My mind shifts constantly

[Davy]

This is my first post on the undecided board. Up untill now ive been posting on the saving a relationship board.

These last few days I find my mind is divided in two.

One half is saying enough is enough, this is not going to work out in the long run. It is better for myself to end this relationship now so I can heal faster.

The other half is saying I love her and will not give up on her. She is an amazing woman and we still have a chance. Be strong and endure this painfull stage,

Things might be good again.

Now I wonder am I kidding myself by hoping things will get better and am I just prolonging my suffering or might it be worth it to continu to fight

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Davy, Your question is an apt one, in my view, because all of us in a r/s with a pwBPD have to wrestle with this issue, for which there is no easy answer.  In my view, and this is only my view, most BPD relationships are not built to last, because the price of staying is too high over the long haul.  Nevertheless, many of us find a way to stay and make it work and, for some of us (read: me) that involved staying over an extended period of time (in my case, a 16-year marriage).  Only you know when it's time to get off the rollercoaster.

What makes you think things might change, going forward?

LuckyJim

[JQ]

Hello Davy,

Since this is your first post on this board I had to go back and review your other post to get an idea where you're at in the process. I see that you had actually read one of the references here on the sight and said how it actually mirrored your own BPD relationship. I also see that you have a therapist, but I don't know when the last time you went or if you are seeing them on a regular basis.

Lucky gives some good guidance in that there is no easy answer to the question you ask. We can give you some guidance, what worked for us, what didn't work for us, give you examples of the things we went though but in the end the choice will be yours and YOURS alone to make. It does seem to appear that you're making progress in the decision making process to stay or go by your statement, " These last few days I find my mind is divided in two. One half is saying enough is enough, this is not going to work out in the long run." 

As you have come to learn from reading & your therapist is that someone who suffers from BPD has a very serious mental / behavioral illness. There is evidence to suggest that the frontal cortex that controls the behavior of someone is permanently damaged with the neurons never really fully developing in the brain. Even with a lifetime of really good mental healthy therapy & meds like mood stabilizers they will never be cured of their mental illness but might be able to manage the illness to some degree.  I know it would be easier to detach yourself from someone if they had another mental illness like schizophrenia or bi-polar and it played less with our hearts & souls.  We fell in love with someone who has BPD mental illness ... .and for some like Lucky they decide to stay. I would absolutely agree with Lucky that a relationship with someone who has BPD is never meant to last ... .perhaps it was meant to happen ... .if only to find out more about yourselves in the process which we all do one way or the other.  Lucky said, "most BPD relationships are not built to last, because the price of staying is too high over the long haul." 

You as a codependent like most of us here are the internal optimist! We see the glass as 1/2 full!  WE are this way for events we grew up to become the perfectionist and people pleasures. We sought out our parents approval for sports, grades, whatever it might be ... .but it was never to come. We tried even harder to bring home those A report cards, but still it wasn't good enough. We continue in our adult life seeking out our parents approval from everyone from girlfriends to our cars to the apartments or houses we buy ... .still it never comes. Until you explore this aspect of your life on a deep dive of yourself ... .the perpetual failed relationships with someone who is a BPD will always be in your life.

YOU are responsible for your happiness Davy ... .NO ONE ELSES!  If you don't take responsibility for your actions and happiness who will?  Is what happening working for you so far? You asked yourself in another post is this the mother I want for my kids among other questions and I believe you said the answer is a, "resounding NO". 

You've had to learn about a new language of BPD, push / pull, raging, projection, deregulation, triangulations, painted black, then white, just to mention a few. These behaviors will never change in someones who has BPD ... .they might become modified to some degree for a period of time ... .but they will never be fully cured of bad behavior or actions.

If you choose to detach from your BPD relationship it will certainly be one of the biggest challenges you have to date in your life. its not going to be easy, but for those who do decide this path, there is help and assistance in the other forum for you.  It is suggested to go NC or No Contact ... .not for a week or a month ... .but forever. 

I can testify that my first exBPDgf  wormed her way back into my life via my BPD mother & sister after 18 years. I thought I had been rid of her until 18 months ago when I went back to take care of my BPD mother for medical issues that had come up. "Again I was the cowboy in the white hat & shiny badge riding in to save the day",  " I was again after 20 years in the military trying to receive my mothers approval ... .how freaking wrong I was." I digress ... .my exBPDgf tried several times to reengage with me in a romantic relationship and when I refused her offers again and again, she raged against me, verbally & physically assaulted me, called me some of the most disgusting names I've ever heard and told me to leave never to bother her again. Within 24 hours she called & texted me to start the process all over again like nothing had happen just 24 hours prior. Her deregulation was on rapid recycle and nothing was going to stop it.

