Dealing with parental alienation

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

If they would truly embrace a lot of things, then they would not feel the way they do. But they have a condition of disordered thinking and relationships and this includes all relationships- so would this also include a relationship with God?

Yes, if they only saw God as forgiving, but what if they can not, or at least not now? We have to deal with the situation as it is- how they see their world.

[Notwendy]

If they would truly embrace a lot of things, then they would not feel the way they do. But they have a condition of disordered thinking and relationships and this includes all relationships- so would this also include a relationship with God?

Yes, if they only saw God as forgiving, but what if they can not, or at least not now? We have to deal with the situation as it is- how they see their world.

[formflier]

I think the CPS event, FF, is likely to still be a fresh wound in your wife's experience, even though it happened some time ago.

Correct,

I don't see me playing a part in healing that wound.  We talked as a family.  I asked forgiveness for my part in it.  Forgiveness was granted and life moved on with a fairly slow and steady improvement range(yes some zigs and zags but the trajectory was positive) up until recently.

Also, there is no Biblical model that I am aware of to ask for forgiveness again and again. 

One thing to get a handle on early on in counseling is how "the past" will be handled.  The Biblical model that I am aware of points a person that has granted forgiveness but is still upset to continue doing the hard work of forgiving, not confronting the "offender" again.

FF

[formflier]

My husband believes that he has repented because he said he was sorry and that I am being judgmental when I look at his actions for fruit of repentance. 

Did he say sorry, or ask for forgiveness? 

To me, and in the model of counseling and church that we are in there is a HUGE difference.

Saying sorry, asking someone to accept an apology, and asking for forgiveness are sort of a good, better, best thing.

Forgiving is about wiping out a debt that is owed.  Only the person that holds the debt (that has been wronged) can forgive that debt. 

It's a very humbling experience to go up to someone, describe something you have done that is wrong and ask for their forgiveness.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Disclaimer: I am not personally Christian, however I deeply respect many people who are.

The Christians that I respect are very concerned about their personal relationship with Christ, and clearly put a lot of effort into living their own lives in a Christian way.

There are others (many of whom are loud public figures) who express loudly how others should live their lives in a Christian way. I have, uhm, far less than respect for that type.

FF, please remember this regarding your wife and your conflicts with her, including any that come up in Biblical MC.

You have your own personal r/s with Christ, and your wife's opinions in this regard may be worthy of consideration, but ultimately do not impact that relationship. No matter how much she speaks of this to you, or how forcefully she does.

And you (as the non-, as the one who has to take the lead in this relationship if it is to work), will not do anything but harm to your marriage if you involve yourself in your wife's version of this.

Even if you can clearly see where she is in error and going in the wrong direction.

You need the strong boundaries to keep your wife from rolling over you... .and the good judgement to avoid making any attempts to do the same to her, no matter the guise of "improvement"

Meanwhile trying to find the knife edge balance of protecting your children as much as you can from her bad behavior, without making it a bigger fight that they are witnesses to / pawns in.

[formflier]

You have your own personal r/s with Christ, and your wife's opinions in this regard may be worthy of consideration, but ultimately do not impact that relationship. No matter how much she speaks of this to you, or how forcefully she does.

This will be a tricky one and will likely come up quickly.  The Biblical model of counseling has lots of homework (reading Bible and praying). 

I am guessing we will be directed to spend time praying together and discussing lessons.  I would guess the question will come up as to why we don't do that now.

My answer is this:  I respect Christ and my r/s with him.  I don't spend time praying and fellowshiping with people that devalue that r/s.  Basically calling me a fraud.  I made no attempt to sway my wife's behavior, I suspended that part of our r/s until such time as, well, things got better.

She was doing her thing at church and I was doing my thing.  She seemed positive about what she was doing when I would ask, so I left it alone and didn't push.  We did Sunday school separately but would usually sit together in the main service. 

FF

[Grey Kitty]

You have your own personal r/s with Christ, and your wife's opinions in this regard may be worthy of consideration, but ultimately do not impact that relationship. No matter how much she speaks of this to you, or how forcefully she does.

This will be a tricky one and will likely come up quickly.  The Biblical model of counseling has lots of homework (reading Bible and praying).  

I am guessing we will be directed to spend time praying together and discussing lessons.  I would guess the question will come up as to why we don't do that now.

You know my favorite question... .what good can possibly come of this.

Questions like "why don't you" are invitations to JADE, or when a pwBPD is involved, pick a fight. Don't pick up the gauntlet. And whatever you do, don't implicate her in this.

*IF* the MC is unskilled enough to ask questions like this, you need to be as smooth as a politician and refuse to provide invalidating answers that make things worse. In your shoes, I might even go as far as answering "I don't know" or "I never thought about it", were I pressed, even though that is a direct lie, which is a sin. (I see a truly honest answer as something that will harm your marriage, which seems like a worse sin.) Or perhaps a more truthful answer was "I wasn't able to do that." (How do you answer the question ":)oes this dress make my butt look big?"

Yes, it probably is the job of a Biblical MC to get you and your wife praying together. And a good one will find ways to do that job that don't invalidate (and alienate) you or your wife.

HOWEVER, unless you are incredibly lucky, this MC will not know even 1% of what you know about BPD and good communication tools and techniques for coping with it, and probably will have no clue that your wife has this sort of issue for a long time in the therapy, if ever. I would trust the MC to have good intentions for your marriage... .but not expect a good tool set around your wife's issues.

[empath]

Did he say sorry... .or ask for forgiveness?

He has asked for both. In my understanding, forgiveness is relinquishing the need for vengeance or retribution; it doesn't restore a relationship. It means that I don't try to 'get justice' for a perceived wrong. It also isn't dependent on the offender asking for it; it is an obligation that we as believers have to God and to others. There are also consequences for our actions, everything has consequences. Forgiveness doesn't free us from the consequences of our actions or of others actions. It also doesn't necessarily make a person stop hurting; it just means that the hurt party chooses not to take their hurt out on the other people. So, when I say I forgive my husband, I mean that I choose to trust God to bring about His justice rather than imposing my own.

Proper apologies are a bit more down the line toward best. They include the specific actions that a person did, why it was wrong, how the offended party felt and what the offender will do in the future.

Repentance is shown by actions that demonstrate a heart change.