Councelor fit

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello everyone, I just left a meeting with my councelor. She works with pwBPD and she's very empathetic toward them. The thing is she has never lived with one and her depth of experience and knowledge about gaslighting, PTSD and Stockholm syndrome are very limited.

I have limited sourses for councelors in my area, called around yesterday to find possible support groups or any profession councelors that have a better undestanding of the extreme trauma involved with being in relationships with pwBPD.

I'm frustrated and as others have confirmed, no one knows what we've been through but us.

My councelor really has no idea, I will have to look for someone else.

I am grateful for this forum and all the help I have recieved.

[JerryRG]

Hello everyone, I just left a meeting with my councelor. She works with pwBPD and she's very empathetic toward them. The thing is she has never lived with one and her depth of experience and knowledge about gaslighting, PTSD and Stockholm syndrome are very limited.

I have limited sourses for councelors in my area, called around yesterday to find possible support groups or any profession councelors that have a better undestanding of the extreme trauma involved with being in relationships with pwBPD.

I'm frustrated and as others have confirmed, no one knows what we've been through but us.

My councelor really has no idea, I will have to look for someone else.

I am grateful for this forum and all the help I have recieved.

[confusedandangry]

I had to stop seeing a counselor and started seeing a therapist.  My counselor was not very understanding about my situation.  It felt like she was taking sides with the pwBPD.  I finally went to the therapist and this is when I started healing. 

[JerryRG]

Thank you confused

I need to move on, like yours she's way to empathetic to pwBPD apposed to us nons. I understand because modern therapy has been feminized, seen this on Shrink for Men. Borderlines and apologists. And she simply cannot understand what pwBPD are capable of. She sees them in her office which means the pwBPD who are well enough to accept they need help.

My exBPD was right out of hell.

[once removed]

hey JerryRG  

it may help to find a therapist who does specialize in BPD, however, be mindful that for the most part, while a therapist will allow you to vent, and may provide you insight into the disorder, they will primarily keep the focus on you.

I understand because modern therapy has been feminized, seen this on Shrink for Men. Borderlines and apologists. And she simply cannot understand what pwBPD are capable of. She sees them in her office which means the pwBPD who are well enough to accept they need help.

shrink4men is an antifeminist site, mind you, and there is an ideology behind those views. its also largely the lower functioning pwBPD that seek help, usually after they are hospitalized.

what is it youre looking for in a counselor or therapist? it may help to clarify.

[JerryRG]

Validation validation validation

Not sure but I'm just not able to absorb what happened or how to frame this whole relationship. Nothing makes sense and my biggest fear is why I kept trying and why I didn't listen to my instincts and leave the first time I knew KNEW she was a pathologic lier and completely pshychotic.

So yes this is all about me and being NC 4 months I'm remembering horrible truths that I somehow consciencely or subconsciously denied.

I cannot think about her without anger and fear, I gave her so much power, if she suddenly got well and tried to come back into my life I'm not sure I would cave, knowing all I know already.

I'm not sure if any of you know much about alcoholism or drug addiction but I will try to explain. Addiction is basically insanity, the addict chooses to engage in behaviours that destroy themselves and those around them. What seems fun becomes an escape then a deadly trap.

This is how I view my exBPDgf, I would swear with my dying breath to never return to her and yet, wala I would be right back talking and making up and reengaged with her. Pure insanity!

I do NOT trust myself anymore, I can never trust her again either.

Yes I fear for protection yet from myself?

I had no problem quitting drinking and smoking but this addiction has me by the throat.

I hope you can understand because I cannot.

Thank you

[confusedandangry]

It makes sense, but let me tell you how I made sense and was able to move forward.  I did this more.so without the help of a counselor or therapist.  I had to realize that there is nothing and I mean nothing about the relationship that was real.  Their love was as real as they could give, but they themselves are not a whole person.  They mirror who WE are... .I fell in love with ME... .even though she lied about nearly everything, it was to mold into my world.  The more you try to figure her brain out, the more confused you are going to become.  I had to hear about the lies, see the replacement, feel the disrespect for me to realize she was toxic.  You are spending way to much time and energy focusing on their issues and not enough on you.  We or rather most of us stay because we are rescuers... .we try to love someone into loving us more.  We are codependent... .we do not set healthy boundaries.  That is what you should be focusing on in counseling... .I told mine I never ever wanted to walk thru the hell I just did... .I never wanted to be in the mindframe of suicide over anyone.  I still have my days where I miss that "connection" I thought we had... .but, they do not connect with people like we do.  For your sake, please focus on you.  Venting and asking questions on here helped me understand my exBPD and some of her actions... .but, my therapist is helping me figure out how to avoid them forever. 