It's ok to miss your BPD as some of us who have gone NC do. Its ok to love your exBPDgf ... .she like ours was a part of our life for a brief but tumultuous period of time.  But we learned that we needed to take care of ourselves first ... .that we had to love ourselves first. We learned that nothing we said or did was ever going to make a difference in the lives of our exBPD. LOVE DOES NOT CONQUER ALL as in the case with someone who is mentally ill with BPD.

Someone else on the board had finally decided to separate from his BPDgf after 5 years. During those five years he admitted to having weekly rages from her full of verbal assaults devaluing him ... .then within 24 hours acting as if nothing had happened.  He finally made the choice to go NC ... .he had a very difficult time with it and stumbled along the way ... .but someone was there to hold out a hand to help him up, dust him off, straighten him up and then it was up to him to take the next step.

I nor anyone else can tell you what to do ... .we can only try to support you in YOUR decision making process and decide the path YOU want to journey on ... .

JQ

[Daniell85]

Moving to the middle emotionally and mentally is very helpful.You sound pretty overwhelmed right now.

For myself, taking steps to gain clarity have been really important.

I think a lot of people get so pulled into the disregulation of the BPD that they lose track of where they themselves stand. It really is ok to slow things down to take care of yourself and stabilize. Once you have done that, your way forward may be clearer.

[Davy]

Every day now I start to think more clearly.

I realize I dodged a bullet here. We talked about marriage and I was already thinking about how and when to ask for her hand. Even worse she wanted half off my house, Told me she needed security. Naive as I was I was willing to do this because I truly believed she was the one. Imagine her BPD started surfacing after these events!

Today I picture myself as chandler ( the episode of friends where he breaks up with janice and is running around yelling I'm free, I'm free.)

During the day my head is ok and I believe it is best to break up.

Problem comes at night when I'm home alone. Then the heartache always returns and I long to hear from her.

Good thing is that she is ignoring me and that is giving me time to heal and make my decision.

[JQ]

Every day now I start to think more clearly.

I realize I dodged a bullet here. We talked about marriage and I was already thinking about how and when to ask for her hand. Even worse she wanted half off my house, Told me she needed security. Naive as I was I was willing to do this because I truly believed she was the one. Imagine her BPD started surfacing after these events!

Today I picture myself as chandler ( the episode of friends where he breaks up with janice and is running around yelling I'm free, I'm free.)

During the day my head is ok and I believe it is best to break up.

Problem comes at night when I'm home alone. Then the heartache always returns and I long to hear from her.

Good thing is that she is ignoring me and that is giving me time to heal and make my decision.

Davy,

Remind us again how long she's been ignoring you? Did you start the NC or did she put you in a timeout? 

Do you know what your plan is when she does reach out? When she makes that text? When she removes you from your time out and calls you?

What are you doing at night to keep your mind occupied? Are you continuing your healing process? Are you learning about yourself?


My first exBPDgf from 20 years ago moved into my house and said something to the very same thing. She wanted 1/2 the house equity within 30 days of moving in ... .THAT never happened and she moved out shortly after that request from a meltdown from something else.  I sold it within a year and moved out of state ... .I felt like NEO in the Matrix when he was on the roof dodging bullets ... . 

JQ

[Dimmy]

Moving in and claiming the house/apartment to be theirs seems like another symptom. Mine moved in in my apartment, manipulated me out of a pair of keys and started claiming the apartment to be his home.

[Dimmy]

Moving in and claiming the house/apartment to be theirs seems like another symptom. Mine moved in in my apartment, manipulated me out of a pair of keys and started claiming the apartment to be his home.

[Davy]

Answers to some questions above:

I've seen my therapist twice and have a 3rd appointment in 2 weeks.

At first I went there to get my BPDgf in to therapy with me however now the focus has shifted to my codependant issues.

I initially suggested to take a break for a week when she moved out so we could calm down and then rebuild.

She did not want to see me for 3 weeks and started ignoring my texts more and more.

after 3 weeks we met and she told me she did not want to break up because I did nothing wrong, it was just to hard right now.

