Venty vent vent...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Kid's BPDm has been reasonable for about five minutes. Which has been a first since I've been in the picture. I thought it was because DH and I brought the kids out to see her (since she won't come to our state to see them). There were actually a couple of nice instances where she and DH were able to work together with zero drama and I thought maybe we were in for a few weeks of easy.

I was wrong. Today she sent DH an email about parenting time for this coming summer. In February. So it's pretty obvious she wants to lock DH in to a commitment ASAP so she can go back to being difficult, which is much easier for her.

To her credit the email was about a million times less hostile than what we usually get. Although she did twist facts and re-write history. She feels that she should have six weeks of summer parenting time because 1) DH denied her summer parenting time last year. 2) SS11 is depressed and his counselor told her it's in his best interest to spend more time with her. 3) That the magistrate made an error and forgot to include summer parenting time and 4) She gave him six weeks in the original parenting plan because she felt it was best for the kids so he should do the same.

Reality: 1) She never asked for summer parenting time last summer. 2) SS11's counselor was urging her to come to our state to see him since she was given a long weekend a month in the court order and she has refused to come and see them. 3) The order spells out all the rest of her parenting time and says she can have more "if the parties agree". The magistrate raised many concerns about her parenting so she left it in DH's hands to make the call. 4) She delayed court for a year and a half while completely denying him any access to the children and then when she couldn't delay any longer she signed the proposed parenting plan the day of court. And neglected to tell him that the children had changed school systems in that time and the Spring Break when he was supposed to have them according to the plan was happening the same week as that court date, so he did't get to see them then either. And had she not signed the plan the court most certainly would have given it to him anyway.

DH has decided he's writing her back letting her know she can't have more than two weeks (the magistrate gave her every other Christmas break which is two weeks, so the court was fine with her having that) until she starts going to court ordered counseling and she gets a bigger place to live because six people in a smalk two bedroom apartment doesn't work for six weeks at a time.

I'm sure she'll explode and blame us to the children but I'm starting to accept that it is what it is.

[Nope]

Kid's BPDm has been reasonable for about five minutes. Which has been a first since I've been in the picture. I thought it was because DH and I brought the kids out to see her (since she won't come to our state to see them). There were actually a couple of nice instances where she and DH were able to work together with zero drama and I thought maybe we were in for a few weeks of easy.

I was wrong. Today she sent DH an email about parenting time for this coming summer. In February. So it's pretty obvious she wants to lock DH in to a commitment ASAP so she can go back to being difficult, which is much easier for her.

To her credit the email was about a million times less hostile than what we usually get. Although she did twist facts and re-write history. She feels that she should have six weeks of summer parenting time because 1) DH denied her summer parenting time last year. 2) SS11 is depressed and his counselor told her it's in his best interest to spend more time with her. 3) That the magistrate made an error and forgot to include summer parenting time and 4) She gave him six weeks in the original parenting plan because she felt it was best for the kids so he should do the same.

Reality: 1) She never asked for summer parenting time last summer. 2) SS11's counselor was urging her to come to our state to see him since she was given a long weekend a month in the court order and she has refused to come and see them. 3) The order spells out all the rest of her parenting time and says she can have more "if the parties agree". The magistrate raised many concerns about her parenting so she left it in DH's hands to make the call. 4) She delayed court for a year and a half while completely denying him any access to the children and then when she couldn't delay any longer she signed the proposed parenting plan the day of court. And neglected to tell him that the children had changed school systems in that time and the Spring Break when he was supposed to have them according to the plan was happening the same week as that court date, so he did't get to see them then either. And had she not signed the plan the court most certainly would have given it to him anyway.

DH has decided he's writing her back letting her know she can't have more than two weeks (the magistrate gave her every other Christmas break which is two weeks, so the court was fine with her having that) until she starts going to court ordered counseling and she gets a bigger place to live because six people in a smalk two bedroom apartment doesn't work for six weeks at a time.

I'm sure she'll explode and blame us to the children but I'm starting to accept that it is what it is.