[JerryRG]

Thank you confusedandangry

I totally agree, I am working on my CD, in AA and Alanon. I am in recovery, I feel/think since I did display such poor bounderies that by keeping my awareness of pwBPD and possibly helping others I won't fall back into denial or God forbid another toxic relationship.

I am still having obsessive thoughts and when I do I pray then come here to help or vent to help myself see the truth.

Strangest thing is I cannot believe things happened. Like a dream

My councelor is saying the same things you are and I believe you are both right.

Thank you so much, I am only seeking the truth, and as we all know truth may be slapping me in the face but I just don't see it or choose not too. I know I'm much better and I do so appriciate your concern and experience and hope. I am listening and I am teachable if not way to stubborn for my own good.

[confusedandangry]

Are you making time to go out with friends?  What is something fun you have planned this weekend?  Do you keep a journal?  Asking these questions because these are questions I was asked... .my breakup was only a month ago.  These are things I make myself do... .every day I find something I am now grateful for.  Today it was I am grateful that I came out with just a few bruises and a mental scar that time will heal.  I found out my exBPD has been violent with all others and has been arrested for it before me... I make plans with friends at least twice a week... .even if it is just to go walk, watch a funny movie or dinner.  I have found a new routine... .I have removed things in the house that reminds me of her... .I have set a personal goal of getting my healthy body back (I call it a revenge body, but I'm really doing it for me)... .if I feel like crying, I cry, but I don't stay there... .I am kind to myself... .and honestly, I am forgiving me for allowing someone to do me the way she did.  I saw the red flags, but chose not to leave, for whatever reason... .I am going to forgive myself for it and you need to as well... .You CAN do this... .

[JerryRG]

Thank you so much confused

Spot on!

I do all these things too, I'm so grateful to just be alive.

I kinda wear myself out trying so hard to get well, all these things you brought up are fantastic and do absolutely work.

I try to hit 1 or 2 AA meetings every day, talk to counselor and pastor and family as much as I can. Just started a new job, can't say I love the type of work but the people are great. I am in remission and the chemo stinks, I get another treatment next week. Last year 50 pushups 10 times a day, weights, walking, riding, and never broke a sweat, after treatment some days I'm so weak I can barely walk (gurrrrrrr) I have a 2 year old to chase around and now this? Lol, not my idea of good timing but I'm doing good, just need to stay away from pity and focus on positives which pour down like rain.

I appreciate your successes and your commitment to wellness, truly inspiring

Life throws us curveballs but we just keep moving forward.

I've been sick with colds and crap for over a month and not sleeping, custody issues keep changing.

Thanks again for your positivity, you reminded me of what can be, understanding insanity is just that, insanity.

Work on things we can right?

Life is good... .

[once removed]

Validation validation validation

a therapist (or anyone with those skills) will validate you if not foremost. theres also a difference between invalidating, and validating the invalid. youve shared some of the material you are digging into, and i suspect a fair amount of it may be confusing you as to who she is, who you are, and what the relationship was. i encourage learning about BPD, as much as one can, from a clinical perspective; there are a lot of urban legends about BPD behavior on the internet and some of them make their way to this board. i am wondering if some of that is where you and the counselor might have differed?

Not sure but I'm just not able to absorb what happened or how to frame this whole relationship. Nothing makes sense and my biggest fear is why I kept trying and why I didn't listen to my instincts and leave the first time I knew KNEW she was a pathologic lier and completely pshychotic.

So yes this is all about me and being NC 4 months I'm remembering horrible truths that I somehow consciencely or subconsciously denied.

in my experience four months is not a lot of time to sort all of this out, or for your psyche to satisfy itself upon a version of the relationship that encompasses the duration of the relationship. in other words not a long time to fully grieve, especially something so complex. the fear is natural and understandable. i can honestly tell you i havent had a normal relationship. the ending with my uBPDex made me distrustful about myself, paranoid to the point of seriously wondering if the seasonal change played a role in our breakup. if youre recalling traumatic events from the relationship that you consciously or subconsciously denied, that is a sign in and of itself that you are still processing, as you should be. if you feel like sharing, what kind of horrible truths are emerging?

I cannot think about her without anger and fear, I gave her so much power, if she suddenly got well and tried to come back into my life I'm not sure I would cave, knowing all I know already.

no one suddenly gets well, im sure you understand that. its okay to think about her with both fear and anger. its okay to protect yourself. youre grieving and anger is a part of grief. you are also being proactive in addressing and processing this grief and expressing your anger. all of it is progress. this is really hard stuff JerryRG. ill never forget what i went through so that i can assure you and others that it gets better  .

[steelwork]

Are you making time to go out with friends?  What is something fun you have planned this weekend?  Do you keep a journal?  Asking these questions because these are questions I was asked... .my breakup was only a month ago.  These are things I make myself do... .every day I find something I am now grateful for. 

c&a, I'm so impressed with how far you've come in just a month! I think you have a great attitude. You really committed yourself to the job of digging out from the worst of it. I bet you'll do great on the next steps.

