Typical overreaction...

[Ceruleanblue]

Yet another overreaction to something I said, that he chose to construe as criticism. He'd promised to talk to me tonight, and I felt it was all me talking again, with the occasional grunt from him. How I put it was "I didn't think communication was better than the night before, that I felt I'd done most of the talking again".

Now, I did not say this in a harsh, or snotty way. I was matter of fact, and I'm sort of just over asking for such simple things, and he can't/won't even do that. HE clearly viewed that listening was enough(), and got super defensive, and got angry, and started cussing me out. It went even worse from there: "you are never happy"(not true, I even tell him I'm happy we are still together, and send texts telling him that), and "you never change", and "just make the spare bedroom your bedroom from now on".

Major dysregulation, and overreaction. He also said that "it's not his job to entertain me all the time". All I asked for was if we could talk or interact for 10-15 minutes a day. He finds time for video games, talking to others, social lunches... .but I can't even have 10 minutes?

He's pushing me away, but also saying he needs more sex at the same time. My therapist says he should realize that women need some interaction in order to want sex. Makes sense to me too, but BPDh is also a narcissist.

How do you best deal with someone who wants the physical aspect of marriage, but the emotional is a flat zero, and the are hard as heck to live with due to anger, and blame, and mood swings? How do I want to have sex with someone who I have no emotional connection with?

I was married before for 18 years, and it wasn't a good marriage, but compared to this, we were bosom buddies! My ex and I didn't even hardly ever have sex(like maybe once every two years... .he is likely gay), but we honestly had more of a connection that I can with BPDh.

He's sleeping now, and I'm awake feeling anxious. He was super verbally abusive, and he did it on purpose to hurt me. Hurling the "F" word at me, which he has vowed so many times to stop doing. I don't yell at him, I don't cuss him out, and I don't verbally abuse him, even when I'm frustrated or hurt.

I'm afraid of how he'll be in the morning, and I wish I could just skip ahead to when he's in a better place again.

If I could go back, I wouldn't have said I didn't think the communication was much better, but am I never allowed to just be honest? He really wants someone with zero needs, and someone who just does what he wants, and puts up with whatever he dishes out.

I can't keep being a doormat, or never asking for anything. If he didn't want to communicate, he should not have gotten married. I didn't get married to just give him sex, with no emotions behind it.

[sweetheart]

What are you afraid of when he wakes up?

[babyducks]

I can't keep being a doormat, or never asking for anything.

That sounds like a core value.   Or the beginnings of one.   

What's your next step, now that you have identified it?

[Ceruleanblue]

I was afraid of a lot of things when he woke up: that he'd still be angry, that he'd deny all the hateful things he said, or that he'd project the blame onto me, or that he'd use silent treatment to punish me, or maybe even break out divorce threats yet again.

As it was, in the morning, as usual after one of his dysregs, I woke up feeling panicky, so I went to lay down in the spare room after taking one of my anxiety meds. I don't like to take them, and rarely do, but felt I needed one to face what could be coming. He came in after a while, and snuggled up to me. We slept a while longer, and when we woke up, I actually talked to him, and the night before.

I explained the drama triangle, and that I'm doing my best to not be "rescuer", and that everyone needs to work their own issues, and that I'm certainly working mine. I told him I AM NO LONGER OKAY with being verbally abused. I told him that I fight fair, and would like him to also do so. I told him I do not deserve to be cussed out, and hateful things said to me, and that includes his mockery, scorn, and blame. I told him he overreacted last night, and that he frequently does this. He sees blame when I'm only making a request, or he feels attacked, no matter how kindly or softly I say something.

I told him I love him, and have seen improvements in him and our marriage, but I did not like all the hateful things he said to me, and I'm no longer okay being treated that way. He accused me last night of exaggerating, lying(I don't lie, he does and admits he does), not being "happy", and that it's "not his job to entertain me"(in reference to me wanting some slight amount of interaction outside just sex). He was rather shamefaced today about the whole "not my job to entertain you" bit, but he's said it before too, so it's something he obviously feels strongly about.

