Hello to quiet borderline parents

[wendydarling]

Hi SparklesMom

We are wondering how you, DD and family are, we are thinking of you and sending our support. 

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[sparkles mom]

I really think we are making some progress.  She has stopped the negative talk and actually has conversations with us on the phone.  We look forward to her calls.  Family therapy is still hard for her but she sticks with it.  Usually in tears.  I'm driving to see her tomorrow and do family therapy face to face.  We've been hitting hard and serious topics the past three weeks.  She still wants to "just start fresh" and move on from the abuse.  Because she's the compliant kid at the program I hope they don't release her too soon.  She's really good at role playing.

My greatest fear is bringing her home with all the legal stuff still going on.  I'm afraid it will set her so far back. 

Living on an island away from all the ugly stresses and reality makes it hard to address the real world.  She is thriving because of the structure and isolation.  But at the same time she is so driven and counting the days it takes to get from level to level.

[Lollypop]

Hi sparkles mom

It's great news that you both feel and see the progress being made. I know hardly anything about RTC's but it sounds intensive and it must be a relief to be able to talk regularly with decent conversations with your daughter. Each and every step they take is heartening and I feel your worry from your post. I still worry about the delicateness of my Bpds, although he is stable at the moment so it is easier.  I try hard not to predict the future and try to focus on each day. It's not easy!

I hope your visit to see your daughter helps reduce some of your worries.  Good luck and safe travels as I know it's a long journey for you.

Thinking of you

L

[Lollypop]

Hey WD

Just wondering if you're ok and thought I'd reach out to you. Really hope things are progressing for you both.

L

[wendydarling]

Hi sparkles mom

That's encouraging news. I'm so pleased to hear your daughter is engaged in her treatment and making progress.  I recall my daughter's mental health assessor when interviewing me as her carer saying through the treatment they aim to identify and work with her on 'the core nuggets' which I take to be her core issues - that will help her live her life as fully she is able, so it's understandable there will be tears, it's a learning journey for us all.

Like others I have hope for the future and reel with letting go of the past experience. I recognise living in the moment is best. Have you raised your concern about your daughter being discharged too early and what on going treatment and support they can put in place locally when she is discharged?  Can the legal situation be put on hold though her good conduct at RTC? Asking these questions may provide you some comfort at this moment in time. Wishing you all the best for your latest trip.

Hey Lollipop

Thanks for the shout out. I've recently been struggling with what I think can be described as post traumatic stress.  Tears rolling down my face unexpectedly, on the bus, at work in meetings, sitting in the kitchen and struggling with focus and concentration.  I'm sure everyone relates to that.

the good news is daughter has been assigned a male therapist for DBT, which she agreed to. She was upset she is not working with the Dr who has overseen her during her waiting list time but seems to have got over that. Two weeks in, the rules are being set along with goals. Overall she is much better since arriving home from the crisis house, though every day has it's challenges. Group work has yet to commence. She really benefited from the bridging skills sessions she attended. On a train over Easter she took me through one of her worksheets in detail - a good 30 minute conversation. She is using the skills learnt so far, and while everyday is a struggle for her she continues to work hard to remove the toxicity from her life (her words), she's going to beat mental illness and if she has it for the rest of her life at least she will learn to manage it better and maybe even help others also in the same boat. I know there will be relapses - I just hope they are not too severe!

How are you LP?  And your boys? Has your husband been able to takes steps forward? As you say be mindful in the moment, I hope you have a good day today.

Off to work... .

WDx

[Lollypop]

Hi WD

Im not surprised that you're tearful! My goodness, the sheer toll of it all is immense. Let those tears fall WD, time to take care of yourself now. Your daughter sounds as if she's got a handle. Do you get any support other than the forum? Do you feel that you need to talk to somebody?

I arranged counselling to help me last year and I'm currently taking st Johnson wort which personally really helps me.

