My being seems to be invalidating his perceptions...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

One of the things that uBPDh has been working on with his therapist is making me part of our marriage. The background is that for most of our marriage, I have been discounted, ignored, minimized etc. He asked recently what I saw when I looked at us; I said that there wasn't really an 'us' (I've said that before several times). He has also been abusive: financial, emotional, verbal, and spiritual (physical is occasionally a problem and I put some hard boundaries). He is afraid that he has 'damaged' me so much that there isn't anything left of me -- in reality, he has become much like me over the course of the years.

Yesterday, he left a book for me by my computer about women who needed to get away in order to pursue their dreams. I was confused about it because I don't feel the need to get away and am pursuing my own goals (and have been for most of our marriage). I had a suspicion that he wanted some I asked this morning about the book and said that I was confused about it because it didn't seem to apply to me. He thought that I might find it helpful in thinking through things and maybe making plans to pursue my dreams that I "had deferred". I again was confused about that and asked which dreams I had deferred. It was a career path that was a midrange part of the bigger picture of where I wanted to go. I said that I had already pursued the ultimate goal and was working on that now. I needed a different midrange goal, which I'm working on currently. He said that he was afraid that I was putting my dreams on hold because I am working on this midrange goal. In his mind, I've disengaged from activities that are crucial to my goal; I said that I was more engaged, giving concrete examples. I said that I was frustrated that he didn't seem to see what I was doing, except for this one little part of the bigger picture. He seemed to think that the little part was the end goal.

Then I asked if maybe he wanted to take a break from the marriage. He said sometimes; he feels 'stuck' with where we are. He wants to be free and 'free-spirited', but people have said that he is 'unstable' and he hears that he is irresponsible. He wants a 'happy' marriage, but feels stuck in unhappiness and said that when we talk, I just get mad at him like I was then. I said it must be hard, and that I wasn't mad or angry at him. He can't figure out why he thinks these things about me that are not what I am doing or who I am.

I can't figure out how to 'be part of the marriage' but not invalidate what he thinks about me and who I am. He seems to have this idea of my personhood that is not who I am or what I am doing.  Any suggestions?

[empath]

One of the things that uBPDh has been working on with his therapist is making me part of our marriage. The background is that for most of our marriage, I have been discounted, ignored, minimized etc. He asked recently what I saw when I looked at us; I said that there wasn't really an 'us' (I've said that before several times). He has also been abusive: financial, emotional, verbal, and spiritual (physical is occasionally a problem and I put some hard boundaries). He is afraid that he has 'damaged' me so much that there isn't anything left of me -- in reality, he has become much like me over the course of the years.

Yesterday, he left a book for me by my computer about women who needed to get away in order to pursue their dreams. I was confused about it because I don't feel the need to get away and am pursuing my own goals (and have been for most of our marriage). I had a suspicion that he wanted some I asked this morning about the book and said that I was confused about it because it didn't seem to apply to me. He thought that I might find it helpful in thinking through things and maybe making plans to pursue my dreams that I "had deferred". I again was confused about that and asked which dreams I had deferred. It was a career path that was a midrange part of the bigger picture of where I wanted to go. I said that I had already pursued the ultimate goal and was working on that now. I needed a different midrange goal, which I'm working on currently. He said that he was afraid that I was putting my dreams on hold because I am working on this midrange goal. In his mind, I've disengaged from activities that are crucial to my goal; I said that I was more engaged, giving concrete examples. I said that I was frustrated that he didn't seem to see what I was doing, except for this one little part of the bigger picture. He seemed to think that the little part was the end goal.

Then I asked if maybe he wanted to take a break from the marriage. He said sometimes; he feels 'stuck' with where we are. He wants to be free and 'free-spirited', but people have said that he is 'unstable' and he hears that he is irresponsible. He wants a 'happy' marriage, but feels stuck in unhappiness and said that when we talk, I just get mad at him like I was then. I said it must be hard, and that I wasn't mad or angry at him. He can't figure out why he thinks these things about me that are not what I am doing or who I am.

I can't figure out how to 'be part of the marriage' but not invalidate what he thinks about me and who I am. He seems to have this idea of my personhood that is not who I am or what I am doing.  Any suggestions?

[formflier]

Live your life.  If it invalidates him, give him space to soothe himself.

It appears you have avoided invalidating him by direct means.  If YOU being you invalidates him, let him sort that out.

From your exchange I would suggest a bit more validation and more open ended questions. 

Look for emotions, not answers. 

So, what is the emotion driving him wanting a break? Find that out without asking him directly about the break?

Help me understand your feelings about the marriage?  Once he says break first, Then you can deal with it

FF

[Notwendy]

If you are in the process of pursuing your goals, and he is not, then his thinking that you are not might be a projection.