I only stayed for 2 hours (felt uncomfortable because she acted to lightly over ignoring me for 3 weeks).

When I left she hugged me and kissed me saying she would miss me. We agreed to go out for dinner a week later.

the next week she ignored me again. When our date was supposed to happen she started texting me that she was hurt and dissapointed that I was talking to a therapist. Needless to say the date did not go through and I haven't heard from her since.

About what I do at night to keep me occupied. Trying to sleep  but I'm having a lot of trouble sleeping.

I go to the gym in the evening or hang out with friends. As long as I'l occupied I'm fine. It's when I 'm alone the hurt comes back.

What will I do when she contacts me? I have no idea. I think it depends on when she does. But If she does contact me I'm comming on here to ask for advice before doing anything.

[Davy]

What I really want to do is just ask her what she wants? What she wants me to do?

But from what I have learnt I don't think that is a good idea.

Plus I don't think she can answer that question.

The not knowing and not understanding what is going on is the worst part.

Her relationshipstatus on FB still says she is in a relationship with me however in the last 35 days we have seen each other once for 2 hours.

She seems to be getting more distant as time goes by.

It kinda seems as if she wants me to break up with her

[hopeful2015]

This decision is so hard and so stressful. How are everyone coping. I am willing to stay if there is hope but the way my husband disconnects when he is unhappy makes me feel there is no hope what-so-ever. Then I remember the nice things he has done and if I am throwing away a chance.

To tell you the truth, being a single mom (I have a 14month old) is a little scary too and feel maybe some help is better than none. I have been doing pretty much everythign past few months and the resentment that build from not getting any support is traumatic and feinitely killing any good will.

I am restarting my therapy to deal with this challenge.

[JQ]

Davy,

Lets take a couple of things one at a time. First I want to say good on you for reaching out to a therapist for not only for her, but MORE importantly yourself!    You need to learn why you're attracted to someone with BPD, chances are you're in the beginning stages of learning that you're a codependent aka NON aka Care giver aka perfectionist.  Now you need to learn why you're that way ... .like most of us it is probably related to the house you grew up in ... .but that is for you and your therapist to discover.

BPD's are incredibly sensitive to the fear of abandonment & engulfment emotions. If they feel that you're detaching real or not they will feel abandon and a whole host of emotions follow that. If they feel engulfed by your love for them, they start to push you away. The BPD needs to feel in control of the relationship ... .all aspects of it. You'll read example after example of that in these forums.

Sometimes when they feel you have real or not did them wrong, they will put you in a "time out" as a form of punishment. Much like a child is put in a timeout for acting out. When THEY feel it's time to let you out of the corner from your "time out" they will let you know by texting or calling.  Sometimes "time out" is longer then others and nothing you say or do is going to expedite that.

To ask a BPD what they want is NEVER a good idea. Most of the time they are just trying to make it through the day from their demons, their guilt, their fears. I can't tell you how many times my exBPDgf told me, "I'm just trying to get through the day and I have no idea what tomorrow is going to bring."  Chances are they've had a history of failed relationships so this just amplifies the intense emotions of abandonment ... ."Your just like all my other bfs", when you're really not.  You're right, they can't answer the question.  

As far as breaking up, they push you to it via a variety of ways. They anticipate you leaving because it's their history, it's what they know. They don't want to be the one that does it, but they usually are because they feel if they break up with you in what ever manner, they'll be less hurt vise if you were to initiate it. I know it doesn't make sense, but nothing with BPD does.

BPD is a very serious mental / behavioral illness for those who suffer from it. As I said, they will be the forever 3 yr old toddler and you'll have to be the adult in the relationship.  Just like a toddler, some of their behavior will never be logical so don't even try to go that direction. Learn all that you can about BPD language & behavior ... .push/pull, gas lighting, projection, devaluation, triangulation, splitting, painting white, painting black, Narcissistic behavior, recycle, sense of self, manipulative behavior and a whole host of others. There is evidence to suggest that the frontal cortex of the brain that controls behavior has never fully developed ... .the simple explanation is that the neurons never fully developed and this directly correlates to the behavioral illness. Most references will tell you that they will need a lifetime of DBT, CBT, other types of therapy including possible mood stabilizers. National Institute of Mental Health is just one reference but there are more and I encourage you to seek them out via references from your therapist. www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/borderline-personality-disorder/index.shtml#part_145391