I told him that we each can only work our own issues, but that I really feel the verbal abuse needs to stop. I know he'll have setbacks, and I know he's always going to struggle, but he CAN have way more control over this than he does.

I'm done putting myself last, and making excuses for BPDh, or my kids, or anyone. I'm making my own journey towards being as healthy as I can be, and I feel continuing to accept verbal abuse, is a huge step back for me. He tried to project it all onto me, and I know this isn't recommended, but I gave him examples of where this has effected so many aspects of his life: his job(he's still on notice there), his kids, his ex, strangers, and now me. He didn't deny it, but he did try to say the job thing was "different". It's not, it's all part of his odd, weird coping behaviors, and bad communication.

I'm tired, and I wish I could just go away for a few days by myself. Finances don't allow that right now, but I sure with I could.

[Notwendy]

I think you did great to tell him and hold your ground. Now, that doesn't mean he will agree with you and say " you are right, I have done terrible things to you" His reaction- to not like what you said and to project his bad feelings on to you is typical IMHO.

My hope for you is that you continue to hold your ground and recognize that what he says to you is his projections. It is scary to be the recipient of them, but I hope that by seeing that they say more about him than you, you won't feel so shaken by them.

IMHO, when we are prodding them to talk to us, they are guarded. That is uncomfortable to them. But when they are dysregulated, they are not guarded but saying whatever comes to their mind. Now, they may not mean what they say all the time, but listening to their feelings, they will tell you more about them. These are the times where, if you can listen, and not react, you can know them better. You are a liar more likely means that he knows he is, but he may not directly admit to that.

IMHO, you have said what you need to say to him about not tolerating abusive treatment. Now, it is time to act on that by taking care of yourself and not putting up with it.

[babyducks]

I'm done putting myself last, and making excuses for BPDh, or my kids, or anyone. I'm making my own journey towards being as healthy as I can be, and I feel continuing to accept verbal abuse, is a huge step back for me. He tried to project it all onto me, and I know this isn't recommended, but I gave him examples of where this has effected so many aspects of his life:

Sounds to me like an excellent boundary.   Clear, concise, it comes from your own core values, being healthy and protecting your own psychic energy and self.    Nice.

He would try to project it off to something or someone else.  Ignore that.   You stated your truth quietly and clearly, you don't have to debate it or convince him.   It's on him to be responsible enough to accept input.   Or not.    That's his business.

It is very likely that he will test this boundary.   Intermittent reinforcement is not your friend.   You will want to consider how to stand firm and enforce the boundary of no verbal abuse.   

any thoughts on that?

[waverider]

In the moment he finds these heart to hearts difficult, almost like pulling teeth without anesthetic, To him it is like impending criticism. He has sat through it twice in a row? Or to him endured it. When you suggested this time was no better he hears that as he was put through it for nothing and that you are going to make him sit through it again. This is what makes him angry, don't think it matters how you worded it, or what the specifics of the issues are. it is about distress intolerance on his part

[MaybeSo]

In the moment he finds these heart to hearts difficult, almost like pulling teeth without anesthetic, To him it is like impending criticism. He has sat through it twice in a row? Or to him endured it. When you suggested this time was no better he hears that as he was put through it for nothing and that you are going to make him sit through it again. This is what makes him angry, don't think it matters how you worded it, or what the specifics of the issues are. it is about distress intolerance on his part

This is my take on it, having been with a person like this.  It is like pulling teeth without anesthetic.

CB, I like that you are sticking up for yourself and that focus of boundaries... .but you still have to accept and work with the animal that you have, not the one you wish he was.

"I didn't think communication was better than the night before, that I felt I'd done most of the talking again".

Now, I did not say this in a harsh, or snotty way. I was matter of fact, and I'm sort of just over asking for such simple things, and he can't/won't even do that. HE clearly viewed that listening was enough(), and got super defensive, and got angry, and started cussing me out.

I wonder... .did you give him any solid verbal appreciation or credit for his listening/attending 2x before telling him what wasn't working for you?   I think you almost HAVE to front load a lot of strokes and appeciation all the time with someone like him before launching into what he is doing that's 'wrong'. 