I'm ok. My book arrived today "I don't have to fix... ." So I'm reading this first. My son15 is good and likes the extra relaxed focus I'm giving him. Bpds is still stable, struggling with money management but ive successfully received rent. Bpds hasn't arranged a assessment appointment. I'm being patient.  My H is work in progress! We need to have a good talk but I'll time it right.

L

[wendydarling]

Hi LP

Thanks for asking LP,  I am very fortunate to have a supportive network of family and friends - they have been marvellous, reaching out to both me and my daughter. March was the first anniversary of my father passing and I now think the events of the last year stalled and confused my grieving - for Dad and also for daughter. I have arranged bereavement counselling, that commences the week after next.  This week we received a ‘save the date’ email from my sister and her partner who get married next year, no presents, instead donations to their just giving page for BPD, proceeds going to the charity MIND. Daughter was bowled over and said she felt deeply loved and supported. So good things are happening. Oh St Johnson Wort - I bought a bottle over a month ago put it in the cupboard and completely forgot about it!    How's it going with I don't have to fix? I'm on my second read through walking on egg shells, I read a bit every night in bed. Next in line is Radical Acceptance, Tara Brach.

WDx

[Lollypop]

Hi WD

I'm very very pleased to hear about the counselling. I also lost my dad, sadly on my BPDs's birthday 17 months ago. Grief is a strange one to deal with, pops up out of nowhere and when least expected. You've certainly had a lot to cope with and no wonder you're feeling like you do.

The book is amazing. I've decided to read it again straight afterwards so the bits I really need stick - I think I'll do notes! I've told H I think he'd benefit from reading it but won't push it.

My good news is:

1- BPDs bought himself a belt from the charity shop so the string has gone!

2- he went out for a meal with his girlfriend last night and he really enjoyed it

Nothing quite like a wedding to look forward to and it's wonderful about the MIND donations. A dress is forthcoming! Our lives are like a jigsaw puzzle, slotting in all the important pieces we need first. It's so important to have joy so we are better able to cope.

Thanks for the tips on my next reads. I've made a note.

Have a great Sunday.

[Rockieplace]

Hi Wendy and Lollipop, 

Life is strange isn't it.  It was the anniversary of my mum's death this month too and I wasn't able to deal with it really as it seemed to prompt the downward spiral of my BPDD. She therefore because our main concern.  She had a complicated relationship with my mum, a bit of love/hate (which come to think of it is the same as all of my BPDD's relationships actually!).  She collapsed at the time as I had kept telling her she must visit my mum as the end wasn't far away but she scathingly responded by saying that I was just being alarmist and OTT as usual.  I tried to comfort her and soothe her by saying that my mum wouldn't want her to feel guilty about not going to see her which provoked her into an absolute rage saying that she didn't feel guilty at all.  It wasn't long after that that she went into crisis and a series of serious self-harming events resulting in her being sectioned a number of times.

I'm so pleased you are getting support Wendy and that your daughter is getting the treatment she needs.  My BPDD is struggling to get help from the professional team as they say that they don't provide DBT in our area and that she is too complex for the groups they do offer.  I'm trying not to wade in although I have written a long and pleading letter to her case manager out of pure frustration.

I laughed out loud at the 'string' Lollipop.  On such steps lie true progress.  Such positive news re the girlfriend too.  Fingers crossed.

I'm meditating frantically (if that is possible) at the moment.  Ohm Ohm Ohm.

[ShiningStar]

Thank you for this thread. I am related very much to what you are all talking about. I am in the US and I see there are many DBT clinics. My 19 yr old daughter is currently living away from home. Rather than go to college (she went to one year of Jr. College), she wanted to move out and work. I was very proud of her interest in experiencing life on her own. She had one friend already living there and they live in the same building. That friend helped her get a job there. It seemed like she was doing really well. (we had no idea about BPD at that time).

