Moving towards supervised visitation...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

In the past month or so, the situation with my D6 visiting her mom has become a bit more dire.  Since she moved out a couple of years ago, my D6 visits with her BPD mom every two weeks in the attic she rents about 10 minutes from my house.  It has always been a bit cramped, but knowing my ex-wife's financial situation, I decided to keep a light touch to encourage a relationship with her mom.  It hasn't been perfect, but until recently, I didn't think my D6 was in immediate danger.

About a month ago, I was made to wait 15 minutes for my daughter to come down to the door.  I found that strange as my BPDexw usually has my daughter ready promptly.  When I asked what was going on, she said that she was looking for D6's shoe.  I went upstairs to what could be best described as a safety hazard.  Garbage everywhere, paper, food containers and the like to the point where the floor was covered.  I told my BPDexw to clean up the floor or else I wouldn't let my daughter stay.

The following visitation, the place had been cleaned up a bit, so I figured all was well.  The next few school days after that visitation, my D6 wet herself at school, causing concern at school.  I called my BPDexw to figure out what was going on, and she informed me that my D6 wets herself every visit.  I found that strange as she never wets the bed at home or out and about (and we frequently travel throughout the NYC Tri-State Area).  I did some investigating, then took my D6 to a doctor to rule out medical issues and a social worker I've dealt with in the past to ascertain any psychological issues.  I also asked my D6 what was going on, and she informed me that she had trouble negotiating the stairs to the bathroom, particularly at night.  There were also issues when another mother with kids moved into the house her mom lived in at one point.  (The landlord is an older single male who has a clean record, and works nights, so he doesn't have regular contact with my D6.)

After this, I asked my BPDexw to clean up and change the lighting situation so that my D6 could make her way to the bathroom.  I also agreed to work with her in finding a cot for my D6 to sleep in, as they currently share a bed. The last visitation was skipped because my D6 went to her grandmother's house (her mom's mom) out of state.  This week, I checked out the house, and while it was cleaned up, there were still a number of issues, and my BPDexw seemed hostile to addressing the issues with the amount of junk in the place and the placement of a cot at my expense.

I plan on reporting her to child welfare on Monday and pursuing relief through the Family Court on Wednesday (as it's the next weekday I have off from work).  What should I do next?

[iluminati]

In the past month or so, the situation with my D6 visiting her mom has become a bit more dire.  Since she moved out a couple of years ago, my D6 visits with her BPD mom every two weeks in the attic she rents about 10 minutes from my house.  It has always been a bit cramped, but knowing my ex-wife's financial situation, I decided to keep a light touch to encourage a relationship with her mom.  It hasn't been perfect, but until recently, I didn't think my D6 was in immediate danger.

About a month ago, I was made to wait 15 minutes for my daughter to come down to the door.  I found that strange as my BPDexw usually has my daughter ready promptly.  When I asked what was going on, she said that she was looking for D6's shoe.  I went upstairs to what could be best described as a safety hazard.  Garbage everywhere, paper, food containers and the like to the point where the floor was covered.  I told my BPDexw to clean up the floor or else I wouldn't let my daughter stay.

The following visitation, the place had been cleaned up a bit, so I figured all was well.  The next few school days after that visitation, my D6 wet herself at school, causing concern at school.  I called my BPDexw to figure out what was going on, and she informed me that my D6 wets herself every visit.  I found that strange as she never wets the bed at home or out and about (and we frequently travel throughout the NYC Tri-State Area).  I did some investigating, then took my D6 to a doctor to rule out medical issues and a social worker I've dealt with in the past to ascertain any psychological issues.  I also asked my D6 what was going on, and she informed me that she had trouble negotiating the stairs to the bathroom, particularly at night.  There were also issues when another mother with kids moved into the house her mom lived in at one point.  (The landlord is an older single male who has a clean record, and works nights, so he doesn't have regular contact with my D6.)

