Birthday party blowup

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I think it is a great idea to disconnect the financial connection to your in laws. They say not to mix money and family for a reason- as an aspect of money is emotional.

You also have a right to have a boundary about this FOO dysfunction in your home, but the problem is that it is your wife's family and since it is her home too, the conflict arises where she wishes to have her family in her house.

She has no control over her parents. Neither do you.

Also, being enmeshed in that family, she may not understand this kind of boundary and also not be prepared for the consequences if she enforces it. This issue becomes more about her boundary than yours.

Do you see the potential drama triangle when you enforce what is actually her boundary? You become the persecutor. I was not stating that you did anything wrong in this situation. It is just that, there is no way that asking grandparents to leave when they showed up presumably invited to their 3 year old grandchild's birthday party is not going to lead to them being upset at you, and putting the focus on you. You may as well have asserted your right to drown the family kitten. I'm being a bit dramatic here, but there was no way this would not look as if you were the bad guy and wife and her FOO could be victims.

It was different for me because, the boundary between me and my FOO was mine to enforce and I did it. I mentioned how we have to Grandma -proof the house ( lock personal things up as she snoops) if we wanted her to be there. Personally, I felt it was better to have my parents be a part in our lives. I could not control their behavior, but I could have boundaries.

Later, when I began to be less co-dependent and enmeshed, I experienced a similar shake up that perhaps you are experiencing in your family. I was not the compliant enabler that they were comfortable with. And the fall out from them was very emotionally difficult. But the job to do this was on me. There was not a triangle between me, my H, and my parents.

You can have your boundaries, but it is your wife's home, and it is her parents. The task of the boundary between your home and her parents is at least part hers and the major emotional consequence of her standing up to them is going to fall on her, as it is hardest to feel hurt from ones own parents. I don't know if she wants to do this, or you have any control of her doing this. But - do you see the triangle with you as the bad guy when you do enact the boundary?

[Notwendy]

I think it is a great idea to disconnect the financial connection to your in laws. They say not to mix money and family for a reason- as an aspect of money is emotional.

You also have a right to have a boundary about this FOO dysfunction in your home, but the problem is that it is your wife's family and since it is her home too, the conflict arises where she wishes to have her family in her house.

She has no control over her parents. Neither do you.

Also, being enmeshed in that family, she may not understand this kind of boundary and also not be prepared for the consequences if she enforces it. This issue becomes more about her boundary than yours.

Do you see the potential drama triangle when you enforce what is actually her boundary? You become the persecutor. I was not stating that you did anything wrong in this situation. It is just that, there is no way that asking grandparents to leave when they showed up presumably invited to their 3 year old grandchild's birthday party is not going to lead to them being upset at you, and putting the focus on you. You may as well have asserted your right to drown the family kitten. I'm being a bit dramatic here, but there was no way this would not look as if you were the bad guy and wife and her FOO could be victims.

It was different for me because, the boundary between me and my FOO was mine to enforce and I did it. I mentioned how we have to Grandma -proof the house ( lock personal things up as she snoops) if we wanted her to be there. Personally, I felt it was better to have my parents be a part in our lives. I could not control their behavior, but I could have boundaries.

Later, when I began to be less co-dependent and enmeshed, I experienced a similar shake up that perhaps you are experiencing in your family. I was not the compliant enabler that they were comfortable with. And the fall out from them was very emotionally difficult. But the job to do this was on me. There was not a triangle between me, my H, and my parents.

You can have your boundaries, but it is your wife's home, and it is her parents. The task of the boundary between your home and her parents is at least part hers and the major emotional consequence of her standing up to them is going to fall on her, as it is hardest to feel hurt from ones own parents. I don't know if she wants to do this, or you have any control of her doing this. But - do you see the triangle with you as the bad guy when you do enact the boundary?

[formflier]

  But - do you see the triangle with you as the bad guy when you do enact the boundary?

Yep, I see it.

My take is this.  If "doing their thing" around me results in them being uncomfortable because of what I say or do to enforce a boundary, they can learn to deal with that.

I do need to be cognizant that they may come "looking for" that reaction for the sole purpose of drama.  Not sure how I identify or deal with that.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I do need to be cognizant that they may come "looking for" that reaction for the sole purpose of drama.  Not sure how I identify or deal with that.

I think it depends on when they are trying to create drama... .and I'm not sure what you mean here.

If they were coming to your house to create drama with the excuse of going to D3's birthday party, this sounds toxic, and really hard for you to cope with productively. (Especially without triangulating with your wife as Notwendy pointed out)

If it started after confronted them about decision making, respect, plans, etc. they started looking to provoke you and create drama, that seems like a much smaller problem to me.

