He wants no settlement ... on to trial

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

 

I filed for divorce several months ago, after husband moved out. He had been spending nights and weekends out drinking and drugging with an enabling group of friends for months prior.

Originally, he wanted us to use a mediator rather than seperate Ls. After so many years of living and dealing with his disordered mind, I knew it would be futile. The mediator would cost a good chunk of money and if it didn't work, we would then need our own Ls, at double the cost.

So, after 7 months of temporary orders and stipulations, it is time to wrap this up. I am willing to negotiate, make concessions, etc. Whatever it takes to get this done and over with.

Stbxh refuses to negotitate and is even back pedaling on previously agreed negotitations.

He does not want to provide any other support for his children other than child support.

They are in their late teens. He wants to drop them from his health insurance, avoid allowing paying for their car insurance, not provide any higher education support, etc.

After agreeing that he took everything he wanted and needed from the home, he now wants to force sale all remaining marital possessions for a divide of proceeds.

He removed tens of thousands of dollars in marital assets already and sold the majority. All of this for him, remains off the table.

He sold his vehicle, purchased another and then totalled that one. He wants one of my vehicles, which is to be used by our daughters.

We had a special court ordered mediation session in which the mediators took my L's proposed settlement and changed a few items for a final settlement.

It was fair. I agreed, even though they made a few recommendations in his favor that I wasn't jumping for joy about. It was overall fair.

He and his L refused. Basically said they came in with no intention of settling.

My stbxh was warned by the mediators that his pride was going to cost him and his anger was transparent and anger management should be considered.

He said things like, "I don't mean to be cruel to my daughters but ... ." followed by a cruel statement and "I love my daughters with all of my heart but ... ." followed by an unloving statement.

He made false, devaluing, cruel accusations about his own daughters. He was asked for proof of these accusations but could offer none.

My L conferred with me after the mediation debacle and stated that he could not believe my stbxh's behavior.

I believe my stbxh wants a trial just to have a forum to degrade, disrespect and devalue me and possibly my daughters. It is not just about assets for him ... .it is about him being able to smear even further in a court room.

I really would have given just about anything to have settled in mediation and just about did. I really want this over and done.

[Teereese]

 

I filed for divorce several months ago, after husband moved out. He had been spending nights and weekends out drinking and drugging with an enabling group of friends for months prior.

Originally, he wanted us to use a mediator rather than seperate Ls. After so many years of living and dealing with his disordered mind, I knew it would be futile. The mediator would cost a good chunk of money and if it didn't work, we would then need our own Ls, at double the cost.

So, after 7 months of temporary orders and stipulations, it is time to wrap this up. I am willing to negotiate, make concessions, etc. Whatever it takes to get this done and over with.

Stbxh refuses to negotitate and is even back pedaling on previously agreed negotitations.

He does not want to provide any other support for his children other than child support.

They are in their late teens. He wants to drop them from his health insurance, avoid allowing paying for their car insurance, not provide any higher education support, etc.

After agreeing that he took everything he wanted and needed from the home, he now wants to force sale all remaining marital possessions for a divide of proceeds.

He removed tens of thousands of dollars in marital assets already and sold the majority. All of this for him, remains off the table.

He sold his vehicle, purchased another and then totalled that one. He wants one of my vehicles, which is to be used by our daughters.

We had a special court ordered mediation session in which the mediators took my L's proposed settlement and changed a few items for a final settlement.

It was fair. I agreed, even though they made a few recommendations in his favor that I wasn't jumping for joy about. It was overall fair.

He and his L refused. Basically said they came in with no intention of settling.

My stbxh was warned by the mediators that his pride was going to cost him and his anger was transparent and anger management should be considered.

He said things like, "I don't mean to be cruel to my daughters but ... ." followed by a cruel statement and "I love my daughters with all of my heart but ... ." followed by an unloving statement.

He made false, devaluing, cruel accusations about his own daughters. He was asked for proof of these accusations but could offer none.

My L conferred with me after the mediation debacle and stated that he could not believe my stbxh's behavior.

I believe my stbxh wants a trial just to have a forum to degrade, disrespect and devalue me and possibly my daughters. It is not just about assets for him ... .it is about him being able to smear even further in a court room.

I really would have given just about anything to have settled in mediation and just about did. I really want this over and done.

[bravhart1]

Since it is your right to ask for a closed court room, why not let him have his day? He may make the judge so disgusted by his behaviours and things he says, that the judge will most likely rule in your favor.

If he is so hell bent on hanging himself, let him.

[david]

If you go to court than ask for the world and settle for much more than you were willing to settle for. It sounds like the court would go along. Some people are so delusional nothing gets through and this sounds like the situation you are in.

[ForeverDad]

I am willing to negotiate, make concessions, etc. Whatever it takes to get this done and over with.

Stbxh refuses to negotitate and is even back pedaling on previously agreed negotitations.

I really would have given just about anything to have settled in mediation and just about did. I really want this over and done.