As you've discovered reading some of these posts, living with and being a part of someones life who suffers from BPD is going to be a life long challenge. YOU need to ensure YOU are taking care of YOU and YOUR needs, mental & physical health, etc.  It's good to see that you're going to the gym, eating right these are key. Like most of us at one time we all lost a lot of sleep. I would suggest Melatonin which you can find next to the vitamins in the grocery store. Don't worry it's not a drug but a natural hormone that is produce by the body that helps you become drowsy and get the rest your mind and body require. My flight surgeon told me about it to help us sleep after long missions or crossing a lot of time zones. I usually take 30-40 mgs a night.   In my research to better my mind and body I've come to learn that besides increasing calories burned, increasing blood circulation, 10-15 minute showers in the morning are having an amazing affect on my ability to sleep at night. Maybe go to the gym in the morning vise at night has always been suggested for me, especially if you're taking a NOS supplement.

Try reaching out to a friend you haven't spoken to in some time. Get out to a movie ... .matinee on the weekend ... .go for a burger and a beer with a buddy. Make plans for the Super Bowl this weekend. Go for a walk in the morning to help get those good endorphins moving in the body.

Keep up the great work on yourself ... .you're doing good     take a deep breath, it's going to get better ... .it always gets better.

J

[Davy]

Thank you for taking the time to give an elaborate reply. I really appreciate it.

This forum and my therapist are the only places I can really talk about this stuff. Everyone else says just dump her, you can do better.

While they mean well I'm so tired of hearing it. They see her as a bad person and that upsets me because she is not a bad person.

She has a serious illness but she is a great person.

Anyway I need to keep taking care of myself. I had a medical check up today and everything was perfect except my blood pressure was way up.

Hoping its the stress and not sleeping well and that it will return to normal when I get through this.

[JQ]

Thank you for taking the time to give an elaborate reply. I really appreciate it.

This forum and my therapist are the only places I can really talk about this stuff. Everyone else says just dump her, you can do better.

While they mean well I'm so tired of hearing it. They see her as a bad person and that upsets me because she is not a bad person.

She has a serious illness but she is a great person.

Anyway I need to keep taking care of myself. I had a medical check up today and everything was perfect except my blood pressure was way up.

Hoping its the stress and not sleeping well and that it will return to normal when I get through this.

Davy,

I'm pretty sure without a doubt that your elevated BP is directly due to your BPD r/s.  There is plenty of evidence to suggest that a NON who stays longterm with a BPD suffered long term health effects to the point they actually shorten their life. My father died before the age of 50 and now my BPD mother s/o health has taken it's toll after 25 years of being with her. The body, mind and soul can only take so much before each one breaks in their own time. I myself was admitted to the hospital for heart attack symptoms with WOW BP.

This forum in addition to your therapist is the place to come to discuss things that you have with your BPD r/s.  We won't judge you ... .we can listen and offer guidance and suggestions ... .that's what we do here.

As far as friends or family that have never dealt with a r/s of someone who has BPD mental illness, they'll never know the "bonding" between the NON & the BPD however toxic it might be. My exBPD was a very social caring person who would volunteer to work at her church. Support her kids & sports, and was generally a good person. That doesn't excuse the fact that she was mentally ill with BPD and trying to manage the day to day behavior was mentally & physically draining.  Unless you've lived it, you'll never understand it. 

Don't confuse the two ... .they are two separate issues. Even Ted Bundy & Jeffery Dalmer were thought to be very nice guys by their neighbors and co-workers ... .although a little strange at times.

Keep coming here, let us know what is on our mind ... .ask your questions ... .continue to work on yourself both physically and researching, reading and learning all you can about BPD relationships.

J

[Davy]

What is it about thursday.

I've been doing ok these last days and today I'm feeling depressed again.

Just like last week thursday I crashed. Could just be a coincidence.

I again have a strong urge to contact her. Want to know if she still loves me.

I know I should not reach out, have to wait utill she does.

Hope I have the strength to resist and that I feel better again tomorrow.

[JQ]

What is it about thursday.

I've been doing ok these last days and today I'm feeling depressed again.

Just like last week thursday I crashed. Could just be a coincidence.

I again have a strong urge to contact her. Want to know if she still loves me.