The job was stressful for her. She had suicidal thoughts and some panic attacks, so she quit after 3-4 months. Now she is afraid to work, she had made some friends and now she feels like she has taken advantage of them and they are no longer her friends (I think they are, but I'm not there). She is doing self-harm. She has done some drinking with friends, but it doesn't sound like she has done a lot. She has smoke a bit of pot, but again, doesn't sound like much.

When she was in high school and depressed (school was rough), the pediatrician put her on Paxil which was horrible for her, and coming off of it was even worse. So she is not interested in finding medications to help her now.

When we look at her childhood, there have been some traumas that she never thought of as trauma. See what you think. She was bullied by girlfriends around the same time that I was going through breast cancer treatments (fear of abandonment?), a few years before that, her dad had open heart surgery, then a few years after the cancer, we got divorced. Meanwhile there were multiple special pet deaths and an uncle and a grandfather died around that same time... .She took all of it in stride and played with friends and seemed to have a normal, fun childhood.

In middle school, after I finished treatments, she wanted to be homeschooled, so we tried that. That didn't work out very well as neither of us could keep her on track and get any work done. We tried a lot of out-of-the-box teaching techniques, but she just couldn't get motivated. She did go back to school the next year to a new school (an arts school which worked well for her). High school brought more challenges and we tried an alternative school after she stopped going because she was depressed and couldn't get out of bed.

She completed high school after returning to the original high school and we got the counselor to help her complete the missing units. Then she went to one year of junior college where she took art classes and dance classes and that made her happy, but didn't think she could complete college when she would be required to take English and Math classes. So she decided to move away and try to work and live on her own. She was excited about a dance school and had dreams of going there. She has talked about going abroad and working or dancing or something.

Now, she seems to be doing more self-harm and feels alone and I feel it is time for her to move home so that we can look into therapy options. I am looking for a support group I can attend that may give me ideas on how to behave around her so that I am not enabling her or upsetting her.

I think she has been disassociating for much of her life. We looked at photos and I see it. She doesn't see it. She looks like a different person at times in those photos. She only started to talk about it when she was in therapy after the divorce.

Now she is learning about BPD and has come across AVPD? Avoidance disorder? When she read that description, it sounded like her. She is afraid to talk with a therapist for fear that the therapist won't believe her or will disagree with her self-diagnosis. Or make her feel badly for trying to figure it out for herself.

She has started a blog about her experiences with BPD. I am very proud of her for putting herself out there and expressing what she is experiencing.

Thanks for connecting us all together. The quiet ones seem so different than most of the experiences being talked about here.

[wendydarling]

Hi Shining Star

I'm so very sorry not to have responded till now. My goodness you have been through so much it's no wonder you are reflecting how your daughter coped with past events and trauma. I have not had health issues though my daughter is sharing her feelings of abandonment as a child and an adult.

It’s wonderful your daughter is looking for answers, building her knowledge and understanding, my daughter was also able to identify through her research. Our daughters have a similar approach … blogging, etc. it’s been a good foundation of my daughter’s motivation to recover. I understand your daughter “is afraid to talk with a therapist for fear that the therapist won't believe her or will disagree with her self-diagnosis. Or make her feel badly for trying to figure it out for herself”.  I hope your daughter overcomes her fears to talk with a therapist, my daughter found comfort in gaining a diagnosis, her multiple symptoms acknowledged and emotional dysregulation is real and it hurts! 

How did your visit go?  I’m sure much has happened since you last posted.

The decorators have been here for the last 2 weeks, one more week to go.  It's been very disruptive, having boxed up our belongings and moved our possessions from room to room.  It’s like moving home within home – I can’t find anything anymore.   My daughter’s bedroom and dressing room come office has been a dirty tip for over a decade, like many a BPD bedroom described by others on this site. She’s has let go of some possessions, that’s a big thing as she has a strong emotional attachment to everything.  She wants a calm ordered space – a personal goal, hurray, hurray!  Will she be able to further halve the volume of her possessions? I do hope so, it would make her life so much simpler to manage and a nice relaxing space to be. A BPD friend of hers is a compulsive clothes buyer, most of which ends up in my house, I dread seeing daughter walking up the path with a huge bulging bag, many of the clothes are unworn... .