After this, I asked my BPDexw to clean up and change the lighting situation so that my D6 could make her way to the bathroom.  I also agreed to work with her in finding a cot for my D6 to sleep in, as they currently share a bed. The last visitation was skipped because my D6 went to her grandmother's house (her mom's mom) out of state.  This week, I checked out the house, and while it was cleaned up, there were still a number of issues, and my BPDexw seemed hostile to addressing the issues with the amount of junk in the place and the placement of a cot at my expense.

I plan on reporting her to child welfare on Monday and pursuing relief through the Family Court on Wednesday (as it's the next weekday I have off from work).  What should I do next?

[livednlearned]

Hi iluminati,

I can see why you would be concerned.

I've grown to be wary of third-party professionals getting involved in my case, unless I had vetted them thoroughly at first. Do you want to consult with an L first to see if this plan is the best way to proceed? I haven't read back through your history so apologies for not remembering your situation.

My concern would be that your ex wife counter accuses you of something in defense, because getting child welfare involved is going to torpedo any feeling she has of being a capable mama. She's likely to strike out, would be my guess. I know you want the living situation to get sorted out, and agree it's a good idea to bring this to someone's attention, so I'm not dissuading you from going to court, per se. Only to think carefully about how you proceed so that you have a strategy in place before shining sunlight on what's going on.

Even if you cannot retain a lawyer, perhaps a short consult to determine whether it's worth getting child welfare involved. Also, there may be a solution to propose as a temporary measure that puts the ball in ex-wife's court. That's how things worked in my case. My L and I would go in to discuss the problem, and we would propose a solution.

In your case, a lawyer may agree with you that calling child welfare makes sense, and then helps you think about a solution that the judge would see as fair. For example, a temporary order where D6 does not stay overnight until x and y and z conditions are met.

It's possible, too, that an L might recommend writing ex-wife a letter with terms. Non-compliance might lead to court, compliance avoids court. Then wait and see what ex-wife does.

Family law court is where people who can't solve their own problems end up. Judges don't like repeat cases. So in some senses, we are battling with that crowd, trying to stick out as people who can solve our own problems. You have to show that you have tried, and couldn't, and have a solution (unlike many people who end up in court). That will make it more likely that the judge sees you are truly there to make things better for D6, and not to stick it to your ex-wife.

[iluminati]

I can see why you would be concerned.

I've grown to be wary of third-party professionals getting involved in my case, unless I had vetted them thoroughly at first. Do you want to consult with an L first to see if this plan is the best way to proceed? I haven't read back through your history so apologies for not remembering your situation.

Here's the Cliffs's notes version.  Came here 6 years ago after a diagnosis following a suicide attempt.  I asked for a divorce three years ago.  She counted with an offer of mediation instead of court.  In turn, I agreed to keep my mouth shut about the various issues in the marriage on the legal record.  (For legal reasons, I am the one who formally filed for divorce as someone has to be the petitioner under the law in our state.)  We mediated, and she stalled signing the formal agreement.  I threatened to go to court and start talking, and she agreed to the final agreement.  As per the agreement, we're supposed to mediate issues as needed.

My concern would be that your ex wife counter accuses you of something in defense, because getting child welfare involved is going to torpedo any feeling she has of being a capable mama. She's likely to strike out, would be my guess. I know you want the living situation to get sorted out, and agree it's a good idea to bring this to someone's attention, so I'm not dissuading you from going to court, per se. Only to think carefully about how you proceed so that you have a strategy in place before shining sunlight on what's going on.

Excellent point.  The one reason I am leaning towards court is that she has been trying to reengage over the past few weeks.  I'm trying to avoid getting recycled into a closer relationship besides co-parent, especially since my social, career and financial situation have stabilized post-divorce.  Still, you are right about the potential for her shutting down once child welfare gets involved.

Even if you cannot retain a lawyer, perhaps a short consult to determine whether it's worth getting child welfare involved. Also, there may be a solution to propose as a temporary measure that puts the ball in ex-wife's court. That's how things worked in my case. My L and I would go in to discuss the problem, and we would propose a solution.

In your case, a lawyer may agree with you that calling child welfare makes sense, and then helps you think about a solution that the judge would see as fair. For example, a temporary order where D6 does not stay overnight until x and y and z conditions are met.