I know I should not reach out, have to wait utill she does.

Hope I have the strength to resist and that I feel better again tomorrow.

Hey Davy,

Take a deep breath ... .step back ... .it's going to be a good day!  Questions ... .what plans to you have for the Super Bowl?  It's just 3 days aways! 

Do you have a team you rather win it or are you more interested in seeing the commercials ?   Burgers & beer? Chill & chips?  what are you taking to your buddies house for the game? 

Relax ... .YOU GOT THIS! 

JQ

[Davy]

Hey jq I appreciate what you are trying to do.

However I'm from europe and they dont even show the super bowl on tv here

I do have plans for the weekend. I have to keep myself busy and hang out with my friends.

I cant explain it but I just have a realy bad feeling today

[JQ]

Hey jq I appreciate what you are trying to do.

However I'm from europe and they dont even show the super bowl on tv here

I do have plans for the weekend. I have to keep myself busy and hang out with my friends.

I cant explain it but I just have a realy bad feeling today

Well sorry for the Super Bowl thing ... .maybe catch some soccer ... .one a year for 7 years I would travel to the U.K. for 7-10 days and loved to go to the pub and watch soccer ... .more like watch the crowd ... .they are fanatical !

[Davy]

I'm feeling better than yesterday however with the weekend here I realy hope to hear from her.

I know that is probably not going to happen and I have made other plans anyway.

We had nc all week and I want to contact her but I'm gonna try to make it to 2 weeks of nc.

There is something that my therapist sugested but I have not done it out of fear to make things worse.

She sugested that I contact her mother. I know she is very close to her mom and always goes to her when she is having trouble/feeling bad.

I think her mom is a big influence on her.

What do you guys think? Would it be a good idea to contact her mom?

[JQ]

I'm feeling better than yesterday however with the weekend here I realy hope to hear from her.

I know that is probably not going to happen and I have made other plans anyway.

We had nc all week and I want to contact her but I'm gonna try to make it to 2 weeks of nc.

There is something that my therapist sugested but I have not done it out of fear to make things worse.

She sugested that I contact her mother. I know she is very close to her mom and always goes to her when she is having trouble/feeling bad.

I think her mom is a big influence on her.

What do you guys think? Would it be a good idea to contact her mom?

HI Davy!

Hey you made it through a week of NC!  30 days makes a habit ! AND you get this really cool 30 NC coin after 30 days! I'm kidding of course!  I equate going NC very much like an alcoholic going to Alcohol Anonymous ... .they get a coin after 30 days sober ... .then another one after 6 mths, a 1 yr ... .etc.  COME ON DAVY! YOUR 24% ON YOUR WAY TO YOUR FIRST COIN!     You got to keep a sense of humor about you!

It's good ... .no it's GREAT to see that you're looking out after yourself and making plans for the weekend.     Ummm ... .the mother thing ... .I'm thinking ... .NOT SO MUCH!   Yeah ... .my exBPDgf was "close" to her mother in some way ... .not sure of all the dynamics there ... .but IMHO ... .DO NOT DO THIS!  I've done it before and nothing good came after that ... .she went totally off the rails ... .she let every flying monkey and their cousin out if it's cage!  Something about it's NONE of her business who I see or who I don't and how i see them!  Oh that was a bad day ... .there was a mushroom cloud from my phone going thermonuclear ... .bad bad bad ... .bad ... . 

Stay strong!  It's Friday night there ... .go to a pub ... .a movie ... .a bite to eat ... .do something to get the hell out of the flat!

If you don't want to do any of that ... .keep writing here ... .but really get out of the house and go see a buddy

J

[Davy]

Ok now my life is getting really complicated.

I just got back from dinner with a (female) friend. She has been a great support these past few weeks.

She is having trouble in her marriage and we have been hanging out a lot lately supporting each other.

I have known her for about 12 years and I have always liked her more than friends should but we never got together.

She just confessed to me she is in love with me.

I told her that I have feelings for her too (She said that was obvious) but I cannot give my heart to her right now because I'm still in love with my BPDgf.

Her affection is helping me distance myself from my BPDgf but now I feel like I'm playing them both.

And she is married and has a kid.

Life just took a complicated turn and it already was so confusing.

I don't want to break up a marriage and I can't love her completely right now so I've been honest with her.

She said she does not want to leave it at that and wants to keep seeing me.

