Intro - and the ex from hell

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I broke up with my ex partner some time ago. I'm not sure if he is 'pure' BPD, or a psychopath with BPD traits.

The relationship has been recycled more times than I can even count. Each time I left him, as his errant, destructive, devaluing, manipulative, cheating, lying, spiteful, game playing behavior gave me no choice but to leave him. He escalated these behaviors each time I went back - usually soon after luring me back. The one exception to that is the very last cycle - he 'behaved' (mostly) for three months, which is a record (usually he could only manage a couple of weeks, at best!). There were a couple of slips in those three months, but nothing compared to his usual grand scale.

But of course he did eventually slip, at which point he really excelled himself. A two-week hell which began with devaluing and other ploys to cause an argument, so that he could go out and pick up other women - which was made a bit too obvious. So of course I left him again.

That cycle finally culminated with him breaking into my home. I wasn't in, so he went outside screaming and shouting and caused a huge drama outside involving my neighbors, getting them out of their beds at 2am to 'help' him - he reveled in telling a 21 year old neighbor girl about our 'relationship issues', which he interspersed with lies. I arrived home to that conversation going on, on my doorstep beside the broken door - a huge pane of glass smashed.

I was in complete shock to arrive back to this and went in to survey the damage. He'd broken other things in my home, torn down curtains and coat rails, damaged furniture, etc, gone through my drawers and cupboards and strewn my things about. Eventually, he followed me in and screamed at me, then forced me onto the table, face down and held me there with a blade to my neck whilst screaming that he was going to kill me, and then kill himself. He refused to leave until the following evening. After all of that, of course I will never go back to him again.

I've been out for eighteen months now but still he persists. I worked towards no contact, thinking it safer to wean him off rather than go cold turkey. This was to avoid him turning up at my home again, which a total, sudden absence of contact would likely have lead to. So I changed my cellphone number but not my landline - nor did I block his emails, feeling a need to monitor these for danger/threats.

Eventually I managed five months of no contact. Then I lapsed around Christmas because he emailed that he had let it go himself and no hard feelings. He seemed genuine and for 3 months prior to that, he'd made few attempts to contact - and never at weekends. I thought he'd found someone new and so it was 'safe' to respond and say goodbye. Bad mistake. The cycle of contact was renewed and come January, he was back to his old tricks and persisting again. Now I think he was seeing someone for a few months but she wouldn't put up with his nonsense - or perhaps she is also someone he causes arguments with then recycles, which seems more likely.

So now I'm here to learn and hopefully to heal. He's not my first experience of Cluster B relationships. I have FOO issues, and am a little 'fixer' (possibly Co-D) so I'm not sure I will ever trust my judgement again, when it comes to partnering with someone healthy for a 'romantic' relationship. But I hope I can get past that. For the time being, I've been happy to focus on my life and my work, but ultimately I probably won't want to be alone forever.

[Sattva]

I broke up with my ex partner some time ago. I'm not sure if he is 'pure' BPD, or a psychopath with BPD traits.

The relationship has been recycled more times than I can even count. Each time I left him, as his errant, destructive, devaluing, manipulative, cheating, lying, spiteful, game playing behavior gave me no choice but to leave him. He escalated these behaviors each time I went back - usually soon after luring me back. The one exception to that is the very last cycle - he 'behaved' (mostly) for three months, which is a record (usually he could only manage a couple of weeks, at best!). There were a couple of slips in those three months, but nothing compared to his usual grand scale.

But of course he did eventually slip, at which point he really excelled himself. A two-week hell which began with devaluing and other ploys to cause an argument, so that he could go out and pick up other women - which was made a bit too obvious. So of course I left him again.

That cycle finally culminated with him breaking into my home. I wasn't in, so he went outside screaming and shouting and caused a huge drama outside involving my neighbors, getting them out of their beds at 2am to 'help' him - he reveled in telling a 21 year old neighbor girl about our 'relationship issues', which he interspersed with lies. I arrived home to that conversation going on, on my doorstep beside the broken door - a huge pane of glass smashed.