Uh, oh.  Beware.  You can gift away almost anything to him and you won't get anything out of it.  And years from now you could regret doing so.

Yes, the emotional toll is horrendous but gifting him more than his fair share is, in a way, rewarding him for his poor behaviors and all too likely could give him incentive to make even more demands.

Let the lawyer take the burden of the legal matters in the case (that's part of their job, to deflect the problems) and concentrate on recovery of your life, for yourself and for your children.  Keep in mind that, as a general rule, courts are far less unfair than a misbehaving and obstructive Ex.  Understand too that settlements in our cases do happen but almost never early in a case. Usually it's just before a big hearing or trial.  For example, my ex was too entitled during mediation and even during the settlement conference a few months before trial.  But when I arrived at the court house on Trial Day over two years after our separation, I was met with the news she was finally ready to settle.

So proceed with scheduling a trial.  It is what it is.  Don't get distressed over it, nothing much you can do about it anyway.

[david]

My xBPDw said in her equitable distribution papers that our assets were valued at 1.2 million and that I stole it all. She had four pages written out, yes in her handwriting, of all the things I stole. I had photos from facebook of most of the things she mentioned in her new apartment. My attorney wanted to give a more accurate evaluation. I decided to agree with the valuation and instead asked for my half in cash since I could show she had all the things. My atty liked that idea better and when we went to the conference ex's atty made her client settle instead of going to court. I was awarded a 70/30 split in my favor of the cash we had in an escrow account. It was nowhere near 1.2 million but the fact that I agreed with her evaluation only helped me if we went to court.

My ex's wild claims only hurt her if we went to court and her atty knew that. I learned that the courts are looking for a "reasonable" solution from both parties. If that can't be found then the person with the most reasonable solution usually gets what they are seeking. If you agree to give it all away the courts will not stop you even if they believe you are being too generous.

The car for your daughter would be something I would stand firm on. No judge will take a car away from a child especially if your ex had a car and did what he did. That is on him and your daughter should not be supporting her father.

If you have documentation showing he does not want to carry them on his health insurance etc. I would let the judge see that.

My ex fought everything along the way even though she was the one that filed for divorce. It took over three years to finalize because of her delays. It made no sense. Someone on this site said ,"negative engagement is still engagement". That was the only way I could make sense of what she was doing. We have been separated since 2007 and divorced since 2010. We have a 17 and 12 year old together so I can't completely stop "communicating" with her.

[knowledgeseeker]

After agreeing that he took everything he wanted and needed from the home, he now wants to force sale all remaining marital possessions for a divide of proceeds.

He removed tens of thousands of dollars in marital assets already and sold the majority. All of this for him, remains off the table.

Hang in there! I'm going through something similar. We go back to court on Tuesday to ask the judge to enforce orders.

My stbxh keeps asking to come get specific assets from our home and my worry is exactly what is happening to you. That he will take what he wants and then come back and say he wants everything thats left sold and divide the proceeds. On top of that he charged up 30K on a credit card and wants to stick me with it, and one of the assets he's asking for is on the credit card that I'm not stuck with until we settle. He made a really crappy settlement offer, we countered and he said no. He's not being truthful about anything and sent him discovery questions and of course he didn't responds by the deadline so after giving him an extension we will most likely have to go back to court and file a motion to comply. He has no interest in settle now, so we are prepping for trial. Its a nightmare, costly nightmare and I too want it over but I will not be a doormat. The law is the law and his lies are all provable.

I feel your pain. Hang in there and know you are not alone. I'm amazed at the similarity of the stories I read on here and its comforting. I don't get this disorder or the illogical, irrational behavior of the disordered mind. How can someone be so book smart and high functioning in a career but lack so much common sense that they are literally unable to have and kind of forward thinking as to how their actions and lies will affect them and the outcome down the road. I boggles ones mind. My lawyer and I just shake our heads and pull out the appropriate documentation to debunk the latest delusions... .and march on. I feel like he's living in a house of cards that will crumble and expose what he wants so badly to keep a secret for those he's currently project his faux persona too, but he can't get out of his own way to stop the house from crumbling. Frustrating, sad and maddening to watch and realize I married this person and would have stayed with him forever had I not started putting the pieces together.

Stay strong and don't give in, listen to your lawyer. Mine specializes in high conflict and has worked with Bill Eddy, so I feel really lucky. She's been practicing for 34 years and while she's expensive its been worth it. In the end the only people that truly win are the lawyers. But with a disordered person you have no choice I'm afraid but to protect yourself, get what the law says is fair and just and move on and never look back. That's my goal anyway. The sooner I have 0 connection to him the better. I've been NC now for 3 months this week and while expensive to have the lawyer deal with him directly I have peace of mind.

Keep your head up!

[Teereese]

Thank you all. The similarities of our experiences are scary.

bravhart1, he will get the chance to hang himself then. I have a month of no court motions hopefully. He likes to file and drag me back in for bs.

david, that is not my style. I just want fair and equitable. Most of my sticking points are for my daughters - insurance, education, etc. The forced contact is the worst for me. I want NC but this situation doesn't allow it. I just want to move on.