And JQ thanks for the reply about contacting her mom. You kinda confirmed my suspicion that would make things worse.

[LilMe]

Davy,

Going from one relationship directly to another is never a good idea. You need a time of working on yourself and learning to identify toxic people and how to avoid them.  I went straight from one bad relationship into an even worse one. I was vulnerable and he was manipulating. It seemed so perfect! But was the worst thing I have ever done.

I know how intense the feelings are! But feelings are not always the best guides. You need a balance of head, heart, and gut. I urge you to pull back from both relationships and try to focus on healing and knowledge of yourself.

[Davy]

I fully realise that. I still need to figure out if my relationship with my BPDgf can be saved but I doubt that. Still have not heard from her.

Even if that is over I need some time to heal first and I also told my friend that.

It is hard to turn her away when she has been my greatest comfort in these hard times.

And these events make it even harder for me not to contact my BPDgf. I really feel like I need some answers so I can either commit or let go.

I'm gonna try to keep myself from contacting her for another week and then reach out to see if she is willing to talk.

Hopefully I have made up my mind bye then but I also want to hear what she has to say before making my decision.

[Davy]

I had a great weekend. For the moment I'm thinking about breaking up with my BPDgf.

I'm thinking about how to break up? I can't break up using a text message. Our fb status says in a relationship with ... .

I can't just change my relationshipstatus on fb. I should break up in person.

Any ideas how to handle this? Should I just text her that we really have to talk, that I have something important to tell her?

I'm not going to do this today because tomorrow I might feel different. I still love her but I no longer feel like I need her to be happy and I don't want to be with someone who does not respect me.

Or should I just wait untill she contacts me? However If she reaches and tells me sweet stuff and wants to commit than I am most likely not

going to be able to resist and give it another chance.

Any advice?

[Notwendy]

She is the one not contacting you. IMHO no contact= no relationship.

Contacting her, to break up, is contact.

If you are certain the relationship is over, then it is. However, anyway you contact her is possibly going to result in her contacting you. If this "break up " is in some way a way to make contact, then you would not be able to keep your resolve.

If your decision for it to be over is over, then it is whether you contact her or not, or however you break up.

One reason to make it official is for closure for you. You may feel you should break up in person but IMHO, this is what is decent when the two of you are in contact.  I think it would be cruel to break up by text or social media with someone you are in contact face to face with.

No contact doesn't need an explanation, IMHO, and again, the only reason to say or do anything would be for closure for you. This is about you. If seeing her isn't good for you, then it isn't something you would do for you.

If you are ready, I'd change the FB status and just be done with it and don't respond if she contacts you. If you are not ready then do nothing and leave the door open for reconnecting. The gray area- not broken up, not together, is probably harder to navigate.

This is just my 2c on someone who has gone NC. NC is NC.

[Davy]

Ok, I will wait another week and if I still feel the same I will just change my fb to single and be done with it.

I feel bad that I can't do this the right way and say goodbye to her but she is leaving me no real choice here

[patientandclear]

She is the one not contacting you. IMHO no contact= no relationship.

Weirdly, this does not seem to be true per se with BPD relationships.

But Davy, I don't think you know what you want.  I think your decision to not decide until you give it some more time makes a lot of sense.  Otherwise I'm guessing the chances you would regret a sudden and definitive move are good.

I'm not convinced that officially labeling something as over is the key step anyway.  I think the key step is in your own heart -- and it sounds like you know that you are still somewhat ambivalent in your heart.  Thus, time and further contemplation may be the best fit.

[Notwendy]

I think you are correct patientandclear- someone with BPD might think being in NC is being in a relationship, and if their partner is OK with that then that is their choice.

To me though, being in a relationship includes communicating, and without communication, there is this void of wondering, perhaps second guessing them, not really knowing. Personally, to me, that non- communication isn't a relationship, and so I would not feel obligated to contact someone who is not in contact with me if I chose to end the relationship.

This isn't the same as getting the ST. One can live with someone who uses the ST, but that person is still there with them, albeit not speaking at the moment. But going NC, out of sight, with no idea whether or not one is still in a relationship leaves the question of being in a relationship unsolved. So the only way I know to resolve that is for the person who is getting the NC to decide.

That decision could also include being undecided, and I agree there isn't a rush or deadline on making a decision. I agree with taking the time to be sure.

