Crisis

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

DH went to pick up sd10 from her activity. She was dead set on not going with him. (This would be the start of the first 2night weekend in... .forever, based on new PP that got signed last week). It sounded like full blown "You can't make me, I'm not going with you, I don't want you in my life, I don't have a place with you, I never want to see you" stuff. Apparently she walked/ran away from him at least once.

DH called Mom to have her talk to sd10, as it seemed like sd10 was so far gone she wouldn't listen to anything from DH. DH talked to Mom on the phone to have her talk to sd10 about how these are the new rules etc. sd10 told DH something like I don't want to be with you if you're mean to Mom like that. (!)

Mom sees no problem with sd10's behavior, as "sd10 follows the rules at Activity, so I'm not concerned". Mom also said that "relationships should be built on trust". She did seem ok with counseling though. Mom came & picked up sd10. DH would've had to physically grab sd10 to get her to go with him.

DH called L & left message. Mom is supposed to talk to sd10 & bring her over. Mom professes that she will "try to convince" sd10 that sd10 should go.

So much more bs from Mom. I'm really concerned about sd10 as we were just with her on Wednesday and although a bit defensive she was affectionate with DH. I don't think mom will listen to anyone except her L, if that. Mom sees no role in this at all.

I'm pretty upset and DH has been through the wringer. If mom does drop off sd10 sd10 is gonna have a major attitude and it sounds like running off is not out of the picture. At age 10.

[kells76]

DH went to pick up sd10 from her activity. She was dead set on not going with him. (This would be the start of the first 2night weekend in... .forever, based on new PP that got signed last week). It sounded like full blown "You can't make me, I'm not going with you, I don't want you in my life, I don't have a place with you, I never want to see you" stuff. Apparently she walked/ran away from him at least once.

DH called Mom to have her talk to sd10, as it seemed like sd10 was so far gone she wouldn't listen to anything from DH. DH talked to Mom on the phone to have her talk to sd10 about how these are the new rules etc. sd10 told DH something like I don't want to be with you if you're mean to Mom like that. (!)

Mom sees no problem with sd10's behavior, as "sd10 follows the rules at Activity, so I'm not concerned". Mom also said that "relationships should be built on trust". She did seem ok with counseling though. Mom came & picked up sd10. DH would've had to physically grab sd10 to get her to go with him.

DH called L & left message. Mom is supposed to talk to sd10 & bring her over. Mom professes that she will "try to convince" sd10 that sd10 should go.

So much more bs from Mom. I'm really concerned about sd10 as we were just with her on Wednesday and although a bit defensive she was affectionate with DH. I don't think mom will listen to anyone except her L, if that. Mom sees no role in this at all.

I'm pretty upset and DH has been through the wringer. If mom does drop off sd10 sd10 is gonna have a major attitude and it sounds like running off is not out of the picture. At age 10.

[kells76]

L called back. He's going to call Mom's L to say that we need to get a reintegration plan plus counseling. I assume Mom's L will call Mom, not sure when.

DH texted Mon to see how sd10 is doing. Mom said sd10 is "ok, they are working on communication, sd10 has some big feelings".

DH isn't going to die on this hill. If mom doesn't bring sd10 over that's on mom. Just really frustrating and unnerving to see how far the alienation had crept in. I didn't think it'd get this bad.

[bravhart1]

I'm sorry this has gotten so hard so quickly.

The alienation may not have been this bad, but mom ramped it up because she was feeling threatened at the loss of SD.

My SD was also "told at six, she didn't have to visit DH" just the word visit it self was insulting. And at the time SD was living with us 80% of the time. It got worse, and the court finally pulled all contact with mom to save the father daughter relationship.

I wish there was a way to get through to mom to make her understand that she will lose,ore time with daughter not less by going down this road. Courts take this very seriously these days.

I will say thought the only caveat would be if the court sees mom as being the more stable (not mentally but relationship wise) with daughter.

Dad needs to try as best he can to establish feelings with daughter, as soon as possible. Can he get her alone for a lunch, plead his case for having contact. He needs to try to maintain a thread, it will be  important down the road.

Best of luck.

[ForeverDad]

No matter how much mother claims she is following the order, this alienation didn't come out of the blue and it wasn't SD10's idea, she's clearly had prepping by her mother over months and years and of course even now, though she will deny and shift blame to SD10, as in, "Nothing I can do, it's SD10."