[Thunderstruck]

I'm not surprised about the entitlement. She might just be throwing it out there just to push DH to see how far he would go. Or she's setting him up to sound "mean" because he won't "let" her spend more time with the kids.

She might want the 6 weeks in theory, but in reality it sounds like she won't want to parent for that long.

[Nope]

Oh no. I think she does want the full six weeks. She has literally never tried being nice before. I'm kind of sad we have to tell her no. But I know the kids would be complete wrecks if she had them for that long. She can hold it together to be Disneyland mom for a few days but after even one week of working them over with alienation tactics, interrogations about what goes on in our house, and her generally making the kids responsible for all of her moods they come back a total mess and a nightmare to deal with. But those are the kids problems and not hers so she's just fine with having them for as long as she can.

DH is preemptively working on a follow up email offering her a path to having the kids for six weeks. Basically she just needs to move to a bigger place and get regular counseling as the court order requires and then he'll be willing to talk to her about longer visits next summer.

[bravhart1]

It never ceases to amaze me how they delude themselves.

She's been minimally involved and has left the heavy lifting to you and DH for how long now?

But will act like she has the right to ask for whatever she wants without fulfilling her legal obligation to seek treatment to have the kiddos in her care, and will turn it into you guys having to be the "bad guys". It never changes.

Our BPDm is in the CE right now acting like she HAS sought treatment, yet it's been minimal at best and unfruitful , she is asking for 50/50 custody, yet she is in no contact, and she is saying she doesn't understand why everyone is trying to keep her child away from her, yet they gave her a year to fix a five step spelled out in detail plan for improving her parenting, which she has not completed even the first one, and has in fact gotten worse. I'm worn out and tired of having the finger pointed at us for being the villains. We are simply choosing to try to save the one we can still help, her child. I'm sorry every day she can't see that.

[Nope]

DH and I have done everything since DH got custody a year and a half ago. Her black and white thinking has caused her to completely disengage... .Unless something triggers her. Then she sends rage filled emails and jumps down the kids throats demanding things from them to prove to herself she still has power.

When BPDm didn't say anything to DH about parenting time for last summer, SS11's counselor asked me why DH and I didn't persue her about it and offer up options for her to choose from. I honestly told the counselor that when she had the kids DH had to do all of the planning, negotiating, and bending over backwards. SS11 had said the BPDm told him, "If you want to see me then you need to work out the dates and times I'm supposed to get you with your dad because I'm not talking to him about it."  So she didn't even tell SS11 that she wanted to see him and put it all on him, or us. I told the counselor that I get that she's low functioning but it gets to the point where we're just done lowering the bar to something she can maybe meet.

That's why the first line in DH's response when he got the email  from her was to thank her for contacting him regarding summer. Though in hindsight any time we've thanked her for doing something she's never done it again.

[bravhart1]

Just the statement that she is leaving it up to the eleven year old in this scenario is enough to show she isn't able to recognize her responsibilities as the parent.

This is all too familiar for me at the moment as our BPDm has made it clear to her seven year old that it's up to her to "fix things" and get her mom out of no contact. She blatantly told SD7 that it was her fault she was given no contact because she didn't do a good enough job protecting her. Her 7y.o. hasnt spoken to a court official in almost two years, how was the 7 yo supposed to protect her? It makes me sick this child is walking around feeling responsible for her moms behaviour.

I have a meeting with CE tomorrow, I know I need to drop the bitter attitude but jeez, I'm just disgusted. It is what it is, I didn't make it this way, and if BPDm would pull her head out of her back end she could probably be back to 50/50 in a short year. I know, I know, she's sick... .I'm broke, we all have our problems.

[Nope]

know, I know, she's sick... .I'm broke, we all have our problems.

That made me laugh. It pretty much captures exactly what I've been feeling lately. Being a step parent is rough because you have to stand back and watch a child you care about and take care of get used as a weapon and emotionally tortured. All while the child getting tortured is never grateful for what you do for them and tells the parent torturing them that they are the best parent in the whole world. And all of this while having your own life/career and bills and car trouble and every other thing.