[JQ]

Davy,

You've received some great advice from Patientandclear, and Notwendy IMHO.  I know you're in the EU ... .but you're flip flopping more then some of our politicians right now. YOu're going back and forth depending on what direction the wind is blowing or public opinion in reference to the US Politicians.  Us in the USA can appreciate the waffling reference.

You've been on here, you've read, your an educated person. Let me ask YOU a question ... .What has made ANYTHING about your relationship seem to be normal or common place?  Ask yourself that.  I've actually dug deep into some of the archive post in the last 24 hours going back to 2008-2009 ... .and you know ... .I've come to learn one thing in common ... .no matter where you live ... .the USA, the EU ... .no matter if it's a BPDgf or a BPDbf ... .whether you've been together 6 months, or 26 years ... .it has & will always be a crazy train roller coaster ride that will seemly never end ... .that seemly never really gets better. It appears that the flying monkey's do get put into their cages from time to time ... .but the BPD has a key to it and will eventually let them out to once again cause chaos and drama. NOTHING EVER CHANGES IN THIS ASPECT!  

In my moments of weakness I've read these post ... .I've read emails from my exBPDgf from the very beginning ... .and you know it was the same thing over and over and over and over.  NOW  before someone says buuuut ... .my BPD did well with this therapy and or meds ... .they might have done well ... .but unlike a cancer who after 5 years are declared cancer free ... .BPD WILL REMAIN!  It might not be as intense at times ... .but sooner or later if you read the post ... .the flying monkey's eventually learn to let themselves out ... .and nothing good comes after that.

Ask yourself something Davy ... .what about this relationship has changed for the positive since things went all wonky on you?  Has it become better for YOU?  But Patientandclear has made a great point ... .WE don't think you know what you want. Before YOU make any choices / decisions for YOUR future ... .you need to take a deep breath ... .take some time out for YOURSELF ... .and you need to decide a path forward for YOU and a more positive direction in life for YOU and no one else.  Do not set a time limit for the BPD because time is doesn't really exist for them ... .YOU do what is BEST for Davy!  NOT for the BPD ... .NOT for us ... .BUT FOR DAVY WHEN YOU LEARN WHAT THAT IS!  WE can't walk this journey for you ... .we can't tell YOU what to do or what is best for YOU ... .the choice is YOURS!

Notwendy has made some great points too ... .NC is no relationship. Contacting her really does nothing to move forward in the next chapter in your life but to delay it yet again because she will manipulate you and then when you least expect it the flying monkey's are running around causing problems.  As they said, "No contact doesn't need an explanation" ... .so while you're home doing nothing but not sleeping, not eating, not doing well, thinking about what they're doing ... .they are doing the exact opposite. THIS IS NOT A MUTUAL RESPECTFUL RELATIONSHIP!  So once again ... .the choice is YOURS and only YOURS!

I would also agree with Notwendy, "The gray area- not broken up, not together, is probably harder to navigate." ... .the thing that frustrates humans the most is the grey area ... .as a young green colored Master Jedi once said ... ."O ... .OR DO NOT ... .THERE IS NOT TRY!" ... Master Yoda ... .I think it applies here ... .

I hope you find the path that doesn't give you what you want ... .BUUT more importantly ... .GIVES YOU WHAT YOU REQUIRE!

J

[patientandclear]

My ex wBPD thrived on ambiguity.  Ambiguity gave him the feeling of freedom and safety that allowed him to experiment with intimacy with me.

I actually don't mind that, per se.

But eventually this played out as him using his freedom to do things that weren't so OK with me.  The problem was not the ambiguity -- had we just not named our r/s, but had he remained faithful to it nonetheless, and had his actions continued to be congruent with what we were giving each other and the trust I was extending him, it could have been OK.  For me.  Maybe I'm weird that way.

But for me, the kicker wasn't the ambiguity -- it was his specific actions that extended the ambiguity into betrayal or abandonment or using me or taking me for granted.  I think Notwendy's point that, for many of us, NC or ST when you are not living together is functionally that kind of abandonment, is quite important.

My point is ... .the ambiguity in and of itself might or might not be something you can tolerate.  You might have a different line.  That's OK.  What's important is to know where yours is.

For quite a while, the weird, unnamed, unaccountable thing my ex was doing with me was fine with me.  Then things changed in ways that meant it wasn't.  Each of us has to know where that line is.