I was in complete shock to arrive back to this and went in to survey the damage. He'd broken other things in my home, torn down curtains and coat rails, damaged furniture, etc, gone through my drawers and cupboards and strewn my things about. Eventually, he followed me in and screamed at me, then forced me onto the table, face down and held me there with a blade to my neck whilst screaming that he was going to kill me, and then kill himself. He refused to leave until the following evening. After all of that, of course I will never go back to him again.

I've been out for eighteen months now but still he persists. I worked towards no contact, thinking it safer to wean him off rather than go cold turkey. This was to avoid him turning up at my home again, which a total, sudden absence of contact would likely have lead to. So I changed my cellphone number but not my landline - nor did I block his emails, feeling a need to monitor these for danger/threats.

Eventually I managed five months of no contact. Then I lapsed around Christmas because he emailed that he had let it go himself and no hard feelings. He seemed genuine and for 3 months prior to that, he'd made few attempts to contact - and never at weekends. I thought he'd found someone new and so it was 'safe' to respond and say goodbye. Bad mistake. The cycle of contact was renewed and come January, he was back to his old tricks and persisting again. Now I think he was seeing someone for a few months but she wouldn't put up with his nonsense - or perhaps she is also someone he causes arguments with then recycles, which seems more likely.

So now I'm here to learn and hopefully to heal. He's not my first experience of Cluster B relationships. I have FOO issues, and am a little 'fixer' (possibly Co-D) so I'm not sure I will ever trust my judgement again, when it comes to partnering with someone healthy for a 'romantic' relationship. But I hope I can get past that. For the time being, I've been happy to focus on my life and my work, but ultimately I probably won't want to be alone forever.

[thisagain]

Welcome to bpdfamily! I'm glad you found us.

First things first, do you have a plan and protections for your physical safety? The break-in and violence that you describe is very scary to me. No matter how many times you "lapse" or make the "mistake" of contacting him, you deserve to be safe. Even if it's been a while since that incident, it's a good idea to think through a safety plan in case he comes back.

You'll find a lot of support here to help you move past the "fixer"/codependent traits. A good place to start is: Dealing with Enmeshment and Codependence

For a while it'll probably seem inconceivable that you could be in a healthy relationship, but that will get better as you keep focusing on yourself and detaching from your ex. What level of contact have you had with him since January?

You're in the right place and we're here to help! Hang in there.

[Herodias]

So sorry you went through all of that madness! I can relate... .It seems that the behavior is very similar to being in an abusive relationship. I have read books on this and the story is the same... .the domestic violence people told me this as well. Every time you take them back, they step up the abuse from the last time. Mine would be good about 3 months as well... But with all the gas lighting, lying and such, it's hard to know for sure. All I know is they respect you less and less each time you are willing to take them back. Has yours had any therapy? I have to say that my ex has had tons! They only learn more behaviors from it, but it helps me in that I was finally able to tell him " I know what you are and you can't play games with me anymore- I do not deserve it"  He has left me alone for the most part. Mine is off having a baby with someone else... .terrifying! I think his Mother should warn her... .You do have to stay away. Work on yourself and just forget about relationships for now. I study everything I can on psychopaths, BPD and Narcissists. I look at everyone I do not know as potentially crazy. I know it seems harsh, but I am a bit of a recluse except for work. I go out occasionally, but I have to say I am happy to be alone and not interested in dating at all. This kind of a relationship will scare you off from dating. I do not want to be alone ultimately either, but I finally would rather be alone than end up with another personality disordered, addict or abuser. I feel like I spot them pretty quickly now. Even for my friends. It's how we should have been all along. Study what you can and be careful. You may need a restraining order. I am a fixer as well, but we know now you cannot fix someone... .we need to fix us so that we don't think we can do that in the future. Find someone that does not need fixing. Everyone had imperfections- just find the ones you can deal with those imperfections and find out very slowly... .The number one clue to me is there is no such thing as "prince charming" That's the fastest way to spot them in my book... .but put that off for now. We will keep attracting them if we are not prepared. I can see it all clearly now. Good luck- glad you got out safe! Mine was big with knives and guns... .It is terrifying- I have been there - Don't ever go back.

[Sattva]

Welcome to bpdfamily! I'm glad you found us.

First things first, do you have a plan and protections for your physical safety? The break-in and violence that you describe is very scary to me. No matter how many times you "lapse" or make the "mistake" of contacting him, you deserve to be safe. Even if it's been a while since that incident, it's a good idea to think through a safety plan in case he comes back.