[JerryRG]

Thank you once removed

That pretty much nails my core issue, trust. It was eroded to a point I no longer believe anyone, I don't know why but I feel that I was isolated and brain washed. There are facts, simple facts that I was 100% convinced of but after this last 4 years I lost trust in myself and i may be wrong but I think I cannot trust others as well. That statement alone is fiction and I know it's wrong. Strange so strange.

I hear the things I know are true yet I have to hear them over and over and over to keep them true. I think I had a mental break down or maybe several?

I was sexually abused as a child and I know I dissociate but seems like only with certain people. It kept me sane and alive. I've experienced severe trauma in car accident and never even got shook up, passive acceptance of the situation or something else?

Grew up with violent father, narc mother, very stressful.

6 times I've almost died and though this relationship has broken me? Again then the struggle becomes, was she nuts or am I? She tried blaming me for everything and refused to accept fault, I was ALWAYS WRONG.

I think I had a breakdown but since I have effective/unhealthy coping skills I'm not sure why I obsess?

Thanks again once removed

[once removed]

That pretty much nails my core issue, trust. It was eroded to a point I no longer believe anyone, I don't know why but I feel that I was isolated and brain washed. There are facts, simple facts that I was 100% convinced of but after this last 4 years I lost trust in myself and i may be wrong but I think I cannot trust others as well. That statement alone is fiction and I know it's wrong. Strange so strange.

one of my best friends in high school dated a girl for some years. she was very dependent on him. enmeshed. overly attached. one of a few people i have met who express that theyre incapable of even being attracted to anyone else while in a relationship (a personal   of mine). in other words, the last person id have expected to cheat. when she did, it really clicked with me that anyone was ultimately capable of cheating, and that some of the most insecure, or clingy personality types can even be the likeliest to cheat. i internalized that viewpoint. with that in mind i could not only not imagine my ex doing so, but i was around her all the time. it boggled my mind what i likely overlooked. it made me angry that id walked on eggshells over her extreme jealousy. it made me angry and distrustful of myself.

high conflict personalities and disordered personalities are out there. theyre a significant part of the population. short of being a hermit, we must interact, but thats no easy or fool proof task. learning things like good boundaries and communication tools helps us navigate them though. the practice really helps to build trust in ourselves, and maintain healthy relationships of all kinds in our lives, which also lends to trusting yourself, and others.

I hear the things I know are true yet I have to hear them over and over and over to keep them true.

try "i love myself too much to accept abuse or settle for less than i deserve". that might build some self trust

[steelwork]

Jerry,

I was sexually abused as a child and I know I dissociate but seems like only with certain people.]

Is there a pattern that you can see of which people or situations cause you to dissociate?

Have you and your counselor discussed complex ptsd? It seems like that might be an issue for you. There's a lot of info available about C-PTSD and its long-term effects. What jumps out at me is that it can really erode your ability to trust. Another thing is that it makes you vulnerable to PTSD from future traumas.

I think finding a therapist who understands C-PTSD might be really important for you.

[JerryRG]

Yes thank you once removed and steelwork

I have told my councelor I was dissociation while with her in her office and she just says come back and that's it. No more discussion. She's one person I seem to be able to dissociate with. Never know who or why.

I told her today what I've learned about c-ptsd and gaslighting and Stockholm syndrome and she didn't react. She asked me to bring my CD book for our next session. That's it

I agree once removed, no one deserves to be abused, lied to, disrespected etc. I am a good guy and my children love me, my friends and extended family. They were disgusted when they learned I was with my ex, she had a very bad reputation in our community for her hurting and using others.

[balletomane]

Look for a counsellor or a therapist with solid credentials and good experience in the field of trauma, as it sounds like not only were you traumatised by your relationship, but you carry trauma from being abused as a child. It would make sense to see someone who is specialised in this field.

Secondly, therapy can often be a very challenging experience. It's meant to be. We would just stay mired in our problems if it weren't. There will always be times when your counsellor/therapist disagrees with you, times when you struggle to trust them, times when you're uncomfortable. So the mark of an effective therapeutic relationship is not whether the therapist always backs up your point of view, but whether he or she can foster healing and growth. Are you able to reflect on your discomfort in the sessions, to talk openly about trust, etc.? If you can do that, then you're on the right track.

[steelwork]

Hey there Jerry,

I woke up thinking about your search for the right therapist (and I do think you need to be thinking therapy, not just counseling). I googled around for some good information on C-PTSD, and I came across this article, which I think speaks to both of us. It's about the role of grieving in dealing with complex trauma from childhood.

www.healingfromcomplextraumaandptsd.com/#!complex-ptsd--grieving/c1ze1

EDIT:

(You have to copy and paste that link for some reason. The link as it appears here won't work with a click. Or try this for the PDF, but it's in a less readable format. www.pete-walker.com/pdf/GrievingAndComplexPTSD.pdf )

About crying and anger:

"Crying and angering are the two key emotional tools that we have for releasing the pain of the abandonment melange. It is important to note here that most of us suffer an acculturation process that dictates that men should only emote through angering and women through crying."

