmares, don't add another layer to them.

[SoSoSoTired]

Manipulating people with BPD behaviors (having a semi-scripted emotional breakdown) is ethically wrong and very unhealthy behavior to exhibit in front of anyone with BPD. Exhibit appropriate behavior in front of your daughter, Gorges. She needs role models with healthy, non-manipulative behavior.   

You, Gorges,  are not responsible for the healing of the victim.  Your daughter is responsible for making amends with her vicim and for accepting punishment from the judicial system.

[Gorges]

My husband and I went back and forth about the lawyer and here is what we discovered.

1) If you are poor you will have a lawyer appointed to you.

2) If you are under 21 and your parents make enough money, they are responsible for hiring you a lawyer.

3) At arraignment  the judge may insist that she has a lawyer, which will slow the process down.

4) Sometimes the easiest consequences (pay a fine of $150 and have this on your record for the rest of your life)-something a 17 year old would do, are not the best.  Instead we wanted what the lawyer recommended, community service, anger management classes and probation to eventually get this off her record. I am also putting an appeal in for drug rehab for marijuana use, but don't know.

Instead with a lawyer that you hire this is what has happened:

1) the lawyer sits her down and gives her all the possible charges and tells her she is lucky she only got charged with what she did.

2) The lawyer explains the long term consequences of this on her record.

3) The lawyer warns her about engaging in other bad behavior

4) The lawyer asks your daughter to start gathering character witnesses and list of activities ect.

5) My daughter had to sit down and explain what she did in front of official people before the trial even happened.  She did take responsibility for what she did and explained that she got too caught up in following the encouragement of friends who were telling her all day that she had to have her friend's back.  But, she knew in the end it was her choice and she made a dumb decision.

I will not be in court with her because I have to leave the country for my husband's job and my son's school. I thought about staying but I think that she and I need distance and she needs to go through this process with people that she cannot take her stress out on.  Her grandparents will be with her and I wanted to make things easier on them not her.  She has a very good relationship with them and disappointing them will be more of a punishment than disappointing me.

Right now, my daughter is being a rotten person.  However, I am praying that this process teaches her a lesson.  At her school she has witnessed multiple fights and was completely unaware that legal action could be brought.  She was never involved in a fight before.   This time these girls picked on the wrong girl in the wrong way.  Unfortunately, this victim will have to get on a stand and explain why kids might be mad at her. The victim will have to explain that she showed her pierced nipples to another girl's boyfriend and then went around school telling people.  I think that witnessing that will also hopefully teach my daughter to stay out of trouble in that way as well.

The police officer who wrote the ticket thinks that the judge will dismiss the case at arraignment. Our lawyer did a good job of telling my daughter that she shouldn't count on it. So, it was able to add to her misery and stress that the police officer tried to take away.

I'm hoping that someday my daughter will remember we did this for her even though now she is being a really bad person. I thank God for sending her this lesson and I pray to God that he will help her learn something from it. 

Sosotired yes, I agree, my statement to her when she has been so miserable this week at home is that I did not cause this.  However, this week has been very trying as she is holed up in her room completely avoiding us.  I understand this in a way, she is embarrassed.  It would be worse if she was jolly, like nothing happened.