You'll find a lot of support here to help you move past the "fixer"/codependent traits. A good place to start is: Dealing with Enmeshment and Codependence

For a while it'll probably seem inconceivable that you could be in a healthy relationship, but that will get better as you keep focusing on yourself and detaching from your ex. What level of contact have you had with him since January?

You're in the right place and we're here to help! Hang in there.

Thank you @thisagain. I'm really glad to have found bpdfamily. Thank you for the sage advice.

Re. plan and protections for your physical safety: You are right, he is dangerous and I shouldn't be complacent. I will put a safety plan in place. I've thought about it now and know what I need to do. Thank you!

Re. Finding a healthy relationship: I'm not in a rush and for sure I've got some healing to do yet. I've been working on my boundaries - I was really a lot better with these even well before the last cycle (which was after 6 months away from him). By the final time, I told him upfront that I would no longer put up with his games or disrespectful speech, so this is why he was so 'well behaved' for 3 months (as mentioned, it was a record!). I now see red (and yellow) flags for what they are - abort mission immediately! and do not go back! But I guess what concerns me is that he began to show these flags to me pretty quickly, whereas I know that others have experienced a long 'idealize' phase and it took quite some time (in some cases, even years) for the bad behaviours to be shown - 'overtly', anyway. This is a worry! I do seem to be some kind of magnet for Cluster B types - maybe it's being Co-D. I will check out the link you shared and other resources - I already have a few pages printed from before I posted tonight. So much help and answers here! Thank you

Re. What level of contact have you had with him since January? Quite a few back and forth emails, in spates. Too many. I got drawn back in but that has now stopped - about ten days ago. I sent the last one. He's phoned a couple of times during those ten days, but I didn't answer and I won't reply if he emails again.

In the emails I repeat myself over and over. Instead of framing it as 'I'm not interested' - which I do say, but it's much less what I focus on - I try to frame this as him rejecting me rather than vice-versa. I more focus on: I'm not your type (he used to drop me in a heartbeat to chase after 'sexy' dressers with maximum skin on show, tattoos, and extrovert loud/histronic/attention seeking behaviour - I'm a jeans and T-shirt wearing inkless introvert!). I don't share your interests (going to late night bars and clubs with his boys chatting up women, getting blind drunk, diving face first into white powder, getting home at 6am and continuing the 'party' - I like to stay home and read or make things, or have a quiet dinner with just one friend or family!).

Of course he insists that I am his type, that he wants no one else (and never has done! which is absolute nonsense; chasing after/openly lusting after others is all he ever does) and that he doesn't want to 'go out all the time' and 'is probably done with that lifestyle now'. Back and forth it goes like that - like a pantomime. I read through the history of emails this weekend and it struck me so hard that for three years this same dialogue has been going on, every time we broke up. For three years I've been saying pretty much exactly the same stuff. So I need to look at that. It's kind of like a dog chasing its tail, round and round and not even realising it's been doing it for hours... .days... .weeks... .years. Some kind of insanity.

[Sattva]

So sorry you went through all of that madness! I can relate... .It seems that the behavior is very similar to being in an abusive relationship. I have read books on this and the story is the same... .the domestic violence people told me this as well. Every time you take them back, they step up the abuse from the last time.

Absolutely! I read a forum where psychopaths post and there was a thread where they discussed this. It's about pushing the targets boundaries further and further until they break completely, with an ultimate aim of destroying the targets sanity and sense of self. I see this so much with my ex. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance for some survivors around the subject of being charmed (efforts to suck you back in for another cycle) - of seeing charms as demonstrating our 'value', but in the worst case scenarios (such as my ex) it's clear the only value I have to him is an object to be destroyed. Any time someone is lured back, only to quickly experience the same mistreatment as before, but worse, then that is the true scenario - and usually the cycle is shorter each time too, with much less good behaviour preceding the ever-worsening bad behaviour.

Mine would be good about 3 months as well. But with all the gas lighting, lying and such, it's hard to know for sure. All I know is they respect you less and less each time you are willing to take them back.

