His shame, my guilt, and smiling while Rome is burning

[HurtinNW]

Hello everyone!

So recently I told unemployed BPD/NPD boyfriend he can't move into my place. This seemed to be a cue to him get get in gear with selling his place... .and continuing to suggest moving into mine.

I'm struggling with a few things. One is my guilt. I really love this guy. I think he does love me... .or rather, in addition to the love his identity now seems centered on me rescuing him. I feel a lot of guilt about the idea of leaving him out in the cold. I know, the FOG... .

This is the weird thing I am dealing with now. So his money is running out, he has to sell his house, he has nowhere to go, though he will make $$ on the house and can afford a rooming situation, so he won't be homeless. But he is losing everything... .a valuable home, his relationship, chances of a good job. This is a guy who has been unemployed for almost three years, procrastinating the entire time, falling into a total crisis... .and the worse the crisis gets the MORE CHEERFUL he becomes. Seriously, he is like happy howard when he talks to me.

I am sure this is some delayed or adaptive response but his real feelings seem so deeply buried he is unaware of them. He really seems okay with walking right on the edge... .I'm serious, he has been happier acting than I have seen him in a long time. It is just so bizarre to me I have no idea how to respond, so I don't. He's going about his life like he still has an income, like nothing has changed. Like he is feeling great. Honestly he was more depressed when he was working and looking for work.

We are seeing each other less and less and he also seems happier with that. As long as he THINKS he is in a relationship with me it is like he feels he IS in a relationship... .even if we spend little time together. I am starting to feel that it is the idea of a relationship he wants, not the reality.

Anyhow, that is where I am at. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. I am charting my feelings and progress, knowing abruptly trying to end the relationship would put me in a tailspin, due to my own issues. If anyone has any suggestions on a path forward I'd appreciate it. I have seriously tried to find information on how to fall out of love with someone. My feelings for him do seem to be receding. But I still care for him...

[Notwendy]

Hi HurtinNW,

It is great that you are taking steps to take care of yourself. You have the right to choose to live your own life and are not responsible for your BF's choices.

However, your post reminded me of something I have read about. Unusually happy behavior while in the midst of his world changing and not taking steps to find a solution  can be a sign of suicidal planning. - the person acts happy because of this choice of "solution".

I don't know exactly what to do, but I am sharing this because I have heard of it. Calling the hotline could give you advice.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/compassion-matters/200906/suicide-the-warning-signs

[formflier]

I think you should approach this from a boundary point of view.

Your finances are not co-mingled, correct?

So, if that is the case, not sure why you know so much about his money.  Boundaries keep people out of your stuff and they serve as a barrier to keep you out of other peoples stuff, unless invited.

If he invites you to talk about his finances, express confidence that he will solve it, and move along.

You did great telling him about not moving in.  Can you give us details on how that went.? 

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Well, he is taking steps to change his situation by selling his house, so he's no longer stuck. Even though it's not ideal in your mind, he's making a change and perhaps that is giving him some hope and relief.

It sounds like he hasn't gotten the message that you don't want him to move in. Perhaps he's planning on going "full waif" until you rescue him.

I don't know about any "how to fall out of love" techniques. I tried to do that with my current husband years ago when we weren't together--long story--and nothing worked. What has worked, however, is getting to know him much better in recent years. I do love him, but I'm no longer "in love with him".

I think the more you really can objectively "see" this guy, without the romantic illusions, you will get there too. Good luck and stay firm about not rescuing him. He's a grown man and can take care of himself and create his own consequences through his irresponsibility.

[Notwendy]

I agree with the "falling out of love". There really isn't a way to make yourself do this, but I think we can look at love as an emotion. Emotions are important, but they are not the only thing to base our decisions on. Another way to look at love is separate from the feeling. Our feelings can change from day to day, moment to moment. When we make a long term commitment to someone, we choose to love them, even if our feelings can momentarily change. This is a different kind of love.

Sometimes love is described as that feeling we get of butterflies, head spinning, and for some people, it is the drama that enhances this. This emotional drama can be addictive. This can make it hard to let go of someone even though they may not be good for us overall.