Anyhow I’m pleased and proud my daughter has set herself this goal especially so soon after spending February in crisis.

WDx 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[ShiningStar]

Hi WendyDarling,

Thank you for your reply. I understand how crazy life can be. And redecorating can be a challenge. It sounds like it will be better when it's all done.

I just heard from my daughter this afternoon and she has decided to move home. My visit there was good, I was able to help her get a few things in order and be there with her while she took care of some things. That seems to be her biggest challenge. She can't do anything alone. I'm not sure what made her decide to come home. Every time I brought it up she was very resistant. I shared your daughters story and others here about the hospital and crisis. I asked if we could make a different choice. She assured me that she would figure things out. And I think she realized she couldn't figure it out alone. She told me she talked to her sister a few times(older) who suggested that she move home. So maybe that's what it was.

I think she may be ready to get some treatment. I told her there was a center near her that does DBT. It is a short bus ride. But she said she wouldn't be able to go alone. And she was stressed every time we talked about getting her some insurance. She is in a different state and something wasn't working when she applied. Anyway, I can get her insured here and we can get some treatment here as well.

Did it take a while to find a therapist that worked well with your daughter? I spoke with one therapist who does DBT privately but doesn't take my insurance. And I have emailed another who has groups usually by not right now so she can work with us privately but also doesn't take our insurance. I'll keep looking. I know how frustrating it can be trying to find someone who she can trust. She was in therapy in high school.

Thank you for taking the time to connect further with me. It is so helpful to know I am not alone. I know we have a lot to figure out but now that she is coming home, we can start the process. Talk to you again soon. Good luck with the remodel and the organizing. Minimalism is a popular thing these days. Maybe your daughter will take an interest in it. I understand the attachment to possessions. My older daughter has a hard time with letting things go. I recently moved into my mom's house and we left a room full of stuff at our house that we are renting out. And then we have a closet full of boxes of books here. I try not to judge but just encourage. And I model with my own purging and living with less. My mom is doing it as well now that my dad has passed. We just can't take any of it with us, right?

Sorry for rambling. Talk again soon.

[wendydarling]

Hi ShiningStar

Good to hear from you. 

I'm glad to hear your daughter was able to talk through things with you and her sister and come to a decision, it must have been hard for her.  What kind of therapy did your daughter have at high school?  I ask because my daughter (unbeknown to me) had 5 months of CBT early last year before her first hospitalisation - looking back she says it was like opening up a can of BPD - it was traumatic. It says CBT can be invalidating for BPD, I found this very helpful. www.behavioraltech.org/resources/whatisdbt.cfm and shared it with my daughter.  Perhaps if your daughter is able to accept DBT is the right treatment for her it may give her some comfort and confidence to trust a therapist.   If I am correct from what you say, the first step is a DBT assessment, can that be carried out ahead of finding place for treatment? To gain a diagnosis and have a space to reflect may feel less overwhelming. 

My daughter was on a DBT waiting list from last July, in the autumn they invited her to the group skills session (this was an informal drop in for those on the waiting list), once a week for 2 hours - she loved it, she was not alone, it was a place to meet and talk and learn some skills.  A month ago she was finally in treatment which commenced with the appointment of a therapist and they have been working through the pre-contract stage of DBT (I believe it's 12 weeks), ahead of the group skills beginning, where she will meet her new peers.  She seems happy with her therapist, even called him one day for support in these early days, though I know she had the opportunity to change therapists if she needed to (based at a mental health centre - part of the local hospital). It's the skills building sessions where I see my daughter has hugely benefited, so far. To be with a peer group able to give and gain support, learn together has been validating she is not alone. 