... .I hope you can see at least in hindsight that your bringing up this confrontation was provocative, and you can choose not to be provocative like that in many if not all situations.

[formflier]

I completely agree that the conflict at the birthday party was my choice, 100%.  They filled in some details.

I don't believe I am triggered now, I've thought about it, put it aside, come back to it again, and I still think that standing up for myself was the right thing.

There is always the chance that they would have said, "Sure, let's get together today at 2:30 at the IHOP, drink some coffee and discuss things"  Remember my initial request, statement, demand (who knows how they experienced it) was that the adults find time to get together to discuss things.

They made clear that wasn't going to happen because there was nothing to discuss and no problems.

I had another choice, and I chose to press ahead.  While it wasn't my goal to "peek behind the curtain", I got a clear sense of the entitlement that they feel because they have "done so much for me".

I have a better idea of how they define "family", especially as it relates to business. 

(my interpretation)  We all have challenges, so when someone is successful since we are family and family helps each other, they will help the less fortunate.  It's not stealing because it was "family money". 

The brother in law didn't steal the money, but, (direct quote)  "he shouldn't have taken his profit when he did".  So, what happens when the house sells for a loss?  Does brother in law give money back, nope.  He is family and needed help.

My view:  The help has enabled the brother in law to be a shell of the man he should be.  Now that he has move over a 1000 miles away, he does seem to be doing better.  Mrs FF pushed him to do this because she knew he would never flourish under the thumb of Mother and Sister. 

Sometimes she paints her family very black and "gets it right".



FF

[flourdust]

I'm sorry, FF, but the way you've told your story, I think you created the confrontation in this situation.

Your in-laws came over for the birthday party. This was unexpected by you, but it wasn't targeted at you. When they came over, they were interacting with your wife (or just amongst themselves) in ways that you found triggering, but were again not directed at you. You were overhearing their conversation, and that was bothering you. That's when you stepped in to try to get them to leave, and the conflict all followed from that.

Have I gotten any of the details wrong?

[formflier]

Have I gotten any of the details wrong?

Yes, a bit wrong.

Never asked them or my wife to get them to leave.

My request was that we find time for the adults to talk.  Answer was no, there is no problem, no need to talk.

Yes, I absolutely "pushed it" after that. 

I believe there is a problem, they can believe whatever they want.

back to beginning.  To my wifes credit, she did some talk privately with me for a few minutes, this is after the MIL "barking" at her.  It went BPDish pretty quick, at first she claimed all family was invited and when I asked why my parents weren't here, she knew she was boxed in.

There would have been integrity in her stance if she had invited both sides. 

The plan was clear for several days  we would come home from public event and "me, you and kids" would open presents do cake and hang out in back yard/deck.

FF

[flourdust]

Thanks for the correction. It still seems as if you initiated the confrontation when you were triggered by the unexpected presence of your in-laws.

Was this boundary enforcement or an attempt to control others' behavior? Was there a way to enforce your boundaries and de-escalate your own stress without requiring others' compliance?

Have I gotten any of the details wrong?

Yes... a bit wrong.

Never asked them or my wife to get them to leave.

My request was that we find time for the adults to talk.  Answer was no... .there is no problem... .no need to talk.

Yes... .I absolutely "pushed it" after that.  

I believe there is a problem, they can believe whatever they want.

back to beginning.  To my wifes credit... .she did some talk privately with me for a few minutes... .this is after the MIL "barking" at her.  It went BPDish pretty quick... .at first she claimed all family was invited and when I asked why my parents weren't here... .she knew she was boxed in.

There would have been integrity in her stance if she had invited both sides.  

The plan was clear for several days  we would come home from public event and "me, you and kids" would open presents do cake and hang out in back yard/deck.

FF

[formflier]

Was this boundary enforcement or an attempt to control others' behavior? Was there a way to enforce your boundaries and de-escalate your own stress without requiring others' compliance?

I see the point, it was an attempt to control others behavior within the confines of "my" home, which also is my wife's home.

So I would say that it was inside "both" our boundaries.

I suppose I could have enforced it or could in the future without them by blocking the door, but that is not really practical.

Was there a way to deescalate  and enforce my boundaries, no, not both.  

I could have left, but that would have reinforced the notion that they can do whatever in my house and I get no say.  Remember when they expected me to leave or sleep somewhere else at 3am in the morning?  Because they wanted to watch TV,

Perhaps the boundary or enforcement thing in my house is that if you try to steamroll me, I have a bigger steamroller.