For me that 3 months was a one off - at the end. An anomale that doesn't fit the pattern - usually just 2 or 3 weeks before 'the blow'. But I had called him out on what he is - just as you did. So he was trying to conceal it and prove me wrong ('prove it' = his favorite words!). He is perfectly capable of being covert - although he didn't usually bother hiding much from me, he was covert with his previous ex for 7 years. He told me some of the things he did behind her back, as well as his plentiful silent treatments, etc - always passive aggressive and coverT. She has no idea what he was up to and thinks he's 'a lovely guy who just has commitment issues'.

Has yours had any therapy? I have to say that my ex has had tons! They only learn more behaviors from it,

He didn't just have therapy - he trained to be a therapist (counselor). I think the training is something that's offered after rehab - i.e. training to help others in the same position. I suspect this was the case with him, though he wasn't open about why he got into it - he was beyond vague, and actually evasive. He had absolutely no desire to work as a counselor and when I asked why he made a noise along the lines of 'wanting to understand peoples inner workings'. And yes, he definitely used it to get right inside my head and open up every little wound. Later, he used what he's found out against me. 'Therapy' with him comprised the opener to each date for about the first month I was seeing him - he'd arrive, sit right down at my table and begin with the probing and questions straight away - until one day I asked him to stop, explaining that I knew he was trying to help but that it was making me feel worse - really down, nervous and low self-esteemed. I really should have paid more attention to what I was feeling there. He did stop - and immediately began to use what he'd discovered, right after that - but with so little insight... .his view of these things was twisted beyond recognition.

but it helps me in that I was finally able to tell him " I know what you are and you can't play games with me anymore- I do not deserve it"  He has left me alone for the most part.

You are very lucky! I wish mine would leave me alone. I think some are worse than others for hording their exes - like little puppets to pull the strings of occasionally for larks, just to see if they still have life in them - to get a rise. I'm not sure we can ever be complacent. I've heard examples of charming attempts out of the blue, decades later. But when I finally move house, he will never find me again - I look forward to that day!

Mine is off having a baby with someone else... .terrifying!I think his Mother should warn her... .You do have to stay away. Work on yourself and just forget about relationships for now.

Absolutely. I've no intention to get into a relationship any time soon - so much inner work to do, plus v focused on some long term projects. But when I eventually do, I will take the 'getting to know you' phase very slow and watch like a hawk for red/yellow flags and tells, plus throw out a few tests (e.g. challenge an expressed opinion and watch for any reaction that suggests such a challenge has inflicted narcissistic injury). I don't think we can ever be completely immune - they will be covert if they have to. But if we become careful, inquisitive observers, I think there will always be tells - masks covering emptiness lack the depth of reality.

He failed terribly when he tried to mirror me. Really it was so bad I laughed the very first time, it was that obvious something was up! He said something like "I always knew I'd find 'the one' and live happily ever after!" - and he said it in this little-girly, higher-pitched, sing-songy way - which I did soon after come to realise was also the voice he used when he told me one of his fatter lies. This voice and statement came from a 45 year old thug of a man who is the spitting image of 'Hellboy', normally has a voice like gravel and has made his way into hundreds of escort's beds (but stopped doing that years ago - of course!). Catastrophic failure on the mirroring = no wonder he went for 'overt mode' instead!

I study everything I can on psychopaths, BPD and Narcissists. I look at everyone I do not know as potentially crazy. I know it seems harsh, but I am a bit of a recluse except for work. I go out occasionally, but I have to say I am happy to be alone and not interested in dating at all. This kind of a relationship will scare you off from dating. I do not want to be alone ultimately either, but I finally would rather be alone than end up with another personality disordered, addict or abuser. I feel like I spot them pretty quickly now. Even for my friends. It's how we should have been all along. Study what you can and be careful. You may need a restraining order.

Very similar studies, approach and attitude. I was alone (completely - not even kisses) for 4 years before I met him and really I like being alone. Still, I don't think I'll want to be alone forever - but yes, I'll take that any day over someone who takes me off track! I would also skip the drinkers - even if they're not full blown alcoholics. The pub is a normal pastime in my country but I generally find it so dull. It's OK to have a meal by the fireside in a cosy country pub - but then quit it! Quite another to go to a pub for hours on end with a man who wants to neck drink all evening. I'll be delighted to never have to sit through that again!