Richard Warshak, author of Divorce Poison, has a program called Family Bridges, possibly similar in some ways to the reintegration the lawyer mentioned.  Also, Dr Craig Childress has a new approach to handling alienation, that it is a form of attachment disorder and child abuse.

[kells76]

Thanks bravhart. IDK how a court would view Mom's relationship with sd10. Mom of course would portray it as ideal. Question is whether a judge would see through that. Not sure there are objective red flags on stability of DH's relationship with sd10. There's a paper trail of him being involved, trying to be more involved, going to most of sd10's activity competitions.

The whiplash this weekend has been insane. So Mom brought sd10 over later on Friday night, but with the caveat that sd10 was still "adamant"    about only staying 1 night and not going out of town with us to see grandparents. Sd10 camped out in bedroom & read, but wasn't openly hostile or rude. Next morning she was mostly her usual self at breakfast, but was pretty harsh & arrogant with sd7. Read & laughed with DH for an hour or so until mom picked her up midmorning. DH & I & sd7 still went out of town.

I mean... .What the heck? I'm concerned about so much about this situation, but the not wanting to see grandparents & do fun stuff out of town (hotel, swimming) is kind of disturbing. This need to choose & defend mom is at 110% to the exclusion of sister, friends (similar situation last October), grandparents, & of course DH.

And yeah, FD, I've been reading Warshak & Childress for ... .years   wish I didn't need to. I'll see if DH will pass that info along to L to start discussion on counseling. That's a big fear of mine; that Mom will co-opt the process and turn it into something really destructive. I imagine that's why she's so open to it right now -- maybe she thinks she can use counseling to "prove" how bad DH is as a parent. It's also a big concern that Mom would still have majority time while sd10 gets counseling with DH. I think Childress called that "making the child a psychological battlefield". Not sure how it could be worse than now, though... .

I know this isn't exactly legal board fodder but it's all one big mess now. Feel free to share your insights on the legal side of reintegration/reunification therapy ins & outs.

[bravhart1]

My first thought is why would L phrase it as "reintegration " ?

Where has father been? As far as I can tell he has been there involved and a constant. Reintegrate to what? Seeing him? The shift from one night to two is enough to warrant this? That's the road to persue clearly mom has been influencing as it makes no sense otherwise. Many children spend the weekend with their other parent, why is that so alarming to SD? She most likely had no REAL reason, she may throw out scanty excuses but I doubt she has any understandable reason.

I would NOT tip mom off to this faulty flaw, but pursue a therapist to investigate the history of the objection.

Also, I understand you not getting why SD would pass up on a trip, fun etc. my SD was ordered to make a ten minute phone call while she was on vacation with us two years ago. After a five minute call she was crying to go home immediately. We were AT DISNEYLAND.

What five year old cries to leave Disneyland two hours in, to go home and see mom. I didn't get it either. And thanks for ruining that too BPDm

[Thunderstruck]

Oh man. I feel for you kells76. I've been there with my SD.  :'( She's very willful as well.

SD was 8 at the time and would have huge meltdowns if DH showed up to pick her up. One time at an exchange at the police station, uBPDbm had SD so worked up that I asked for a cop to help facilitate the exchange. uBPDbm turned on crocodile tears, and had the cop telling SD (a CHILD!) that she "needs to tell the judge she doesn't want to be with her dad".    The cop was then talking down to me, calling me "just a girlfriend". That exchange took about 30 minutes until uBPDbm sufficiently ratcheted up the drama. Five minutes into the car ride home with us, and SD was fine. Happy and joking. That night I took pictures of SD sitting in DH's lap at dinner, loving on him.

Although we did have days where SD would just spend the entire day screaming at us about how she hates us, we don't love her, and she wanted to go to her mom's.

It got better for us. Constant contact and our 50/50 schedule realllllly helped. Just having the schedule in place helped cut down on the push-pull between the parents which cut down on the stress for SD.

One thing, and I know DH was in a tight position, but having SD be "rescued" by BPDmom probably did more damage. It reinforces the alienation. SD shouldn't have to be rescued from a normal loving parent and a fun trip away for the weekend.

[ForeverDad]

Having read Richard Warshak, you already know that blacklisting all of the alienated parent's relatives is a typical sign of alienation.  Refusing to see a bad relative or two, that could have basis if abusers or whatever, but the whole lot of them is not typical.  Hey, kids with alcoholic parents still love them.  It would have to be something extreme to overcome a child's natural attachments.