Back to boxes, cleaning and clearing ... .so right, can't take with! To think I have to empty the bath of boxes to have a bath   That's it, they are all going 

I hope the move home goes well. Do let us know how you get on with the search for treatment.

You are not alone.  Remember to take care of you too.

WDx

[ShiningStar]

 WendyDarling,

You are an angel. I hope you had a soothing bath. So funny about the boxes. Yeah, let them all go. Hahaha. It was pretty freeing for me to let go of most of my possessions to move into my childhood home with my mom. Now to have my girls moving in with us, it may be a bit cozy. But I am looking forward to having them here.

The therapy in high school might have been CBT. She saw an intern who did various things. She did some neurofeedback. It seemed to help in some ways. Interesting what you said about CBT being invalidating for BPD. We have been talking about that therapist and some of the things she did that were inappropriate. Like talking badly about other clients. And telling my daughter that she doesn't like the stepmom. She told my daughter something that her stepmom said in a session about my daughter which seems to kind of haunt her still. She said my daughter "can't do anything without her mommy" which has been part of her resistance to let me help her which has been hard to watch. This is part of why this is so huge for her to come home.

I am comforted by this information. I will share it with my daughter. I think it will help her. And hearing about your daughters experience with the group skills session is very helpful. And about the sequence of events. It sound a lot like the way a center in Portland described how they do things. I haven't found a place here that takes our insurance, but I'm not working too hard at it since she's not exactly on board yet. I have found a few therapists who do DBT privately.

How do we get the assessment done? She did a self assessment online. And then shared the description with me and asked if it sounded like her. She tells me she is afraid to get better because she is beginning to understand what is going on and doesn't know how she will feel without her symptoms that she understands. Her older sister is helping with that because she deals with some mental health issues and felt the same way.

I am working on getting her insurance in place. That has been a bit of an issue for some time.

Today I booked my flight up to help her move. Got a car rented and a hotel. We will take a few days to pack up and then we drive about 12 hours. She has already started to pack which is huge. I had at one point envisioned having to do all of the packing of her things and then getting them into the car. She is much better off than when I went up there a few weeks ago. We have talked packing strategies and she told me what she has already packed. So I think it is feeling more real. And having a date is good too. She feels that these next few weeks will give her time to say goodbye to the friends she has made there. She told me she is seeing this move as temporary and agreed with her. She can focus on where she wants to be and set a time frame for herself.

She has been doing some exercise and today she told me about how she put some more products in her online shop. She has her artwork up for sale in a website and they put her art onto products like phone cases and shirts, pillows and journals. I am so impressed with what she can do. She hasn't felt like creating, but she added products so she did something to move her forward. She has been doing small things each day to improve her outlook on herself and her life. It's encouraging.

Thanks for the link.

I am taking care of me. I do TaiChi and Yoga. And meditation and journaling. And I am reconnecting with old friends here and finding new friends. Things are changing for the better for all of us. I'm feeling such a positive upswing.

Thanks for helping me feel supported. I am so glad to have met you.

[wendydarling]

Hi ShiningStar, thank you  , I'm glad to meet you too. I'm now squeaky clean after the soak, tomorrow I shall shower at work. Decorators leave on Friday, yeah. My daughter wisely decided to stay with friends this week to avoid emotional upset during the turmoil, a wise mind decision, I'm learning from her!  Next time I'll leave them to it ... .and book myself in at the inn... .

I wish you and your daughter a safe journey home, you have been very busy!  She sounds to be coping well as you say and you have given her the space and support to make it her own return and as she says it is temporary. Is there a local dance group for your daughter to join, you said she was very keen. It's encouraging your daughter is motivated to do bits of work that she enjoys. My daughter has kept that going too at her own pace, no stress.

You ask where to gain a medical assessment.  I'm in the UK so the system is likely to be different. Perhaps our US friends could help here. If you have a local mental health centre or hospital ring them to see how to obtain an assessment.  Perhaps a qualified DBT therapist can offer an assessment? Do let us know how you get on.