It's possible, too, that an L might recommend writing ex-wife a letter with terms. Non-compliance might lead to court, compliance avoids court. Then wait and see what ex-wife does.

That makes sense.  How would a consult work?  Like would I just mention the issues, and they would recommend what's a smart option?  I'm curious about the mechanics of the situation, because I would be interested.  I would be willing to avoid court, but I'm also trying to avoid being sucked in again.

Family law court is where people who can't solve their own problems end up. Judges don't like repeat cases. So in some senses, we are battling with that crowd, trying to stick out as people who can solve our own problems. You have to show that you have tried, and couldn't, and have a solution (unlike many people who end up in court). That will make it more likely that the judge sees you are truly there to make things better for D6, and not to stick it to your ex-wife.

 

Great point.  That's something to keep in mind.  It's definitely worth the effort.

[ForeverDad]

How long are the visits? Perhaps part of the issue (finding the bathroom on another floor at night) could be that D6 has her alternate weekend visits but not overnights.  Would your ex agree to that?  Would an increase in exchanges put a strain on the exchanges?

I don't know if you could fix the clutter issues.  If she kept a limit to it the professionals may not see it as actionable.

[iluminati]

How long are the visits? Perhaps part of the issue (finding the bathroom on another floor at night) could be that D6 has her alternate weekend visits but not overnights.  Would your ex agree to that?  Would an increase in exchanges put a strain on the exchanges?

I don't know if you could fix the clutter issues.  If she kept a limit to it the professionals may not see it as actionable.

The visits are Friday night around 6:30 pm to Sunday night around 6 pm.  In terms of increased visits, I doubt it.  While I haven't asked for details, my impression is that my ex-wife has an active social life to attend to, and overnight visits during the week would cramp her style.

In terms of the clutter, that's something of a concern.  She has a history of hoarding and letting things get out of control with stuff.  Even since she's moved to her current situation, there's been obvious issues with trash and the like.

[livednlearned]

How would a consult work?  Like would I just mention the issues, and they would recommend what's a smart option?  I'm curious about the mechanics of the situation, because I would be interested. 

I did a consult with an appellate lawyer. It cost me about $250 for one hour. I prepared a list of about 10-15 questions and paid her office with a credit card, then her people set up an appointment for us to talk. I pretty much asked her every question I had, about how things would work, what her recommended strategy would be, plus some other things specific to my case. Then, we hung up, with the understanding that if I went and retained her, the $250 would go toward that retainer.

You might want to whittle the questions down to specifics to make better use of your time/money. Like, "If I go to child welfare, what risks are there to me?" "How likely is it that the courts would award me permanent full custody with no visitation given the details of her living conditions?" "Would you recommend that I not bring in child welfare, and instead file an emergency motion to suspend visitation?" Etc.

[livednlearned]

In terms of the clutter, that's something of a concern.  She has a history of hoarding and letting things get out of control with stuff.  Even since she's moved to her current situation, there's been obvious issues with trash and the like.

It seems like hoarding behaviors are increasingly being dealt with by county appointed or town appointed social workers. I don't know how bad it has to be before they call in the social workers, though, or how widespread this is. I guess they have realized that hoarding won't go away just be demanding someone clean up the yard, that it can be a sign of a much deeper psychiatric condition.

[ForeverDad]

What I meant about increased exchanges was to change her alternate weekends to just Saturday and Sunday day visits with overnights always with you.  So instead of 2 exchanges (Fri & Sun) there would be 4 exchanges (Sat am - Sat pm & Sun am - Sun pm).

Sometimes it is hard to get visits ordered to be supervised.  Being remote, we don't know your court's thresholds.  Could you convince her to agree to switch to days only?

[iluminati]

livednlearned, that sounds like a good idea with a lawyer.  I think it would be worth the lawyer's time and mine.  It's just a matter of coming up with the questions.

Foreverdad, I like that idea, particularly as a short term fix while the issues get straightened out.  It'll be a touch awkward with the logistics, but once I get that straightened out, I think she would be agreeable to it.  It wouldn't hurt to ask.