Spousal Support

[Concerns]

My BPD wife currently makes more money than I do. She has basically destroyed our family and wants a divorce. I'm leaning towards asking for spousal support since she's high functioning. She can keep a job and does fairly well. I've actually lost a good paying job due to her condition and we had to move to our current location. Any discussion of spousal support totally sets her off. She will not recognize that she has a problem with our son. He is a trigger for her. Her psychologist suggested she take a parenting class which she scoffed at. All she says is "I have to pay for my own things after I move out".  I will be applying for physical custody since he will be going to school this coming August. I, in my slight bitterness, feel as if she can cheat and destroy but keep her job then she can certainly pay for the destruction and havoc she's caused. I had to admit her to a psych hospital last week after she has resisted getting any help over the last couple of years, she won't take her meds bc they "make her fat", she doesn't take anything about her life seriously. I'm not sure if this is even reasonable.  

[livednlearned]

I'm sorry things are so awful right now, Concerns. These marriages can really take a toll.

Are you thinking that you and your wife will arrive at a mutual decision about spousal support? More often than not, members here have to accept the harsh reality that you will be asking for what you think is fair, and the disordered spouse will remain, well... .disordered.

If she makes more money than you, then by all means ask for spousal support. Typically, at least where I live, spousal support is what your spouse provides during the divorcing period. Alimony is what the court order assigns for a period of years. In my state, being married 10 years is sort of a magic time period where you are likely to pay or receive the most alimony. In my case, my ex made 4 times what I made and he paid me alimony for 5 years, half the span of our marriage.

Be aware, though, that many disordered spouses will either quit their jobs or take a lower-paying job to avoid paying high alimony. If that happens, they can go back to court and ask to have it readjusted.

[ForeverDad]

Be aware, though, that many disordered spouses will either quit their jobs or take a lower-paying job to avoid paying high alimony. If that happens, they can go back to court and ask to have it readjusted.

Purposely working below your income potential to avoid or reduce support has been known to backfire.  There was a case in CA where a doctor quit and started flipping burgers.  The court ruled he was purposely avoiding child support and imputed his child support at an income level of what he was capable of earning.  Play games and sometimes, too rarely, the person behaving poorly gets scrutinized.

[Concerns]

Well, she just flat out attacks me. She will state that support to us is just revenge or "me trying to f**k her over". Trying to convey to an unstable person their own instability and plead with them to consider the greater good is virtually impossible. Her counter argument is that she would be unable to really care for our son as a result of the support hence it would not be good for him either in the long run. I feel she is partially right but I'm not really convinced her being a major presence in his life is that good for him either. I'm stuck. Basically. It really feels impossible unless I win the lottery that they don't even have here... . 

[ForeverDad]

She, like many with BPD or other acting-out PDs, is a master at Disinformation and Discouragement.  You will never succeed if you listen to her version of reality.  So... .Stop Believing Her!

Rather, get some legal consultations with family law attorneys.  No, not the form filers and hand holders.  You need to consult with experienced, perhaps hard nosed, problem solving lawyers.  Tell them up front yours is a high conflict case, that appeasing and finding a middle ground are virtually impossible. 

Note that many of our cases do actually settle but seldom early in a case.  (My settlement was mere minutes before our scheduled all-day Trial about 20 months into my divorce process.)  Early in the case the stbEx is still too entitled, demanding and controlling.  Later, toward the end of the case, when the reality of a judge not bending to stbEx's demands is looming, maybe a less unfair settlement can be reached.

Strangely, most courts start with a temp order and then mediation.  Although mediation works with reasonably normal parents mediation almost never works in high conflict cases, the stbEx is still too entitled and unreasonable.  Know that in advance.  Remember, mediation doesn't have to succeed, you only have to try.  If it fails, as it often does, just move on to the next step in the divorce process.

Strange as it must sound, one of your best leverages once divorce has been filed is "If you don't agree to what I consider is equitable, then we'll have the judge decide [between your crumbs and my reasonable solution]."  Okay, maybe not those words, they may trigger her, but you get the idea.  Your Leverage is the court.  It may be less than fair but almost always it is better than what the stbEx demands.  Of course, a decent outcome requires you to stand up for yourself and for your children and that you have an assertive, proactive, problem-solving lawyer.  Understand too that courts and lawyers generally prefer settlements.  Your job is to not settle for lousy terms.  If she refuses to negotiate somewhat fairly then court is your answer.

Remember the old story about the carrot and stick?  Court is your stick.  Court may not like either of you, you may get the impression it doesn't even care, but it has a framework of policies, procedures, regulations and standard calculations that will blunt some of the Ex's entitled demands and ultimatums.  Court may not be fair to you, being of the male gender and a father, but it will be less unfair than your Ex.

[livednlearned]

Well, she just flat out attacks me. She will state that support to us is just revenge or "me trying to f**k her over". Trying to convey to an unstable person their own instability and plead with them to consider the greater good is virtually impossible. Her counter argument is that she would be unable to really care for our son as a result of the support hence it would not be good for him either in the long run. I feel she is partially right but I'm not really convinced her being a major presence in his life is that good for him either. I'm stuck. Basically. It really feels impossible unless I win the lottery that they don't even have here... . 

It's ultimately not her decision.

She can try to work with you, and mediators if you go that route. Or lawyers if it comes to that (and if often does).

The dynamic here is that she knows you have weak boundaries and is rolling over them. The reality is that courts will try to enforce something reasonable if the parties cannot do it on their own.