And now they are both preteens so they are at particularly intolerable ages. Some days I have to swallow the urge to tell them ':)on't you think we'd let your mother deal with you for six weeks if we could?' Just kidding. Mostly.   

[bravhart1]

Oh believe you me! The days I have my own little secret fantasy when things get rough.

The ever present lack of gratitude or appreciation. DH spent all Valentine's Day working extra shift to pay the oh so ridiculous attorney bill. So it was just me and SD, and while I understand her missing her momma don't get me wrong, it was all day of hearing about how she wanted to buy momma this, get momma that, candy, flowers, can I take her to the store to buy her jewelry etc on and on.

So even though it was about as appealing as licking a city bus seat, I loaded up our bikes and took her out for a bike adventure, picnic, goodies, two bikes on and off bike rack with my arthritis. Tried to show her a good time, wear her out, distract her, what have you.

Not a single thank you, not a "that was fun" nuthin' honey just me making the sound like a cross between a donkey and a mule.

I have my own kids I did nothing for that day, and I felt like I blew it all around.

Couple days later when she brought up again how great her mom is, and how mean I am after crying the night before about how her mom told her she was to blame for the no contact, I just wanted to say, how about I take you over there and drop you off? Then I can actually have my day off for me for a change!

But of course it's all in my fantasy, can't do that, she's not safe with the much loved mom.

And for those out there reading this judging us mean ol bitter step moms, we are in a thread called venty, vent, vent, give us this please. We eat a lot of garbage everyday because we selflessly give our energy to someone else's kid, and sometimes we need to spit some out. Peace out. 

[Thunderstruck]

I think the 3 of us have very similar biomoms.

I also have to say... .At least you two aren't still dealing with this 50/50 garbage! 

[bravhart1]

Agreed. I think if I was doing 50/50, there would be a much stronger tendancy for me to let her figure it out with her mom and therapist on her own, I would probably step WAY back knowing what I know now.

Parenting in thankless, but step parenting in a whole 'nother animal.

[Nope]

Every situation has it's pitfalls when dealing with a BPD parent. Either the kids don't see much of them and declare them a saint, the kids see too much of them and choose to live in their world of crazy because it's easier than being trapped inside as an outsider, or they see just enough of them to realize the only safe home is your home but then be mad at you for it because they can't take their feelings out on their disordered parent because it's not safe. That third option also comes with the most exchanges which are ripe for BPD bad behavior. So it's all just trading one set of problems for another. I wish I'd known that sooner.

If I had it all to do over again I don't know what I'd do different. I fought tooth and nail to get the kids out of there because of what was going on. DH did very little. He'd just had back surgery and he's always been too easily overwhelmed and paralized by his emotions when it comes to his kids, and also he doesn't have the single minded ruthlessness it takes to constantly document and investigate. I knew if we got them it would be hard because they'd both need counseling and had I ever been all that interested in being a parent I could have just had kids of my own. I love them and they absolutely need me. Like, I can't be in any room in the house without both of them right up in my grill wanting my attention. But at the end of the day someone else will always be their mom.

There was no option for 50/50 because of distance. The BPDm made it an all or nothing proposition by her behavior. Taking a step back is never an option. Except for a few hours every now and then for self-catering so I stay sane.

[ForeverDad]

DH is preemptively working on a follow up email offering her a path to having the kids for six weeks. Basically she just needs to move to a bigger place and get regular counseling as the court order requires and then he'll be willing to talk to her about longer visits next summer.

Counseling alone is not enough.  Well, unless that's all the order requires.  As bravhart1 wrote, their BPDm doesn't even go for ordered treatments and evidently wouldn't apply any of it to herself even if she did go.  So my thoughts are... .  Without a counselor's opinion that she's substantively improved and able to handle a longer period, her attendance at sessions means little or next to nothing.  Probably some monitoring too!