ForeverDad you are right. I was willing to settle for some things I may have regretted later.

I was pulled back in for a motion to modify. His L made everything out to be petty, mediation was a waste.of time a pretrial would be a waste of time. My L made it clear to the judge that I was m9re than willing to settle at mediation and did not see fit to waste the court's time. The judge got it and ordered pretrial with a judge that is pretty tough. Hopefully, stbxh and his L will come around. I am not asking for the world.

Knowledgeseeker, I feel your pain as well. So similar ... .the lies,  irrational thinking/behavior ... .ugh. I am only 7 months in. Stories of 2-3 years is insanity to me.

I appreciate all of you sharing and words of support.

[sad but wiser]

Of course it matters whether you are in a no fault divorce state or not.  I was in CA.  At trial, the judge HAD to divide the assets 50-50 regardless.  What actually happened was that I stipulated to a lot of things just to get the divorce to finally happen.  He "lost" big time.  The judge saw the main issues my way and flat out told my ex that he didn't believe his story.  However, since my ex had refused to be gainfully employed and since I was gainfully employed (a privilege according to the court) I have been paying spousal support.  My credit cards are maxed out.  It would not have been this way if he had followed the court orders after the trial.  He simply refused, knowing that I would have to take him back to court several times.  Courts are not equipped to deal with cluster B manipulative people. 

They assume the other person will cooperate... .especially if the other person is the one who filed for divorce.    However, I am now nearly done with my "time," have moved away and started a new life.  I did not tell him my plans and he has no real idea where I am.  This is for my physical protection, as I will be a danger to him once I don't "owe" him money. (I know the truth and can ruin his spin)

My best advice to you is not to give your ex any information at all that they don't get through the legal system.  Don't make concessions, as concessions create a desire to see how much more they can get.  Pick an item (or two) that you don't care about but he does and make a big deal out of it.  Over-value it, say how cool it is, so forth.  For me, this helped a lot.  He stopped trying to get things that I had before we were married and hyper focused on the item he loved.  (They get attached to objects.)  I kept pushing that item to the end of the list and he was much more reasonable about the rest.  Don't bother to ask for things in his control.  List and value them, but you will never, ever get them back anyway.  If he sold things after you filed, other than to pay his attorney, he had no right to sell the community property, so list them.  He has to explain he violated a court order and sold things or else pretend he still has it (them).  Just remember, a BPD ex is likely to ignore a court order to sell a house, a car, return items, etc.  Keep that in mind. Good luck.

[ugghh]

It is easy for many of us to fall in to the line of thinking that you find yourself in.   After dealing with pwBPD for years it almost becomes second nature to look for the solution that minimizes their inevitable outburst.  STOP!

It is time to focus your energy and thoughts on yourself and the well being of your children.  Being willing to negotiate is fine, but make sure you are getting something for what you give.  For example, your husband wants to drop the kids off of his health insurance - because of the dollars involved many states make this an adjustment over and above standard child support.  If the kids come on your health insurance and his child support increases to cover the cost, it is one less ongoing entanglement with your ex.

At every point of negotiations during the divorce, I tried to apply the following logic to the topic - (1) Does it keep the case moving forward?; (2) If am giving something up, am I getting something in return; (3) Can I trade a short term pain for a longer term gain - for example, I agreed to assume a $500 credit card balance, in return for estranged ex agreeing to start paying her own car insurance of $100/month.  If the divorce took longer than 5 months I am ahead; (4) I always focused on trying to avoid being responsible for costs that I could not control - example, I agreed to pay 3 months of mortgage (a fixed amount) but got her to move all utilities to her name, since I had no control over how low she turned the A/C or how many lights she left on. 

Hang in there and remember how one eats an elephant.   

[Teereese]

Thank you Sad but wiser and ugghh, I feel like both of your names.

I am trying to get this over with, go no contact and move on. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

He does have a focus item left in my home and has already signed the stipulation in my favor, so that is good for me. He was so focused on foolish pride that he lost focus on the "most precious, valuable, sentimental" item and signed it away.

It's not about preventing his outbursts, those are in my favor, as he is full of feeling and not much fact, which is not so great in the court setting. I am in a not so great spot, as my kids are nearly adults. Child support is short lived. I am more focused on health insurance and higher education, as the court can order both to go far beyond 18. The plan was always for them to go to university.

He is pretty brazen and just today went against a court order but his L threatens me with contempt for his action. It is just crazy making. His L is bilking him and he doesn't even realize it. Sad. Of course, my costs match his.

I try to stay low profile. If people really knew the truth they would be shocked. I am just not interested in wasting the time and energy on enlightening people or defending myself against his BS.

I knew the end would be bad and avoided it for a long time. I just was not ready but now I am.

I just look forward to the afterwards.