I am a fixer as well, but we know now you cannot fix someone... .we need to fix us so that we don't think we can do that in the future. Find someone that does not need fixing. Everyone had imperfections- just find the ones you can deal with those imperfections and find out very slowly... .The number one clue to me is there is no such thing as "prince charming" That's the fastest way to spot them in my book... .but put that off for now. We will keep attracting them if we are not prepared. I can see it all clearly now.

Thank you. That is some great advice - and clearly advice that I really do need. Pretty clued up on Cluster B's now - but to the detriment of working out my own issues... .So I'm still doing it, aren't I? Little miss fixer - always focusing outwards instead of within. What is that? Fear maybe? Hmm. Oh dear. Well, I'm in the right place to look at this at last - and for this I'm very grateful!

Good luck- glad you got out safe! Mine was big with knives and guns... .It is terrifying- I have been there - Don't ever go back.

I'm glad you got out safe too! And no, I will never go back. Eighteen months free and so much happier. Once I was fully out, I realised that I don't even like him as a person. Not sure quite how I stayed blinkered on that one - the push/pull games I guess.

[letmeout]

I am glad you are all safe, I like reading other's stories because it really reinforces me to never break no contact.

Mine is still on, and will probably always be on a smear campaign because I divorced him and told everyone why. BPD NPD's hate being exposed for what they are. He will always be a vindictive, lying, thieving soulless human without the ability to to distinguish between reality and his disillusions. 

It is sad that so many people are afflicted with these disorders. I would love to find a companion to love, but it can take a long time to heal from that type of abuse.   But we can prevail and be happy. Best of luck for all of us!

[Sattva]

I am glad you are all safe, I like reading other's stories because it really reinforces me to never break no contact.

Taking this sage advice, thank you. My ex baited me in a new way when the old way no longer worked - but then he was back to the same old game. That's clear now and I won't get drawn in again.

Mine is still on, and will probably always be on a smear campaign because I divorced him and told everyone why. BPD NPD's hate being exposed for what they are. He will always be a vindictive, lying, thieving soulless human without the ability to to distinguish between reality and his disillusions.  

It is sad that so many people are afflicted with these disorders. I would love to find a companion to love, but it can take a long time to heal from that type of abuse.   But we can prevail and be happy. Best of luck for all of us!

I'm slowly coming to the realisation that most (if not all) of my romantic relationships have been with Cluster B personality disordered men - several are so extreme as to be clearly diagnosable as psychopathic/BPD (including my first 'love' at 15 y/o - he was off the chart) - and at the very least, certainly men who are selfish, unempathic, and high in narcissistic traits. Their infidelity/general extreme need for female validation (of a sexual variety) from women external to the relationship has been the biggest issue for me.

It's increasingly clear to me that this ties into my FOO issues - a highly manipulative, and undoubtedly personality disordered, alcoholic father, who was abusive to - and cheated on - my mother. She did kick him out when I was a baby - though she took him back when I was about 8 y/o - that was a horrific time, while it lasted - a year, six months I don't know but as well as witnessing horrific fights between them, he was rotten to me in this time too - though not my older siblings for whom he had more affection.

For the most part, I'm repeating this pattern in some form - over and over again. I am choosing this kind of man for my romantic partner. But it's not obvious to me how I keep getting into this fix - sure, I've not been leaving when I should (or rather; not staying gone when I should), but I don't quite understand know how I've been ending up with these guys in the first place. I am resolving to stay away from drinkers (and other addicts), also to join one of the 12-step groups for 'family members of alcoholics', and to do the inner work required to heal myself and understand this - and stop repeating it - before I even consider someone as a romantic prospect again.