I can't remember if you read this yet or not but this book is one of the best easy to read primers on attachment styles- Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment

by Amir Levine 

[Notwendy]

I can relate to feeling like I was pulling my H's teeth without anesthesia. The idea of a heart to heart talk is painful to him and he sees it as impending criticism. Eventually, I just stopped not as a payback or to shut him out but because I realized that what I wanted to do my way, was just not working and was not going to work. I didn't like being the tooth puller.

This book, not about BPD, but useful in relationships, was a real eye opener, and gave me some ideas.

www.oprah.com/relationships/How-to-Improve-Your-Marriage-Without-Talking-About-It

[TheRealJongoBong]

Here are two articles that have helped me in the last week. The first is about a personal bill of rights that helps me to understand what I really want and don't want so I can better define my boundaries:

www.sfhelp.org/relate/keys/rights.htm

And the second is about communication needs and skills, which I haven't seen presented in such a clear way:

www.sfhelp.org/cx/basics.htm#cx_defined

This guy's website is an absolute horror to navigate but he has a wealth of information in it

[Ceruleanblue]

Just for clarification, I DID NOT insist that he talk to me, that was HIS idea, after I'd stated that it is a need I have. I have a need to have some form of communication and slight connection to my spouse. If I didn't have that need, I would not have gotten married. I do not need him to fulfill all my needs, I'm pretty good at making myself happy, but I didn't get married to live with someone who won't talk to me. It's weird.

The second night, he devoted about half an hour to "talking"(as I'm imagining how he might have seen this), but he did not in fact talk, he just sat and listened. I didn't talk about anything serious, it was just idle chit chat, so I don't think it had an "endure" factor, like if we were on a serious, or touchy subject.

I can see where you are coming from, but I don't think this was the case here. It definitely would have been had the subject matters been less than light and superficial. As it was, I'd say something, and think he might respond, or say something more back. Nada. He just seems to find ME uninteresting, or he's merely doing this to punish me, or keep us from being connected. Maybe he's super uncomfortable with ANY emotional intimacy with ME, because I'm his wife. He longs for it with his kids, MY one kid, and friends, but not with me. It's not personal, I know, but it stinks.

I think he reacted defensively because in his view(and he pretty much told me this), he views listening to me, as "enough". No need to act as if he's listening, or ask questions, or laugh, or communicate normally. Or maybe he just can't with me, due to the BPD/NPD.

I almost always do heap praise of him for any small effort, but this time I did not. I think because it's been such an ongoing issue for years, and we've had lots of civil discussions about communication not being just one person talking. I know he gets it mentally, but maybe this is a psychological issue.

Just last night, he handled something semi well(after a rough start), and I praised and thanked him after, and even texted him today to praise him about it again. I just don't want to give him praise that he has not earned, because then he'll think merely listening(which is hard for him, because he zones out) is enough. It's not. He's even on probation at work as a manager due to his communication issues.

I'd love to be able to find an aspect of this communication issue to praise, but I'm just not seeing it. The issue I praised him for yesterday and today, was how he helped me deal with my daughter's anger issue, and how he communicated with HER. He can always communicate with her though, as he genuinely wants a bond with her... .

[Ceruleanblue]

Oh, and that book is one I just saw at the book store a week or so ago, and took a pic with my phone. I'd read a guys blog about how he's now divorced, and he can see that he was an "*sshole husband", and he recommended this book. My BPDh even read a few of this guy's blogs(there are twelve), about how he wished he'd done more in the marriage, because divorce stinks. BPDh even asked me a few questions after he read them, so I know it got him thinking.

I'm all about reading books, or trying new things. I think we've made progress in the last year, it's just there's been a lot of recent dysregulations, and the holidays are always hard. Plus, my daughter is dealing with a serious anger issue, and that's been adding chaos. BPDh and I are on the same page about that though, and she's agreed to therapy, so we are all taking steps in the right direction.

I also think they know I'm done taking verbal abuse, and that I'm doing my best to not add to the drama. I deserve to by happy, and have some peace, and I'm going to do all I can to get there. Working on myself, and how to deal with all this, seems to be my best bet so far.

I'm off to watch those videos now... .