In addition, if we grew up with dysfunctional parents, we may confuse the feelings of wanting, longing and pain of wanting with love. I think this is what I thought love was as I wanted unconditional love and validation from my parents, but I don't think they were able to give me that. It took me a long time to re frame this "feeling of love".

I think most of us have had the experience of someone we love breaking up with us. We still love them, but they don't love us. What do we do with those feelings? I also think we can love someone who isn't a good partner for us. Our ability to let go depends on our own self love. We love ourself enough to not be connected to someone who is bad for us. I think for these situations, we don't make ourselves fall out of love. I think we have to let go through a process of grief, and we can do that.

[formflier]

OK, so a guy talking with women about falling in and out of love, yeah, hopefully some of this will help.

I look at love as a feeling and a choice.  At various times over the r/s with my wife my feelings have come and gone for various reasons, or sometimes it's kinda curious because I just feel differently for no apparent reason.

I really try to not freak out about those changes in feelings, but I do want to pay attention.

When "out of love" and wanting to get back to "being in love" I go to "acts of service" and do things that I feel good about.  Spend more time with my kids because when I see traits in them that are from my wife, I tend to appreciate my wife more, which leads back to more feelings of love.

Love is also a choice.  When I took my marriage vows I "predicted" the future and created an obligation that, if I was still alive, I would be intentional about loving my wife.

OK, so, I have no experience in trying to fall out of love.  I would actually warn you a bit about that because that could be a bit like "stuffing" your feelings, which is not good.

My advice is to love him.  Don't hid your feelings (from yourself).  Enjoy them, express that love to him (be mindful of lessons and rules).  Don't focus so much on how he returns that love to you. 

Note:  Being intentional about loving someone does not mean you do unwise things.  DO NOT rescue him.  Think tough love if you have to.

On the good, better, best thing.  Rather than thinking tough love, just focus on empathy.  He has feelings about selling house and being unsure about the future.  You can validate and hang with him on that, just stay with feelings (leave the action to him).

FF

[HurtinNW]

Hi HurtinNW,

Unusually happy behavior while in the midst of his world changing and not taking steps to find a solution  can be a sign of suicidal planning. - the person acts happy because of this choice of "solution".

Notwendy, that is a good and scary point. I don't think that is what is happening. I hope not. I come from a family of suicides, my brother and mother, and the thought of dealing with that is more than I can handle. My take on him is it is perhaps more dissociative and habitual. He has a history of getting rescued by others. For most his life he was a golden boy... .sought after by employers and girlfriends. He is very handsome, very smart, charming, and so forth. With great qualities, too. But I think the result was he "got away" with stuff other people do not. Like really bad work habits, procrastinating, and being irresponsible. There was always someone there to give him another chance, a new job, or a new date.

Now he is in his 50s and I think part of him expects to have the same thing happen. He might be waking up inside to the fact he not longer is the popular younger guy. He is aging, his field is obsolete, etc. But I will definitely check out the link. Thank you!

I think you should approach this from a boundary point of view.

Your finances are not co-mingled... .correct?

So, if that is the case, not sure why you know so much about his money.  Boundaries keep people out of your stuff and they serve as a barrier to keep you out of other peoples stuff, unless invited.

If he invites you to talk about his finances, express confidence that he will solve it, and move along.

You did great telling him about not moving in.  Can you give us details on how that went.? 

FF

Hi FF! I know about his finances because before we were talking about moving in together. At one point we were engaged. But you are right it is no longer my concern.

I had thought I did okay on telling him he can't move in. I practiced SET and expressed optimism. He talked about getting a small apartment, getting a job, and us continuing therapy. But after that he seemed to keep saying he "preferred" to move in here. He kept telling me that he didn't need to move in, because he will have the money from the home, but that he wanted it. He framed this as his recognition he loves me and wants to be all in to the relationship. I think he was sincere in his way, but it is also the male version of full waif, as Catfamiliar says. Another thing he likes to say is that if he doesn't have a relationship with me nothing matters.