When BPDm didn't say anything to DH about parenting time for last summer, SS11's counselor asked me why DH and I didn't pursue her about it and offer up options for her to choose from.

I learned early in my divorce that giving options could backfire  For some reason options, even better options, triggered her and made it worse.  And certainly no reciprocity.   Tell that to the counselor!

Probably best to make it simple... .  I will consider that revisiting the issue once the responsible parties receive confirmation or reports from your counselor.

BTW, how much time in the summer does she get if she doesn't go to counseling?  I wouldn't bend the order and gift her more weeks since she may interpret that as weakness and in her entitlement demand more, as though you ought to gift her even more.

[Nope]

The reason BPDm said the court didn't give her any summer time in error is because summer is absolutely not mentioned even once in the order. Long weekends and holidays are specifically mentioned with specific times for pick up and drop off. But there is no section called "Summer" and absolutely nothing is mentioned in the order about it. As a matter of fact, the order says that she can come to our area for the third weekend of every month for parenting time in any month during the school year. Meaning, there is no provision saying she is granted any parenting time even in our area during the summer months. (Which, honestly is enough to make me think this was an error by the magistrate and she did mean to put in a heading about summer.)

The only provision by which she gets anything in the summer is, "Additional parenting time may be granted by agreement of the parties". As far as counseling goes the order simply says that she was to immediately enroll her self in counseling until the counselor says she no longer needs to be there and that she must follow all counselor recommendations.

SS11's T says it's critically important that SS11 get time with his mom. He is depressed and has anxiety because he is a black and white thinker and so when he is with one parent he will always feel sad and guilty about not being with the other parent. She feels if this was an every other weekend situation, or even if BPDm would come for visits every now and then SS11 would be doing much better. But the length and uncertainty between visits is very painful for him.

To be honest both kids have been more relaxed since we brought them up to her for a long weekend. At least for now. There is a storm coming. The kids were in a rare open mood last night and SD12 said that BPDm's BF has never been to our area before and he wants to go sight seeing. But that since it would just be the two of them for a couple of days (not his or her other kid with them) she doesn't see the point of picking SD and SS up while she's here. The kids pretended to be fine with this. SS11 kept his mouth tightly shut and SD12 had a split second where she was fighting back tears but then shoved it down and pretended that she'd rather see her mom when she could see everyone else as well and not before. DH thinks if she comes down here without seeing the kids it'll be because she's bringing us to court over summer parenting time.

[ForeverDad]

Does the order comment whether she has vacation time?  The typical orders there, if following their Standard Guideline Schedule, say up to 3 weeks vacation per calendar year with a 2 week maximum per vacation.

Perhaps DH can phrase it as 2 weeks of vacation time (or roughly equivalent to that) and provisional since the order doesn't discuss it.  Therefore he would have a basis to say, "No more than two weeks for the visit, that's the standard policy."

[Nope]

Does the order comment whether she has vacation time?  The typical orders there, if following their Standard Guideline Schedule, say up to 3 weeks vacation per calendar year with a 2 week maximum per vacation.

Perhaps DH can phrase it as 2 weeks of vacation time (or roughly equivalent to that) and provisional since the order doesn't discuss it.  Therefore he would have a basis to say, "No more than two weeks for the visit, that's the standard policy."

The order is no longer in the state it was entered. We moved the order to our state. There are no standard guidelines here. Either the parties agree, or they go in front of a judge to fight it out line by line. The closest thing I've found is articles on what parents in NY state are typically awarded. It says two weeks vacation during the summer either consecutive or non. Thanks for bringing this up. Looks like we did what would generally happen anyway by accident.

[ForeverDad]

Great!  What this does is give DH emotional reinforcement of his boundaries.  He said, "Two weeks."  She counters, "No, I want my 6 weeks!"  He holds to his boundary, knowing that unless otherwise specified or agreed he has the backing of the typical 2 week summer vacation arrangements many parents have.  He's no longer out there swinging in the wind with a target on his back, he does not need to be "overly nice" or "overly whatever".