Not sure.

It's one thing to ask, its another to intrude.  

Perhaps if you don't like what I'm like when you intrude, you may ask in the future.

Note:  When I have reached out to discuss issues before, MIL will sometimes discuss, FIL is rare to discuss.  He will start making claims and saying things that don't make sense.

Such as, "I've never seen a dime from this property and don't have an account"  When in reality, ALL of the rent money goes into an account with his name on it, ?    

I get it, he may feel stupid talking to me or intimidated, or whatever.  But, not sure how you can run a business together, let alone be a family together, if you refuse to find time to talk.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I get it... .he may feel stupid talking to me or intimidated... .or whatever.  But... not sure how you can run a business together... .let alone be a family together... .if you refuse to find time to talk.

I'm not sure how to do those things without finding time to talk... .but I do see one very clear pattern:

If you try to get your wife, or anybody in her FOO to take time to talk and make decisions and agreements in the way you like to do so... .things go badly. Pretty much every time.

[formflier]

 

Grey,

With the added nuance of they used to find time to talk, and make them, and kinda keep them.  Long time ago it was obvious the family was different than mine. 

I had no idea how radically different it was.

Anyway,

Someone else, maybe patientandclear had asked if I put the shoe on the other foot.  Her parents "drop by" from time to time.  I'm ok with that.  No expectation that they must have permission every time. 

When that happens, I respect my wifes space and do other things that are not in close proximity.  The visit is usually over in 15-30 minutes, and life goes on.

I have not been on "chummy" terms with them since the sleep incident and they reaffirmed their stance that "I sleep just fine" and they weren't bothering me, I was just being a butt,

Not much you can do with that,

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Maybe things will de-escalate sometime and you will be able to have discussions with them again. I suspect that's gonna take some bridge building.

... .since the sleep incident and they reaffirmed their stance that "I sleep just fine" and they weren't bothering me... .I was just being a butt... .

Not much you can do with that... .

No need to convince them that they were "wrong" and you were "right". As you said, not much you can do there.

What you can do is if it happens again, go to a hotel, probably earlier in the evening. Yes, I'm aware that you tend to sleep poorly in hotels too... .but that isn't the whole point.

The point is you are enforcing a boundary. They may think you are being a butt. Let them. They will learn that you are a consistent butt 100% of the time on this issue with your sleep.

And if you have a few more incidents like that, you have reason to insist that your wife back you up there. It still may not work well... .but the more consistent you are with everybody involved, the better.

[flourdust]

Was there a way to deescalate  and enforce my boundaries... .no... .not both.  

I could have left, but that would have reinforced the notion that they can do whatever in my house and I get no say.

If their presence is causing you stress, then leaving will reduce your stress. If you're trying to control what they think or feel, you're working on the wrong problem.

Perhaps the boundary or enforcement thing in my house is that if you try to steamroll me, I have a bigger steamroller.

Macho talk. You're playing scenarios in your head where you fight them and win. Real life is a lot messier. The history has generally not been that you confront them and win. Don't repeat that history, no matter how tempting the fantasy is.

[formflier]

Macho talk. You're playing scenarios in your head where you fight them and win. Real life is a lot messier. The history has generally not been that you confront them and win. Don't repeat that history, no matter how tempting the fantasy is.

I see how it sounds that way, "winning" is standing up to the crazy train.  Not accepting a disordered view of realty.

No chance I change their minds.  I don't care about what they think, I do care about how they behave in my presence.

Winning is me doing my own thing, even if they threaten, stomp, snort harrumph and list a million reasons why.

For instance, they said something to the effect that time is better spent on "the kids" rather than worrying about business and money (facing accountability for money shenanigans).   Winning on this "point" is really about limiting damage and creating a boundary.  

FF

[Fian]

It has been several days from the bday event.  How are things with your wife since then?

[formflier]

 

Amazingly good.  If anything it is me being a bit distant. 

An observation I have made is that a "blowup" seems to release a lot of pressure.  My wife has slept in same bed with me two nights in a row, that is rare.  Usually she sleeps with kids.

She didn't throw herself at me, so it would not be right to say I rejected her sexually, but I had no interest in going after her.

She has had several episodes of furiously typing on her computer.  My assumption is she is filling out "conflict log" for MC. 

I'm still trying to listen and text more with her.   She has all these revelations about what God is showing her, that have application in my life.  I have been firm that I am interested in what God is showing her and that I want to hear about her prayer life for her and that I am interested in sharing what God is showing me (for me to apply in my life).

FF