I have yet to research neurofeedback, many here have shared the great benefits, it's not been mentioned to my daughter as an option, yet, perhaps they do not offer it here.  I'll search. My daughter was offered DBT, then schema therapy and mentalization therapy post DBT if they feel she will benefit at that point. 

I'm sorry your daughter was dealt with "can't do anything without her mommy" my daughter was dealt it too - my daughter had a general anaesthetic last autumn for an exploratory procedure that turned out to be a burst ovarian cyst. When she came round she had a panic attack for about 20 minutes, no one was there in the recovery room or so she thought. She eventually shouted out for me and a nurse in the background sarcastically said oh you are a mummy's girl... .  My daughter made a formal complaint for being abandoned in resuscitation and received an apology. Her GP willingly offered to put forward her case, he was upset by what he heard and wanted to make sure the hospital received feedback and improved standards and understanding for all patients.  Through DBT my daughter is learning to live in the moment and leave past experiences that upset (triggers) her in the past. It's very early days in learning and many here will be able to explain better than I.

Glad to hear you are taking care of you, yoga and meditation.  Bed time here, that means Horlicks and a book. 

WDx

[ShiningStar]

 Hey WendyDarling,

Sorry it has been so long. I was busy for one week learning how to do live webinars and then put my first webinar on. I leave in a few days to go get my daughter to bring her home.

She is doing so much better. She decided to do a 30 day challenge of exercise. She has been doing it for 2 weeks. And has had 5 good days in a row. She is looking forward to her move and new surroundings as she regroups.

I have met a therapist who has worked with BPD patients and is familiar with DBT. She is willing to meet with both of us and said I could go to DBT to go through it myself which is something they recommend. Have you learned about DBT yourself?

I also found a DBT group here where I can go for the multifamily class. I was wondering how your daughter does in the group setting with others who do not have the quiet form of BPD. I feel like my daughter may be very uncomfortable with the ones who are more outward. I guess we will know more when we get started. She still doesn't feel ready to get therapy.

She expressed concern with feeling better. Feeling like she doesn't think she has BPD now. Like she made it all up. And then fears that the good feelings will all go away and the bad days will come back. She did say she read about learning to feel those negative feelings. To stay with them and feel them. I thought that was big as she mostly disassociates. Especially when the feelings are so intense.

Have you learned much about healing trauma? Has your daughter identified any trauma in her life? The therapist was pointing me toward a book called Healing Trauma. It is about Somatic Experience. Peter Levine.

So glad to hear you will have your house back soon. Maybe you have already moved back in.

[wendydarling]

Hi Shining Star – I hope all is well with you.  The decorating is completed, still trying to sort out the home, its slow business when working and tomorrow I have a guest arriving so I’m madly trying to get the place ship shape. I hope the trip home went well and life is settling.  I’m glad to hear you have local DBT opportunities, my daughter loves the group session work, peer support and great people to meet who understand her. I’m sure the first session is daunting for everyone.  It’s a supportive and positive environment and all is to gain.  We have not spoken about past trauma though I did read an interesting thread here recently, thanks for the book suggestion.  I have yet to attend DBT, something I intend to do – searching online to see if that may fit with busy schedule. I have read the skills book and it’s time to engage. Multifamily classes were not offered to me (UK), it’s purely patient focused, that maybe due to her age 27 or the fact it’s not on offer here in the uk. The one to one DBT therapy is based around setting goals, my daughter has now set hers and signed the contract.

I hope things are moving in the right direction. That your daughter recognises she is struggling and is looking for solutions is inspiring and yes it is confusing and a big step to place faith in a treatment when a diagnosis has not been provided her. Good times and struggling times come in cycles so I understand what your daughter is saying to you.  My daughter is also staying with and feeling emotions, with the help of the skills sessions she is making great progress.

Thinking of you.

WDx