All this changed yesterday... .I am going to post on that on another thread.

In addition, if we grew up with dysfunctional parents, we may confuse the feelings of wanting, longing and pain of wanting with love. I think this is what I thought love was as I wanted unconditional love and validation from my parents, but I don't think they were able to give me that. It took me a long time to re frame this "feeling of love".

This hit me like a ton of bricks. Very true for me.

As I mentioned things changed yesterday, so I will post that on another thread... .

[formflier]

 you did good with the conversation.

Validate his desire for more closeness.

FF

[unicorn2014]

I appreciate your post. I went through something similar when my SO sold his house, but not entirely similar. My story is still in progress. My SO's story is also tied up with his marriage/divorce. My SO sold his 4BDR and moved into a basement, all alleged to be with me. Well, now we are embarking on year 4 and he's still living in another state, and still going through a divorce.

Because I live in below market rate housing my SO could never live with me as he makes way too much money so that takes that off the table.

I personally am even upset that I let him stay with me on visits.

I don't know if any of this is helpful but I can tell you that you are way ahead of me to be writing about this so clearly.

All I can say is trust your gut instinct. I think with pwBPD it is better to err on the side of caution.

[HurtinNW]

I appreciate your post. I went through something similar when my SO sold his house, but not entirely similar. My story is still in progress. My SO's story is also tied up with his marriage/divorce. My SO sold his 4BDR and moved into a basement, all alleged to be with me. Well, now we are embarking on year 4 and he's still living in another state, and still going through a divorce.

Because I live in below market rate housing my SO could never live with me as he makes way too much money so that takes that off the table.

I personally am even upset that I let him stay with me on visits.

I don't know if any of this is helpful but I can tell you that you are way ahead of me to be writing about this so clearly.

All I can say is trust your gut instinct. I think with pwBPD it is better to err on the side of caution.

Unicorn, the procrastination has been one of the hardest things for me to handle. I have trouble respecting it, to be completely honest. I am a self-made person, a single mom, hard working. I get how there are times we all get overwhelmed, and drop the ball. I don't get how someone who is able-bodied, smart and capable can procrastinate to the point they ruin their own life.

I had a hard time not reading his procrastination as a message "you are not worth it." It has taken me a long time, and largely reading this board, to understand it is truly about him, not me.

For almost four years I tried to get boyfriend to move in with me. At one point I evicted a tenant from my guest studio so boyfriend could use the area as his office, and stage his stuff there while he sold his house. Never happened. This is a guy who can take weeks or months to complete tasks others take a day. He misses critical deadlines and waits until the absolute last minute for things... .or past the last minute.

I also have felt upset with myself for letting him stay over. I've been upset with myself that I put my kids through this. Originally they were all excited about him. During the idealization phase he acted like he would be a great stepdad. They lost all trust in him. I am feeling better about it because I know my resentments are not helpful. My kids are mature and don't seem to have lost respect for me. It would take a lot of work on his part to regain their trust and I don't see him developing those skills.

Anyhow, just saying one thing I am really learning and taking to heart: what you see is what you get. We've both been dealing with these behaviors for four years. It's not what they say. It is what they do.

[unicorn2014]

Hurt in NW, I'm sorry you're going through all that. In the case of my fiancé he proposed to me before he divorced his wife which allowed him to have a relationship with me prematurely however I am still holding on to the relationship in the hope that he is successfully able to divorce his wife and relocate. Supposedly he's going to have a case number next week. His wife has been very difficult about the divorce process and it is unfortunate I have to be a part of it. On the other hand my fiancé is a very good stepdad to my daughter, and he has also been very helpful to me in managing my relationships with my family and helping me deal with my own mental health issues.

It sounds like you are definitely in a position to help your significant other. It is the reverse in my relationship, he is the one that has more economic and career power.

I truly believe in the saving power of boundaries. I believe if a person in a relationship with a pwBPD is able to define and uphold their values within their relationship then it can succeed.

Does your relationship present any conflicts to your values?