That's not news, of course. We all know it already about men and women. But it made me think of you and me specifically. I've seen elsewhere on this board that you have decent access to feelings of anger, at least about your ex. I don't, though I'm getting better. I still block my own anger with feelings of compassion for him, which are nice and all but not if they interrupt the process of grieving the relationship. Some of that is my inner critic telling me anger isn't allowed. I can be sincerely angry towards my mother at this point, but it helps that she's still around doing things to reinforce that anger. My ex has entered the mysterious veil of the past and can now only be dealt with as a phantom.

My point is, I've seen your anger. Do you cry? Can you experience sadness about your loss without an intrusive voice telling you not to be weak or sniveling? I have that voice, too--just as you surely have a voice that criticizes you for your anger--but it's perhaps easier for me to cry because I'm a woman.

There's a lot of interesting stuff in this article, and some ideas for action. The discussion of "verbal ventilating" is great. The brain hemisphere stuff. I like the implicit distinction the author makes between processing and ranting, and the explicit one between verbal ventilation and dissociating. And the relationship between dissociating and obsessing and intellectualization. Maybe in some other context people will want to talk about that.

Anyhow, Jerry, I'm thinking of you and hoping you get the relief that you deserve.

[JerryRG]

Thank you, steelwork, balletomane

I will look into finding someone qualified to help me, I know I have a bad temper, I cannot deal with conflict so I get angry and run. My ex lived for drama and chaos. It just became too much stress and when we did fight I would try to just remove myself where she wanted to argue. I was always afraid she would escalate are argument into a physical altercation. She beat me up a few times, throwing things, grabbed my steering wheel once trying to steer me off the road.

She looked at me once and told me to hit her, I left. I would later text her and tell her I couldn't do this any longer, I was also verbally abusive in an attempt to get her to wake up and realize this had to end or we needed outside help. She never agreed to couples councing and I'm sure the main reason was her fear of being wrong.

She was so rude and demanding, sarcastic and hurtful, mean and selfish. If I had concerns she refused to discuss them. I cannot understand how she finds guys that will put up with her crazy selfish behavior.

Thanks again for all the help everyone.

[confusedandangry]

Jerry,

I didn't realize you have PTSD.  I do as well... .alcoholic father that held me hostage for several hours at gunpoint, when I was a child.  Later, a student pulled a gun on me and it all came out.  I began to work on PTSD with a therapist at that point.  You really have to stop focusing your energy on her.  She is NOT going to change.  She did a great guy wrong and for that shame one her.  She will have to answer for all that she did.  ( I saw that you rely on your faith, so do I)  You must begin to love you and forgive you.  I have had a rough few days thinking about my ex, but then I write in my journal the things that I am grateful for.  I am not being blamed for everything that went wrong, I am not walking on eggshells any longer, I am even grateful that I can eat healthy foods again.  Just little things of gratitude daily when you start to obsess.  The fog does lift... .you do see the light.  Read, read, read... .I read everything I could about BPD and I didn't try to figure her out.  I just realized, she is not fixable.  She will never change.  She gave me what she could... .and God has something better for me.  Your ex gave you the best she had... .YOUR SON.  Focus on him and your health and get strong.  Let this relationship make you stronger... .you can do this.  And Steelwork, thank you.  You helped me so much... .all of you did.  I only hope I can help someone else out of the FOG. 

[JerryRG]

Thank you confusedandangry

I have good days and bad days, been sick for a long time. I'm just laying around this weekend and resting. Yes FAITH, I've been so blessed and as you said this has all brought me even more, I've grown and learned so much about life in these last few years. Never had I lived by faith before, or I had faith but in other things. I now have a clear and real relationship with Him. And yes my son, my beautiful son. I have 3 older girls snd never in my lifetime dreamed of having a son.

Helping others is key too.

I did not know gratitude or understand it until I walked into Alanon and later AA. Gratitude is the greatest of all the gifts brought to me.

It is the saving virtue in my life, all other virtues spring from gratutude. Thank you confusedandangry for reminding me of what so easily forget.

I will practice being grateful and using all the many tools I've been so blessed to receive and the least of which is you people here who have also gone down this dark road.

Thank you all so much

Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.

Marcus Tullius Cicero

[JerryRG]

I forgot to mention the most important part of my frustration with my current counselor and that is she keeps telling me to just "forget my ex and move on" I sure would if I could.

She kinda mocks me for allowing her to influence me still after all this time. No matter what I say she insists I just move on.  :'(