[Herodias]

I will say, mine still contacts me occasionally just to see what I will respond to, but for the most part, he knows I am not ever taking him back. We used to talk about psychology allot and he knows I took classes with NAMI... he was paranoid to be found out then. So, when I say to him "I know what you are"- I think he believes me... .even though I am not really sure myself, ... .He has all the BPD, NPD and Anti-social traits! I think BPD fits him most. It better to appear strong and knowledgeable to the ones that know they are mentally ill. They say not to tell the ones that don't because it just starts a new fight. Mine has been in and out of so may hospitals, mental wards and therapists offices most of his life... .he knows. At least he knows he is mentally ill, not necessarily what he has specifically. His military paperwork said he had  PTSD and a personality disorder ... .nothing more.  I asked him when he was trying to tell me he was so honest now, if he told his gf he was mentally ill and their child might be... ? He never answered... .  Sometimes I just like to get him back, since I am away from him now... .; ) He is still lying. That will never change. I think he is telling everyone I cheated on him... .I know he has told some people that story. He was demoted at work... .from a store manager to a stock clerk! His mother said he will crash and burn... .she was correct. I suppose she knows him best. I wish I knew more of what she knows... .not sure she would ever fully tell me everything, but I know allot. She says she prefers to not talk about all the bad stuff, since she has to deal with him the rest of her life. I used to think she was cold... .now I understand.  My previous 8 year r/s was with a drug addict. I really have been through it! I think thats why I fell for the love-bombing, because I was fresh out of the other bad one. I know I will never fall for this or be with an alcoholic or drug addict again! This I know for sure... .I am too tired!

[Sattva]

His mother said he will crash and burn... .she was correct. I suppose she knows him best. I wish I knew more of what she knows... .not sure she would ever fully tell me everything, but I know allot. She says she prefers to not talk about all the bad stuff, since she has to deal with him the rest of her life. I used to think she was cold... .now I understand.

His backlash/black-splitting of her would be the likely net result of him finding out she'd divulged anything to you. If she is trying to help him, then she has to guard against this (big 'if'.

But you could question; why has she told you any of it? And at what point?

On the one hand, one realm of possibility - the 'healthier' possibilities - is because she does feel she either ought to warn you. Or that she needs to talk about this with 'someone else who knows' - i.e. someone whom she can more safely share the burden of this discussion with. But there is a cut off point beyond which she knows she can't discuss or it really will provoke his ire - and then she won't be able to help him. (Does she genuinely try to help him?)

On the other hand is a decidedly unhealthy branch of possibility. To get a gauge on this, I would consider how she's framing these conversations. Basically, does her discussion come across like 'put-downs', or does she instead seem to be feeling 'genuine concern' for him? If it's the former, I would suspect that he's grown up being told by her that he'll never amount to anything - that she is in fact the cause of his issues. A personality disordered mother does take the sins of the father out on the son - a kind of 'object extension', if you will.

Certainly it's the case with my ex that his mother devalued him, as well as physically and emotionally abusing him from a very young age. It's also the case that his father (a man who he had seen about in the village, but had no idea he was the man's son until he was middle aged himself) is a dyed in the wool psychopath. Still, his mother clearly has personality difficulties herself - if those 'difficulties' are sufficient to qualify as a full blown PD, I don't know.  Anyway, I would say don't be too quick to dismiss your original intuition/perception of her as being 'cold'. Bear in mind that you are in a different position now - as someone else 'bashing' him - an ally in devaluation, rather than an obstacle to it.

I do think BPD is more 'nurture' - or rather, lack of healthy nurture. Growing up in an abusive environment, and being told - or made to feel - there is little or nothing good or valuable about yourself.

Whereas I think primary psychopathy is much more 'nature' - there are so many stark differences in a primary psychopath's brain structure, brain function, and neurochemistry - as well as some other functions (e.g. psychopaths have a low resting heart rate, which leads to excitatory sensation seeking as a means of increasing the heart rate).

[thisagain]

It's increasingly clear to me that this ties into my FOO issues - a highly manipulative, and undoubtedly personality disordered, alcoholic father, who was abusive to - and cheated on - my mother. She did kick him out when I was a baby - though she took him back when I was about 8 y/o - that was a horrific time, while it lasted - a year, six months I don't know but as well as witnessing horrific fights between them, he was rotten to me in this time too - though not my older siblings for whom he had more affection.

For the most part, I'm repeating this pattern in some form - over and over again. I am choosing this kind of man for my romantic partner. But it's not obvious to me how I keep getting into this fix - sure, I've not been leaving when I should (or rather; not staying gone when I should), but I don't quite understand know how I've been ending up with these guys in the first place. I am resolving to stay away from drinkers (and other addicts), also to join one of the 12-step groups for 'family members of alcoholics', and to do the inner work required to heal myself and understand this - and stop repeating it - before I even consider someone as a romantic prospect again.