When my H was looking at jobs, I made it clear that he could choose the best one for him, and that I would accommodate it. Yet, he had a resentment over choosing the job he chose and blamed me for it- even though I was clear about him having his choice. I know that he felt stuck in the marriage.

Being that I was co-dependent, I also stepped away from making plans to do things together as a response to his accusations of interfering with his goals. Perhaps I should not have reacted to them as much at the time, but they were hurtful. As a result, we share some things in common, but have separate work worlds and interests. Kind of ironic because when we started dating, we had classes and friends in common.

This situation used to bother me, but now, I see it as a balance. If one considers the push pull nature - then having the space seems to allow for that. I think there can be different ways to define an "us".  I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to have some degree of differences in work and interests.

You pursuing your goals doesn't change your H's pursuing his. He may be projecting his frustrations on to you- seeing you as holding him back. It is frustrating to be seen through projections. The only way I know how to deal with this is to still just be who I am, not JADE or try to explain. We really can not change how someone perceives others. Also, one thing I learned is that these comments- blaming me, projections, are a reflection of a feeling at the moment, they don't always last. I realize I didn't have to be as reactive to them at the time.

I agree with FF. Be you, live your life, share what overlaps, and his work world is his domain. Maybe there are ways for him to have some space if he feels stuck- a new hobby, visiting his family on his own, but he may just feel something because this is how he feels. Keep in mind that a projection isn't necessarily your fault. His feelings are his feelings to manage.

[empath]

When my H was looking at jobs, I made it clear that he could choose the best one for him, and that I would accommodate it. Yet, he had a resentment over choosing the job he chose and blamed me for it- even though I was clear about him having his choice. I know that he felt stuck in the marriage.

There have been a couple of 'jobs' that I have had to tell him that he was free to pursue those opportunities on his own, but I could not join him because of my own values. I was very clear and very direct about saying these things with very simple words; I didn't want to take a chance on being misunderstood. He chose not to pursue them, but now, he will bring those up as times that I controlled his decisions. At least when I press it, he will admit that he was unable to do it because he couldn't do them if he had to go without me. (he interprets it as co-dependence on his part)

His feelings of being stuck revolve around me and others who are evaluating him on a personal level (it is an appropriate evaluation of his leadership capacities). He has taken time away from work and the rest of life lately just to reconnect with what brings him joy and happiness. So, that's a good thing; he is also trying to bring those into his daily life more now.

I think space is a really good thing at least for me; it has proven to be so during the times when we had a bit more separation. One of the challenges for us is that he has decided to pursue goals that are in my fields, and working together has not been a positive experience in our history. He has directly told others that our goal is to work together in some capacity, so when I have talked about those goals, I say that they are probably more his goals than mine.

So... .what is the emotion driving him wanting a break? Find that out without asking him directly about the break?

There are many emotions, mostly negative. He feels ashamed of the effects of his actions on our marriage and family, and he doesn't see a lot of 'progress' in healing our relationships despite the things he is doing. He doesn't want to stay, but he is under church authority. He feels 'not welcome' at home and judged/criticized. He also wants to prove to himself that he can make it by himself without needing me -- that he won't dissolve into nothingness without me.

The other part of this is that during his young adulthood, he had a couple of girlfriends who broke up with him. It was intensely painful for him to be rejected like that, so he has 'vowed' that he wouldn't do that to anyone. So, he feels like he is between a rock and a hard place and is stuck and doesn't know how to get out.

[formflier]

 

Hmmm,

Can you and he make a map of the "road to redemption at home?  A place where he doesn't feel criticized.

Stuff he can do, and yes you. 

Basically, something he can do that will give him hope for something better.  Or, a process that clarifies he is choosing to be this way, and you can wish him well with that.

FF

[empath]

Well, I have given him an outline of the kinds of things that need to be in a plan for change -- the abusive behavior and words need to change. He was to come up with his own plan to address the issues that I brought up. There was supposed to be feedback from me about whether or not it addressed the issues and revisions that he would make. That was 10 months ago. Around 5 months ago, he came up with a plan that addresses the issues that he thinks he has; I said that it didn't really address the issues and listed the issues for him. He didn't revise the plan.

In the meantime, he has started doing some of the things on his plan (sort of... .he is in a Celebrate Recovery group for men with sexual issues -- many of the men have spouses who have left). He has also been meeting his therapist monthly and a spiritual director. He thinks that the things that we are dealing with are 'normal' marriage issues and developmental challenges rather than abuse.

I have spelled out the things that I am doing for us (weekly individual counseling, small groups, reading, working on a training program, etc.). I've been doing these things for about a year now. Marriage counseling has not been recommended by the mental health professionals due to the abuse.