This is all really great insight!  While it's very tempting and can feel temporarily cathartic to fixate on exactly what's wrong with our exes, the best thing going forward is to try to figure out how you ended up with someone like that (or why you stayed) and how you can do things differently in the future.

A lot of people end up in relationships with dynamics that mimic those of their FOO, like you point out. In some cases the BPD ex and parent have similar disorders/pathologies. And for absolutely everyone, our families teach us certain ways of responding to things and teach us to have a certain "comfort zone." It takes a lot of introspection to realize that the "comfort zone" isn't actually working for you, and find out what you need to do to get out of that place. It sounds like you're off to a good start here! Again I'd encourage you to focus on yourself and not on generalizations about groups of potential partners like drinkers or even people with BPD. Although you do want to think about why you've ignored obvious red flags in the past, and learn to identify and respond appropriately to those red flags rather than seeing them as benign or even attractive.

What do you think kept you from leaving, or not staying gone, when you knew you should have? What was going on with your feelings about the relationship at that point? Maybe we can start at that stage of the relationship and then backtrack to figure out what drew you in at the beginning... .

[Sattva]

A lot of people end up in relationships with dynamics that mimic those of their FOO, like you point out. In some cases the BPD ex and parent have similar disorders/pathologies. And for absolutely everyone, our families teach us certain ways of responding to things and teach us to have a certain "comfort zone." It takes a lot of introspection to realize that the "comfort zone" isn't actually working for you, and find out what you need to do to get out of that place. It sounds like you're off to a good start here! Again I'd encourage you to focus on yourself and not on generalizations about groups of potential partners like drinkers or even people with BPD. Although you do want to think about why you've ignored obvious red flags in the past, and learn to identify and respond appropriately to those red flags rather than seeing them as benign or even attractive.

What do you think kept you from leaving, or not staying gone, when you knew you should have? What was going on with your feelings about the relationship at that point? Maybe we can start at that stage of the relationship and then backtrack to figure out what drew you in at the beginning... .

Thank you thisagain, for your thoughtful response. To explain: I had no qualms leaving him when he bulldozed across my boundaries - and so many times he did this, it is clear to me that doing so is a game to him. Each time he did this I left, and each time I meant it - these departures weren't attempts to manipulate him into treating me properly. I went back because he kept contacting me, and he would do this for months and months - however long was necessary, until I finally gave in. (And it has gone on for the year and a half since I left for good determined to not get suckered again. He never stops.) He was always so determined and pushing, telling me he would not give up, I meant so much to him, he couldn't stop thinking about me, was tormented and in pain without me. Seeming to be repentant for what he'd done, though never actually apologizing - and this part really is key. He would get me back and then do the exact same thing that made me leave before - but sooner, and WORSE. Over and over again.

I have no doubt it was a game to him. He actually told me he used to upset his LTR ex in the same way (flirting with other women in front of her and behaving in such a way that she would think there was something going on with them, and that she - his girlfriend - meant nothing to him, etc). Shocked by this admission (which he said like a brag, not a 'confession' I asked him why on earth he would do such a thing to hurt someone he purported to care about, and to make her feel insecure and unsafe in the relationship. His response was "because it was a laugh." And there was major fall-out from this game he played - for instance his GF went to the house of one of his exes and physically attacked her. His GF thought he and his ex were seeing each other on the sly, due to him behaving in such a way as to make her draw this logical conclusion.

He tells so many lies - literally compulsively - and this, combined with his behaviour towards other women, and his hints ABOUT other women, meant it was impossible to trust him. In the end I had no doubt that he cheats, and I felt I had sufficient evidence to draw this conclusion - and really that I was an idiot for ever doubting it and being persuaded back so many times. But it is never enough evidence for HIM to concede that I have THE RIGHT to leave him. (Seriously, this is the way he sees it.) Well, I always have that 'right' to leave someone who plays mind games and doesn't treat me with respect or care. Everyone has the right to leave when they aren't happy in a relationship - he somehow thinks he owns me (yes, he has said this).

So this is why I say the issue wasn't leaving - it was staying gone. But now this is fixed - I will never go back to him again.